# Some help with training needed



## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

So, the crocapoo thing doesn't bother me all that much, I just keep my hands away from him and give him a toy to chew instead. 
Having said that, training is way more than I can handle because of the crocapoo. The second he knows the treats are around he starts going crazy. Jaws flapping like mad, leaping for my hand snapping away.
I'm trying to teach sit, and the way I normally teach sit is to take the treat and hold it just out of reach and move it just above their head so they raise their head and their butt hits the floor. 
Well, as you can imagine this doesn't work too well with Ringo Snapping Jaws, so I'm thinking I need to first teach him how to take a treat nicely, but have no idea how to go about doing that. Help


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Make him sit and wait. Hold the treat up at your face and if he makes eye contact praise him generously. Keep asking him to wait, lower the treat slowly, if he moves or jumps at all start again. If you can get the treat in front of his nose without him snapping use wait command and hold it there. When your happy tell him to take it, say ok or a release command that you use. Give him the treat. Work on this first then work on making him take the treat gently by removing it from in front of him if he gets too greedy and snaps. Repeat until he gets it right and offer lots of praise. Do not let him have the treat until he has pleased you! 

That's very basic. YouTube has great training aids. Google it. Good luck.


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

when you say make him sit and wait, do you mean hold him place? Because that would be the only way I can see that happening.
thanks for the tip, and I will definitely google it too.


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Maybe take it one step back. Hold the treat in your fist and you stand or sit still, waiting for him to do the same. I think you need to teach him patience first.

If Millie is too excited for a treat now, I just pause and stand still for a second and she immediately knows she has to do the same. She will sit and look all alert, saying look at me I'm being good.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Yes as Julie said take a step back.. Back to basics with sit and be patient. Good idea to practice training when hungry so that he will focus on the food.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Try to teach 'leave' - but it sounds as if you will have to have quick reactions! hold a treat in your open hand, when he goes to grab it quickly close your fist - don't say anything at this stage, keep doing this until hopefully he will hesitate - even for a second then pick it up with the other hand and give it to him, you can start saying 'leave' when he is hesitating (doing the action you are naming), he should learn that he will get the treat when he waits rather than trying to snatch it, hopefully he will then have learnt a little patience and you can teach the sit. Another thing I learnt in puppy class (which actually maybe easier to start with) was to firmly hold a treat between thumb and finger - again hold it until they look away from it then say take it and give it to them - you can teach leave it and take it that way and try it with his dinner when he seems to be getting it. good luck.


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## barrett (Sep 28, 2010)

We had this with bobbie. The dog trainer taught us the following:
Offer the treat as you are doing but keep it within your closed hand rather than in the tips of your fingers. Offer it to her and eat time she nibbles lift you hand up out of reach. When you offer it bear her in a closed hand and she doesn't nibble then give it to her as a reward.

They quickly learn nibbling / snapping for the treat means they won't get the treat!


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

I saw one article that said close it in your fist and let him bite your hand, and when he stops say gentle and open your hand. I'm thinking, what, wait? I'm trying to teach him "no bite" and telling me to let him bite? That won't work. Next article! lol
I saw a video on youtube, and the dog was being taught to take a treat nicely, but his butt never left the ground no matter how far he had to stretch out his neck. I've noticed that about a lot of the youtube videos, they show these perfect dogs that already know what is being taught and they are so beyond reality I want to literally cry when it's time to try on my madcap pup.
thank you for the tips. I will keep trying.


