# Luxating patella



## 2ndhandgal

Molly has had a tough few weeks with firstly stomach problems and then pain from one of her back legs. Her leg had settled down but I wanted to be as sure as I could there was no underlying problem as we are hopefully going to agility together.

She has luxating patella on both of her back knees - at the moment they are not too bad so hopefully we will be able to avoid surgery by building her muscles to hold her knee caps in place better. She also has weakness in her right hind leg so we have a series of exercises to carry out to try and sort her out fully.

Another thing to be added to the list that good breeders should be checking all breeding dogs for as I understand it can be a hereditary condition


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## Laura(L)Izzie

Sorry to hear about Molly  Hope she pulls through without need for surgery!
Which cross is she? Are all cockapoo crosses prone to it as a hereditary disease or are some worse than others? I don't know too much about it so was just wondering :/


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## colpa110

I know this affects small/toy breeds more commonly. Those of us with toy
crosses could be more prone to it.I got the Vet to check Betty's hips and knees
last week when I took her in to be spayed and she is fine..so far. He said it
is part of the trade off with not exercising puppies/young dogs enough as they do not form enough muscle density.Dammed if you do dammed if you dont


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## Laura(L)Izzie

Thanks Colin, I did think it was more prone with toy breeds, but didn't want to ask that directly incase I was wrong & someone didn't like what i'd said, I do think if it is the case with toy breeds then the toy poodles should definitely be tested :/

But like you said you get told to do things & then not to do them, we were always not not to over exercise pups as it could cause problems, so what do you do? :S


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## kendal

a magnetic collar might also be worth looking into. it is often used for joint problems as magnet therapy has been seen to have results in both humans and animals.


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## michaelwatson54

So sorry to hear Molly's news 

I notice from your Cockapoo information that she's 2 years old? 

Have you been doing agility with her to date? if so for how long? 

Has the vet given you any idea how this has developed or what could have caused it?

What's the long term prognosis?

Sorry for so many question's but I am really interested as to how this condition has developed.


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## M&M's mummy

2ndhandgal said:


> Molly has had a tough few weeks with firstly stomach problems and then pain from one of her back legs. Her leg had settled down but I wanted to be as sure as I could there was no underlying problem as we are hopefully going to agility together.
> 
> She has luxating patella on both of her back knees - at the moment they are not too bad so hopefully we will be able to avoid surgery by building her muscles to hold her knee caps in place better. She also has weakness in her right hind leg so we have a series of exercises to carry out to try and sort her out fully.
> 
> Another thing to be added to the list that good breeders should be checking all breeding dogs for as I understand it can be a hereditary condition


I'm sorry to hear about Molly, must be a worry for you 

Yes you are right LP is know to be congenital and is a condition that does affect the toy breeds more but can affect the minis too.

It can also I believe be caused by trauma too.

As it is genetics that play apart it would be great if sometime in the future there were DNA tests available for this condition.

My research has led me to believe that at present there is no UK screening programme available for LP unlike there is for eyes and hips.

I think diagnosis is made by vet examination and any dogs showing clinical signs of the disease should not be bred from.

it is a progressive disease so really breeders should be aware of signs that all is not well, and should be getting them checked prior to breeding.

Those using toy poodles should be checking for LP prior to breeding as the norm but maybe this may have to be a future health test consideration for all cockapoo breeders.


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## Sezra

I am sorry to hear that Molly is suffering from this.  I hope that the exercises help her. x


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## lola24

Hydrotherapy is great for this as it will help to build up muscle without the joints taking impact (treadmill pool would be best but a free swim pool is better than nothing). Also i would be looking at getting her on some joint supplements as there is some suggestion that they can be useful as a preventative measure for the arthritis that will occur later. I use Yumove tablets as the contents are as good as the common veterinary leaders but are loads cheaper. Most vets are switching over to Yumove at the moment for this reason


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## lola24

Oh yeah, as Kendal mentioned- the magnetic collars are great. My husband wears a wristband (bracelet but he doesn't like that word! -he's lucky i didn't buy him a collar!!) and he swears by it.


