# Artical about crossbreeds in Dogs Today



## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

The article is by Jemima Harrison, journalist / TV producer best known for making _Pedigree Dogs Exposed,_ the BBC film highlighting health problems and welfare problems in pedigree dogs.
The article is about pedigree dog breeders reaction to crosses, in it she points out that Poodle crosses are more popular than the Poodle itself, and she has been blamed for the popularity for crosses regardless that the designer dog market was thriving before her film.
She gives two quote.

From the Poodle Club Website. "It has been agreed at our AGM that Members, or those causing detriment to the breed by crossbreeding with other breeds are not considered suitable for membership, as they do not have the breed at heart."

And on the Miniature Poodle Club website. "The club does NOT support the interbreeding of Poodles with other breeds...Please do not embarrass us by asking for advice on this matter." 

Does this mean that in the future good stud dogs will be hard to find for both breeders and hobby breeders. If so this would have a devastating affect on our favourite breed.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

This has been strongly discussed on another forum. For those who don't know Jemima's production company made the program Pedigree Dogs Exposed, highlighting the health and welfare issues of pedigree dogs (breeding and showing). Owners and breeders within the pedigree world felt that this program was not balanced as it didn't represent the good breeders. The feeling is that her program 'turned people off' to pedigrees from decent breeders overnight as people felt they were actually better off going to places like puppy farms. It is also thought by some quarters that this created the demand for crossbreeds as these were considered healthier than pedigrees. Jemima joined in the debate within this thread and it was very interesting. 

There are some pedigree breeders who are very passionate about there breeds, just like we are about Cockapoos and they do everything they can to keep their lines healthy and care about the temperament of their dogs. For these breeders the thought of one of their dogs then going to cross breeding kind of goes against everything they have set out to achieve. 

I can understand their point of view. However, it wont be a problem for Cockapoos as;

a)not all breeders will hold this opinion
b)once a dog has been sold even if under contract, there is nothing to stop the new owner breeding from it. If there were restrictions imposed by the contract it only means that if they breed without permission the subsequent litters couldn't be registered with the Kennel club unless the restrictions were lifted by the original breeder. Obviously this doesn't matter with Cockapoos as they are a cross breed and do not get registered.

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong in this debate but I can see all sides.  

She is now making a follow up program I believe.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I would like to read her article, is the magazine online or do you have to buy it? 

- I have bought it, have to wait for it to arrive now.


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

Dogs Today is a monthly, sold at Pets at Home, Tesco, W H Smith etc. 
Jemima's article are always a good read as she is passionate about dog welfare. Ive been reading the magazine for years. She is not just writing about Poodle crosses in this article but crosses in general. I just found the quotes interesting as over the last two years I have been verbally abused twice by Poodle breeders at dog shows for having a Cockapoo. Earlier this year was told I was a disgrace to dog owners for owning such an abomination of a cross. She did make a fool of herself and did try to apologise to me later but I just walked away from her. 
Many years ago I was involved in the strange world of dog showing and know first hand how passionate pedigree club members are about their breed. . Yes, I was a breed snob, however, I would not want to go down that road again.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

We have recently had a new experience which backs up Sarah's thought that not all breeders will feel the same as the breed societies. We are looking for replacement working cocker spaniel breeding bitches and I contacted a breeder in Scotland who had a beautiful blue roan Optigen A tested 6 month old bitch for sale. I was open about who we were and that we intended to breed Cockapoo's from her. The seller replied, thanking us for our honesty and checked us out and was happy to sell to us. She had already been WARNED about us apparently by e-mail along the lines of - don't sell to Jukee Doodles as they are cross breeders. Her response to us was that the fact that we were so up-front with her meant she was able to make her own decision on whether we were going to offer the dog a good responsible home. 

