# Down day :(



## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Not having a great day. Probably result of cumulative lack of sleep and that time of the month but feeling like I am getting everything wrong with Willow. We are switching her onto Barking Heads and I seem unable to get the quantities right. There are so many conflicting guides - the 'sticky' on here says 15g per kilo but the bag suggests so much more. I started with the 15g guidance but Willow spends the day looking at me like I am starving her - it does seem such a small amount. I increased the quantity yesterday and her poos were looser and more frequent culminating this morning in pretty much pure liquid bum (accident in the house) and noisy tummy. This suggests, I gave her too much, even though it was way under the 140-180g guidance on the bag. Despite being very careful about what I give her to eat, she is constantly eating the grass, mud and lawn weeds which are in the garden and don't know whether I should stop her - I see this as normal puppy behaviour so don't want to, but not sure if it is contributing to the tummy troubles. Looming on the horizon is my return to work at the beginning of September when she will be alone in the house for a number of hours - other than leaving her for a few minutes in the garden or leaving the room frequently and coming back in again, I have not left her alone at all. When she whines in her crate I am useless at leaving her because of all the tummy problems we have had I never know if it is because she needs the loo or just wants attention so tend to get her out and take her to the garden. Nights are ok - she goes in her crate without too much problem but stirs in the night and I take her out once or twice as she needs the loo - including an early morning poo, anywhere between 3.30am and 5. I cannot wait until she can 'go out' next Tuesday - both further into our garden and for a walk. It feels like we are stuck in limbo and hope that this will move us all on a bit. Any of you lovely people with great words of wisdom and experience? Sorry to rant on! Love my little bundle of fluff to bits but finding it tough right now


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Firstly wanted to say the first few weeks when your pup comes home can be tiring and difficult so try not to be hard on yourself. 
Both of mine had runny poos when they first came home, this is often just because of a change in environment. Also they had runny poos again when I changed their food over. Did you change the food over bit by bit each day? Mine have barking heads and Lola is coming up 5 months. From memory she was having around 40g x 3 meals a day and is now having around 60g x 3 meals. You could try giving chicken and rice for 48 hours then start in with the food again on the third day.
I would try and stop her from eating grass and weeds if possible when in the garden too. 
Regarding work in sept I would start this week leaving your pup. Don't make any fuss but say a cheery bye and pop her in the crate with radio on. Leave the house. Again when you return don't make a big fuss, you are trying to make it all normal. Start with 15 mins and build it up each day until you are leaving her for a couple of hours. I work 2 days and we have a dog walker for them - they are both fine being left after a good walk on a morning. 
Good luck with Willow


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Many thanks for your advice. Yes, I have been integrating BH slowly since last week as per the website's instructions. Today was the last day of using both foods but I opened the pack of wet food and it smelt off so she has to start her 100%BH a day early as I don't have a spare one. Yesterday I based the proportions on 100g BH across the day which really didn't seem much but she didn't seem to cope. Today I have reduced it to 60g to be fed across 4 meals -which is over the 15g per kilo as she is not yet 3kg but it still seems so little food!! I also wondered if anyone can offer any advice about her wees - I have noticed that there are times when she goes out and wees 2-3 times in a row. It could be scenting as she is in quite a small pen and I presume after 2 and a half weeks it is pretty smelly now. However, I was just concerned whether this could indicate anything more sinister? She doesn't seem to need to go out any more than normal, just goes more when she is out there sometimes? Has anyone had any experience of urinary infections in dogs and know what the symptoms are?


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

I have just checked on my bag of puppy food. 
Expected adult weight - small - 7kg at 3 months would be 130g per day at 3 months.
Expected adult weight - medium - 18kg at 3 months would be 230g per day.

I would estimate somewhere between 9 - 12kg approx for a fully grown Cockapoo which would be around 150 - 180g per day of food? I don't think 60g of food is enough for a 3 month old pup? Where has the 15g figure come from? 
Not sure about wee's - could be seeing on the scent, is the pen inside - if so you need to make sure all of the wee is cleaned so they don't keep going to the same spot.


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Sorry realized you said you read the 15g per day in a sticky. The food amounts really are just guidelines and as you said your pup looks hungry I would feed more than 60g. I would definitely give cooked chicken and rice for a day or so then start again.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

If Willow is ravenous for greens I'd get a stool and urine sample over to the vets just to be safe. Grass contains natural antibiotics and dogs instinctively eat it medicinally for UTIs and such. Hopefully it is just an adjustment to her food but better safe than sorry. Good for you for being a concerned and loving owner to her. It will get a lot easier as soon as her tummy settles down. 

