# PRA Test



## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Has anyone else heard of or had their dog tested for PRA by PRCDTEST.COM which are part of Genomia?? I knew Betty's dad was PRA clear but have just
gone through her papers again and seen it was not done by Optigen.
I have a certificate saying he was clear but looking on their website does not
fill be with confidence.Wonder if I should be worried.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi Colin ... please don’t worry..

Betty is a pet, and a pet can have one parent who is a carrier or affected, as long as the other parent is DNA clear, then Betty will only ever be Clear or a Carrier.. so don’t worry, having a pet as a carrier or clear is fine . Have a look at you paperwork and let me know what you have got there for her parents or even grandparents. 

Optigen tests come on quite an official certificate ... and BVA eye tests look more like a checklist type form .. I can try and scan some in if you want to see them  just don’t worry please 

I am not sure about that site for testing as I have not used them, I would only use Optigen testing for my dogs ..


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hi JoJo

Thanks, just a bit concerned as most on here have used Optigen for testing.This company is based in Slovakia so wonder as to their reliability/legitamcy.Would it poss to scan you the result I got for you to take 
a peek at ( cheeky I know!!). Appreciate your help as always


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

No probs at all .. I will help if I can .. I am no expert but I want to try to reassure if I can  Email them to me Colin or even scan & post them on here so a few of us can have a look ... any health tests you have for parents regarding PRA would be good ..

If you are not sure .. you can always have Betty DNA tested yourself via Optigen, I know it is terrible, you shouldn’t need to do it... that is the breeders job really .. but it may give you peace of mind xxx


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

JoJo said:


> No probs at all .. I will help if I can .. I am no expert but I want to try to reassure if I can  Email them to me Colin or even scan & post them on here so a few of us can have a look ... any health tests you have for parents regarding PRA would be good ..
> 
> If you are not sure .. you can always have Betty DNA tested yourself via Optigen, I know it is terrible, you shouldn’t need to do it... that is the breeders job really .. but it may give you peace of mind xxx


Thanks JoJo - not sure how to upload on to here... will bring it with me tomorrow tho and have a go!

I have also emailed the breeder asking for more info/reassurance about this company.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Good plan .. the breeder will have had the test done so I am sure she/he will reassure you ... I have had a look at the site, ok its not Optigen but it does look like a DNA testing company, not that I would know a fake site if it hit me in the face, thats what my hubby is for  I love dogs and kids, but technology not my thing!!!!!! Was it a home or large breeder you got Betty from ... have they got a website .. it may say more about their testing on there :S


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Good plan .. the breeder will have had the test done so I am sure she/he will reassure you ... I have had a look at the site, ok its not Optigen but it does look like a DNA testing company, not that I would know a fake site if it hit me in the face, thats what my hubby is for  I love dogs and kids, but technology not my thing!!!!!! Was it a home or large breeder you got Betty from ... have they got a website .. it may say more about their testing on there :S


Hi JoJo

I got here from Precious Paws in Holmes Chapel. Not really sure what constitutes a home breeder or large breeder really. She is a groomer by trade but also shows cocker spaniels ( Betty was from her first litter of poo's).
They had a large farm and the pups were all inside ( not outside kennels) but there were quite alot of them. She also does doggy day care so lots of dogs in general. A bit chaotic but also something nice and friendly about it all. On her website there is a section about how the pups are reared bu nothing specific about PRA testing.


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Hi Colin ... please don’t worry..
> 
> Betty is a pet, and a pet can have one parent who is a carrier or affected, as long as the other parent is DNA clear, then Betty will only ever be Clear or a Carrier.. so don’t worry, having a pet as a carrier or clear is fine . Have a look at you paperwork and let me know what you have got there for her parents or even grandparents.
> 
> ...


JoJo optigen tests only test for prcd-PRA, there are other forms of PRA and other genetic eye conditions that cockers are predisposed too which have no DNA marker, so besides the optigen test IMO all dogs used for breeding should also have the general eye test done annually with one of the BVA eye panellists to test dogs for these conditions, cockers are also predisposed to primary glaucoma and should have the once in a lifetime gonioscopy to test for this also. I don't think any puppy should be brought into this world at risk of suffering a condition when it could be avoided or the risk reduced ,all with a simple test

sorry for hijacking the thread but tbh im a bit boggled, I keep reading things like "its okay if only one dog is tested for one condition if its just going to be a pet" what about the breeder who bred that pet? should'nt they have tested their dogs fully seeing as they bred them? I'm really struggling to understand here


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

doodlebug said:


> I'm really struggling to understand here


I think in relation to PRA most people breeding cockapoos only test one dog as they know the resulting puppies will be clear or a carrier but will not be affected. I guess that is also the case with some cocker and some poodle breeders as well since this 'bad' practice surely isn't the preserve of just cockapoo breeders otherwise there wouldn't be any PRA carriers or affected dogs any more and PRA would no longer be around! Only the more let's say conscientious are testing both dogs for PRA resulting in clear puppies.