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

RuthMill said:


> Yes as Julie said take a step back.. Back to basics with sit and be patient. Good idea to practice training when hungry so that he will focus on the food.


there is no back to basics here, he doesn't know the basics lol
do y'all teach sit with the treat method, or the push down the butt method? When I was growing up we pushed down the butt and said sit, it worked fine. Nowadays it's all about leading with the treat, which really did work well with the chihuahua I had several years back, but she was much calmer than madcap Ringo. He wants to snap and lead around and contort himself he's so ecstatic just to see the treat. Then if I take it to far away he just starts sniffing around on the floor like there's better stuff there to pay attention to. Very frustrating.
He's doing great in other areas though. Crate training is going well.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I wouldn't push the butt down, that's maybe just me though. I prefer for Lola to do something on command rather than be forced. So regarding back to basics what you probably do is try to work on sit with the treat and keep trying. A clicker may be useful to reinforce the training but I haven't used one so maybe someone else can help with clicker advice. What we found useful was using a hand signal along with the voice command, Lola will actually follow commands with just a hand signal and no voice command now. It's important to be consistent. It's as much about you training yourself as it is about training the dog. 

This is how we were taught:

1) get the dogs attention, hold a treat in one hand and use your other hand to make your chosen hand signal

2) when you are happy you have his attention move your hand holding the treat above his head and gently backwards. If he sits and only if quickly make the hand signal and say sit and treat, oh and praise.. Lots of praise. It's really important that you get this sequence right and don't delay. Treat as soon as possible after he does the right thing, so he knows what he's getting treated for.

3) keep repeating until he gets the idea.

Don't treat unless he sits. 
It is really important for you to get the sequence right as above. There will be many others with other advice and methods. I am not saying my method is the right one but Lola has responded very well and now she can dance and spin around and play dead etc etc... Good luck!


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

RuthMill said:


> I wouldn't push the butt down, that's maybe just me though. I prefer for Lola to do something on command rather than be forced. So regarding back to basics what you probably do is try to work on sit with the treat and keep trying. A clicker may be useful to reinforce the training but I haven't used one so maybe someone else can help with clicker advice. What we found useful was using a hand signal along with the voice command, Lola will actually follow commands with just a hand signal and no voice command now. It's important to be consistent. It's as much about you training yourself as it is about training the dog.
> 
> This is how we were taught:
> 
> ...


yes, see, that is what I was doing in theory, however in practice what was happening was;
step 1 hold treat in one hand.
step 2 watch helplessly as puppy tries to tie himself in knots getting to treat snapping at said treat being held in one hand.
so, there is never a point where I can move my hand above his head etc etc because he's become a wild thing the second he knows the treat is there. I thought that's what I had said in my original post, but anyway. 
I have been teaching him how to take the treat properly, using the tips provided in this thread, and he's come along quite well just after two sessions today, and I was able to properly start teaching sit.
I did google, and frankly found the tips here more helpful. Thank you everyone who posted.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I did read your post, so sorry if it sounded like I wasn't getting your point. I do understand all that you were saying and understand that he is hyper. Maybe look up some threads with clicker training and remove the food completely from your training until he gets a little more receptive to your commands. He is obviously very food orientated which will be a good thing in the long run but maybe this early training should be done without food and use praise as the treat +/ - clicker work. The other thing is... It's very early days and he will get it eventually!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Not sure if this link will work, its one of the better training video's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ipT5k1gaXhc


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

RuthMill said:


> I did read your post, so sorry if it sounded like I wasn't getting your point. I do understand all that you were saying and understand that he is hyper. Maybe look up some threads with clicker training and remove the food completely from your training until he gets a little more receptive to your commands. He is obviously very food orientated which will be a good thing in the long run but maybe this early training should be done without food and use praise as the treat +/ - clicker work. The other thing is... It's very early days and he will get it eventually!


I actually have a clicker which I bought before getting Ringo, I haven't had the courage to try it. I've never used one with any of my previous dogs, and I'm just not sure I have the coordination for it.
He has a blanket set up on the bed, and that is like his play area so he can be with me (my bed is the most comfortable spot in the house, what can I say lol) and I have been working on the gentle treat there rather than in the bathroom where I usually do his training. I think the close up training keeps him focused more, and he's definitely gotten much better. Also, I've realized what could be an actual problem. I get home from work just in time for the evening crazies. That makes it much more difficult to train. I didn't even know this was a poo trait until I read about it here the other day. I thought he just was really excitable lol
sorry for the long post. Thank you for the tips.


