# Is this a "doodle dash" ? Puppy mania ...



## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Ludo can be very calm, he can be very playful, and then he can be absolutely *manic*. He is driving me crazy!

He will be fine - fed, played with, gone outside to potty, etc. when all of a sudden he starts attacking towels, my pants, and anything else that looks like a toy and starts barking and growling at me and my cats. Usually when he is in this mood is when he starts to hump things. 

I try to enforce rules during this time - tell him "drop it" and "sit" and turn my back on him if he's biting me, but he is relentless and will not listen. I end up going to sit on the couch far back enough where he cannot bite at me, and the cats have to sit high up because otherwise he scares them. 

I know puppies have hyper times and I have heard of the "doodle dash", but it concerns me that he completely will not listen to me and is uncontrollable. I don't want him to think that he is in charge and he can do whatever he wants and doesn't have to listen to me. I also don't want him to just attack and bite things randomly. How embarrassing and somewhat scary for when my friends come over! It looks like I have a raging dog in my home!

Right now he was going so crazy that I had to put him in his crate.

Please help!!!


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I don't have any solutions. Frankie did (and still does, to an extent) this and it is beyond frustrating. Many just say its a puppy phase and a "doodle dash", but I was always skeptical because, as I'm sure you feel, it doesn't look like a doodle dash. It looks like terror.

How old is Ludo? Frankie is now 16 weeks and still does it on occasion (2 days ago, my fiancee asked me "Why did we get him again?") but it seems to be slowing down a little bit. We think his problem is that he just doesn't know how to calm down when he gets in those moods. 

What we have recently done (starting about 4-5 days ago) is every time he attacks something (usually our pants, toes, socks, or hands), we pick him up and hold him at our side. Then we take him to a corner and just stand there facing the blank wall. We hold him there until he feels like he has calmed down (could be 30 seconds, could be 5 minutes). We then put him down and play it by ear, walk away if he goes to play with another toy, or pet him if he just stares up at us like he wants a good rub. We are doing this EVERY TIME now, so he knows that when he gets in those moods, all resemblance of fun gets taken away. 

The problem with these moods is that it is self-reinforcing. The puppy loves to bite and tug, so when he tugs your pants, it's just fun for him. You can also try to find out what the triggers are. We walk a bit slower now because we know fast legs = fun legs. We also know that he "attacks" my fiancee way more then he "attacks" me. So we try to be proactive, if we can, but know how to react as well. 

But one important rule, stay as calm as you possibly can. Don't say anything when you pick him up and hold him until he calms down, don't yell because it will make the pup more excited, just be calm. Patience and calm are the key to dog training, I think. 

Oh! We also would try to treat train him to not bite pant legs while walking next to us. We used a clicker, but i can work without as well. We just started small, taking one step, and if he didn't do anything, we said "yup" and gave him a treat (on the ground). Keep increasing the criteria and it works out kinda well. Just trying to train him to think before he just reacts to things. 

About it being embarrassing, it totally is. We had friends come stay the night 2 weeks ago and all Frankie did was "attack" them and my fiancee. I ended up holding him for the entirety of the night because I would set him down and he would just go right back at my OH arms and hair. But after we woke up the next morning, we went into Washington DC. Frankie is much better when he isn't in our apartment and GREAT in the car. So they at least got to see him when he was good, too. But my mom also came and stayed the night and Frankie did the same thing with her. It's a struggle, for sure! This weekend we are going to my parents house in Pennsylvania for the weekend, I'm hoping that he behaves. 

Sorry this is so long, but this sounded exactly like what Frankie did/does. I hope it gets better for you, I'm still waiting for Frankie to "get it", but he seems to be a little bit better now than he was 3 weeks ago. Patience, Calmness, and Consistency.


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## NikkiB (Jan 16, 2013)

Samson does this when he's completely over tired. The best thing is to give them a time out somewhere where he can sleep. Sometimes I will give him a chew on my lap and stroke him so he falls asleep. Usually then when he wakes up he's much calmer.
The doodle dash is more like when they suddenly, for no reason, suddenly tuck their tail and run round and round like a mad thing. So funny to watch with their ears flapping.


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## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Thank you for your response Sam, it is encouraging to know that this isn't happening just with my puppy!

Ludo is 10 weeks old, so I am hoping that once he gets older it will start to go away - as it seems to be doing with Frankie. It usually happens a bit before he is about to fall asleep - he gets hyper, and then manic, and then eventually calms down and goes to sleep.

Hopefully once we're allowed to take him on walks his moods will stabilize a little. We play with him out back but it's just not enough I don't think.

I'll try the wall trick next time it happens. I really don't like putting him in his crate when he's like that because he whines for a long time and I never want him to associate his crate with punishment.