At the very least those not PRA testing both bitch and stud should only sell their puppies with a contract which prevents breeding on from puppies that are not guaranteed to be PRA clear.

As for all the other testing it is not legislated so I suppose 'breeders' just test for what they want to or have knowledge of.

I suppose with good pure breed breeders testing is paramount but with lots of people breeding more 'informally' with no enforced rules and regulations anything goes  and then the onus is on the buyer to ensure they only buy a puppy from a breeder who demonstrates best practice.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Yes Jenny I am well aware of this .. but thanks anyway ...

I was just trying to reassure Colin ...


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> Hi JoJo
> 
> I got here from Precious Paws in Holmes Chapel. Not really sure what constitutes a home breeder or large breeder really. She is a groomer by trade but also shows cocker spaniels ( Betty was from her first litter of poo's).
> They had a large farm and the pups were all inside ( not outside kennels) but there were quite alot of them. She also does doggy day care so lots of dogs in general. A bit chaotic but also something nice and friendly about it all. On her website there is a section about how the pups are reared bu nothing specific about PRA testing.


Ha ha ha .. I only have two dogs and it is crazy here when the door bell rings, so I can imagine... sound like a large home breeder ha ha ha ... I know what you mean about the nice friendly feeling, thats dogs for you ..

I am sure she has everything in order regarding the DNA testing, just send her an email to stop you worrying  .. we can't have Colin worrying..... xxx


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

colpa110 said:


> I got here from Precious Paws in Holmes Chapel. Not really sure what constitutes a home breeder or large breeder really. She is a groomer by trade but also shows cocker spaniels ( Betty was from her first litter of poo's).
> They had a large farm and the pups were all inside ( not outside kennels) but there were quite alot of them. She also does doggy day care so lots of dogs in general. A bit chaotic but also something nice and friendly about it all. On her website there is a section about how the pups are reared bu nothing specific about PRA testing.


She is DNA testing all her show cocker boys and the info is all in the 'Show cocker stud dogs' section. There is no info about the girls as it looks like she is in the process of putting the info on her website. I'm guessing though that they are tested so your girl will not be affected. Just a quick call or email to double check like JoJo has suggested will, I'm sure be all that is needed to put your mind at rest


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Great .. Well done Mandy  I didn't want Colin worrying xxx


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

embee said:


> I think in relation to PRA most people breeding cockapoos only test one dog as they know the resulting puppies will be clear or a carrier but will not be affected. I guess that is also the case with some cocker and some poodle breeders as well since this 'bad' practice surely isn't the preserve of just cockapoo breeders otherwise there wouldn't be any PRA carriers or affected dogs any more and PRA would no longer be around! Only the more let's say conscientious are testing both dogs for PRA resulting in clear puppies.
> 
> At the very least those not PRA testing both bitch and stud should only sell their puppies with a contract which prevents breeding on from puppies that are not guaranteed to be PRA clear.
> 
> ...




That may be true for one type of PRA but there are others, and a simple BVA general eye test would test dogs for these and other conditions the breed is predisposed to. So true, there are lots of cocker and poodle breeders who dont do all the tests available, lots don't do any! There are terrible breeders all over the place im afraid, but you can find breeders of cockers and poodles who will go above and beyond what is required to breed the healthiest puppies. I will never understand why any breeder would compromise the health of their puppies by doing no testing or the bare minimum, before anyone breeds they should educate themselves on what tests the breed requires, there is no excuse imo. But I totally agree with you Embee at the end of the day the onus is on the buyer, they should only support the most ethical breeders who dont take chances with their pups health. And forums like this are a great place to educate people about such things





JoJo said:


> Yes Jenny I am well aware of this .. but thanks anyway ...
> 
> I was just trying to reassure Colin ...


Sorry then JoJo, but I read your puppy buyers blog and I didn't think you realised there were other forms of PRA in cockers,

also on an open forum like this, I think its important to post the facts about something as important as genetic health tests for any lurkers out there reading these posts


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

You are just being clear Jenny  

When you are searching for your cockapoo, what health testing would you like to see?


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

JoJo said:


> You are just being clear Jenny
> 
> When you are searching for your cockapoo, what health testing would you like to see?


Well I at least expect to find breeders who do the same tests on poodles that members of the doodle breeders club do ,ie annual eye exam, optigen test prcd-PRA and hip score.

cocker side same as above along with gonioscopy, on F2s etc all tests mentioned

what about you JoJo?


