# Changing food



## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

I've decided I want to change Obi's food over to Orijen (and may even go BARF at some point, still thinking about it) but not sure how to go about doing it? He's currently still having what the breeder had him on which is James Wellbeloved puppy kibble mixed with Butchers Choice tinned Tripe Loaf. I hate the smell of the wet food (and Obi's resulting wind!) so have been trying to cut that back but notice he won't eat the kibble without it and his poo's are a lot runnier. When I switch to Orijen I want to cut out the tins altogether. Any advice on how to do this would be much appreciated!

Thanks 
Clare


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi Clare. It is recommended to change gradually, over a week or two, mixing the new food with the old food and gradually increasing the proportion of the new brand. You may find the same problem with the Orijen, that Obi won't eat it on it's own, so you could either moisten it a little or mix in a small amount of something like Nature Diet, which is a natural wet food that comes in pouches. Also, if you want to try Natural Instinct, I'll bring you some to the meet-up so you can see how Obi reacts to it.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Mine liked the smell of Orijens, so hopefully it might entice him to eat it, but once Helen has given you the NI you'll be sold. x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> Mine liked the smell of Orijens, so hopefully it might entice him to eat it, but once Helen has given you the NI you'll be sold. x


Agree - I would never in a zillion years have had myself down as a BARF dog feeder but using NI it's no more problem than putting down a bowl of kibble and the benefits are amazing.

I always used to have to entice Flo to eat her JW and Orijen kibble by mixing in a little Nature Diet but that's all now a thing of the past - I put down the NI, tease her with a few waits and downs, then she's right in there and enjoying it. She's trimmed down, has a much softer coat, has no doggy smell (the Nature Diet fish did make her pong a bit) and her poos are almost non existent.


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## MichelleE (Apr 2, 2011)

Glad you asked about this Clare, as I was thinking of doing the same thing. Poppy is on Royal Canin at the moment, but I want to make the switch to Orijen before going onto Natural Instinct once she is on 2 meals a day. Can you let me know how you get on?


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

with Gypsy and Inca i did the gradual change as Gypsy was so fussy, but with Echo and Delta it was a case of the first day with us on their puppy food from the breeder, the next strate onto raw. i feel like the gradual change is just drawing it out. where as the quick change gets it over and done with, cant think of any problems with the switch over.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

I switched Lady from Royal Canin to a different kibble right away....then I changed her onto inova gradually...she likes it but isn't overly interested in it...I will likely switch her to Orijen as soon as this bag is close to the end. we had no problems with switching her either way.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I think it all depends on your dog. Rosie is so sensitive that even a few pieces of Orijen in her food made her tummy really upset (yet sheep poo has no effect whatsoever!). I really hope that NI is a bit easier to introduce. I've just found a stockist literally aournd the corner from my office, so I feel that someone is trying to tell me something!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

weez74 said:


> I think it all depends on your dog. Rosie is so sensitive that even a few pieces of Orijen in her food made her tummy really upset (yet sheep poo has no effect whatsoever!). I really hope that NI is a bit easier to introduce. I've just found a stockist literally aournd the corner from my office, so I feel that someone is trying to tell me something!


When I ordered my NI the lady who answered the phone and took the order was very knowledgeable and had lots of advice. It also seemed that she knew a lot about dogs with sensitive tummys and allergies - they must get lots of owners moving onto their food with dogs who are intolerant or allergic to ingredients in other tinned foods and kibbles.

Maybe call their main number for advice about making the switch 01276 608500.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Great idea Mandy ... yes she was lovely and very approachable, Im sure she'd answer any queries.x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> Great idea Mandy ... yes she was lovely and very approachable, Im sure she'd answer any queries.x


When I ordered she actually asked if my dog had any allergies or stomach problems before taking the order. She said it was a family business and I think she was part of the 'family'. She also talked at length about her own dogs feeding and said they had just taken delivery of turkeys from a new supplier and that they would be having one themselves for Sunday dinner!!


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I wonder how many other pet food producers would be happy to eat the meat that goes into their product!!!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

weez74 said:


> I wonder how many other pet food producers would be happy to eat the meat that goes into their product!!!


