# Introduction



## cplove

Hello,

I was delighted to find this amazing forum while researching Cockapoos. I have already found a load of useful information here, but as of now we don't have a Cockapoo yet. We are still searching for the "perfect" puppy for our family and I confess that buying a Labrador would have been much easier in terms of finding a reliable breeder close to us (Cambridgeshire) than Cockapoos. But, the adorable Cockapoos have stolen the hearts of the family and so we search.

Expect questions from this new user of the forums.


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## kendal

hey welcome, 

so what are you after American/English(show or working) x Mini/Toy poodle 
what generation
girl or boy 
do you have a colour in mind 
do you have any alergys than mean you need to becarful about coat choice to reduce the chance of reaction, as some people do react to ckcapoos and some cockapoos do shed a little.


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## cplove

Hi, Kendal and thanks! The "ideal" puppy would be F1, working English Cocker X Miniature Poodle. We like males as well as females. We are flexible on colour as well. We do not have any animal allergies, but since we have small children we prefer a non-shedding dog just to be safe (who knows whether they develop one later on. We have a cat and we are all fine).

None of the above is a must! In my experience, once you fall in love with a puppy, then that's it. I think the character and health are the most important things. I saw some puppies yesterday and it was only after I left the breeder's place that I realised that most likely I had just visited the front of a covered up puppy mill. We are trying to be as careful as we can. We like to search a bit longer, pay a bit more if necessary, just to make sure that we get the right puppy.


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## Sezra

Hi and welcome!

It is a big task searching for a Cockapoo puppy but it is worth the wait! There is lots of fabulous advice on this forum. Feel free to have a peek at our 'Finding a breeder' guide on the club site http://www.cockapoo-owners-club.org.uk/cockapoo_finding_a_breeder.html or JoJos puppy buying guide; http://www.mydogslife.co.uk/category/cockapoos/puppy-buying-guide/

Look forward to hearing how your search goes.


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## Laura(L)Izzie

Hello & welcome! 
My girls are both crossed with show cockers so i'm afraid I cannot recommend a breeder, but I hope you find your perfect puppy really soon! I bet you're really excited 
I'm sure the two links that Sarah has posted will help you a lot before & after getting your cockapoo 
& feel free to ask for any advice you need, there is always someone with knowledge


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## JR1

Hi,

I only joined the Orem a few days ago and have found it so welcoming and helpful!,

We picked up Poppy from an amazing lady. Poppy's mum is a working cocker and her dad a miniature poodle. The breeder is lovely and its not at all a puppy mill. She is based in Shropshire if you are interested! Happy to send you her details....

Jane.


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## cplove

Thank you all for your warm welcome messages and the information.

@Jane: I would be interested in the breeder's info, thank you.

After reading some posts and threads on this forum, we are now having second thoughts regarding Cockapoos because of the rage syndrome issue. We want to be very careful because we have children, and after having talked to another breeder today, I am more than convinced that some just don't know what they are doing. I know that no consensus exists as what RS exactly is, but that should not mean that the problem can just be ignored. I was, however, positively surprised by the position taken by JD.

Well, the search continues, now accompanied with a lot of extra reading.


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## Laura(L)Izzie

Some people believe the 'cocker rage' a myth 
I don't think there is any proof that show cockers can be more aggressive than others.
So don't base your breed entirely on this, if you find a breeder with breeding dogs with good temperments then I wouldn't worry, just don't base a puppy on one issue that doens't have solid proof. :/


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## cplove

You are right, Laura. One should not base the decision on a controversial issue. However, when small children are involved one should be careful. I got frustrated yesterday after hitting a dead end with one breeder, but have now had positive experience with others. Let's see. The search continues.


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## Laura(L)Izzie

I understand you have small children & you obviously need to consider that, of course! The children come first, I just haven't met anyone on here with cockapoos crossed with show cockers who have had any problems. All puppies nip obviously, you have to try & discourage that in any way you can, but other than that you should be absolutely fine with either cross  It's whichever you prefer at the end of the day 
There will always be breeders out there that you like & dislike so don't get too frustrated, jut keep an eye out for the 'right' one & you will be very happy when your puppy finally comes home  & so will your kids!