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

DB1 said:


> Not sure if this link will work, its one of the better training video's
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ipT5k1gaXhc


that was a good one. thank you.
Have you ever seen any by "kikopup" the woman is so competent it makes me feel very inadequate lol


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

so, as I said, I did work with the gentle treat taking, and he has improved immensely, although of course it can be hit or miss.
I looked at several clicker videos, and I'm just not sure. One thing is, I just can't see having a clicker on me at all times ready to go the instant I see wanted behavior. I actually did attempt it this morning, charging the clicker was I think semi successful, and I caught myself saying "yes!" as I clicked, when doing an actual training session, which of course is not what you want to do, although you can use "yes!" instead of the clicker, so maybe that will work better for me since I do carry a "yes!" with me at all times, ready to go the instant I see wanted behavior lol
I also discovered that clicker training is extremely treat heavy. so, I'm not sure what the point of the clicker is. "click, treat... click treat" why not just treat? It seems the click/treat never goes away, but maybe I am misinterpreting that. (I just googled "when to stop using clicker" and discovered that once the action is mastered, the clicker goes away so that is heartening)
I guess it is just a matter of figuring out what works with Ringo.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I have used clickers in the past, although not with Kiki. With Inzi I can just make a clickclick noise (bit like for a horse?) and it works just as well as having the clicker - Kiki responds to the noise by looking at me...
I also go 'beep beep' as my whistle impoersonation - that works too!

Be gentle and calm with Ringo - he will get it, he is just such a baby still.
I keep treats (dried kibble) in little pots in the kitchen, living room, study and in my pocket - always have treats handy, but not necessarily in your hands


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

The theory behind using a clicker is you can 'click' the exact moment you see the behaviour you want, then give the treat. Using a clicker is not forever. I haven't used a clicker for over a year now, but I know if I clicked now Millie would jump into alert action.

Read this article
http://www.clickertrain.com/getstarted.html

You can set clicker training time, say a few minutes a couple of times a day. To start with you click and give a treat (the size of half your small finger nail, not much). Do this a few times and quickly Ringo will associate the click with reward.

Are there any training classes near you that use clicker training? It really is easy if you're shown how easy it is and more importantly, how success it is.


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## Jayded (Apr 5, 2013)

MillieDog said:


> The theory behind using a clicker is you can 'click' the exact moment you see the behaviour you want, then give the treat. Using a clicker is not forever. I haven't used a clicker for over a year now, but I know if I clicked now Millie would jump into alert action.
> 
> Read this article
> http://www.clickertrain.com/getstarted.html
> ...


you know, I do remember reading that about the timing of the clicker now. I did see that it is just until the behavior is learned. 
surprisingly the petsmart in my town does clicker training, but not until the older class. I think I am over thinking things. I have this vision of following Ringo around with clicker and treats in hand frantically clicking and treating every time he does some desired action and studiously ignoring him when he is not. It's tiring just to think about.
thank you for the link.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I did some clicker training when Dudley was really young, I'm not sure I did it enough or consistently enough for him to work out that his behavior was getting the click then reward - the idea is they think 'now what did I do to make her click' and they do the behavior again, Dudley did get it that the clicker sound meant he was getting a treat though, I found it quite good on off lead walks if he was ahead and looked round I clicked and said wait and then he got his treat. Still have mine and still think I should try again sometime....


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Jayded said:


> you know, I do remember reading that about the timing of the clicker now. I did see that it is just until the behavior is learned.
> surprisingly the petsmart in my town does clicker training, but not until the older class. I think I am over thinking things. I have this vision of following Ringo around with clicker and treats in hand frantically clicking and treating every time he does some desired action and studiously ignoring him when he is not. It's tiring just to think about.
> thank you for the link.


lol, you only use it when you're in training mode and later when you want to reinforce a good behaviour. Ringo is still young you have plenty of time to train him. I started clicker training at 12 weeks in Millie's first training class.


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