As far as quantities go my personal (and completely unscientific) opinion is that most cockapoo puppies can be fed to hunger. My next puppy I will feed three times a day and remove what they have left behind after a reasonable time.


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks for all your help. I too feel 60g is too little but the extra made her poos soft? We have done chicken and rice before but I worry that it is just adding different food into the routine which we have had to do so much even though we've only had her 2 and a half weeks, bless her - weaning her off the wet food, adding in the BH, the chicken and rice before...its just so much swapping and changing and just feel we need to stick with one thing now to try not to bother her tummy more. She hasn't needed a poo again since the incident 1st thing. I did call the vets 1st thing to ask about the weeing and they said to keep an eye on it and call them again for an appt if I am concerned. How do you get a wee sample from a female puppy? I think she would move off pretty quickly if I followed her with a pot? Her pen is outside so we don't clean up after her wees.


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Vet appt booked for this afternoon - they had a cancellation. I feel like I am a neurotic mum of a newborn (been there, done that!!) worrying over everything but would really struggle to live with the fact there was a problem and I did not get checked out.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Tell your vet you met a fellow neurotic on a puppy board and then send me the bill if you must. Why take a chance on such a precious little mite?

My infant son once fell off the bed and I took him to emerg despite the fact that he was fine. I was so traumatized and neurotic I could not just sit at home and watch for symptoms. They thought I was totally nuts at the hospital!


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

fairlie said:


> Tell your vet you met a fellow neurotic on a puppy board and then send me the bill if you must. Why take a chance on such a precious little mite?
> 
> My infant son once fell off the bed and I took him to emerg despite the fact that he was fine. I was so traumatized and neurotic I could not just sit at home and watch for symptoms. They thought I was totally nuts at the hospital!


Oh Farlie, thank you! I do feel better knowing I am not alone in my over-worrying!! They do already think I am nuts at my vets so what do I have to loose? All checked out and no obvious problems thankfully - poo and wee sample checked. I would love to know what my neighbours thought of me putting a spoon under Willow's bum when she was weeing! Did the trick though, easier than I thought! The vet said to up the quantity of her food - as I suspected it was not enough so we'll just have to see what happens. She hasn't pooed since the 6.30am accident so it all seems to have gone the other way now! Or there's a shocker brewing - batten down the hatches! The tummy she feels is probably more likely due to what she is eating in the mud and that she is probably doing that more because she is hungry!! I've put her back on the remains of the probiotic supplement from her previous upset tummy which I will finish off tomorrow and we'll see what happens. Thank you again for your support!!


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Glad you got sorted at the vets. Sure it will all settle down over the next few days


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Hfd said:


> From memory she was having around 40g x 3 meals a day and is now having around 60g x 3 meals.


This is similar to what we fed too.


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Ruth - can you remember when you went down to two meals a day with yours? 
Helen x


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I remember being SO worried about everything and neurotic about getting all the 'behaviour' stuff right, think I worried so much about that I turned Dudley into a worrier (so now I worry about that!!), It is worth keeping an eye on what they pick up in the garden though, I used to think dogs would have the sense to know what is bad for them but they seem to have no idea and happily chew and swallow any old rubbish that can upset their tums, although I wouldn't worry about the odd bit of grass. Hope you feel a lot better about everything soon.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Hfd said:


> Ruth - can you remember when you went down to two meals a day with yours?
> Helen x


I think around 6-7 months with Lola and around 5 months with Nina only as she went off the lunchtime meal at this time. 

I kept going exclusively with puppy food until 9-10 months when I introduced adult with both girls. Both started getting a bit fussy with the puppy BH so I started trying the different adult flavours, and they had a mix of puppy and adult til around 12 months.


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm a petite young lady already, but in the first 2 weeks of having Tilly I managed to lose 10lb through worry, anxiety and running round after her so much that I forgot to eat.

If I could go back and do it again (which I wouldn't, even if you paid me!), I would tell myself that all these little things are not as important as I thought, that I should ask even more questions on here than I did and to seriously chill out!!

It's totally normal to worry - but try to enjoy it too. Your little Willow will be just fine


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

RuthMill said:


> I think around 6-7 months with Lola and around 5 months with Nina only as she went off the lunchtime meal at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> I kept going exclusively with puppy food until 9-10 months when I introduced adult with both girls. Both started getting a bit fussy with the puppy BH so I started trying the different adult flavours, and they had a mix of puppy and adult til around 12 months.



