# Sticky  Looking for cockapoo breeder north/east scotland



## kirstycam

Hi there,

We are looking for a family dog and after a lot of research have set our hearts on a cockapoo.

Just wondered if anyone could recommend a breeder in the north/east of Scotland ... although we would be willing to travel further afield.

Thank you


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## NikkiAndMarley

Hi there,

I'm up in the north east of Scotland and got Marley in December from a local breeder at guildy den farm by monikie - it's a little north of Dundee. If you google guildy den monikie you'll get their website which doesn't actually mention anything about the dogs it's about sheep and goats I think but it has an email address to contact Gordon if you're interested. I found them extremely helpful and friendly and little Marley is absolutely amazing, very friendly, such a character and the most affectionate dog I've ever met  definitely a family dog. The breeder came recommended to me and I know a few people with dogs from them all of which have great characters. We're even considering getting a second pup when Marley's a bit older so he has a pal to play with and we'll definitely go back to guildy den. 

Hope thats a help! Good luck anyway if you decide to go for it


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## kirstycam

Hi 

Thanks for the info ... I found an old advert online for cockapoos that guildy den had posted (probably the litter your pup came from!)and I contacted them to see if they had another litter planned.

They do and the litter was due last week and we are getting one of the pups!!

We live in Dundee so I know exactly where they are ... great to know of someone who has already got a pup from them that gives me great peace of mind and confidence to buy from them.

Thank you so much for your help and Marley must be a great dog if you thinking about getting another!

Cant wait to go choose ours in a few weeks time.

Kirsty


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## NikkiAndMarley

Aww that's great I'm so excited for you! You're gonna absolutely love him/her  they really are great dogs! 

Good luck and I hope the next few weeks pass quick for you!! Feel free to post a pic of the little one when he/she arrives!

Nikki


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## kirstycam

We met him yesterday only 4weeks so have a bit of a wait until he comes home  xx


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## jonro99

Kirstycam 

What a lovely puppy. Was he born on 16 Feb? We are getting a puppy from Gordon too! Ours is black, haven't seen him yet though. Picking him up on 13 April! Maybe you have seen him, we are calling him Alfie. We have one picture and wish we had more. Are you going back before you collect your pup? We are up in Inverness so can only really make the 3.5 hr journey once, hope Alfie is a good traveller! I would be really interested to know if you have seen our pup and what info you have on the parents and what you saw feel free to PM me if you like.


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## NikkiAndMarley

Aww he's absolutely gorgeous! I bet you can't wait to get him home  does he have a name yet?


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## mandym

Very cute,always exciting getting a puppy.Does gordon eye test yet? Until recently he didnt so just to be on the safe side i would ask about it.Also 2 bva tested dogs can still be carriers which will result in affected pups so make sure one parent is dna tested clear xxx


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## jonro99

Hi

Yes, very excited! We are calling him Alfie. Is the pup you are getting from the same litter? What do you know about the litter? I know the mum is a working dog and was a litter of 6 but that's it. Would love to know more! 

I don't know about eye testing, I would assume not though from what I have heard. He doesn't give them their first vacc's either, so will start from scratch. Already got the vets booked. 

Regarding BVA as far as I'm aware at least one parent is clear. 

Never had a cross breed pup like this before so really appreciate your comments and advice, I certainly wouldn't be against any other thoughts  

Jon


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## mandym

When you say clear is that bva tested or dna tested? If only one parents has been bva tested then your puppy is still at risk of being pra affected which will result in your dog going blind fairly young.Make sure at least one parent has been dna tested clear with either optigen or laboklin,thats the only way to guarentee a pra free puppy xxx


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## kirstycam

Hi Jon your pup is from same litter!!

I will pm you

Kirsty


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## kirstycam

Hi Mandy

Gordon doesn't test. He was confident his breeding dogs were free and hadn't has any problems to date. He did tell me about a litter years ago that had hip dysplasia and that was with both parents having the health tests.

I know this is a cardinal sin when buying a pup!!!