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## 2ndhandgal

No problem!

Molly is just 2 and I have had her for around 7 months now. She did not get much exercise in her previous home and did not have much muscle at all at that stage and I noticed she would occasionally limp on either of her back legs for just a couple of steps. That is the classic sign for luxating patella but from a previous dog I knew that an increase in muscle can help so gradually built up her exercise and the limp has virtually gone now. 

We did sign up for some agility during the summer and a few weeks of training - although wasp stings and bad stomachs conspired against her and we missed more weeks than we went to. The weeks we did go we did not do a vast amount of jumping so I am pretty confident that did her no harm.

Her more recent injury meant I had cut back again on exercise for the last month or so and yesterday took her to be thoroughly checked out at an excellent rehab centre who I trust totally.

It is pretty likely to be congenital and bought to light more by a lack of exercise leading to not much in the way of muscle tone.

As well as the luxating patella the vet yesterday felt she was weaker on one of her back legs and generally not as strong with her back legs as she should be. We have a whole series of physio exercises to do every day so a fair bit of work. Hopefully the exercises will allow her to get sufficient strength in her back legs for the luxating patella to not be a problem to her and it will just be something I need to be aware of rather than do anything about. 

Assuming I am able to build her up sufficiently then we may well be able to take up agility again - but this is if and only if the vet considers her fit to do it.

Luxating Patella appears to be a problem in both poodles and spaniels and in my opinion breeders should be checking all of their breeding stock thoroughly for any condition that can occur including hip dysplaysia and luxating patella. 

She is a toy poodle x american cocker.


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## 2ndhandgal

Thanks all - she went on a hydro treadmill yesterday but unfortunately there is nowhere locally I would use so we will have to stick with the rest of the exercises. We might try a pool later as part of her general exercise regime but I know the specialist vet we saw generally feels that the only way to build the right muscles for walking correctly is walking type exercises.

Interestingly enough when I previously had a dog with luxating patella the vets I spoke to at the time said as it did not cause direct joint damage there was no real value in taking joint supplements of any sort for this problem. The same would apply with the magnetic collar. 

As long as I can build her muscles sufficiently to hold the knee cap in position she should have no further real problems from her slightly dodgy knees (hopefully) but I will double check to see if any supplements might help her.


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## lola24

2ndhandgal said:


> Thanks all - she went on a hydro treadmill yesterday but unfortunately there is nowhere locally I would use so we will have to stick with the rest of the exercises. We might try a pool later as part of her general exercise regime but I know the specialist vet we saw generally feels that the only way to build the right muscles for walking correctly is walking type exercises.
> 
> Interestingly enough when I previously had a dog with luxating patella the vets I spoke to at the time said as it did not cause direct joint damage there was no real value in taking joint supplements of any sort for this problem. The same would apply with the magnetic collar.
> 
> As long as I can build her muscles sufficiently to hold the knee cap in position she should have no further real problems from her slightly dodgy knees (hopefully) but I will double check to see if any supplements might help her.


We tend to put animals on joint supplements for this as the other joints will be under stress when the dog is sore and not bearing full weight on 1 leg. also if her back legs are weaker then she will be bearing more weight on her forelegs (they already carry the majority of weight through their forelegs anyway). Joint supplements can also help with inflammation around a joint which is bound to occur when the kneecap is slipping in and out of the knee. Due to the frame size of a cockapoo (esp toyxam) your vet may not feel it necessary but my feeling is that it can only help!! 
Also the magnetic collars are not just used for arthritis, they are good for all sorts of soreness/ swelling including soft tissue. Again, it could only help. 
Your vet prob has this covered but in addition to your exercises broom handles are good to 'step' over and walking up/down stairs slowly. Good luck with her


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## wellerfeller

lola24 said:


