# Cherry Eye!



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi all,

We're supposed to pick up Elliott on Tuesday, but I just got an email from the breeder telling me he developed "cherry eye" and that I'll need to get it surgically fixed by our vet, as this is not covered under her contract. She said it costs about $200.

Now...I don't even know what cherry eye is, so I'm researching that now and will call our vet on Monday.

Does anyone have experience with this? She said it's the first she's seen in her pups- it's common in Cockers- and his is very small.

I checked her contract and it indeed says that cherry eye is not covered.

I don't know what to do : (


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

is it not covered by the insurance that he will be coming with, or the insurance your taking out on him? 

i think a dane i know had it, their are vidios on youtupe of ways to fix it for a couple of days. honestly dont know much about it.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

The breeder doesn't replace the puppy with a healthy one or pay for the procedure. So I have to decide whether to take him or lose my deposit. But I know nothing about cherry eye, so I'm researching it now.




kendal said:


> is it not covered by the insurance that he will be coming with, or the insurance your taking out on him?
> 
> i think a dane i know had it, their are vidios on youtupe of ways to fix it for a couple of days. honestly dont know much about it.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

this is one of the reasons we take insurance out on our pups from the day we get them. (as in it starts the day we pick them up) 

the breeder realy should be sending the pups home with 4 weeks insurance that the cherry eye should be covered by. 

how long have they given you to decide?


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi Kendal,

Insurance wasn't an option; in fact, I've never heard of it out here.
She simply said that we should take him in for surgery, which would cost about $200. She did not offer to pay for it or even lower the price of this pup.

My heart is broken! From what little I've seen online, there can be problems with fixing the eye- it can cause dry eye, meaning needing drops for the rest of its life.

I emailed the breeder back asking what we can do to make this work. I can't believe it's fair to expect me to pay an extra $200 (and who knows- maybe my vet charges more?) for a puppy we haven't even picked up yet.

It would be like picking out a new car and being told that it has a big scratch on it that would cost $$ to get it fixed. Who would purchase the car, if that was the case?

I've put a $250 deposit in this pup. Not sure what she will come back with, but I'm really upset. We were to pick him up on Tuesday. She said she noticed it but thought it would resolve on its own, but since it didn't, wanted me to know what's going on.

: (


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

terrym2442 said:


> Hi Kendal,
> 
> Insurance wasn't an option; in fact, I've never heard of it out here.
> She simply said that we should take him in for surgery, which would cost about $200. She did not offer to pay for it or even lower the price of this pup.
> ...



do you know if the pups were ever checked by a vet, i know 2 cockers with dry eye who live a very hapy life. 

the insurance thing is standered practice here it only seems to be acidental litters or breeders who just dont care who dont give you 4 weeks insurance with the pup. 

i know someone whos pup got ill when with the breeder, she got beter before going to her new home, but further tests said she had liver problems, the breeder offered to take her back and refund them but the fell in love with her. 

im not sure if i like the sound of your breeder, even breeders selling older pups who they dont have homes for yet drop their price because of the age of the pup being older than 8-9 weeks. i wonder if insurance aojld cover it concidering you know about it before picking him up.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I asked her what options I have, given the cost of surgery would be $200 or more (hoping she'd cover the cost or lower the price of this pup). Instead, she said she'd either give me my deposit back or let me purchase one of her remainder pups (much more expensive, as it is a tcup). 
She did not offer any info about the outcome of such surgeries, etc. 
I do know that when the other 2 pups in Elliott's litter didn't sell, she lowered the price and sold them very quickly after that.

I'm stumped. 
I've not seen breeders here in the US offer insurance.


----------



## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

Awww, I am sorry, this must be so difficult for you  I don't understand why the breeder won't lower the price for you, if you still want to take Elliott home . What will she do with him if you don't take him home? Poor puppy, poor you!

I have noticed some breeders here offer 6 weeks of insurance with their puppies. Ours didn't and we still don't have insurance. Can't decide about it! I do know from what I have read that they probably don't cover pre-existing conditions.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, I called the breeder. She was very nice, but kinda hurt that I"d ask her to consider knocking the price down, since I'll have to pay for surgery. She said it's not profitable- her prices are low (they are), yet...she did knock the prices down on Elliott's brothers when they turned 8 weeks and they sold right away.

