# Questions concerning two newborn puppies and how to pick one



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

My wife and I are planning on getting a female Cockapoo puppy. We are hoping that the new puppy will be less than 16 pounds at full size so that she can travel with us inside the airplane cabin when we travel.

The breeder we have been speaking with had two pregnant American Cocker Spaniel mothers. 
First mother weighs 17.64 pounds (8kg). 
Second mother weighs 16.31 pounds (7.4kg)
The father is the same Poodle for both and he weighs 6.61 pounds (3kg)

We had initially requested a female puppy from the second mother because we assumed it was more likely that her offspring would grow to be less than 16 pounds.

The first mother gave birth to 8 puppies with 4 boys and 4 girls 9 days ago. The one girl that has not been already selected by people on the waiting list before us weighed 192 grams at birth (tied as the largest female puppy, smallest being 180 grams at birth) and is now 280 grams at day 9. I am not currently sure of the weight of the other puppies. I had previously read that a puppy should double it's birth weight in about 7-10 days. It doesn't seem like that is likely to happen with this puppy so I was wondering if that is something to be concerned about or if it just means that dog will likely be smaller at full size or not mean anything at all. 

The second mother just gave birth to a single female yesterday (no males either). That puppy weighs 200 grams. However, the breeder just contacted us and said that the mother is totally ignoring it so she is concerned there may be something wrong with the health of the puppy. This mother has had puppies before and has never rejected them before.

The breeder is now asking us if we want to take the 4th female from the first mother instead because of her concerns about the 2nd mother's single puppy. She said she doesn't want to currently offer the 2nd puppy right away until she is confident it doesn't have any issues.

Does anyone have any particular advice on if we should take the first mother's 4th female? Based on her birth weight, current weight, and parents' weights does anyone know if she is likely to be under 16 pounds? Is her current growth rate a concern?

Sorry for the long post. Any information would be very helpful. Thanks.


----------



## curt3007 (May 28, 2011)

Personally I don't think it's an exact science so to speak. Most of us on her have pups between 6kg approx and 16kg, so certainly most are bigger than 16 lbs. Think you would need maybe to go for something smaller like a cavapoo. Maybe others cam shed some light on your post, good luck


----------



## Soo (Dec 16, 2011)

I have no idea about birth weights versus adult weights but as Peppa was the runt in her litter and is pretty small at the moment I have been told by my vet that she will still prob end up as big as the rest of her litter at maturity.

Are the mums American cockers? I know that the smallest cockapoo comes from an american cocker and a toy poodle but I dont know what the average adult weight for them is.

All the best with your hunt.


----------



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Soo,

Yes, the mothers are American Cockers. The weight range from the 8 pups from the one mother was pretty small. The smallest puppy was 180 grams at birth and the largest was 198 grams.

Here is actually the website of the breeder where she has posted pictures of all the puppies from the first mother. The one female that is still available is #6 at the bottom.

http://www.geocities.jp/flowermoon_cw/cockapoo/cockapoobabymugi20120128/cockapoobabymugi20120128.htm


----------



## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

That was interesting - it appears to be in Japanese!
Sophie, I do not think you will be able to guarantee the adult weight of the puppies. Perhaps a better starting point though would be to try to research weights of adult cockapoos, rather than the Cockers and Poodle adults. As someone pointed out, the cockapoos on this forum vary, but that is using mixes of 3 different types of cocker, and 2 types of poodle. Perhaps the cockerpoo club in the U.S. may be able to advise?
Good luck with your research.


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi, the best person to advise you of the likely size of the pup is your breeder. They will probably have kept in touch with atleast some of the previous puppies they have bred and should have an idea of what the puppies grow in to.
American cocker x toy poodle will give you the best chance of a smaller cockapoo but you will not be able predict exactly just how much your adult dog will end up weighing.
Good luck.


----------



## Soo (Dec 16, 2011)

Total Japanese so I dont have a clue what it said. The pups are so newborne they all look alike too.

As Ali says and I said previously, its not the pups current weight that matters but the weight they will be as adults. Perhaps the breeder could put you in contact with owners of pups from previous litters from this mating to see what their adult size is? 

You will need to do your research and I think the breeder is the first place to start.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

Inca wasa our smalist pup i think and she is second biggest out of our girls Where as Gypsy was a big puppy but is out smallist. so it can go eitherway. how big are the pairents. 


when do you have to make a decission by? is their any way you can hold off till the 2nd puppy is older before making the dessision?


----------



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Kendal,

Annoyingly, it seems that with breeders in Japan you don't really get much time to decide. I find it silly that 3 of the dogs have already been picked when you can't even tell what they will look like, but that is the way things are done over there. 