Quite - that's what gave me the confidence to go for it. If the chicken mince didn't have ground bone in it I would happily cook and serve it up to the kids. The texture of their minced meat is properly 'meaty' in texture and better than some of the cheap/basic supermarket ranges that are really slimey and mushy.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

They are also really fair with their pricing. Twice now they have put their turkey products on sale at £2 per kilo pack (instead of £2.90) as they have got the turkey at a good price.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Dylansmum said:


> They are also really fair with their pricing. Twice now they have put their turkey products on sale at £2 per kilo pack (instead of £2.90) as they have got the turkey at a good price.


Oh I'll check that out right now - passing on price drops as well - so not like Gas, Electric and Petrol then!!


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I just missed the offer last time, but got some this time. Dylan doesn't seem to care whether it's chicken or turkey. I find the only visible difference is that the turkey seems just a little firmer and drier in texture.


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

My only issue is the cost! How much Natural Instinct would I need to feed Obi daily? He is approx 2kg at the moment. Do you buy it in bulk and store in the freezer? My freezer is not big.

I do have a butcher at the end of my road so I'm going to pop in and find out if he has any bones.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jedicrazy said:


> My only issue is the cost! How much Natural Instinct would I need to feed Obi daily? He is approx 2kg at the moment. Do you buy it in bulk and store in the freezer? My freezer is not big.
> 
> I do have a butcher at the end of my road so I'm going to pop in and find out if he has any bones.


They recommend 1%-3% of an adult dogs body weight. Flo is 11kg and has 200g a day which works out at 54p a day - when I worked it out it was much cheaper to feed NI than feeding a premium kibble (Origen).

A puppy should have 4%-6% of body weight so that will be around 100g or 27p a day.

Bones from butchers are very cheap and sometime free. If they have NI they don't need bones as part of their diet just for recreation and teeth cleaning so maybe 1 or 2 bones per week.

For my first order I bought 10 x 1kg boxes which I store in a seperate small chest freezer. Each box a just a little bigger than a supermarket tray of mince.

I have found the best way to organise myself is to partially defrost a tray in the fridge over night then cut it into 10 pieces then refreeze. I then defrost two portions over night for the following day. It can be refrozen if only partially defrosted. I prefer it being freshly defrosted for each day instead of having a box of it in the fridge over 5 days.

If you decide to go for it then PM Dylansmum for her full name. If you place a first order by phone she'll get £5 off her next order and you'll also get £5 off


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks Embee! Actually, that's very reasonable and as you say cheaper than Orijen.

I'm going to mull over it all (I have read these posts too much now LOL) at the weekend but I'm 95% sure i'm going to go with NI after the current JWB bag is finished. If it's good for Obi and ensures less and nicer smelling poos than I can't go wrong, can I? I'm finding it so hard to keep the garden poo free (he does so many!) and with young kids and their friends outside all the time it's a nightmare. 

I'll definitely be in touch with Dylansmum if I do got for it. 

Thanks everyone


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

embee said:


> Bones from butchers are very cheap and sometime free. If they have NI they don't need bones as part of their diet just for recreation and teeth cleaning so maybe 1 or 2 bones per week.


Just picked up 1kg of raw meaty lamb bones (quite a bit of meat on) from the butcher for £1.80 so much cheaper than NI's lamb neck or ribs. Gave her a small one (I know, I should have waited till her teatime - but her little face when I brought the bag in and she could smell it was too much) and she ate the whole thing in about 30 minutes. The lamb bone is quite soft so they can eat it easily. The beef bones are much harder and Flo gnaws on it for days without getting very much off at all - I think I'll keep a bit and fashion a new tooth for Ivan from it and he can stick it in with the dental cement that Kendal recommended (a long story - see the barf thread)

Now you carnivore types probably know that kind of stuff but it's a whole new world to me. Bought myself two veggie samosas while I was there


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't buy bones from NI - very pricey, although I think their turkey carcasses seem reasonable. On their site they list some suppliers who stock their food and I noticed a mobile delivery service who cover London and surrounding areas. Their bones are more reasonably priced.


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Right, I've decided to go for Natural Instinct. 

Dylansmum, would you mind PM'ing me with what I need from you when I ring them to get our discounts?

Finally, a question about training treats. I'd like to start giving Obi liver and chicken as training treats. Can these be cooked at home and frozen or should I keep them raw? 

Thanks
Clare


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

no harm in cooking them, carrining around raw treats like that isnt always easy and can be a littl messy. 

just remember they only need a little bits, you dont want to fill him pu on treats.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

I use dehydrated liver and chicken! Great for training treats!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jedicrazy said:


> Finally, a question about training treats. I'd like to start giving Obi liver and chicken as training treats. Can these be cooked at home and frozen or should I keep them raw?