> We tend to put animals on joint supplements for this as the other joints will be under stress when the dog is sore and not bearing full weight on 1 leg. also if her back legs are weaker then she will be bearing more weight on her forelegs (they already carry the majority of weight through their forelegs anyway). Joint supplements can also help with inflammation around a joint which is bound to occur when the kneecap is slipping in and out of the knee. Due to the frame size of a cockapoo (esp toyxam) your vet may not feel it necessary but my feeling is that it can only help!!
> Also the magnetic collars are not just used for arthritis, they are good for all sorts of soreness/ swelling including soft tissue. Again, it could only help.
> Your vet prob has this covered but in addition to your exercises broom handles are good to 'step' over and walking up/down stairs slowly. Good luck with her


This is very true as we use magnetic pulse therapy in racing greyhounds for all sorts of things. Stress, bumps and knocks, breaks, general soreness. It does help on many levels.


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## 2ndhandgal

Thanks both. I will check out the supplements and magnets for her as advised. My other dog had lots of other problems as well meaning he was on supplements for those but I would far rather err on the side of caution which is the main reason I have taken her to a specialists now to get her as balanced as possible before she makes things worse.

Yep - our physio program is pretty comprehensive - we start slopes in week two and stepping over poles in week three amongst plenty of other work - we are certainly going to be busy!! She is also having some acupuncture to aid her healing so hopefully will be fully fit very soon!!


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## wellerfeller

2ndhandgal said:


> Thanks both. I will check out the supplements and magnets for her as advised. My other dog had lots of other problems as well meaning he was on supplements for those but I would far rather err on the side of caution which is the main reason I have taken her to a specialists now to get her as balanced as possible before she makes things worse.
> 
> Yep - our physio program is pretty comprehensive - we start slopes in week two and stepping over poles in week three amongst plenty of other work - we are certainly going to be busy!! She is also having some acupuncture to aid her healing so hopefully will be fully fit very soon!!


Molly is very lucky to have found you!!!!! Its great you are prepared to do just about anything to help her. Good for you!!!


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## 2ndhandgal

Just to update on how Molly is doing.

My vet has confirmed that her problem is how she is constructed rather than anything to do with exercise at any point. She is being really good about doing her various exercises and after a few growls the first week is now tolerating her acupuncture pretty well too. At the moment we are seeing my local vet and he feels the exercises have already helped her muscles mass in her back legs which is great. He is also fairly sure her problem is bad enough that she will need surgery at some point which is not great! 

We are going back to see the specialist in another couple of weeks so will see what she thinks too.

The main thing is she is still her usual happy self and is allowed as much free running as she wants so we have been for some lovely walks with my friend and her dogs where she has had a fab time playing.


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## Sezra

Thank you for the update. It is good to hear that the exercises are helping to build her muscles up but a shame that she will need surgery. I am glad she is happy though and still running around having fun. xx


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## JulesB

Great to hear she is doing well but a shame to hear she'll need surgery but at least its been caught now so won't get worse.

x


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## 2ndhandgal

Unfortunately it is likely to be something which causes her more problems as she gets older - but she has a light frame and I will make sure she stays a decent weight together with me having a fantastic couple of vets for support.

Here is my lovely girl posing on on of our recent walks - both on her own and with one of her pals.


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## JulesB

Oh bless she is a proper little poser!! Too cute!!! x


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## Guest

funny this subject should come up now, i was asked yesterday about patellas , so although i have not had a problem with it ever to my knowledge i asked my vet , he said there is no official test for slipping patellas , but like hip displacia you exray but there is still no garantee even if both dogs have low scores that the offspring wont get it ,i have proved that over the years the only thing a responsible breeder should do is check out your breeding boys and girls .... love to here if there are other experiences people have had witj s patellas 2ndhandgal hope your little one is ok janice x


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## JoJo

romeo said:


> funny this subject should come up now, i was asked yesterday about patellas , so although i have not had a problem with it ever to my knowledge i asked my vet , he said there is no official test for slipping patellas , but like hip displacia you exray but there is still no garantee even if both dogs have low scores that the offspring wont get it ,i have proved that over the years the only thing a responsible breeder should do is check out your breeding boys and girls .... love to here if there are other experiences people have had witj s patellas 2ndhandgal hope your little one is ok janice x