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I feel it is important to know what and why you are breeding too  

As you know I have a F1 and F2 Cockapoo and yes I would like to have a litter possibly one day... I want to do all the testing I can .... Optigen, BVA Eye and BVA Hip, seems to be all the tests that are available for cockapoos, tell me if I have missed one  . Gonioscopy am I right in saying this is a test for Glaucoma and a test that requires using a special lens, the dog being sedated etc, when primary Glaucoma is found in a dog??? Sorry Jenny picking your brains now, I want to get it right, I have read about it, but don’t want to miss lead anyone on this... Can cockapoos have this type of test done under the BVA exam?

I hope you like the blog Jenny please feel free to comment on it using the comment sections .... I just want to share my experiences with others, I am no expert, it’s good to learn and research. I just love the cockapoo breed and my cockapoos like crazy.


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

JoJo said:


> I feel it is important to know what and why you are breeding too
> 
> As you know I have a F1 and F2 Cockapoo and yes I would like to have a litter possibly one day... I want to do all the testing I can .... Optigen, BVA Eye and BVA Hip, seems to be all the tests that are available for cockapoos, tell me if I have missed one  . Gonioscopy am I right in saying this is a test for Glaucoma and a test that requires using a special lens, the dog being sedated etc, when primary Glaucoma is found in a dog??? Sorry Jenny picking your brains now, I want to get it right, I have read about it, but don’t want to miss lead anyone on this... Can cockapoos have this type of test done under the BVA exam?
> 
> I hope you like the blog Jenny please feel free to comment on it using the comment sections .... I just want to share my experiences with others, I am no expert, it’s good to learn and research. I just love the cockapoo breed and my cockapoos like crazy.



Yes the Goniosopy is for glaucoma, but the dog isnt sedated, some dogs can get a little stressed but most Ive taken have been fine, they just need holding really still whilst the test is performed

I believe non registered breeds can be done under the scheme, all dogs just need to be identifiable with a microchip.

I'm just dashing off to work so I've only scanned your post but I'll reply fully when I get home, but I have to say JoJo you are the type of breeder I am looking for


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you for that info ... I will look into it further Jenny and maybe do a post on it, thank you.

Ahh what a lovely compliment .. thank you ...  

Please contact me via the blog if you have any feedback or ideas ... I am no expert but I really enjoy everything about my cockapoos xxx

Have a good day at work .. I am off on a dog walk xxx


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

embee said:


> She is DNA testing all her show cocker boys and the info is all in the 'Show cocker stud dogs' section. There is no info about the girls as it looks like she is in the process of putting the info on her website. I'm guessing though that they are tested so your girl will not be affected. Just a quick call or email to double check like JoJo has suggested will, I'm sure be all that is needed to put your mind at rest


Hi Mandy

Thanks - I saw this too but was just concerned that the testing was
not by Optigen but by a company in Slovakia which I have not heard of on this forum or elsewhere. The mum ( cocker) was not tested but the Dad (toy poodle is)..


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Was trying to add /send attachments....does anyone know how to do this please??


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Hi 
These are the certificates the breeder gave me for Betty..hope it works, not
really sure what I am doing!


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

This is the message I ( finally) got back from betty's breeder.
Thought it might be useful to others....

Hi Colin.
*
The DNA tests are done by a company called Genomia .
PRCD Is the dna test that srceens for PRA - this is what Domino has had done ,
Optigen is just another lab, based in New york. (optigen meaning just a company name )
It is still the same test just a different company.
*
The reason we went with Genomia is they DNA test for a lot of different hereditary deases,s 
like vWD1 .(which he is also tested for).
we also test our spaniels for FN (kidney deases) to get this done by optigen DNA has to be sent to france .
where as Genomia also do it .
none of the DNA testing is done in the UK.
Optigen do have the right to send results straight to the kennel club (they pay for this privilege).
probably why you have herd of Optigen.
*
Genomia is a very reputable company and we have used them alot , and alot of breeders also use them because they can get more sreenings of DNA done with them ,
If you do have any concerns about the company you can check them through the kennel club as they do know the company .
company name is Genomia not PRCD.COM .
prcd is the test run to check for PRA .
*
Hope all this makes sense , 
Anita x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks Colin for the update ... useful advice  

I don't know if this company would test Cockapoo, although they may test Cockers and Poodles ..... this is why I use Optigen as they do test Cockapoos .... also I guess when buying an F1 it is reassuring to know the results are sent to Kennel Club too...

But yes this seems like another way of testing.. I think I will stick to Optigen myself but it’s useful to know there are other companies doing it, thank you .


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