She said she'd knock down $25, then she said $50. I don't get it.

I THINK what I'm seeing here is that, according to her, a cherry eye is no big deal. She's recommending I get it "tucked and stitched"; not removed, which she feels is barbaric and is the cause for dry eye.

The plan is I'll call my vet for his opinion and get back to her with our decision. She will give me the deposit back if we don't take him.

Here's how it looks (closeup):


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

My sister had a puppy that had a hernia once, which is basically just a poking out umbelical cord. She called the vet, found out it cost about $100 to fix, and charged that much less. It didn't seem fair to sell a litter of puppies at the same price and tell one owner out of 7, "oh, by the way, this one needs a $100 surgeury, good luck with that!" Especially since you haven't even picked up your puppy yet. 

I have heard that cherry eyes can have a problem with re-occuring, and may cause future medical problems. Or it could be fixed and never happen again. I just might be a little worried about a breeder that just expects you to pay for it, and doesn't seem to care much about it. If you did decide to go with another puppy you could put that same $200 towards shipping a different puppy to you from another breeder, if there weren't any other nearby breeders. 

Personally I would vote for finding a breeder that doesn't up the price for T-Cup puppies (a term often used by back-yard breeders, along with warlock, royal, giant ect) or has to immediantly drop the price on her older puppies because they're still there (better breeders normally have waiting lists). Plus expecting you to cover the cost of the surgery. Does she do any health testing (patella/hip or eye?), are the puppies parents AKC registered or traceable? Do you have references from past puppies? It might be worth it to try to find a better breeder, even if they charge more. 

You can check out other breeders on the http://www.cockapooclub.com/ website, just look for star rated breeders on the bar on the left.


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

My sister had a puppy that had a hernia once, which is basically just a poking out umbelical cord. She called the vet, found out it cost about $100 to fix, and charged that much less. It didn't seem fair to sell a litter of puppies at the same price and tell one owner out of 7, "oh, by the way, this one needs a $100 surgeury, good luck with that!" Especially since you haven't even picked up your puppy yet. 

I have heard that cherry eyes can have a problem with re-occuring, and may cause future medical problems. Or it could be fixed and never happen again. I just might be a little worried about a breeder that just expects you to pay for it, and doesn't seem to care much about it. If you did decide to go with another puppy you could put that same $200 towards shipping a different puppy to you from another breeder, if there weren't any other nearby breeders. 

Personally I would vote for finding a breeder that doesn't up the price for T-Cup puppies (a term often used by back-yard breeders, along with warlock, royal, giant ect) or has to immediantly drop the price on her older puppies because they're still there (better breeders normally have waiting lists). Plus expecting you to cover the cost of the surgery. Does she do any health testing (patella/hip or eye?), are the puppies parents AKC registered or traceable? Do you have references from past puppies? It might be worth it to try to find a better breeder, even if they charge more. 

You can check out other breeders on the http://www.cockapooclub.com/ website, just look for star rated breeders on the bar on the left.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Such a difficult situation for you as you kind of bond with a puppy before bringing it home and it's something you've been looking forward to for a while. Heart says get the little fella and get him sorted and looked after, head says you are paying good money so want the healthiest puppy possible and should avoid long term problems and expense.

I would ask the vet you'll be using for their opinion and show them the pictures. Is it something that has been getting worse since she noticed it?

I would also ask why it isn't covered in insurance. Is it because it is an expensive, long term problem? I'm not sure that you'll be able to get any cover for it as the condition is already present.

Most breeders would offer an alternative puppy or refund the deposit if the chosen puppy develops a health problem.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks for your input. It is SO HARD to know what to do. Her prices are already low, so she can't go less than $50 off. 

I am in contact with the breeder of this pup's DAD, who is the founder of the American Cockapoo Club (ACC) and SHE has been guiding me a lot throughout this entire process, since the breeder herself has not had enough time to answer all of my questions thoroughly. This woman has told me that my breeder is excellent, with good healthy dogs and that the surgery is a simple process that could be done when he's fixed, to save me money. She said the cherry is quite small and shouldn't present any problems later and shouldn't be a reason NOT to take him. She still owns my pups grandfather and she said my pup has very healthy lines with great temperaments. 

Still...you have a good point- finding a dog that does NOT need surgery. I will see what my vet says tomorrow.