Janice, thank you for looking into this testing, it is on my to do list  but I haven't got around to it yet ... So no clear testing available then .. terrible hey.. but thanks for asking your vet


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## 2ndhandgal

JoJo said:


> Janice, thank you for looking into this testing, it is on my to do list  but I haven't got around to it yet ... So no clear testing available then .. terrible hey.. but thanks for asking your vet


An excellent article here about testing for luxating patella 

http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/library/articles/chihuahuaupdate0410.pdf

The worse cases can be seen on x-ray but a good vet should also be able to check dogs for it - and there are also some interesting points about age at testing which is another good reason why bitches should not be used to breed until they are fully mature and have passed all the relevant tests.


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## Guest

2ndhandgal said:


> An excellent article here about testing for luxating patella
> 
> http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/library/articles/chihuahuaupdate0410.pdf
> 
> The worse cases can be seen on x-ray but a good vet should also be able to check dogs for it - and there are also some interesting points about age at testing which is another good reason why bitches should not be used to breed until they are fully mature and have passed all the relevant tests.


interesting but once again american site isnt it ? they are always ahead of us !! haha my vet has been in practice for 45 years and again today told me there is no tryed and tested way apart from xrays and who in there right mind is going to subject there dogs to anasthetic not me , remember once losing a gsd to anasthetic having xray scary ... janice x


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## 2ndhandgal

romeo said:


> interesting but once again american site isnt it ? they are always ahead of us !! haha my vet has been in practice for 45 years and again today told me there is no tryed and tested way apart from xrays and who in there right mind is going to subject there dogs to anasthetic not me , remember once losing a gsd to anasthetic having xray scary ... janice x


I will ask my vet on Tuesday his views on testing. Although Molly has had x-rays done though both my regular and specialist vet diagnosed her problem by feel alone only looking at the x-ray afterwards.

I would also say dogs used for breeding should be x-rayed for hip scoring in my opinion (whatever breed they may be) so no reason why patella can't be checked at the same time if x-ray is the best way. 

I will report back my vets view after Tuesday.


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## Sezra

Thank you that would be interesting to know what he says.


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## Georgiapeach

My poodle, Potsie, has grade 4 luxating patellas in both back legs, which is the worst classification. One of his knees won't even stay in place. When put back in place, it pops right back out. The other one is nearly as bad. Amazingly, it doesn't seem to bother him. My vet said to watch to see if he "skips" when running, which is a sign of pain. Potsie doesn't skip yet, thank goodness. My vet is amazed at how well he's doing. The surgery is very expensive, and I'm trying to avoid it, if possible.

To help, I give Potsie the supplement, Cosequin DS, made by Nutramax Laboratories, Inc., recommended by many vets here in the States. It's pricey, but it's also effective. I give it to Potsie (13 pounds) and to Rosie (15 pounds). They get 1/2 tablet once a day, along with a human grade fish oil capsule, also once daily. (At first, the dose is 1 tablet daily for 4-6 weeks, to load it in their system.). This dose is good for dogs up to 24 pounds. The dose for larger dogs is written on the bottle.

Rosie hasn't shown signs of it yet, but I'm giving her the supplement as a preventative, since she's getting older (she'll be 8 in the Spring).

Good luck with your dog!


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## 2ndhandgal

I hope Potsie stays OK Georgiapeach!

We visited our regular vet last night and he is pretty pleased with the progress Molly is making with a combination of acupuncture and physio exercises. Her muscles have increased and are doing a better job of holding the kneecap in place so she is looking much less like she may need surgery for now anyway!! Visit to the specialist in a week to see what she thinks!!

I also asked him about tests for breeding dogs and he said yes they should be done and can be done manually by checking the kneecap for movement whilst manipulating the leg exactly as both he and the specialist vet do with Molly. He retired from general practice a few years ago but tells me chihauhua breeders seem to be ahead of others (in our area) and used to regularly bring in dogs they intended to use for breeding to get them checked over - so absolutely no reason to not get this checked for ALL dogs to be used for breeding as poodles and both american and english cocker spaniels can all be affected.