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## Sezra

Hi. My Cockapoo is half show cocker, I have young children and I childmind. She is the most laid back soppy thing I have come across. When I researched I spoke to breeders of Cockapoos and Cocker Spaniels and the general feeling was that it was not seen these days. It was also thought not just to be related to Cockers but an issue that any dog could experience.  For my future second Cockapoo I would not rule out either.  


http://www.doglistener.co.uk/aggression/cocker_rage.shtml

http://thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/rage_syndrome.htm

I think a balanced view needs to be taken and the most important thing is to consider the temperament of the parent dogs, regardless of whether from a show or working background.

Good luck with your search!


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## M&M's mummy

cplove said:


> Thank you all for your warm welcome messages and the information.
> 
> @Jane: I would be interested in the breeder's info, thank you.
> 
> After reading some posts and threads on this forum, we are now having second thoughts regarding Cockapoos because of the rage syndrome issue. We want to be very careful because we have children, and after having talked to another breeder today, I am more than convinced that some just don't know what they are doing. I know that no consensus exists as what RS exactly is, but that should not mean that the problem can just be ignored. I was, however, positively surprised by the position taken by JD.
> 
> Well, the search continues, now accompanied with a lot of extra reading.


Hello CPlove

What has been the main problem you have been finding with the breeders you have contacted?

What was the position taken by JD that you were positively surprised about?


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## wellerfeller

Hi I hope you have some luck finding a decent breeder. I too am puzzled as to what breeders have said about cocker rage syndrome???
I too was warned of this by people when we said we wanted a cockapoo but people always have bad stories when you tell them you are interested in something, especially dog breeds....so we just made our own minds up. Although I am obviously aware of the so called condition in cockers, I haven't yet heard of it in cockapoos......has anyone else?
I think any badly bred dog can have aggression issues, what ever the breed, so providing you find a good breeder I would feel confident you will get a lovely family dog. We have young children and have had no problems what so ever. I would never trust any dog with young children 100% and never leave them unattented but this is just common sense and I am sure you will already know that 
Good luck with your search, it can take a long time to find what you want.


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## cplove

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all your useful feedback.



M&M's mummy said:


> Hello CPlove
> What has been the main problem you have been finding with the breeders you have contacted?
> What was the position taken by JD that you were positively surprised about?


My feeling is that the Cockapoo is a popular dog these days. This seems to attract backyard breeders. In one case, I was shown only half of the litter and the mother separately. And I had to listen to a long story explaining why the puppies were in a utility room and not in the house. After I rejected the puppies I was offered Labradoodle puppies which I could have visited the next day, although they were supposedly owned by the same couple. Needless to say that I walked away.

Another breeder just didn't seem to be willing to acknowledge a concerned parent's question about the syndrome. The same breeder's story about the parents of the puppy they had available was a bit difficult to follow.

JD has shown a lot of concern on these forums, guiding people who have been discussing "aggressive" behaviour of their Cockapoos. It seemed to me he was concerned about behaviour which could possibly be linked to RD.



wellerfeller said:


> Hi I hope you have some luck finding a decent breeder. I too am puzzled as to what breeders have said about cocker rage syndrome???
> I too was warned of this by people when we said we wanted a cockapoo but people always have bad stories when you tell them you are interested in something, especially dog breeds....so we just made our own minds up. Although I am obviously aware of the so called condition in cockers, I haven't yet heard of it in cockapoos......has anyone else?
> (...)
> Good luck with your search, it can take a long time to find what you want.


I talked to one breeder today, who acknowledged that she had known two Cockapoos with RD. Both had been put to sleep, one was her own and one belonged to a friend. She does not breed Cockapoos anymore due to this experience.

Now, I don't know what to believe and what not. But it is my job to be as careful as possible. And that's why I am here on these forums, where people are friendly and willing to help.

I should have added that I am pleased to hear that people are so confident about their Cockapoos around children. The Cocker Spaniels I have met, have always been super friendly and lovely.


