# 3 training issues.... Help!



## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

I'll try and keep this brief (famous last words!) can anyone offer any input on 3 issues I'm having with Tilly?

1. When people come round who she doesn't knew well, she barks and barks at them, tail wagging for a good 3 or 4 minutes. I am thinking maybe get the tennis ball (her absolute fave, even more than stones!) every time the door bell goes as a positive association and distraction...?

2. If another dog is near, she doesn't give 2 hoots, doesn't even want to bum sniff. If they come galloping over to say hello she will stand still, tail up in the air, curl her lip and then have a growly snap. (This led to an 'incident' at the park, I'll add details below so you can skip it!)

3. At our old house, she rarely peed in the garden, she saved it for walks. At the new house, she loves to pee in the garden.... It's ruining my brand new lawn!! 

Do you think it's worth getting a trainer in, particularly for issue 2? Or just accept that she doesn't like interacting with other dogs?


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Incident at the park....

My other half took Tilly to the park, they were walking down one side, Tilly minding her own business, looking for a naughty leaf to capture and a collie came charging over from the other side of the park straight over to her face. As usual in this situation, she stood still, tail up in the air and snapped at him to tell him to go away, which he did.

Then his owner came over. If it had been me with Tilly she would have got a much different response - James is much quieter and more polite! 

"Oh... So she hasn't been socialised then?!" The lady said "well aren't you going to tell her off.?! My dog is deaf you know, she's just attacked a deaf dog." (The fact that her dog is deaf is completely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned!) 

So is Tilly at fault for snapping? Or should her dog have read Tilly's body language better and not come galloping across? I hate when she snaps at other dogs, I know she shouldn't and as she's only 2, I'm worried it will only get worse.

In terms of socialisation, she went to puppy training from 14 weeks to 7 months, stayed with cockerpoo61 and their 4 dogs at 7 months old for a week and often played with dogs on her walks. It all changed around her first birthday.

Thoughts??


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Number 1 - yep tennis ball sounds like an excellent solution 

Number 3 - no idea - apart from maybe set her up an area for peeing and try to go back to house training basics to teach her to go in that area? Lawn - I dimly remember having one once  watering over pee to dilute can help to avoid patches too

Number 2 - I would say Tilly was certainly giving out cues she did not want to say hello and snapped as the other dog was not reading them and in her face. I agree with you - irrelevant that the dog is deaf - it is still rude in its greetings.

Does she have any dogs she does interact with these days? It sounds like she is quite worried by the encounters and it would be good to increase her confidence. She needs to be around other dogs in controlled situations so they can not approach her and she gets lots of positive fun and treats when she is around them to build some positive associations with other dogs. I used training classes for this with one of my former dogs, they were outdoor and I could keep plenty of space between us and other dogs until he started to relax and could be closer to them.

Molly is the confident one of my pair  happy to meet and greet practically anything - and tell them off if they push their luck and won't leaver HER MUM alone  Chance is much less confident and will grumble if dogs hassle her too much


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

She doesn't interact with any dogs, any that come over she growls and snaps at.

We can walk within a meter of another dog and if they ignore her, she ignores them. Same if she is on lead - we can walk right past another dog and she doesn't bark or growl or anything, but if they come up to her face she growls and snaps. 

If a dog wants to sniff her bum, she is okay with it, and she might sniff back - this happens less than once a week. 9 times out of 10 it's a growl and snap - I now go to places where there are unlikely to be dogs as I get really anxious about it happening which isn't good, I know - I'm avoiding the problem and she probably picks up on my anxiety!


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Do you think it would be worth seeing a trainer? Going to a class? Are there classes where we could work on this sort of thing? X


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

I'll give you my advice / opinion..... (For what it's worth)
1. Tilly is just alerting and been protective of her family, especially now you have a new addition, the ball technique may work, certainly worth trying.
Or what about the compressed air canisters? - may upset Henry though.
2. Is Tilly on the lead when she snaps? I now R&R can be a bit snappy at other dogs if they are on the lead and feel a dog invades their space.
We had a similar experience with a dog owner (who claimed to be a trainer) and shouted and whipped her lead at Ralph to scare him, because Ralph had chased her rather timid lurcher dog - it ran so Ralph chased it!!  With an owner with that kind of behaviour I'm not surprised her dog was timid - anyhow we exchanged words!! 
3. Have you tried the mineral rocks in Tilly's water? They have mixed reviews and a certain degree of success, maybe Tilly is marking the lawn? I know ruby can squat when we are out to pee and hardly pees at all.
Read the rock reviews on amazon.
X


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Try the yellow ribbon, and if a dog approaches Tilly, just explain to the owner that Tilly isn't too sociable, the other owner should call their dog back & you and Tilly should be able to continue on your walk, I don't think it's fair for Tilly to miss out,
Has she always been a bit unsociable or more so since Henry arrived?


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Since about a year old, so about a year and a half. 

It's on lead and off lead. I often call over "she's a bit nervous of other dogs!" To the owner, but sometimes their dog is already on it's away over or just doesn't have very good recall! Part of me thinks that other dogs should just know to ignore her and read her cues, but I know that this isn't realistic.

My sister is planning on getting a dog in the next year and I really want Tilly to be able to get along with another dog - or at least be civil!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Yellow ribbon is a good idea and whilst not everyone knows what it is the info is gradually spreading. 

I really would not use an air cannister with her - they act to interrupt by startling and far more positive ways to deal with it.

How far are you from Hinckley? I do know a really good trainer who might be worth getting an opinion from. I suspect although she is ignoring dogs up close she is far from happy about it and that is what you would need to work on before you even get to the greeting stage.