Kirsty xx


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## jonro99

*failed PM*

Hi Kristy

Just spent 10 mins replying to you and when I submitted the message it got rejected as I haven't made 10 posts!! I can reply by email if you PM your email address. I understand if you would rather not though. 

Jon


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## kendal

Hip displazia is a little different. it an appear in dog whos parentege habe no history.of it. but the eye conditions as far as i know are hereditery, and even if your pup isnt affected by it they can still be carriers which would pass it on to any pups they have themselves.


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## kirstycam

Hi Kendal,

Ah I understand. The pup is going to be a family pet and he will eventually be taking a little trip to the vet once he is old enough. So absolutely no plans to breed.

That said I am now a little worried I may have the test done myself for peace of mind.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts it really helps.

Kirsty


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## mandym

kirstycam said:


> Hi Mandy
> 
> Gordon doesn't test. He was confident his breeding dogs were free and hadn't has any problems to date. He did tell me about a litter years ago that had hip dysplasia and that was with both parents having the health tests.
> 
> I know this is a cardinal sin when buying a pup!!!
> 
> Kirsty xx



Im afraid he has lied to you.I know 2 cockapoos from him both different families,both have pra and both families contacted him to let him know,thats just the 2 i know of although ive heard there are far more i can even give you their details.He cannot possibly tell whether any of his dogs are carriers and when 2 carriers are mated they produce affected puppies


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## ElaineR

Hi guys, kinda just jumping in on your conversation, hope you don't mind! 
I have a gorgeous cockapoo and he is almost 8 now. We love him to bits and he is one spoiled pooch!!! I really don't want to alarm anyone but I can't stress highly enough the importance of DNA eye testing for PRA.. We got our pup from Gordon, who definitely did not test and our pooch is now completely blind!!! We noticed he was struggling when he was about 4, had him tested and sadly was diagnosed with PRA!!!!! He is now completely blind.
We informed Gordon at the time and since then we know of at least one other who has the condition... I pray to god that Gordon now tests, as I would not want anyone to go through the heartache that we did... Incidentally our dog ALSO has hip dysplasia... Would hope at this stage he is testing... And I would def be asking for
proof of this.


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## ElaineR

Kirsty just read over your post saying that Gordon doesn't test and I m flabbergasted!!! To also say that he has had no problems with his breeding dogs is Not true. ....I am proof of that.. I have papers with parents names etc and he is more than welcome to challenge that.. We told him as soon as our dog was diagnosed and he carried on breeding..


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## mandym

The other cockapoo i know from gordon who also has pra is a dog that i look after occasionally,her owner also contacted gordon when she diagnosed.She is also willing to talk to you or anyone planning to get a puppy from there.For a breeder to ignore calls saying his dogs are producing affected puppies then deny all knowledge is shocking! x


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## wellerfeller

I am going to make this thread a sticky so that it doesn't disappear under everything. I think it's really important that people realise just how important DNA testing is and that accepting a breeders "confidence that their dogs aren't affected" just isn't good enough.


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## JoJo

Good idea Karen .. no dog or new owners should have to suffer with a cockapoo going blind.

In my opinion all breeding dogs when breeding cockapoos of all mixes and generations should be DNA tested for prcd-PRA.


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## jonro99

I am going to check again with the breeder and ask for papers if he says they have been tested. If they haven't I will still take the puppy and have him tested myself. I would rather give him a living home than not take him.


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## ElaineR

Karen thanks for doing that!!! I had no clue about PRA and was quite naive when puppy hunting, but I now truly believe that we were meant to have his very special dog... But in reality no breeder should be allowed to carry on breeding without the proper tests being done... Especially when they have been informed that they have produced affected puppies X


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## ElaineR

jonro99 said:


> I am going to check again with the breeder and ask for papers if he says they have been tested. If they haven't I will still take the puppy and have him tested myself. I would rather give him a living home than not take him.


I would most definitely ask him for proof!! I think it's wonderful that you will still take the puppy regardless of the results. Fingers crossed your puppy will be perfectly healthy. My cockapoo leads a perfectly normal, full and happy life.. He brings joy every single day. Of course he needs extra care, but cockapoos are very intelligent and he adapted very well. I use a set of bells on our walks and he is happy to run freely in our local field!!! In fact most people are unaware that he is totally blind


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## kirstycam

Hi sorry I have been away all weekend and just back today.