Here's how the parents of my pup are described on the website:

Dad: Health clearances: OFA hips, knees and patellas normal, Cerf'd
Coat: Non-shed curl
Mom: Health clearances: OFA patellas normal
And: Our breeding dogs are also health checked by our vet, and we only use healthy dogs with sound genetics in our breeding program. 

And:
~~ are checked by our licensed veteranarian before they are placed in a new home. (Paperwork is included)

~~ receive their first puppy shot from our veteranarian, and are wormed.

~~ receive a neopar and are wormed a couple of weeks before going to the vets office for extra protection.

~~ have 24/7 loving care.

~~ learn to potty train to paper/potty pad and then to outside.

~~ are socialized by many different age groups and by both males and females. 

~~ come from proven lines of high quality champion lines. Our breeding dogs must also pass health and temperament testing.

~~ are pedigreed and come from AKC lines.

~~ are registered.

~~ are weaned naturally to high quality puppy food and healthy supplementation.

~~ are guaranteed by our contract that is posted on our website.

*** (It is amazing how many breeders skip some or all of these steps to save time and money!) 

Arghh....this is a tough one. : (


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

So it all looks sound enough. I think your answer lies with the vets response. Hopefully they will say it's easily treated and will reassure you. Maybe get a couple of vets opinions as they often have quite different ideas and responses.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes, I can't wait to see what the vet says and what the cost would be. But now, many are telling me that the breeder should have offered to do the surgery before it came to this (pix on her website of him show the cherry if you look very closely- I didn't think to do that, but someone else looked just now). Those pix are from 2 weeks ago.

She did say she had hoped it would disappear, but as it hasn't, said I'll need to have it surgically repaired.

I dunno- it just doesn't sound right to me. Like someone said to me- if I'd picked out a brand new car and came to pick it up only to find a huge scrape on it, would the dealership expect ME to get it fixed?


----------



## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Surely, it's a matter of consumer law - you put a deposit down for a product that she is not now able to offer you (the product she is now offering you is not as it was described). Therefore, you should get your money back. It should be treated in EXACTLY the same way as a car, you're right. However, I don't think you can force her to lower her price, only to pay back your deposit. Is there a consumer rights association you could contact to be sure of this (not sure how US law differs from UK law - and I'm not exactly an expert in UK law!).

I think you should find out your rights and then, if I'm right, ask for your money back - perhaps that will focus her mind a bit. You could then point out that she probably won't get any takers for a dog with Cherry Eye, so without you she'll be facing having to pay for the operation herself and then (from what you've said) selling the dog at a reduced price because it is older. I think she is counting on the fact that you have bonded with the puppy and that you won't want to say no.


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Doesn't sound right to me either - the pup is gorgeous and the problem may turn out to be minor, but why are you expected to pay for the op - the pup still belongs to the breeder until it is paid for. Hope the vet gives you good news, but you should still not have to pay for the op, whatever. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

Sounds like a good breeder by that. Can't say for sure her dogs temperaments, but health seems great.

That does make me reconsider the find another breeder thing somewhat.

But the cherry eye does still bug me. Might she have another litter soon?


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

The good news is that she did offer to give me my deposit back. And I'm hoping that she IS counting on me to go through with paying for the surgery, thinking I've already bonded with the little guy. 

So my HOPE is that my vet will reassure me that it's a simple and inexpensive procedure (maybe do it while he's being 'fixed'"). 

THEN I tell her that I'll move forward but expect her to pay for all or part of the procedure. You guys are right- if I back out, it will be a much bigger problem for her. Maybe she's watching to see how I play this out, hoping I'll hang in and just take him. But it's not right.

Sound good?

Otherwise, does anyone know of a litter available now or very soon in the USA? I think she is expecting more pups, but it'll be a few months before they're ready and I'm looking for a spring pup.