There's quite a few options for carb free/grain free training treats.

Pet shops sell dried liver strips in yellow net bags that are really good and you can snap small bits of as you need them.

Wainwrights also do freeze dried pure chicken and duck (Pets at Home stocks it) although the texture is very light and dry (a little like quavers) so they do tend to crumble a bit.

I'm also using Orijen kibble as training treats for Flo just a small bag is much cheaper than buying 100g 'treats' in bags.

You can also get lambs liver from a supermarket or butcher then microwave before cutting into small pea sized chunks and storing frozen - though it did make the microwave pong a bit for a while after.


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

embee said:


> There's quite a few options for carb free/grain free training treats.
> 
> Pet shops sell dried liver strips in yellow net bags that are really good and you can snap small bits of as you need them.
> 
> ...



lol our house stinks when my mum has made a couple of batches of livercake for class. you can even smell it before you get to the house, so far the Neighbors havent complained lol.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Liver cake stinks but works... my daughter says shes nearly sick when I make it... not the sort of smell if your trying to sell your house x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

If you're ordering NI they also have dehydrated lambs liver in the treat section if you don't want to risk alienating friends, family and neighbours cooking your own.


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Called in to the butchers today and picked up a marrow bone for £1. It's probably to big for him but Obi is currently tucking in to it. There's not a lot of meat on it but it's keeping him very occupied  

I also enquired about minced up meat/bone and he sells it for a £1 per 1lb pack which is about 450kg. So I might start off with NI and then move on to making my own. Not sure...I seem to remember reading in one of the BARF posts that someone was already cooking up their own veg etc. Who was that??? Would like to get your advice.

Thanks 
Clare


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Jukee Dudles I think


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Dexter showed very little interest in his Beta food that we brought home from the breeders. I tried him on Origen and he loved it. He is already on Origen all the time now after only 3 days and it hasn't upset him at all.


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

tessybear said:


> Dexter showed very little interest in his Beta food that we brought home from the breaders. I tried him on Origen and he loved it. He is already on Origen all the time now after only 3 days and it hasn't upset him at all.


That's good news Tessy. It's good to know that you've made the right choice to change. I'm really excited to get going with Natural Instinct. My only worry is freezer space. I wonder if the kids will notice if the ice-cream disappears? :decision:


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

I suspect they would! I will go onto natural instinct eventually too.


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

lol we have a freezer just for the dogs food.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Yeh ... so have I , Ive been talking to the woman from NI today she says she's going to check out our threads x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

lady amanda said:


> Jukee Dudles I think


and Wilfiboy


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Jedicrazy said:


> Called in to the butchers today and picked up a marrow bone for £1. It's probably to big for him but Obi is currently tucking in to it. There's not a lot of meat on it but it's keeping him very occupied
> 
> I also enquired about minced up meat/bone and he sells it for a £1 per 1lb pack which is about 450kg. So I might start off with NI and then move on to making my own. Not sure...I seem to remember reading in one of the BARF posts that someone was already cooking up their own veg etc. Who was that??? Would like to get your advice.
> 
> ...


Those big marrow bones are great - Dylan enjoys those for weeks and he manages to carry the huge ones around the house somehow! 
As regards veg, strictly speaking for barf they are fed raw rather than cooked, but the nutrients aren't very accessible for dogs, although the fibre will be a benefit. NI double-grind them to make the nutrients more accessible. Also there is salmon oil and sea kelp added. If you want to do your own barf food then you could look at adding some supplements too. I did actually look into a home-cooked diet some time ago, but was put off by the fact that it was strongly advised to do blood profiles yearly to check that the dog was getting appropriate nutrition. The same didn't apply to a raw diet.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jedicrazy said:


> I also enquired about minced up meat/bone and he sells it for a £1 per 1lb pack which is about 450kg.


