# Weight Worry



## Alinos (May 19, 2014)

Zorro is 15 months old and weighs only 6.3kgs/13.8lbs. all his bones are sticking out. As per the vet, theres nothing wrong with him but I still worry that hes too skinny to be really healthy. 

The main cause of his skinniness is that hes just not into food. Hes completely stopped eating his kibble. I tried all kinds. Now what he will eat reluctantly is chicken and roti ( roti is whole grain unleavened bread) But that too is a hit and miss. I have started sneaking in some boiled veg into his roti. 

On a whim, I gave him some boiled chicken liver - that seems to be a hit with him. But I worry about over doing it. 

So how much is too much liver? 

My strategy right now is get him to gain a couple of kgs and then bring him back to kibble. 

Anyhoo...the main question and ask for advice is on liver. 

Thanks


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

My advice would be to swap him onto a raw diet. Then you can vary his meals, chicken one meal, beef another and so on. He will love it and soon be a more normal weight. Once he is up to weight you can miss out the odd meal just so he doesn't get complacent. My two get 225g each split over two meals with a chicken wing or neck at lunch time. Give it a go and see how you get on. Offal can be fed a couple of times a week and fish is good too.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

I had to change Beemer onto a raw diet because of that exact thing. He stopped being bony once he was on a raw diet. Opposite effect on Lexi. She leaned up on the raw diet. 


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

If your not into raw, Fairlie makes homemade food for Rufus. Perhaps she can advise you on some good recipes.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I am making home made food, but in the latest recipe I added raw carrot and the farting is almost unbearable. I am starting to wonder if I too should make the leap to raw?


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

You will get more nutrition in the raw proteins so you don't have to try to supplement as much with fruits and vegetables (which will cause the gas). 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

It's so confusing. According to my book, where most of the meat can be served raw or cooked, protein digestability is slightly lower in uncooked meat. Either way you can't omit the veg.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

They have no problems digesting raw. I actually only give vegetables as a low calorie alternative snack. My understanding is that in order for dogs to get the most out of nutrients from vegetables, you need to break it down for them via cooking, chopping up, as they don't have the enzymes to break down the cellular walls of vegetables. 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Well the carrot was very finely grated. Do Lexi and Beemer pass gas when you give them veggie treats? It might just be that carrots don't agree with Rufus. During the transition to the new diet I am adding ingredients one at a time so I can see what works and what doesn't.


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## Alinos (May 19, 2014)

Raw is really not an option due to 2 reasons. There's hardly any beef and pork available here. So it would end up being just chicken and some lamb. 
2 more imp reason is that I am a vegetarian. I barely manage to get thru boiling his chicken and liver without gagging. ( And this I do twice a week with my eyes mostly closed ) Handling more raw meat would be pushing it.  

But coming back to my earlier question. How much liver is ok on a daily basis? 


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Liver shouldn't be more than 5% of his daily intake. It isn't meant to be a primary source of food. Understandable that it's difficult being vegetarian but maybe you can find a butcher who will grind it up for you and serve it like wet food. If you can, add lamb to his diet. Can you add fish? Sardines come in a can cooked with the bones and are a full meal (calcium because of the bones). He will be healthier with the variety. he also needs a source of calcium. As I'm going to assume you don't want to feed him a raw chicken leg, you can mix into his food a raw egg, including the shell but cooking takes away the balance and you should always feed both the whites and yolk together. You can supplement his meal by grinding a mixture of vegetables and fruit (carrots, spinach, kale, celery, apple, watermelon, pineapple, blueberries). Stay away from raw potatoes (sweet potatoes ok should be cooked as they are easier to digest), onions, garlic (this is controversial but I stay away from them), broccoli heads (stalks are ok but the head contains bad things for them), asparagus, grapes, raisins. If look up whatever you want to give him to double check as I discover more foods that aren't good for them than I first knew. Fruits and vegetables also shouldn't be more than 5%. Some supplements to add - high quality fish oil, coconut oil, super green mixes (kelp & alfalfa). 

As he's underweight I'd feed about 3-3.5% of body weight (we use ounces here but you'd use grams anywhere else in the world) and then adjust accordingly based on weight gain and poop quality. 


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

fairlie said:


> Well the carrot was very finely grated. Do Lexi and Beemer pass gas when you give them veggie treats? It might just be that carrots don't agree with Rufus. During the transition to the new diet I am adding ingredients one at a time so I can see what works and what doesn't.



I've correlated their gas to the quality of their foods. I now give them food made from grass fed beef, organic chicken, as well as other variety of proteins (lamb, rabbit, duck, quail) and that has improved everything. The food comes with some fruits and vegetables mixed in but she changes that up all of the time. Really the only time they have gas or poop problems is whenever they get treats with grains or sugars in it. I give them a baby carrot as a treat along with pieces of apples, banana, watermelon, frozen green beans, and broccoli stalks as a snack in between their meals. And they rarely get gas. Once they were on raw, they never have problems with introducing anything so long as it's not a grain or processed (other than freeze dried meat). 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Well it was a store bought carrot as our own carrots are not big enough yet. It seems to be getting better, maybe it was just a matter of adjustment? The adult recipes are mostly grain free (I think) but in the transition period he is getting rice, noodles and oatmeal. It wasn't until I added the grated carrot that the gas problem started. With just the meat and grains he was fine.


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Liver should only be given a maximum of three times a week, otherwise they get to high a build up of vitamin K ( I think it's vit K, it might be A) but either way it's a bad thing!


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Cat 53 said:


> Liver should only be given a maximum of three times a week, otherwise they get to high a build up of vitamin K ( I think it's vit K, it might be A) but either way it's a bad thing!



You can give it everyday, it just needs to be in smaller amounts. Again no more than 5% either way of the total food intake. The problem with giving large amounts of liver at one setting is that it can be too rich and you have yucky poop. You should also add 5% of another offal (sweetbreads, pancreas, kidney). 



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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I appreciate you are a vegetarian but dogs are carnivores and so eat meat, unfortunately you will have to get over your issues with meat to provide the best and most suitable diet for Zorro. You feed kibble and this has meat and meat derivatives in it but it's ok as it's not processed by you? If you feed fresh raw meat, lamb and chicken are fine, then it will be a much better quality than the kibble you buy. He will flourish with the correct diet.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

As others have said liver should only make up a small percentage of the whole diet. Honestly the satisfaction you will feel about seeing Zorro gain condition on a raw diet will far outweigh your concerns about meat eating.


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Alinos have you tried to see if he will eat canned food?


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