BTW, you guys have been FANTASTIC. Thanks for all your feedback and support!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Im gob smacked, I really cant believe she wont knock you that amount off, as Kelly says if you dont take him she still has to rehome him and try and sell him with the condition. Yeh see what the vet says , show him the picture, if its straight forward and over and done wiht then i would just be striaght and tell her you want the price reducing ( surely she wont want you backing out) but if its a long standing problem sad as it sounds I think id have to walk away ..............oooh sorry hope it all turns out the way you want it good luck x


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Sorry Terry i was in a rush to respond and have really just said what you've already posted ,,, once a gain good luck and fingers crossed x


----------



## Georgiapeach (Feb 12, 2011)

Cherry eye isn't life threatening, but it can recur after being fixed. I have a lab that has gotten it more than once. At one point, his cherry eye popped on its own - I guess he poked it on something (gross, I know), and rather than becoming infected and nasty, it went away. While it healed, I wiped it frequently b/c it oozed for a couple of days. My vet said the only danger is if it gets so big that it can potentially scratch the cornea, causing damage to the eye. Here's a website that has a picture and description. Apparently, Cocker Spaniels are one of the breeds that get it a lot. http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/cherry-eye-in-dogs.html

This breeder doesn't sound very responsible...


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Update*

::: UPDATE :::

Today I called my vet and a 2nd vet in the neighborhood I've used in the past. The former told me that surgery doesn't always solve the issue- they recommended complete removal of the cherry. Cost for surgery: $240 + $86 for anesthesia + post op meds. 

MY vet said they would refer me out to an opthomology specialist and I would be looking at $500-$750 and again, no guarentees. HER opinion was to look elsewhere and find a healthy pup.

There is a weird twist to the story. A colleague friend of mine in another city is also looking for a brown/white Cockapoo. Last week, she showed me pix of a litter of gorgeous pups, but they didn't have the right ***/size so she found a different breeder.

After this fiasco, with my heart broken, I emailed her original breeder and her pups are still available! We are now working on picking the right one for us.

Strangely, this litter was born the exact same day as Elliott's.

We're sorting things out and if all goes well, Elliott the Second will come home soon. 

Fingers crossed.


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

That's great! Lots of us on here believe in fate when getting a dog, so I'm sure that you'll end up with the right dog for you. Once you have a dog, you have to accept the cost and upset if they need surgery, but to embark on that before you have even collected your dog is not an ideal situation. Hope it works out.


----------



## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh good for you, congratulations


----------



## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Definitely fate.


----------



## caradunne (Nov 29, 2010)

Good luck, you are definately doing the right thing.


----------



## alfiedoo (Sep 6, 2010)

Good luck and it sounds like its meant to be!!!! The original breeder will now have to re home the other pup and you can bet she has to reduce the price!!


----------



## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

I hope you find your Elliott the Second quickly because I know this has been difficult...and I hope the original Elliott finds another wonderful home like yours  He is SO cute, reminds me of Chloe when she was tiny. Maybe the breeder can take a lesson from this situation though.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Good call - let's hope you find your perfect puppy soon.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Good luck with new litter hope one suites you , must be the right thing , difficult descision but you want a healthy dog. Similar to when we got Mable, we'd been waiting for a litter and a choc roan bitch was born and we said we'd have her then the breeder rang and said that she was nt managing to go to the toilet that the vet was going to try and stertch her anus, at this point like you i was concerned about future problems and my vet advised to maybe walk away, at least the breeder had told me I felt as though she could have said nothing and had the procedure done and not said any thing anyway the vet had to put the poor thing down . Then like you found a litter where they had been born on the day the other pup had died ... and so we got mable. Really hope it all works out fingers crossed x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

*Elliott the Second*

Hi all,

Thanks for all your support and advice as I navigated through this insanity.

The good news is- I have purchased the puppy I had my eye on and so I'd like to officially introduce you to him! I am so happy but still being cautious, as one never knows what can happen at the last minute! 

His breeder will be shipping him to me later this week via Chicago.

Here is a close up of Elliott and below that is a pix of him with his littermates. Keep your fingers crossed, everyone!


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

They are all gorgeous! So happy you have found an elliot the 2nd


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks, Lia. I'll celebrate when we pick him up at the airport!


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Karen, does Elliott the 2nd look a bit like your Mabel??


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

At least later this week is very soon!! How exciting. Which breeder did you get him from?


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

he looks like he will be chocolat roan. 

what did the other breeder say when you turned down the pup


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

That's if the weather cooperates. We're in for some winter storms, I see. Ugh.
My friend/colleague was searching for Goldendoodles and found this breeder about an hour west of Chicago and learned that she breeds the occasional Cockapoo. 
She still has the other 3 pups available (as of today); if you'd like her contact info, PM me and I'd be happy to give you her contact info.