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## wellerfeller

cplove said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Thanks for all your useful feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> My feeling is that the Cockapoo is a popular dog these days. This seems to attract backyard breeders. In one case, I was shown only half of the litter and the mother separately. And I had to listen to a long story explaining why the puppies were in a utility room and not in the house. After I rejected the puppies I was offered Labradoodle puppies which I could have visited the next day, although they were supposedly owned by the same couple. Needless to say that I walked away.
> 
> Another breeder just didn't seem to be willing to acknowledge a concerned parent's question about the syndrome. The same breeder's story about the parents of the puppy they had available was a bit difficult to follow.
> 
> JD has shown a lot of concern on these forums, guiding people who have been discussing "aggressive" behaviour of their Cockapoos. It seemed to me he was concerned about behaviour which could possibly be linked to RD.
> 
> 
> 
> I talked to one breeder today, who acknowledged that she had known two Cockapoos with RD. Both had been put to sleep, one was her own and one belonged to a friend. She does not breed Cockapoos anymore due to this experience.
> 
> Now, I don't know what to believe and what not. But it is my job to be as careful as possible. And that's why I am here on these forums, where people are friendly and willing to help.
> 
> I should have added that I am pleased to hear that people are so confident about their Cockapoos around children. The Cocker Spaniels I have met, have always been super friendly and lovely.


I have looked and can't find the threads you talk of, about advice and/or cocker rage. I would love to have a read, what did you put in search to find them?


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## wellerfeller

I have found some of the threads and can understand your concerns but have a good read on the internet. Rage syndrome affects many breeds of dogs but is also very rare.
Cocker's get slapped with this label very quickley by vets, trainers and owners alike but is infact hard to diagnose.
Aggression can be present for many many different reasons and you need an expert in dog behaviour to help diagnose RS. 
I myself have unfortunately seen dogs fight and they can get a glazed look in their eyes and be totally unresponsive to anything but their intentions at that time but 10 mins later they can be laid licking and grooming each other as if nothing happend. If this happens with cockers they are labelled as having rage. 
Aggression is bad in any dog don't get me wrong but as I said before providing you find a good breeder, that uses studs and bitches of sound temperament and health then I wouldn't be too worried. 
Good luck


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## cplove

I am glad you found the threads, Karen! I came across those by chance and then cross references. 

Anyhow, I have met Cockers and they have always been very very friendly and I know Poodles by having lived with one years ago. It should be a fab mix, and I am really thankful for the feedback and advice received here. I fully agree that aggression must be a more general problem. But I do wonder why the Cockers take the beating? Have there been any particular cases or what could be the reason for ascribing RS to them? Is it like the Staffies? Many factors not directly related to the breed come together, but it is the breed that has to take the blame?


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## M&M's mummy

Cocker rage was initially aimed at the golden coloured male cockers but evidence now suggests as Wellerfeller has said rage applies to many breeds in various disguises.

I have not heard of any cockapoos suffering from RS- so I would think the % would be very very small otherwise it would be more talked about in the cockapoo circles and forums and by breeders.

Funnily enough I have over the last couple of years done many debates with people who are anti-crossbreeding and cockapoos but RS in cockapoos hasn't been mentioned before although many other assumptions have.

For you CP love think you will have to weigh up the risks for your own circumstances but would be very doubtful that your queries to RS in cockapoos can be answered with such clarity as many are doubtful that such a syndrome exists.


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## Sezra

It appears that although other breeds can experience issues there was media sensationalism during the 80's by the Daily Mirror that focussed on Cocker Spaniels. There has been no studies for 10 years and this is something relates to any dog NOT just Cocker Spaniels.

I agree that everyone should carefully consider the back ground to their dogs however I feel that to label a whole group of dogs 'dangerous' is a dangerous claim in itself without having proper statistics, basically you are making an assumption based on rumour and hearsay. 

Have you also considered that alot of the show and working lines are mixed? 

I do think it is like the Staffies but whereas the problem with staffies and their reputation is current the Cocker spaniel issue was publicised 20 years ago! It would be a shame if it was sensationalised again without any true basis.

Maybe you should also consider the energy levels of the working cocker? Although a breeder may tell you that they are not high energy there are often people on Cocker forums who have not understood the needs of a working cocker as like the springer, they can be high energy.

In my humble opinion it is all about balance. You will get lazy working dogs and high energy show dogs. Before considering buying a puppy you need to look at the parents temperament, consider health checks, how the puppies are raised etc etc. There are alot of breeders out there who are only in it for the money and it may take you a long time to find a breeder you are happy with and even then you may have to wait for the litter.