I am of the same opinion as Jon .. My son picked our pup and has been waiting patiently for four weeks until he comes home. I will get the test done myself and whatever the outcome we will deal with it.

I will be contacting Gordon to get clarity on what tests have and more importantly have not been done!

Kirsty


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## mandym

Sadly this is how breeders like that stay in business,while there are buyers they still continue to breed.Lets hope that after being rumbled they realise they are no longer able to get away with not testing x


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## wellerfeller

I agree with Mandy here, while this particular breeder can still easily sell his puppies whether they are PRA affected or not he has no incentive to pull his finger out and get the tests done. Why spend the money on getting health tests done when people will buy anyway?
It may sound harsh as you are all set to bring your puppies home but you will just be making room for more PRA affected puppies to be born and sold.

Also while Elaine's dog has adjusted well to his blindness you need to bear in mind that not all dogs will adjust so easily. The blindness can cause them to be more defensive and reactive. Something I would think hard about if I had young children.
Sorry for sounding negative but short term happiness could give way to long term worry.


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## ElaineR

I agree 100 per cent Karen!!! My boy has adjusted well but buying a puppy that 'might' be affected would be difficult for me... I don't know how well I'd have coped if I'd known the situation when we first got him.. The thing is you never know when it will happen... You may get a few years.. It may be much quicker... The first signs we got was when we noticed he was easily spooked on his usual walk.. Trees rustling... A sudden movement .. He just generally became a nervous dog... Tripping down kerbs too.. Thing is by the time we suspected he had a problem the vet told us he was already quite advanced.. we thought it was maybe catteracts but to be told he would be completely blind within a matter of months shocked us to the core!!!We were absolutely devastated!!!!!!!! I can't begin to tell you how sad we felt...we were lucky that he regained his confidence but it was a lot of hard work to get him to this stage.. As I said he is well adjusted but also required adult company always... In particular me lol!!!! He is my shadow.. I changed my job so that he is rarely left alone.


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## wellerfeller

You have obviously done so well for him, he sounds like he gets to enjoy life. He is a lucky boy some owners would not have been able to cope with the amount of work required to get their dogs confidence back!
Can we see some pics of your boy?


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## colpa110

You are an inspiration to all dog owners Elaine. Your boy is very lucky to have you.


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## JoJo

Surely breeders that do this dont care about the puppies life and furtue  or the owners experience either ... 

Also if without these tests and if pups are found to be PRA affected .. surely the breeder should be giving these puppies to families free of charge .. or refunding the cost of the puppy to help with the on going care ... just seems the right thing to do.


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## ElaineR

If I can work out how to post photos I will lol!!! Thank you for your kind comments guys... He's very easy to love!!!


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## ElaineR

JoJo said:


> Surely breeders that do this dont care about the puppies life and furtue  or the owners experience either ...
> 
> Also if without these tests and if pups are found to be PRA affected .. surely the breeder should be giving these puppies to families free of charge .. or refunding the cost of the puppy to help with the on going care ... just seems the right thing to do.


Absolutely JoJo!!!! I mean I've no idea what they even charge these days but I do know what it costs for insurance n stuff, granted you'd probably get that anyway, but to charge the same as a proven healthy pup is just ridiculous... Any breeder should be checking where their puppies are going to.. We were not checked, he even offered to meet us halfway to drop it off.. Never asked anything about us actually. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!!!


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## Jedicrazy

Elaine, your poo is lucky to have you and your family and such a loving home despite everything 

It makes me so cross when I read about breeders who don't do the decent thing by health testing or even worse deliberately deceive people by lying about health testing (I've heard of one who is supposed to be a CCGB approved breeders, how did that happen?). 

I wish there was a list where we could name and shame these breeders and put them out of business.  sorry, rant over!