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh lord I think I would be shot if I brought home another one right now ahahah. I was just wondering if it was the same one we got Rufus from  Best of luck!!


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Lia, was Rufus from the Chicago area? Actually, closer to Milwaukee?


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Kendal, I'll bet you're right, though she says he's a Parti. The lighting throws me off. Here are more pix:

http://s848.photobucket.com/albums/ab42/terrym2442/




kendal said:


> he looks like he will be chocolat roan.
> 
> what did the other breeder say when you turned down the pup


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> Lia, was Rufus from the Chicago area? Actually, closer to Milwaukee?


He was from Wisconsin. I'm from MA but went to college out there. Either way, I'm sure things will work out  It just has to! After all you've already been through, Elliot the 2nd wont let you down!


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> Here is a close up of Elliott and below that is a pix of him with his littermates. Keep your fingers crossed, everyone!


Ohhh I'm so happy for you he looks absolutely gorgeous


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

terrym2442 said:


> Kendal, I'll bet you're right, though she says he's a Parti. The lighting throws me off. Here are more pix:
> 
> http://s848.photobucket.com/albums/ab42/terrym2442/


most ran pups start off partie and by the time they hit 8 to 12 weeks you see the coulor showing thrugh, he will be lovely either way. its posible the breeder has never produsced a roan before, my breeder had never produce one like Delta so didnt know what to call her colour, so on her veccination card that she is chocolat and white but my vet has her down as sable, and after talking to another breedar she is concidered a red sable and white parti but by the time she is 1 year old she will just be red and white parti as the sable will have grown out or been clipped off after her first hair cut this saterday.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

The first breeder was very angry! She asked if I wanted my entire deposit back and when I said yes, she said it wasn't fair. She expected me to pay for the surgery and now she was stuck. Unreal. 

I pointed out that the pup had the eye problem for a while- you can see it in the early web photos if you look closely. Woa, she was mad and said I was calling her an unethical breeder.

At any rate, she did refund my deposit.

Very upsetting- the whole thing.



kendal said:


> he looks like he will be chocolat roan.
> 
> what did the other breeder say when you turned down the pup


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

i wonder what will happen with the pup?


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> The first breeder was very angry! She asked if I wanted my entire deposit back and when I said yes, she said it wasn't fair. She expected me to pay for the surgery and now she was stuck. Unreal.
> 
> I pointed out that the pup had the eye problem for a while- you can see it in the early web photos if you look closely. Woa, she was mad and said I was calling her an unethical breeder.
> 
> ...


Well more fool her for not behaving better. If she had pointed out the problem as soon as she had become aware of it and discussed the puppies price in the light of it then the outcome may have different. Instead she just crossed her fingers and hoped it would go away on it's own. I'm pleased that you have found Elliot 2 so quickly which means you can look forward to his arrival instead of feeling down because of all the hassle the breeder has given you. Look forward to hearing about his arrival and seeing pics very soon.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

So glad you found him and he looks to die for... I would have said chocolate roan. Dont tell mable but he looks lovlier sshhh. Like Kendal said mable was white and black when born and started turning roan as she got older, the older she gets the more roaning is apparent and really now only has a white patch on the top of her head.Will be great to see how his coat developes he's going to be a looker, look forward to seeing how he changes. All the best for later in the week when you can welcome home Elliot x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Kendal, she said she'd have to repair the eye. With the pup now at 10 weeks, she'll have to sell him for less, which by the way, she did with his brothers when they didn't sell by 8 weeks. She knocked off about $100 or more from their price. But dug in her heels with mine. It was not a wise move on her part.

Mandy, you may be right. She might not know it's a roan- she specializes in Doodles and Poodles. Either way, I think he'll be a handsome guy. Just hope he's sweet!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Ooooh Andy have you seen Elliot x x x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Karen, you're so sweet. Do you have pix up of Mabel? She looks a lot like Elliott the 2nd to me from the avatar and I've been admiring her!

At first, my hubby didn't care for the look but has changed his mind. One daughter said she liked the pure chocolates better. Oh well! I liked this little guy. Plus, he is the smallest and calmest, says the breeder.