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## cplove

Good points, everyone! Thank you.

Re working lines: You are right about their energy levels. But none of the requirements mentioned in my first post are a must, rather a general guideline. We will get the puppy that we feel right about and this includes breed, breeder, parents, health and all the other issues frequently mentioned in books forums and so on. A healthy puppy, and that includes physical as well as mental/emotional health, is our first priority. All that said, we are a fairly active family and believe that we can offer a suitable home to an energetic dog. The dog's day, the days after its first year, will start with 30 minutes of cycling and we can offer extended walks and swims over the weekends.

And again, I understand that the differences between show and working lines are not that clear cut. So far, we have not eliminated breeders because they breed from show lines.


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## Rufini

The best advise I can give is that if you do not like the breeder don't go with them. There are certainly a lot of cockapoo breeders out there, many members here had to travel a fair distance to get their dogs from breeders they trust (we travelled from Manchester to north Lincolnshire) so you shouldn't only look for breeders nearby if you truely want a cockapoo.
Regarding the rage - I believe that a lot of dog can potentially exhibit this, esspecially those bred for their aggression. It's not just about the breed though, it's about training. When owning a dog a lot of effort must go into training, cockapoos can get bored easily so you have to keep them stimulated both mentally (the poodle side) and physically (cocker spaniel side). In addition there is the matter of castration with males, if you don't have them done there is a small chance of aggression stemming from that.

I am in no shape or form an expert in this as I've only been a cockapoo owner for 10 weeks! There are many people here with huge experience of both owning and breeding cockapoos. They would be the best people to talk to when it comes down to the questions you have


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## Sezra

carmellabanker said:


> hey im new user
> 
> Internet marketing


Hi Carmella and welcome!

Why not start a thread and tell us about yourself and your Cockapoo (s), we would love to hear from you.


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## wellerfeller

Sezra said:


> Hi Carmella and welcome!
> 
> Why not start a thread and tell us about yourself and your Cockapoo (s), we would love to hear from you.


Oops, I reported as spam


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## Sezra

wellerfeller said:


> Oops, I reported as spam


Probably is!


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## Jedicrazy

Hello CPlove, just wanted to share that I have two young kids (age 7 and 4) and my DS has special needs so I thought very long and hard about what breed to go for. I came across the whole Rage Syndrome thing in my research and I was wary but it did not put me off. It helped me make sure I picked a breeder where I could meet and spend time with the parent dogs. 

Our cockapoo is very good and extremely tolerant of my children. I might add though that it will be your responsibility to train the children how to behave with the dog. No dog can be expected to be an angel if a child is hurting him/her, accidentally or deliberately. Every animal has their own pain tolerance level!

I found the first few puppy months very challenging because I was always telling either the kids or the dog off! I had to separate them etc. However once the puppy grows and learns it's place and the initial "we got a puppy" excitement and "I need to grab him every time I see him" thing wears off it does improve a lot! He is the best family dog I could have asked for and more.


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## cplove

Thanks for sharing your experience, Jedicrazy! I appreciate it. Like you, we expect the first few weeks/months to be challenging for everyone, but are confident that we can master them. Both of my children are and have been good with our cat (overall that is), so I hope that they will be kind to the puppy as well.

I am glad to report that we have identified two puppies that we hope to visit soon. One is a F1b, yellowish in colour and the other is a black F1. Of both the father is Optigen PRA clear.

Would experienced people say that a F1b, bred back to a Poodle would or should shed less?


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## MillieDog

Hi
Just read this thread through and concerns. I don't really have much to add. But from my own personal experience, I was looking for a dog that was easy to train and not wilful.

I came across Sylml in Lincolnshire, she breeds showcocker x poodles and the one thing that struck me on their web site was the phrase saying they bred for temperament as most cockapoos are going into family homes. http://www.pinetreecockapoo.co.uk/

Millie has been ridiculously laid back as a puppy and I've had many comments from people who've met her. She is very patient when I'm working (I work from home) and doesn't try to destroy the house. She has bags of energy when we go for walks.