Julia xx


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

Over my travels I have found the Cocker fraternity have no problem with Cockapoos and most think they make a great cross.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

strof51 said:


> Dogs Today is a monthly, sold at Pets at Home, Tesco, W H Smith etc.
> Jemima's article are always a good read as she is passionate about dog welfare. Ive been reading the magazine for years. She is not just writing about Poodle crosses in this article but crosses in general. I just found the quotes interesting as over the last two years I have been verbally abused twice by Poodle breeders at dog shows for having a Cockapoo. Earlier this year was told I was a disgrace to dog owners for owning such an abomination of a cross. She did make a fool of herself and did try to apologise to me later but I just walked away from her.
> Many years ago I was involved in the strange world of dog showing and know first hand how passionate pedigree club members are about their breed. . Yes, I was a breed snob, however, I would not want to go down that road again.


How awful for you!  Thankfully even if people have disagreed with crosses nothing has ever been said to me yet. I always half expect it though when someone asks me what Daisy is. It would nice not to feel like this but at the end of the day I respect others points of views but I do not care what they think.


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## JulesB (Mar 6, 2011)

strof51 said:


> Over my travels I have found the Cocker fraternity have no problem with Cockapoos and most think they make a great cross.


I've found this too as a couple of people i know with working cockers have just loved Betty and think cockapoo's are a great cross. But agree about the experience you had with snobby poodle owners as have had met a couple who don't get why i chose a cockapoo over a poodle and have slagged off cockapoos.

to each their own!! we know how fab our dogs are!! x


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## Happyad (Oct 5, 2010)

The article is good. 
And if I was a poodle or cocker breeder who had invested many many years in producing, sound, healthy dogs I'd probably be upset that a new trend is setting the unscrupulous of breeding dogs.
Somehow we need to get to a position where the official fraternity of cockapoos are communicating with these groups about our commitment to producing healthy, sound, balanced dogs. 
Without the good dogs from these groups we are limiting our starting point. 
We need the breeds to understand that there is a serious element to the cockapoo not just a fad


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Happyad said:


> The article is good.
> And if I was a poodle or cocker breeder who had invested many many years in producing, sound, healthy dogs I'd probably be upset that a new trend is setting the unscrupulous of breeding dogs.
> Somehow we need to get to a position where the official fraternity of cockapoos are communicating with these groups about our commitment to producing healthy, sound, balanced dogs.
> Without the good dogs from these groups we are limiting our starting point.
> We need the breeds to understand that there is a serious element to the cockapoo not just a fad


I agree completely with everything you have said. For some getting the best poodle puppy to be a future stud for breeding might mean going to a small Poodle breeder with years of experience and care put into their lines who would probably want her 'best' dog to not be used by a cross breeder however, they might not mind their second best for example! Alternatively you are then looking at breeders who might not have the experience and knowledge and KC registration but breed nice (maybe health tested?) Poodles (and loads of other breeders in between!). We have argued before that if the pedigree breeders keep their best puppies then cross breeders will always struggle in this area.

In order to show the breed clubs and the pedigree or anti crossbreeding camp that we are serious about Cockapoos,their health and breeding we do need things like an official club. By demonstrating that it is not just about putting two dogs together, that we care about breeding healthy dogs, understand about health issues of both breeds and want our cross to be of good temperament we would get more people on our side. At the moment the general view is that Cockapoos are a trend that cost too much and are bred unethically. Some of us are already working hard at showing that yes, there might be some people out there who are like that but some of us are taking this all very seriously.

M&Ms Mummy and I have managed to convince some that there are people who are passionate about Cockapoos and care deeply about good breeding but unfortunately none of them are Poodle breeders! 

Things that will help improve the situation are a club with some kind of code of ethics and a register to start recording the history of breeding, health tests etc. 

The other problem Adam is, who is the official Cockapoo fraternity?  A club is apparently coming, but we know nothing about it, who has set it up, who decided what this club's aim was, is there a breeder rated scheme, if so how will breeders be checked, has someone decided to include a Cockapoo standard etc etc etc ???? It is all a bit of a mystery and I for one am waiting with baited breath! Personally I think for a UK club to have been set up there should have been more consultation with owners and breeders, maybe there has, I don't know? 