I have a question- is it true that the pup will be closer to the size of the poodle vs the cocker parent in an F1 litter? Elliott/2nd's dad (poodle) is 8 lbs. Mom (cocker) is 20-25 lbs. Breeder thinks the pup will be around 15 lbs, partly because he's smaller than the others. I just read in a Cockapoo book that in F1, the pups will generally be closer in size to the poodle parent.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

it depends, i think my lots mums and dads were big for their breed as the are bigger than most cockars i know and much bigger than any minni poodle i have met 

the weight depends on you and how much you feed, dogs like us can become ver fat very quick, my two eldist i dont have to worry about but Echo puts on weight very quick and i think Delta will be the same.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Ah, ok. I suppose I'll have to wait and see. The Portuguese Water Dogs I've had were both picky eaters but blew up from stealing food off the table/counter. Harper is daddy's girl and he spoils her with table scraps, so she's gotten too puffy. It'll be interesting to have a dog that chows down dog food. Mine never really did.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

lol my gypsy was picky from day one. it took be about a year and a half before she would eat most on her dinner. now she will eat most things but can still take wesks where she shows no interest in it. i tend to falow her example now and the have atleast one day a week sometimes 2 (spred out of coarse) where i dont feed them.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

That's interesting! From much of what I've read, Cockapoos love their food!


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

every dog is different. i think there are atleast 7 picky eaters on thus forum if not more. my other three will scoff their dinner and look for more now gypsy has started looking for seconds lol it taken 4 years for her to wank more than what i put infrount of her.


----------



## andy0 (Jan 10, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Ooooh Andy have you seen Elliot x x x


yes he is so cute i love his colouring just perfect


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Ive posted some recent pictures under "whoa" on cockapoo pictures... called that cos its a miracle that i ve managed to do it. Wilf and mables mums were both very small blue roans but but he definitely is the same size a s most cockers we meet, bigger in height and build than a miniture poodle. Wilf has always been picky and will choose not to bother but Mable is a totally different kettle of fish, shes so greedy i thnik she'd eat until she was sick and cries when it gets to tea time... if anyones in the kitchen thats where she'll be. Your daughter will love him he's gorg x


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

"I have a question- is it true that the pup will be closer to the size of the poodle vs the cocker parent in an F1 litter?"

Not to a noticeable extent at least, from what I've seen. Thought by comparing the pups weights at birth and a 8 weeks it can be pretty easy to tell who will lean more cocker or poodle.

I'm glad you didn't get the first Elliott, that lady sounds a bit nuts in all honesty.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, gang- I think it's a go with Elliott the 2nd. I really have to start calling him Elliot, unless I see him and decide he doesn't look like an Elliott.

After an entire day of back and forth calls with the breeder, we figured out how to get him here. It's too far of a drive and there were concerns about the airline (long story).

We have confirmation - *TA DA* - that my new baby will be coming home this Saturday afternoon.

I'm STILL crossing my fingers after all that's happened.

I see some new messages! I'll see what you guys have been talking about.

Thanks again for all your support!


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Splendid, look forward to hearing all about it.


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

Can't wait for pictures of the lad.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I have some up from the breeder, but they're probably the same ones I have in this thread: http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab42/terrym2442/Elliott/ElliottFromAbove1.jpg


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

Yay! That's good news! So excited


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes- finally- good news!


----------



## alfiedoo (Sep 6, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> Well, gang- I think it's a go with Elliott the 2nd. I really have to start calling him Elliot, unless I see him and decide he doesn't look like an Elliott.
> 
> After an entire day of back and forth calls with the breeder, we figured out how to get him here. It's too far of a drive and there were concerns about the airline (long story).
> 
> ...


Yah ...........a happy ending! Good luck for Saturday!! x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks, Leone. Time to study the housetraining posts here!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Good luck for Saturday look forward to seeing more of him... ans finding out if he's still an Elliott x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'll keep everyone posted. Now that this is resolved, time to obsess over taking care of him. I'm rusty, even though it's only been 2 1/2 years since we got Harper. Hope this guy is calmer as a pup. Hoo boy.


----------



## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I know I keep banging on about my human babies, but there's 2 years between them and I couldn't believe how much I'd forgotten! It all comes flooding back though. 

Enjoy the mayhem! It'll be fun.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm nervous because my last two Porties were INSANE puppies. I mean REALLY difficult. I hope this little guy is easier.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Stop getting cold feet lol it'll be fine ... honest x


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

Don't worry, it'll be easy! 