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## Kerry24

Hi and welcome to the forum,

I would echo what the others have said about the importance of having a good gut feeling with the breeder. My puppy (show x mini) came from a hobby breeder, who owned both parents. We got to spend time with the parents,mtogether with the pups, and so could see their temperaments first hand. In our case both mum and dad were amazingly calm, chilled out and friendly dogs, and so it gave us confidence that their offspring would have good temperaments. I also gained confidence from the health checks the breeder had undertaken.

Pareto is such a chilled out chap, and the best thing we did.... and so good with my two boys (aged 5 & 7). Like all puppies he is a bit chewy from time to time, but training has helped immensely. Also, I think like all animals you have to apply common sense with interactions around children.... I certainly have no concerns.

Hope this helps, and tht find your perfect pup,

Kx


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## Laura(L)Izzie

cplove said:


> Would experienced people say that a F1b, bred back to a Poodle would or should shed less?


It 'should' mean that they will shed less, although you can never fully guarantee, it should mean the the coat will be curlier, which generally means the coat will shed less than a straighter coat. Hop eyou find 'your' pup


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## Kerry24

MillieDog said:


> Millie has been ridiculously laid back as a puppy and I've had many comments from people who've met her. She is very patient when I'm working (I work from home) and doesn't try to destroy the house. She has bags of energy when we go for walks.


Sounds just like Pareto! He's so good when I work from home, and just chills out on the rug by my feet until I have time to play 

Kx


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## cplove

MillieDog said:


> Hi
> Just read this thread through and concerns. I don't really have much to add. But from my own personal experience, I was looking for a dog that was easy to train and not wilful.
> 
> I came across Sylml in Lincolnshire, she breeds showcocker x poodles and the one thing that struck me on their web site was the phrase saying they bred for temperament as most cockapoos are going into family homes. http://www.pinetreecockapoo.co.uk/
> 
> Millie has been ridiculously laid back as a puppy and I've had many comments from people who've met her. She is very patient when I'm working (I work from home) and doesn't try to destroy the house. She has bags of energy when we go for walks.


Is your Millie from Sylml?


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## cplove

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and support. You are a helpful bunch and I am so glad that we stuck with the Cockapoo. Yes, we now have a puppy at home whose picture I have posted in the pictures forum. She is such a brilliant puppy.


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## Laura(L)Izzie

I already commented on your thread  But glad you found your pup! you must be very pleased  Enjoy her!


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## sealush

*Experience with Rage Syndrome*

I just had to have my 3 year old cockapoo put down due what I believe was rage syndrome. She was the cutest and sweetest thing in the world and it broke my heart. She bit a total of 5 times before we made the decision. With each bite it become worse and we knew the next time someone could really get hurt. The worse bite she caused was luckily just to me right in the face and lip with no warning as I went to kiss her goodbye like I have for the past 3 years. No warning, no growl. Happened so fast..

She would be her sweet loving self and then all of a sudden had the glaze over eyes and stare downs with us. Blank scary eyes like she didn't even know who we were. As much as I love the breed and the fun side of them I could never get another one. Living in fear of another attack happening is just to scary and it's so heart breaking when you can't trust your own dog. It's been a very hard few days and I don't wish that upon anyone else. 






wellerfeller said:


> Hi I hope you have some luck finding a decent breeder. I too am puzzled as to what breeders have said about cocker rage syndrome???
> I too was warned of this by people when we said we wanted a cockapoo but people always have bad stories when you tell them you are interested in something, especially dog breeds....so we just made our own minds up. Although I am obviously aware of the so called condition in cockers, I haven't yet heard of it in cockapoos......has anyone else?
> I think any badly bred dog can have aggression issues, what ever the breed, so providing you find a good breeder I would feel confident you will get a lovely family dog. We have young children and have had no problems what so ever. I would never trust any dog with young children 100% and never leave them unattented but this is just common sense and I am sure you will already know that
> Good luck with your search, it can take a long time to find what you want.


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## fairlie

So sorry for this tragic outcome Sealush, it must have been very hard to make that decision. Thankfully that type of aggression is very, very rare and unfortunately it is not limited to spaniels or it would have been easy to eradicate. I like to hope that with proper breeding and proper training, combined with people smart enough to euthanize or at the very least neuter aggressive dogs it will remain a rarity.


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