Thanks! I'm sure Billy was around 6 months when he dropped to 2 meals but Lola is not so bothered about her lunch at 5 months so may try her on 2 soon. She still seems to like her BH puppy but they both would happily try and eat each other's if I let them lol


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Lottierachel said:


> I'm a petite young lady already, but in the first 2 weeks of having Tilly I managed to lose 10lb through worry, anxiety and running round after her so much that I forgot to eat.
> 
> If I could go back and do it again (which I wouldn't, even if you paid me!), I would tell myself that all these little things are not as important as I thought, that I should ask even more questions on here than I did and to seriously chill out!!
> 
> It's totally normal to worry - but try to enjoy it too. Your little Willow will be just fine


Thanks, again it is reassuring I am not alone with all the worrying. I have definitely lost weight for forgetting to eat -kids, dog and hubby all fed and watered without fail, I just forget to sort myself out! Willow slept through the night completely last night - 10.30-5.15. I should be swinging from the rafters but spent blocks of the night worrying why she wasn't waking! Bonkers. It really is like having another baby!! Sitting here with her curled up on my lap does make it all worthwhile of course, but I will be glad when we move on from all the tummy troubles and food issues. Being able to take her out will also help greatly too - it has been hard work getting out and about due to the restrictions with Willow and my daughter's broken leg so I am definitely struggling with cabin fever and I think have too much time to over analyse things!! Thanks for all the help and support everyone - it is priceless. My sanity is hanging on in there due to this forum!!


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

My real human baby is due in just over 9 weeks. If I was that bad with a puppy, lord help me when the baby arrives!! Xx


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Ahh, now I've done the baby thing twice and to be honest, it really isn't that different - analysing poo, feeding issues (I failed miserably at breastfeeding and was devastated) sleep deprived, not eating properly etc (my husband lived on cornflakes for tea for about the first 2 weeks of my daughter's life - if you have any spare time before the baby arrives, cook meals and freeze them - you will thank yourself 100 times over there is something nutritious to chuck in the microwave!!). I do have 2 children so it can't be that bad as I went back and did it a second time but if you've done the puppy thing, you at least have some training in the baby thing!! Just rest up and gather your energy together for when s/he arrives and like you said to me, do enjoy it and try not to worry too much. My health visitor wisely said 'they survive despite us dear, not because of us'. I will never forget my daughter accidently slipping out of my hands in the bath and going under the water during her 1st bath. I sobbed my heart out, feeling dreadful, cuddling her...but despite a current broken leg, she is here, 8 years old and doing just fine, even though she was bottle fed!! Like puppy info, there is lots of conflicting advice so it is confusing but just ask for lots of support when/if you need it and lean on friends and family and you really will be just fine!!


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

All fabulous advice. The Hutterites do it best (I just read a book about them). Each new mother gets a second experienced mother to help full time for the first months and then a teenage baby holder to help for the first year. Will you have some help Lottie, apart from Tilly?


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

fairlie said:


> All fabulous advice. The Hutterites do it best (I just read a book about them). Each new mother gets a second experienced mother to help full time for the first months and then a teenage baby holder to help for the first year. Will you have some help Lottie, apart from Tilly?


ooooh, I like the sound of that set up. I might even consider a 3rd if I had that.....errr no on second thoughts......!


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

fairlie said:


> All fabulous advice. The Hutterites do it best (I just read a book about them). Each new mother gets a second experienced mother to help full time for the first months and then a teenage baby holder to help for the first year. Will you have some help Lottie, apart from Tilly?


Fairlie, I am planning on making a sign for my front door that says "no entry unless you are carrying a casserole, or are prepared to get the Hoover out"

My mum lives 20 minutes away, I have 2 good friends in the cul-de-sac where I live, and Tilly's dog sitter 4 doors away. I'm very close to a couple of my work colleagues too and will certainly be accepting all help offered! OH! And I almost forgot about James! He is very hands on and does more housework than I do anyway.

With regard to breast feeding - I'm not surprised you were devastated Tetley. All the information leaflets I have been given so far are more like propaganda "if you bottle feed, your baby will end up in hospital" etc. talk about pressure!!