Just think about it this way, even if he is a evil little monster, he'll be very small and weight about nothing compared to a Portie. So no matter what, he'll be a lot easier because he can be handled, penned and exercised much easier in comparison. 

And I've heard a portie pup can be evil -at least a little!- where as a cockapoo normally isn't too much trouble.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Sure hope you guys are right! Gotta find my puppy books. Do you really have to take them out every hour? Will he wail all night the first few nights? LOL, I'm nervous, for sure.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Unfortunately out all the bl---y time to wee at first, when they wake up, when they've been playing, when they've eaten or drunk ... or just cos they are sniiffing round abit too much lol . Mable only cried for a few miniutes the first night she went to bed but did cry to go to the loo in the middle of the night sometimes, and can still wake up early sometimes now,she's 6 months x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Fun times! The middle of the night thing will be the worst. I also remember both my dogs HATED the crate. HATED it. Screamed bloody murder. Someone recommended a DVD on how to help a dog love its crate. I bought it but of course, where did I put it? LOL-


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Try getting in with him lol x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

With my former dog, she was so freaked by the crate, I ended up putting her on the bed after too many nights of her shrieking. She only had one accident-at 10 weeks! 

Hey, did you see my post about your doggie photos in the photo thread? Gosh, they are gorgeous!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Just looked thankyou ... if you search for the thread "she's got a name" (when Mable was Pearl ...democracy did nt rule when the name was pulled out of the hat lol ) it shows a blue roan cockapoo grown up, Im hoping Mable will go curlier like him, not sure if she'll go as dark but he started off looking just like her... your Elliot is a beauty and will get so much attention from people when you're out x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

That is a fascinating thread. So Mabel was originally Pearl! That means that Elliott could still become Hank (one of my other choices). That merle is gorgeous. They ALL are. I wonder if Elliott will change colors!


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

> Do you really have to take them out every hour?


 Not always, during sleep of just lazy times it can be longer. You'll learn to read his signals fast, and he'll chose the potty time after about a week or two.



> Will he wail all night the first few nights?


If you have the crate near you, he shouldn't as much. If your breeder had started him crating -should have- it'll be even easier.



> The middle of the night thing will be the worst.


Some dogs don't wake up in the night it first, or even at all. 'Lo slept the night after about 9 weeks.



> So Mabel was originally Pearl! That means that Elliott could still become Hank (one of my other choices)


'Lo was a Suki until she hit about 5 weeks, don't know if that counts lol. Changing names is easy, to us, a name is a identity. To them, it means 'come' or 'pay attention' in most cases. They don't treasure names as we do, it only takes a day or two to change a dog over as long as you work with treats.



> I wonder if Elliott will change colors!


Only if his parents have ticking. Did you get pics of them?



> I also remember both my dogs HATED the crate.


It's all about the way there exposed to them, in most cases. Feed him in the crate, give him good treats in the crate, let him nap in it, he'll soon realize their not so bad.

Try 'crate games' too. There's dvd's and vids on youtube. It's supposed to really help.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

How odd. I just watched the first part of Crate Games today! It's great, except for one small thing- it doesn't tell you what to do to GET them in the crate. That was the issue with Harper. I did everything you're supposed to do- put treats in there; make it fun and safe. I sat near it playing with her. But once I got her in there, she'd scream. 

Elliott- well- no, the breeder didn't prepare him very well. She took him to the vet today and she said he cried the whole way there in the crate. But afterward, he was so exhausted, he settled down. 

My plan is to keep him in a crate next to my bed, or if he's really tiny enough, put him in his travel crate ON my bed. A friend did that with her Yorkie and it really helped.

I can't believe she was a Suki. That's my mother's dog's name! A toy poodle. Great dog and I almost got one, too.

I do have pix of his parents. He's an F1. Mom is a chocolate Cocker- 20-25 lbs. I don't see ticking but I don't have great photos. Dad is a 6 lb poodle- light brown. But you can see the ticking or roan or whatever on Elliott. 

She said he'd be around 15 lbs, which would be great- I was hoping for a smaller dog.

So here's another question: where do you keep a puppy when you're, say, in the shower? If you let him walk around the bathroom, he could have an accident. If you put him in the crate, he'll cry and wake up everyone (I tend to shower at night).