Did you mean £1 for 450g?? Ni is only £2.70 for 1kg and the turkey is even cheaper so there's not a lot in it by the time you prepare the veg and other supplements to add to the minced meat/bone. They also make sure that the meat and bone is in the correct proportion.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Hi Sarah .... sorry missed your question... made my patties today.Bought chicken carcuss from the butcher which he minced for me then bought spinach, celery,carrots apple,tomatoes put them raw through a food processor then added eggs with shell, probiotic yogurt and hemp oil (I think you can add any cold pressed oil) but there are certainly a few you can use, and kelp powder from health food shop and then wizzed this with a hand blender in a big pan..... added this to the mincein a washing up bowl and then froze into portions. The meat for 5kg was £3.50... and have got loads, but you could make up accordingly. You can also add cottage cheese and liver but my liver was frozen so thats next time....if you pm me your address I can send you more info .. but the recipe is from "Grow Your Pup with Bones" by Dr Ian Billinghurst.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> Hi Sarah .... sorry missed your question... made my patties today.Bought chicken carcuss from the butcher which he minced for me then bought spinach, celery,carrots apple,tomatoes put them raw through a food processor then added eggs with shell, probiotic yogurt and hemp oil (I think you can add any cold pressed oil) but there are certainly a few you can use, and kelp powder from health food shop and then wizzed this with a hand blender in a big pan..... added this to the mincein a washing up bowl and then froze into portions. The meat for 5kg was £3.50... and have got loads, but you could make up accordingly. You can also add cottage cheese and liver but my liver was frozen so thats next time....if you pm me your address I can send you more info .. but the recipe is from "Grow Your Pup with Bones" by Dr Ian Billinghurst.


WOWIE! what lucky pooches you have Karen!


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Ive got your address ... Lady might end up with some lol x


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## caradunne (Nov 29, 2010)

Do NI use whole chickens or the carcass?


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow. Sounds great Karen. You've really done your homework. If you're going to do DIY barf then that's the way to do it. Fantastic! But I'm far too lazy - I'll stick with the easy option


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

OMG Wilfiboy, you are a BARF hero  I'm also feeling very lazy in comparison.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Its what I used to make when Wilf was little but then he went off it ..... here s hoping this time think I'll be ok with greedy Mable.Just looked you can use Flax seed oil and linseed oil,cabbage,green leafy veg, root veg, sugar beet andripe fruit oranges, pears, bananas x


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

lol i am only just starting to ad veg, i just need to get a food prosseser as the blender just isnt good enouf.


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Blimey Karen I feel so inadequate I don't even do that for my own children! I am very impressed!


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Children get those turkey twistlers that Jamie Oliver loves .....


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

embee said:


> Did you mean £1 for 450g?? Ni is only £2.70 for 1kg and the turkey is even cheaper so there's not a lot in it by the time you prepare the veg and other supplements to add to the minced meat/bone. They also make sure that the meat and bone is in the correct proportion.


Hi Mandy, it wasn't really a price thing, more lack of freezer space for buying in bulk from NI. I have an american style fridge freezer which has a great size fridge but a pathetic size freezer because there's a wate/ice dispenser that takes up half the room! Won't be going for that style again in the future :smash: I figured if I could make up my own I could go with fresh but I'd be worried about getting the nutrient mix right especially while he is a puppy so I may go down the route of a separate freezer. Next question is, if i do that, where do I put it?


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Hi Sarah .... sorry missed your question... made my patties today.Bought chicken carcuss from the butcher which he minced for me then bought spinach, celery,carrots apple,tomatoes put them raw through a food processor then added eggs with shell, probiotic yogurt and hemp oil (I think you can add any cold pressed oil) but there are certainly a few you can use, and kelp powder from health food shop and then wizzed this with a hand blender in a big pan..... added this to the mincein a washing up bowl and then froze into portions. The meat for 5kg was £3.50... and have got loads, but you could make up accordingly. You can also add cottage cheese and liver but my liver was frozen so thats next time....if you pm me your address I can send you more info .. but the recipe is from "Grow Your Pup with Bones" by Dr Ian Billinghurst.


You're very dedicated Karen  You're the person I was thinking of who made their own at home. How did you know what mix of meat/bone/veg/mins/vits there should be? Is it in the recipe? I'll have look for that book. Thanks!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jedicrazy said:


> Hi Mandy, it wasn't really a price thing, more lack of freezer space for buying in bulk from NI. I have an american style fridge freezer which has a great size fridge but a pathetic size freezer because there's a wate/ice dispenser that takes up half the room! Won't be going for that style again in the future :smash: I figured if I could make up my own I could go with fresh but I'd be worried about getting the nutrient mix right especially while he is a puppy so I may go down the route of a separate freezer. Next question is, if i do that, where do I put it?


We've just got a small chest freezer (about the size of a regular fridge) in the garage.


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