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

NikkiB said:


> Samson does this when he's completely over tired. The best thing is to give them a time out somewhere where he can sleep. Sometimes I will give him a chew on my lap and stroke him so he falls asleep. Usually then when he wakes up he's much calmer.
> The doodle dash is more like when they suddenly, for no reason, suddenly tuck their tail and run round and round like a mad thing. So funny to watch with their ears flapping.


Frankie does the doodle dash and makes sounds that sound like Daffy Duck. It is incredibly funny!

I'm not sure about Ludo, but when we tried to give him a chew on our lap, he'd just chew on arms and hair and clothes. It was as if he wasn't interested in anything else. Can be frustrating for sure, but a timeout is usually the best way to go. We don't want him to not like the crate (he is in it for about 8 hours a day while we work), so the timeout in crate is not an option for us. We want to try to get him to realize he is tired and lay down on his own. He is getting a bit better, obviously still not an angel dog.


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

rellek said:


> Thank you for your response Sam, it is encouraging to know that this isn't happening just with my puppy!
> 
> Ludo is 10 weeks old, so I am hoping that once he gets older it will start to go away - as it seems to be doing with Frankie. It usually happens a bit before he is about to fall asleep - he gets hyper, and then manic, and then eventually calms down and goes to sleep.
> 
> ...


I think we started off on the wrong foot with Frankie. We've never raised a puppy before, so I think the first 2 weeks, we sort of took 10 steps back before we could make progress. So at about 11.5 weeks, we started over, pretty much - keeping calm (as much as possible, like I said, it's frustrating to no end), not yelling, doing handling exercises so he likes petting. 

I would talk calmly at Frankie and pet him in his good spots (behind the ears and belly) when I picked him up. I think it is to the point, now, that me picking him up actually calms him down a little. 

It just takes time. Raising a good pup is not an overnight task, much to my dismay, and takes loads of patience. Keep at it, you are doing wonderfully already. Your work *will* pay off.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

SamRinde said:


> I think we started off on the wrong foot with Frankie. We've never raised a puppy before, so I think the first 2 weeks, we sort of took 10 steps back before we could make progress. So at about 11.5 weeks, we started over, pretty much - keeping calm (as much as possible, like I said, it's frustrating to no end), not yelling, doing handling exercises so he likes petting.
> 
> I would talk calmly at Frankie and pet him in his good spots (behind the ears and belly) when I picked him up. I think it is to the point, now, that me picking him up actually calms him down a little.
> 
> It just takes time. Raising a good pup is not an overnight task, much to my dismay, and takes loads of patience. Keep at it, you are doing wonderfully already. Your work *will* pay off.


This is similar to us I think, Dudley was always a very (outwardly) confident pup and I think we spent too much time worrying about the whole 'pack leader' thing and forgetting that he was a baby that didn't know the rules. Now I tell my son to try to think of a good teacher he likes (I think most of the good ones have a natural calm assertiveness) and behave like they would - ie - be in charge but not bossy or loud. It goes against some peoples beliefs but we did have to hold him down at times (I don't think we were wrong with that one), because it was as if he had totally lost control, we were calm when we did it and quietly saying 'shhh, calm down' and after a while he did. I think with Dudley a lot of it was overtiredness, also I noticed he had an energy rush a little after eating - still does, you can do some training at that stage to use up the energy. If your puppy is left alone a lot during the day then I guess it could be that they still have excess energy but I think that is usually when they Doodle dash - which sometimes goes together with ankle biting but is usually more just solo madness, they do grow out of all of this (Dudley just does the dash when he is wet now). I have a dog that now tries licking you to death if you lay on the floor (leave that one to my son), or snuggles and gives lovely ear kisses. Keep calm and carry on distracting and giving time outs and you will be writing these posts to the newbies next year. Good luck. xx


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Molly used to have those moments and she wouldn't listen to anyone. It was always cause she was over tired so I would crate her for a nap and then she would be fine.


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

DB1 said:


> This is similar to us I think, Dudley was always a very (outwardly) confident pup and I think we spent too much time worrying about the whole 'pack leader' thing and forgetting that he was a baby that didn't know the rules. Now I tell my son to try to think of a good teacher he likes (I think most of the good ones have a natural calm assertiveness) and behave like they would - ie - be in charge but not bossy or loud. It goes against some peoples beliefs but we did have to hold him down at times (I don't think we were wrong with that one), because it was as if he had totally lost control, we were calm when we did it and quietly saying 'shhh, calm down' and after a while he did. I think with Dudley a lot of it was overtiredness, also I noticed he had an energy rush a little after eating - still does, you can do some training at that stage to use up the energy. If your puppy is left alone a lot during the day then I guess it could be that they still have excess energy but I think that is usually when they Doodle dash - which sometimes goes together with ankle biting but is usually more just solo madness, they do grow out of all of this (Dudley just does the dash when he is wet now). I have a dog that now tries licking you to death if you lay on the floor (leave that one to my son), or snuggles and gives lovely ear kisses. Keep calm and carry on distracting and giving time outs and you will be writing these posts to the newbies next year. Good luck. xx


Yea, the first two weeks, we tried the stare-downs, the holding the snout shut, and a lot of that grabby, stuff. I don't think it helped in Frankie's case at all and didn't like us even going for a pet because of that. It is taking time to reverse all of that, but he is starting to love belly rubs.. which is fantastic. and will let us pet him for a good while now without getting antsy or anything. These things just take time. I can't wait for Frankie to lick us to death, rather than bite. haha, although his ear kisses really make me uncomfortable. it's like the worst wet willy I've ever experienced.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Lol, made me laugh - not heard that expression for a while! my son went through a phase of doing those a couple of years ago ....now I bet some won't know what we mean!!