I know things will fall into place. But I was just wondering.


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> So here's another question: where do you keep a puppy when you're, say, in the shower? If you let him walk around the bathroom, he could have an accident. If you put him in the crate, he'll cry and wake up everyone (I tend to shower at night).
> 
> I know things will fall into place. But I was just wondering.


If you take him out to wee first, he'll probably like to watch you shower. But I think you're going to have to accept that there will be plenty of accidents and stock up on carpet/floor cleaner and paper towel! Elliott should learn quite quickly to wee on command and that makes it easier to get him to go when it's convenient to you.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

just take him in with you, my lot like to settle down and sleep on cloths on the floor. it will also teach them the bathroom is a nice place and not just where they get forced to have a bath when they jummped in a stinky bog.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks for the tips. I have new mommy anxiety for sure.
Just ran out to buy a ton of paper towel and that enzyme cleaner. 

Hard to believe he's on his way! Oh lordy, and it's begun to SNOW here.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Has he already set off then x


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Nope- he arrives tomorrow (Sat) just past noon. It's only a 1 1/2 hr flight.


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

So excited for you! And keep us posted - none of this rubbish about being too busy with the pup


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Dylansmum said:


> So excited for you! And keep us posted - none of this rubbish about being too busy with the pup


Haha. Yes, he will sleep eventually and if you can take your eyes off him for a minute......... we will we waiting


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Waiting excitedly for news. It must be so strange meeting him for the first time off the plane. Expect a post and couple of pics, however brief, as we have all been on this journey with you and can't wait to 'meet' him...


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi guys!
He's at the airport in Chicago. Breeder's hubby called to let me know. And that he cried all the way in the little plastic crate 

Will update you as soon as we settle in here. Thanks for all your support!

Oh, we did have to fly in a puppy once back in '94. In those days, there were very few Portie breeders. So we got Annie (RIP) from Connecticut.

Breeder hubby told me Elliott is an active, happy puppy with a lot of wag in his tail, but calms down nicely when you put him on your lap. Porties never calm down enough to sit on your lap, so this will be a nice change. Fingers crossed that he's not a wild child.

He also told me a lot about the temperaments of his parents, so that was nice. 

Leaving in an hour, with a bagful of supplies.


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

He will be fine once you have him cuddled up beside you. He will Know he has found his mummy and will soon forget his ordeal. I am excited for you - what an adventure. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.


----------



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I can't even imagine what it's like for international adoptive parents to meet their child for the first time at the airport. I know many who have done it and they can't even describe their feeligs.

This, of course, is a LOT different, but well....maybe not ALL that different.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Oooh I bet your walking on egg shells excited and nervous..... look forward to hearing from you take care x


----------



## Albertine (Mar 26, 2011)

This is exiting! Can't wait for your update!


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey Terry - maybe start a new thread for Elliot


----------



## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

For the crate games, couldn't you just toss in a treat and close the door? lol. 



> I can't believe she was a Suki. That's my mother's dog's name! A toy poodle. Great dog and I almost got one, too.


Cool! I did think it was a really cute name, but I just couldn't see her being a adult and a suki, I thought of it as more of a softer name, and I could tell she was going to be a brat. 



> I do have pix of his parents. He's an F1. Mom is a chocolate Cocker- 20-25 lbs. I don't see ticking but I don't have great photos. Dad is a 6 lb poodle- light brown. But you can see the ticking or roan or whatever on Elliott.


Sounds like nether parent in ticked then, but it is supposed to be very common in cockers, chances are he'll get more ticking them he has, though we'll have to wait and see how heavy. 



> So here's another question: where do you keep a puppy when you're, say, in the shower? If you let him walk around the bathroom, he could have an accident. If you put him in the crate, he'll cry and wake up everyone (I tend to shower at night).


Like everyone else said, in the bathroom! I do it too lol. I just scatter the clothes I shed around so they can all lay on them, they just go to sleep. 


Can't wait to see him!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Oooh Elliots obviously keeping you busy Terry, hopefully just entertained x


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

Hope all went well! Can't wait to see pics!


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

I have been wondering where he disappeared to. Looking all over for a mention. Terry must be really absorbed with him. I know the feeling


----------