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

15 minutes from hinckley - it's where I grew up! That's interesting about the ignoring - I always assumed because she was going about her business she was happy xx


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

I think her barking is a confidence issue as well - she's certainly not a dominant, over confident dog.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Excellent if Hinckley is do-able - I can thoroughly recommend Marie Miller http://www.pawsnlearn.com/

She has a little rescue cockapoo herself (who may be as mad as a box of frogs ) and is a really nice trainer who would be able to guide you and help you read Tilly and build her confidence.


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

2ndhandgal said:


> Excellent if Hinckley is do-able - I can thoroughly recommend Marie Miller http://www.pawsnlearn.com/
> 
> She has a little rescue cockapoo herself (who may be as mad as a box of frogs ) and is a really nice trainer who would be able to guide you and help you read Tilly and build her confidence.


Thank you! I shall certainly give her a call. Will keep you posted xx


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

If you do see her tell her Molly ratbag sent you her way


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Glad you've got a plan in place! They are funny little thinking dogs and I think that they each have an 'ism' or two! But there good points are far greater!
When visitors arrive I would ask them to completely ignore Tilly, not make eye contact or anything - hopefully her ball will be enough to make her feel happy. Have you tried having a few treats in your pocket that you can drop on the floor near her (easy to do at the moment but not so much once master Henry is crawling around too!) - without calling her or anything, hopefully she'll scoff them up and look to you for more. If she will not eat it is another indicator that she is finding the whole situation quite stressful.
Tilly needs some relaxed doggy friends to walk with. Not dogs who are going to bother her - but dogs who enjoy being out and about and are generally unfazed by life.
Strangely one of our most stressed out members at Dodgy Dogs (a rescue from Portugal) who lunges and makes a horrendous noise at club if other dogs get too close to him or even just look at him, really enjoys walking off lead in a pack - in this situation he is quite submissive (Kiki is terrified of him at club, but outside he always submits to her, which makes us laugh because nobody ever submits to Kiki!!!) I'm sure Tilly's behavior is because she is unsure and feels threatened. When Kiki feels unsure she humps Dot 
I think it is Nancy who keeps a watering can full of dilute miracle gro (or equivalent) to wash in piddles on the lawn...
Kiki's breeder swore by Dog Rocks, but I've heard mixed reviews - if you try them let us know how you get on. Personally I think you should just be grateful that Tilly is not digging holes all over your new lawn!


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

I have just had a nice long chat on the phone with the trainer 2ndhand recommended, it was really helpful.

She, too, suggested going on walks with other nice dogs, but said that ultimately Tilly is completely within her rights to tell an uninvited dog to 'bugger off' (her words not mine!!) and that we seem to be in a society that expects every dog to want to be best friends with every other dog, when actually some just aren't interested! 

Tilly never seeks out the other dog, and doesn't go out of her way to have a go, and is probably one of those dogs who just doesn't really want to play! I will certainly try and arrange some walks with nice calm dogs.

I have tried treats, Marzi, but Tilly is not very food motivated. Just before our walk today, I accidentally spilled a whole bag of treats on the floor, Tilly just looked at me, and then looked at the open cupboard because that's where her balls are kept!! She carried on staring at the cupboard as I crawled around picking the treats up with a 19lb baby strapped to me.

Ahh their little quirks  xxx


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Glad she has been helpful - she is lovely 

Thinking about it I find we meet different types of owner depending on where we walk. I much prefer over the fields where the majority of the dogs are well socialised with sensible owners and we just pass them with dogs having either a sniff or ignoring each other and everyone respecting everyone else which sounds like it would be fine for Tilly. The park on the other hand everyone seems to take it as their dogs right to "play" with mine whether mine wish to be played with or not  Chance will quite often tell these to bugger off 

Happy to try a walk if you want - not sure mine are the best in the world for what you need though  they do generally pretty much just do their own thing - hunt in Mollys case and chase balls in Chances


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I completely agree with the trainer, if a dog can't read dog he deserves a bugger off. In a way it is like with people. Almost all kids will want to engage with a same size child if that child smiled at them and invited them to play. But how many adults in the park would like to have their reading of the paper or stroll interupted like that? How many people practicing their putting would want someone else to grab their club? 

Do you always walk in the same park? I think it is important to mix it up and visit new ones often, as some dogs can start to feel quite territorial. The park pee-mails might be telling her to be wary of a gang of vicious thugs who own the place. She might be on heightened alert because of that. I've noticed with Rufus that the bigger the space the easier it is on all the dogs.


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

I rarely take her to the park to be honest, because of the reasons mentioned by 2ndhand, we tend to go for footpaths and fields.

I have a friend with a cockapoo - he likes to play with other dogs who like to play but is also quite submissive, I might drop his mum a text! 

Thanks so much for your help - I feel less like a bad dog owner now! I would still like her to be a little more tolerant, but I'm happy to accept that she just isn't playful with other dogs and that perhaps if some dogs had better recall and reading skills, 90% of these situations wouldn't happen anyway! Xx


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Just thinking a bit more about this and I think the dog walkers who have not walked their dogs in the winter are suddenly appearing too - although we usually have no problem at all over the fields we met a very pushy goldie who Chance did tell to get lost after it repeatedly try to bounce over both of them and a pair labradors one of whom was miles from its owner and who was also being a pest! 

You are possibly noticing it more at the moment as the "he is only playing" brigade appear 

Hope you can have some successful walks with your friend


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Great advice as usual. I would also just add to the visitor issue. As well as using the ball as positive association I would ask every guest to ignore the dog, no eye contact, speaking or trying to make friends. She should settle much quicker and you will probably find she will mooch over for a sniff when the pressures off and everything is calm.
I also wouldn't worry too much about her grumpiness with rude dogs. That's their problem not yours. Sounds a bit harsh but that's how I read it


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