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

It was hideous - no-one was putting any pressure on me to do it except myself. No-one warned me that it might not go smoothly so I felt a complete failure. I persevered for a month but was in such severe pain every time she latched on. I spent most of my time in tears. It was awful. In the end it was my mum who made me stop and think by telling me that bonding with my baby was far more important than which milk she got and that was my turning point. I switched to bottles and hated doing so but we started to move forward - I felt like I was a month behind everyone else but it was the right decision. She is fine, has been no more ill than any of her friends, is one of the brightest in her class and has no allergies. So I don't think it has done her any harm - despite all the crap you are told about it in the leaflets etc. If you can breastfeed, brilliant, it is the best. However, I do wish the message was as well publicised that if you don't manage it, your child will not be severely affected in a negative way!! Ok, rant over...as you can see, 8 years on, it is still a bit of a hot topic for me!! 

Sounds like you have oodles of help to hand - fabulous!! You will be just fine, just enjoy the ride and bank that sleep and relaxation now whilst you can! Parenthood is crazy, no-one can really prepare you for it, but it is wonderful fun. It takes you to the extremes of all emotions, both positive and negative, and changes your life for the better, forever!!


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

My friend is a health visitor and specialist in breastfeeding. It's not easy for something so natural and I well remember that toe curling soreness.....but am reliably informed it fades. I too gave up at six weeks, but more because my daughter rejected the breast rather than me giving in! 

My best advice.....relax. Both with your puppy and when breastfeeding. Actually relaxing is key to lots of things. Being relaxed allows better milk flow, better bonding ( puppy and baby) and happiness all round.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I did my university thesis on breast feeding amongst teenage mums. Fascinating subject. New mums should give it a go but definitely don't feel like a failure if it doesn't work out. Enjoy your new mum time, no matter what way you're feeding, you're doing great and that's the main thing!


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Breast feeding hurts like bloody hell at first but the payoff is worth it if you can do it. The pressure they put on women though is nonsense and based on statistical significance not actual outcomes for any particular baby. Over many babies there are health benefits but there are also millions of healthy bottle fed babies too.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Luckily for me I didn't really have any probs with breastfeeding, accept my son was a little and often feeder which meant loads of night feeds and me being there for him all the time - at least a dad can bottle feed! if you can do it it is nice to not have to worry about cleaning bottles, buying formula etc, I guess there are pro's and cons and like everyone says if its too hard for you then don't worry, what I hate is the attitude some young girls have that 'ugh, thats disgusting!' when it is the most natural thing in the world!! I did used to think some mums could be more discreet about it but something (hormones I guess) comes over you if you are breastfeeding which seems to stop you caring where you do it and in front of who!!!a friend and I used to compare notes on where we had breastfed that week!


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank you all for your reassurance - I hope there aren't rules about only asking for cockapoo advice, because I can totally see myself coming running to you all when I need help!! 

We went for a 3d baby scan on Wednesday, which was amazing! So clear! The photos are all on my blog

Http://bisforbaby2014.blogspot.com

I'm hoping that his little cute face will be enough to get me through whatever challenges motherhood throws at me.....

Sorry for hijacking your thread Tetley - I hope willows tummy is doing better  xxx


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Just remember Lottie that parenthood is like puppy ownership but on steroids. I bet each and every mum on here did things a little differently. The key is to trust your own instincts, they will be right for your baby and family.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Loving reading this thread - (I have so much to catch up on after a week away...)

Tetley1 - you are a fantastic puppy mum and it will get better .... we need some new Willow pictures (or have I missed some while I've been away?). You are also obvioulsy a wonderful mum to your children - hope the broken leg is meding.

Lottierachel, just keep breathing - you'll be fine and the Bean will be wondeful and there will be some moments when you feel totally overwhelmed and out of control (I still have those moments ) but just try and focus on the little things when the big picture seems too scary...
I had a friend who was a breastfeeding councellor and she said - the first time you feed him get a midwife to help so that he latches on properly and if you are in hospital for a little while get the midwife to check the baby's position each time you feed. I followed this advice and drove the midwives in the hospital crazy (I was in hospital for 5 days with my eldest !!! ) they were very relieved when I went home - but feeding him was no trouble or pain at all ever. My second son was horrendous - he was a maasai and wanted blood with his milk  I would have given up but he refused to take a bottle. Liz was always more interedted in everything else....
You'll find what works for you.
Some advice that worked for me too was to ban visitors from staying too long - when you and James are learning how to be parents, you might not want an ever present audience


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## woody89 (Sep 21, 2013)

I really remember having days/weeks when I thought what have I done when our little pup was young. It's really hard work being constantly vigilant and forever training, especially when you have family to deal with and day to day life. Stick with it as it really does get better and really focus on the lovely bits when things gets tough.