There is no guarantee of healthy knees if the parents knees are good - but no excuse for not checking the knees of any dog intended for breeding.


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## 2ndhandgal

I had a bit of a scare with Molly on Monday when during a walk she decided to indulge in a spot of rabbit chasing and came back not using one of her back legs. My vet had said the previous week it was her weaker leg. After a rest she was fine but I have rested her since then.

We were back to see the specialist today and no real damage done so no off-lead walks for the next week and then gradually introduce free-running - but without the rabbit chasing aspect!!

Back to see the specialist in another month and we need to continue our exercises in the mean time.


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## JulesB

Poor Molly but glad she is ok now!!

x


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## M&M's mummy

Glad Molly is ok after resting her leg.

You will have to find somewhere boring to take her off lead where there are no temptations!!!!


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## 2ndhandgal

M&M's mummy said:


> Glad Molly is ok after resting her leg.
> 
> You will have to find somewhere boring to take her off lead where there are no temptations!!!!


Not much chance of that as she will chase anything that moves!!! 

The rabbit incident though was completely my fault as she has been so good lately I was not managing her quite as closely as I should have been. Her muscles are improving though and holding her kneecaps in place better so it is a setback rather than a huge problem!

.... and the main thing is she is still my normal happy girly  (despite a long trip today to see the vet!)


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## Dottieven

Coco is looked after during the day by my husband and myself while my daughter and her husband, who live close by, work at very demanding jobs.
She is the most beautiful cockapoo and we all adore her. She seems to charm everyone she meets and I'm sure she has an invisible halo on her head as she cocks her head to the side and listens to all the compliments!

She is now 10 months old and we have all noticed that she occasionally hops on her right hind leg and assumed it was idiosyncratic behaviour. Yesterday she went to the seaside and my daughter noticed that as she descended the many stairs from Highcliffe castle to the beach, she hopped all the way. Obviously we took her to the vet this morning and he has diagnosed luxating patellar in both hind legs. The plan is to X-Ray her when she is spayed in three weeks time. We all feel dreadfully upset and guilty that we didn't take action before and are worried for her future. She has taken part in long runs with my son in law and is the speediest, happiest dog ever.

I have read previous posts and I suppose it won't hurt to rest her for the next three weeks till she is x-rayed and we have a plan. I have noticed how she hesitates when jumping into the car or even on to our laps. Should we prevent her from doing this in case she does further damage? I suppose the answer is obvious but it seems that it is rather cruel to limit her so much.

I would be so pleased to hear from experienced owners. By the way, Coco's mother is a working cocker and her dad is a miniature poodle.

I am a new dog owner and I really had no idea of the joy that Coco would bring. We all feel so lucky!


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## 2ndhandgal

Wow - a long ago post - and bringing it up to date for Molly she was discharged from the specialist vets in Spring 2012, had a trip back in Spring 2013 when she was struggling slightly and my local vet thought it might be time for surgery (specialist disagreed and changed her exercises slightly) and is still doing pretty well.

I have never particularly restricted Molly. If she is hesitant about jumping up (which she is now and then) I usually lift her up, but she runs like the wind and is generally a happy girl who loves her off lead runs. This is her on a recent trip to the beach - don't think she looks like a dog with any issues at all










I think you are in the UK? Not sure where you are based but if there is any way you can get to Cardiff I would thoroughly recommend the specialists we have used - they are 2.5 hours from us but well worth it to keep Molly happy and mobile. Part of Molls problem was she was not using her legs well and the physio was to encourage her to use them well and then to build muscle to better support the knees. She still has the problem and her kneecaps are pretty rubbish but she is not at all affected by them in her day to day life. 

This is the place we have been to 

http://www.smartvetwales.co.uk/

Good luck with Coco - let me know how she gets on - sorry I have rambled a bit - I would probably not overly restrict her for the next few weeks but lift her if she looks hesitant about jumping as that is something she may find harder now and then.


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