I do know however, that I am pooped, so if this is a waffly post I apologise  my brain is very fuzzy tonight. x


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Happyad said:


> The article is good.
> And if I was a poodle or cocker breeder who had invested many many years in producing, sound, healthy dogs I'd probably be upset that a new trend is setting the unscrupulous of breeding dogs.
> Somehow we need to get to a position where the official fraternity of cockapoos are communicating with these groups about our commitment to producing healthy, sound, balanced dogs.
> Without the good dogs from these groups we are limiting our starting point.
> We need the breeds to understand that there is a serious element to the cockapoo not just a fad


I have had numerous debates over this on another forum 
I have raised the point that if people want ethical cross breeding and for crossbreeders to raise their standards of dogs produced then they must allow them to be able to purchase good breeding dogs, or use good quality studs.

Just because you want to crossbreed doesn't mean you want or should cross the worst examples 

How on earth can crossbreeders ever be given the chance if people will not sell their dogs to them? or allow their studs to be used? the only way for a lot ( not all) is to be underhand.

The answers I got back was :

Why should they? why should some-one who has spent years investing and researching their lines to produced the best dogs then sell them to people who do not keep them pure but crossbreed them.

Many don't agree with crossbreeding for the pet market full stop.

Some do reluctantly accept that there is a need for breeders to breed for the pet market and some reluctantly agree that cross breeding is here to stay.

I have always been a person who wishes there wasn't such a pedigree versus crossbreed divide but that all sides worked together, so that the best breeding practices were adhered to and the best dogs produced .

By working together and educating the public it will hopefully have a huge impact on the decline of puppy farmers and BYB's.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sarah think I was writing my post as you were doing yours!!! 


Oh and one of the pictures on the article of 3 cockapoos was a member on another forum me and Sarah use who did a thread all happy about it!!

Only for her thread to be completely over run by people who are anti dogs today mag and anti Jemima and the poor OP hardly had any positive comments about her dogs pictures and/or the article.

I did of course


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> Sarah think I was writing my post as you were doing yours!!!
> 
> 
> Oh and one of the pictures on the article of 3 cockapoos was a member on another forum me and Sarah use who did a thread all happy about it!!
> ...


Hmmmm, see your post was less waffly than mine!  

I didn't realise it was the same article! I hope I have the right issue coming! 

I need sleep, 6am is too close for my liking. xxxxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sezra said:


> Hmmmm, see your post was less waffly than mine!
> 
> I didn't realise it was the same article! I hope I have the right issue coming!
> 
> I need sleep, 6am is too close for my liking. xxxxx


I'm talking about the OCT issue? about crossbreeds? with pictures of cockapoos??? Haven't got the mag but just had a quick nosey at the picture of her dogs.
Ha ha hope it's the same issue!!! I'm tired too 

Anyway the main points are we debate this loads  Dogstoday Mag is hated by a lot of pedigree owners  as is Jemima  and Freddiesmum on PF whose cockapoos were featured in dogtoday looked cute!!!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> I'm talking about the OCT issue? about crossbreeds? with pictures of cockapoos??? Haven't got the mag but just had a quick nosey at the picture of her dogs.
> Ha ha hope it's the same issue!!! I'm tired too


I am sure it is I am just not with it at the moment, I thought maybe she had written another one! I feel terrible today, don't want to work, dreading my exam, I have just found out today that I need to do a compulsory activity on my next course which I am already two weeks behind on and I have no idea when I am going to do this, need to run away somewhere....any suggestions? :cry2:


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

Yes its the October edition of dogs today that my post is about. The magazine does print some controversial articles at times but is always a good read for the dog person. Jemima's articles are alway thought provoking. In the the same issue Jamima explains the coefficient of inbreeding that is used in the magazines puppy guide.
Another monthly contributer is Victoria Stilwell with an article about child safety another good read.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

strof51 said:


> Yes its the October edition of dogs today that my post is about. The magazine does print some controversial articles at times but is always a good read for the dog person. Jemima's articles are alway thought provoking. In the the same issue Jamima explains the coefficient of inbreeding that is used in the magazines puppy guide.
> Another monthly contributer is Victoria Stilwell with an article about child safety another good read.


 When the owner of the cockapoos and labradoodle whose picture they used ( a group of 3 ) put a thread up on another forum about it- it actually brought Jemima onto the debate.

One of her cockapoos featured in one of the pictures a cream one called Darcy was a rescue cockapoo from Many Tears.


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

She should have been proud of her dogs they all look great in the pictures.


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