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm just 23 years old, so even in college (or university for all the England residents), some students still thought it was funny. 

 Glad I can make you laugh!


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## NikkiB (Jan 16, 2013)

DB1 said:


> Lol, made me laugh - not heard that expression for a while! my son went through a phase of doing those a couple of years ago ....now I bet some won't know what we mean!!


I must have led a very sheltered life!!!!!!! What do you mean? Is it printable??


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Lexi still does that on occasion minus the bitey business. When they were smaller it seemed to coincide with being tired, they just didn't know it. Now it's as I'd Lexi is preparing for sleep and runs around like a crazy dog in the yard then lays down and she's out. Beemer has pretty much stopped all together. He likes to chew and them fall asleep. 

In all honesty, I didn't believe everyone when they said they grow out of it. It was a relief to know that it wasn't me as others experienced the same thing but it seemed to get so bad I would cry. Now if I could just get their sleep pattern to coincide with my time zone and not the one from their birth place, that would be even more perfect.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

NikkiB said:


> I must have led a very sheltered life!!!!!!! What do you mean? Is it printable??


Ha - its not that bad, you wet your finger, poke it in someones ear and yell 'wet willy!' of course being a grown up I would never do such a thing! but not sure where it started from and don't like to think about what it actually suggests!! (especially when kids do it!).


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## NikkiB (Jan 16, 2013)

DB1 said:


> Ha - its not that bad, you wet your finger, poke it in someones ear and yell 'wet willy!' of course being a grown up I would never do such a thing! but not sure where it started from and don't like to think about what it actually suggests!! (especially when kids do it!).


Thank goodness for that! My mind was coming up with all sorts  My kids didn't learn that one thank goodness!!!!!


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## SamRinde (Jun 10, 2013)

Just an update - Frankie has been extremely good since we started doing the "timeout staring at a wall" thing. Even if we know he wants to bite (jumps at our calf with mouth open), he doesn't bite down and will realize what he is doing just moments after he is doing it. It's still annoying when our calf is getting hit with a dog, but it's much better.

We just spent the entire weekend 3 hours away at my parents house. They noticed a HUGE improvement since the last time they saw him and we're so pleased with the young gentleman he is. He was so nice to them and even sat in my dad's lap while he chewed on one of his toys. (He does that with us all the time, it was nice to see Frankie trust him like that) Great weekend!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

sounds as if you are doing really well, I think Dudley's biting and mad moments possibly went on for longer as we used to give him lots of other things to attack as a distraction and the methods we tried to stop him seemed to make him worse - I think with Ruths recommendation of rest schedule's and these methods you will probably suffer a lot less than we did in the long run. Although I guess they are individuals and he may have been exactly the same whatever we did!


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## Yogi bear (Feb 25, 2013)

Agree with everything that's been said by Sam and Dudley's mum (both gorgeous poos!) consistency and patience is key.

For the 'mania' we found Seymour was triggered by being over tired. We simply put him in the 'relaxation' position which we learnt at puppy class. This is when they sit on your lap facing away from you the back of their head against your chest, hands clasped (interlocked) under their armpits across the chest. And breathe slowly and calmly. They hear your heart beat against their head. Might wriggle for first few moments but bear with it. We do this when we know Seymour needs to sleep and he now falls to sleep almost instantly. Think yoga!! (Will attach a pic-not sure i explained myself properly!)

For the over excitability when out: before he reacts clamp him to your side but facing the other way so that he can't have the privilege of being involved. Hold for a few seconds until he's calm. Count to 3 slowly etc. then turn him back around. And repeat again when gets excited.

For the biting: literally yelp! Like a mother dog would to her pups. Make the same sound loud and high enough for them to notice! It really works. Then offer them a toy alternative as soon as they let go.

Seymour is just over 4 months old now and even though his adult teeth are now beginning to come through he doesn't bit AT ALL. He knows teeth to skin is a big no no and is so gentle.

I will attach a pic of the 'relaxation position' if he gets mania again haha but to be honest, it's been a long long while-that's how good the position is! 

Sorry for the long post. You're doing fab. When I got frustrated I used to go into the bathroom-close the door-scream for a bit, then come out and give him a cuddle! Haha 

Xx
https://www.facebook.com/SeymourTheRedCockapoo


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