As for breastfeeding, give it a go, it really does hurt for about two weeks but if you get help it does generally get easier, but if not try not to beat yourself up about it, you and little one will be just fine bonding over a bottle!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

DB1 said:


> Luckily for me I didn't really have any probs with breastfeeding, accept my son was a little and often feeder which meant loads of night feeds and me being there for him all the time - at least a dad can bottle feed! if you can do it it is nice to not have to worry about cleaning bottles, buying formula etc, I guess there are pro's and cons and like everyone says if its too hard for you then don't worry, what I hate is the attitude some young girls have that 'ugh, thats disgusting!' when it is the most natural thing in the world!! I did used to think some mums could be more discreet about it but something (hormones I guess) comes over you if you are breastfeeding which seems to stop you caring where you do it and in front of who!!!a friend and I used to compare notes on where we had breastfed that week!


When I did the study, breast feeding was more prevalent amongst teenage mums than mums over the age of 35. The results were fascinating. I met lots of older mums who hated the idea of breast feeding. It's really a great subject to drill into with people.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Lottierachel said:


> Thank you all for your reassurance - I hope there aren't rules about only asking for cockapoo advice, because I can totally see myself coming running to you all when I need help!!
> 
> We went for a 3d baby scan on Wednesday, which was amazing! So clear! The photos are all on my blog
> 
> ...


Although I've not had children, many wise people have said this and I think it's great advice... Sleep when the baby is sleeping. Don't try to be a martyr. Take rest when it's there on a plate to take.


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

I love the journey of this thread!! Everyone has so much useful info to share - such kind support, whatever the need! Babies and puppies - lets face it, we're always going to worry a bit because we have the responsibility to look after them and we want to do the best by them but sometimes how to do that isn't always clear and is not very easy. Willow's tummy is still not right - horrible this morning. It does feel like I am living in a nightmare to be honest, so worried about the little bundle of fluff. The only good thing is that she is fine in herself, eating lots etc - but that bum - my goodness! I have collected a 3 day sample for the vets and will take it in on Monday. Going to get insurance sorted this morning before it all kicks off! Any recommendations on insurance companies? My vets plug PetPlan but they seem quite expensive?


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

So, just to update you all. My poor baby has a urinary infection  The vet asked for another sample and analysed it under the microscope. So glad I took her back to the vet again on Monday as she continued to lick herself all the time - felt like an over anxious mum at the time but clearly it paid to go. So, just as her tummy has settled down, we have thrown antibiotics into the mix - it doesn't bode well!! 7 days of 2 tablets per day. Vet said urinary infection is very common in puppies and not due to anything we have/haven't done which reassured me! So, we shall see how she goes bless her!! We have left her a couple of times going out the front door for 5-10 minutes. Now on a major mission to up this each day to prepare her for my return to work in September.


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Tetley1 said:


> So, just to update you all. My poor baby has a urinary infection  The vet asked for another sample and analysed it under the microscope. So glad I took her back to the vet again on Monday as she continued to lick herself all the time - felt like an over anxious mum at the time but clearly it paid to go. So, just as her tummy has settled down, we have thrown antibiotics into the mix - it doesn't bode well!! 7 days of 2 tablets per day. Vet said urinary infection is very common in puppies and not due to anything we have/haven't done which reassured me! So, we shall see how she goes bless her!! We have left her a couple of times going out the front door for 5-10 minutes. Now on a major mission to up this each day to prepare her for my return to work in September.


Poor Willow!! With the antibiotics, her infection will start to improve very quickly. Is her tummy still doing okay? At least you're getting to know your vet very well  x


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## Tetley1 (Jun 11, 2014)

Me and the vet, thick as thieves!!  They are doing very well out of us. To be fair, she is a really lovely lady and even didn't charge us for Monday's consultation as he said she could sort of hide it under us coming in for the microchip which is part of a yearly package we pay monthly for. Willow's bowels are much calmer now thanks but I fear that will be short lived as we have had to introduce the anti biotics and a cheeky bit of cheese twice a day to wrap her tablet in. She wolfs it down which is great - I was concerned that getting the tablets into her would be a problem but cheese has sorted that!!


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