The breeder we have been speaking with had two pregnant American Cocker Spaniel mothers. 
First mother weighs 17.64 pounds (8kg). (the one with 8 puppies)
Second mother weighs 16.31 pounds (7.4kg) (the one with 1 puppy)
The father is the same Poodle for both and he weighs 6.61 pounds (3kg)

This first mother is new so the breeder has no previous experience to judge the weights of the puppies with. 
The father is also new.
The second mother has produced puppies in the past and that is why the breeder originally thought that might be a better fit. She thought if the second mother had a smaller female puppy we could have that one as there would be a a pretty good chance of it being smaller than 16 pounds. However, she only had one puppy and it is 200grams, which is actually the largest of all of the puppies from the two mothers. Her other concern was that since it had no litter mates it might grow larger since it would have no competition. However, since the mother is ignoring the single puppy I'm not really sure how that would work out in practice.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

i know of a pup who was born as an only pup but his owner has his full brether from a litter 2 years older than him. im sure he reeched the same size as his brother is a littl shorter. 


i think your going to have to go with your gut. 


we picked out Echo at only a day old from photos but for us it was markings as her and her sister were the only 2 black and white pups (we had been waiting about a year for a black and white) so i have picked from a very young age and only from photos but never had to judge on size other than Delta but for me at was working out if she was going to bee too small compaired to my other girls. 

but i do think your just going to have to go with what you feel is right.


----------



## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Hi There,im a hobbyist breeder and when breeding english miniature cockapoos i find the average weight at birth is 9 oz( approx 250g) and their adult weight is approx 26-35lb so i think these pups are going to be bigger than 16 pounds xxx


----------



## curt3007 (May 28, 2011)

Are you saying you are buying from Japan, do you live there or are you from the UK


----------



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

We are moving to Japan. 



mandym said:


> Hi There,im a hobbyist breeder and when breeding english miniature cockapoos i find the average weight at birth is 9 oz( approx 250g) and their adult weight is approx 26-35lb so i think these pups are going to be bigger than 16 pounds xxx



Mandy, what size parents do you use when the puppies are that size? Also, do you find that the puppies do tend to double their weight in 7-10 days after birth? I'm wondering if going from 192 to 280 grams in 9 days would be considered a normal rate of growth or not.


----------



## lola24 (Aug 14, 2011)

Lola was 369g at birth eek and the biggest in the litter....... she was the smallest by 8 weeks (the boys GREW!!), at 7 months she is 8.9kg and still the smallest of the litter.

she is mini x english working


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I may not be popular for saying this - but if under 16 pounds is critical as it seems to be I think you should be looking at breeds which are always under this size rather than a crossbreed where the size can vary. 

Have you met the breeder? What health tests have been done? How are the pups raised? All these should be far more important questions than guessing the future size.

A friend of mine had a litter of pups a few years ago (not crossbred) and the smallest pup ended up as the largest adult so there are no guarantees at all.


----------



## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

The parents are approx 14-15kg xxx


----------



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

2ndhandgal,

Thanks for your message. We already have a Cockapoo that we love very much and that is the reason we want another one. Our current Cockapoo is 6kg (13 pounds) and is full grown. We plan to meet with the breeder soon. She has a very good reputation and has been incredibly responsive. There aren't many Cockapoo breeders in Japan so we are lucky she is relatively nearby.


----------



## Dee123 (Aug 20, 2011)

Hi Sophie,

If mom is 17 pounds and dad is just 13 pounds, it's unlikely pup will be bigger than mom. Likely range 15-16 pounds is usual. Growth rate varies per pup at different stages. Being a big puppy doesn't mean big adult. 

As for the single pup from second mom, probably best to listen to breeders concerns and steer clear for now.


----------



## sophie12 (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks, Dee123.

Actually, the Father is 6.6 pounds. We ended up going with the last remaining available female from the first mom. I kind of doubt she gets over 16 pounds as well. It's possible, but I will be surprised.

I was just told she weighs 298 grams at 10 days old. That means she gained 18 grams from the 9th day to the 10th and gained on average 10.6 grams a day since her birth. The breeder said to expect her weight to have about doubled from her birth weight at 2 weeks. She also said her previous puppies have generally weighed 1 to 1.2kg (2.2 to 2.65 pounds) at 50 days old, though those were with different parents. The breeder said she would send pictures and weight updates ever week so that should be fun. Once the puppy gets to 10 weeks old I'll be able to compare her to our current Cockapoo since that is when we received her.


----------