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## mandym

Jedicrazy said:


> Elaine, your poo is lucky to have you and your family and such a loving home despite everything
> 
> It makes me so cross when I read about breeders who don't do the decent thing by health testing or even worse deliberately deceive people by lying about health testing (I've heard of one who is supposed to be a CCGB approved breeders, how did that happen?).
> 
> I wish there was a list where we could name and shame these breeders and put them out of business.  sorry, rant over!


Im afraid this is what happens when checks are made by people too inexperienced to do the job and its probably not the only breeder to slip through the nets.With regards to elaines bobby,i have met the family and bobby,every bit as wonderful in the flesh,he is a very lucky boy and they feel blessed to have him too xxx


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## ElaineR

Jedicrazy said:


> Elaine, your poo is lucky to have you and your family and such a loving home despite everything
> 
> It makes me so cross when I read about breeders who don't do the decent thing by health testing or even worse deliberately deceive people by lying about health testing (I've heard of one who is supposed to be a CCGB approved breeders, how did that happen?).
> 
> I wish there was a list where we could name and shame these breeders and put them out of business.  sorry, rant over


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## ElaineR

ElaineR said:


> Jedicrazy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elaine, your poo is lucky to have you and your family and such a loving home despite everything
> 
> It makes me so cross when I read about breeders who don't do the decent thing by health testing or even worse deliberately deceive people by lying about health testing (I've heard of one who is supposed to be a CCGB approved breeders, how did that happen?).
> 
> I wish there was a list where we could name and shame these breeders and put them out of business.  sorry, rant over
> 
> 
> 
> Aw thanks rant completely justified and I feel the same!!!!!
Click to expand...


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## Sezra

I have just been catching up on this thread and I am really saddened that this breeder is deceiving people into parting with a lot of money and not only not testing his dogs but lying about any previous history of PRA.

I hate to be blunt and I appreciate that emotional attachements get formed very easily but I would not be prepared to give this man my money. Whilst people are still willing to buy them he will keep breeding untested dogs. It is only when we start to walk away from breeders like this they they get the message. 

Elaine, I am sorry to hear about your story but it sounds like you have done a fabulous job and should be very proud, what a lucky poo to have such fab owners! 

With regards to testing and approved breeders this needs to be a water tight system. Prospective puppy owners will look to the approved breeder list as some kind of reassurance that the breeder has been checked and is a good choice. I still believe that it is a positive move to have an approved breeder scheme but as long as it is managed properly. The problem with any inspection system is that it needs to be monitored on an ongoing basis. This applies to all types of inspection, I have seen it with ofsted, eveyone panics about an ofsted inspection and yet routines and admin get relaxed once it is over and they know they wont be seen again for another three years. Ofsted inspectors are paid however the breeder scheme is run by volunteers doing this because they are passionate about the breed. I am sure lessons will be learnt however I don't think the whole 'idea' should be doubted.


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## JoJo

Jedicrazy said:


> Elaine, your poo is lucky to have you and your family and such a loving home despite everything
> 
> It makes me so cross when I read about breeders who don't do the decent thing by health testing or even worse deliberately deceive people by lying about health testing (I've heard of one who is supposed to be a CCGB approved breeders, how did that happen?).
> 
> I wish there was a list where we could name and shame these breeders and put them out of business.  sorry, rant over!


You are allowed to have a rant Clare, this is not good practice and not good breeding  



Sezra said:


> I have just been catching up on this thread and I am really saddened that this breeder is deceiving people into parting with a lot of money and not only not testing his dogs but lying about any previous history of PRA.
> 
> I hate to be blunt and I appreciate that emotional attachements get formed very easily but I would not be prepared to give this man my money. Whilst people are still willing to buy them he will keep breeding untested dogs. It is only when we start to walk away from breeders like this they they get the message.
> 
> Elaine, I am sorry to hear about your story but it sounds like you have done a fabulous job and should be very proud, what a lucky poo to have such fab owners!
> 
> With regards to testing and approved breeders this needs to be a water tight system. Prospective puppy owners will look to the approved breeder list as some kind of reassurance that the breeder has been checked and is a good choice. I still believe that it is a positive move to have an approved breeder scheme but as long as it is managed properly. The problem with any inspection system is that it needs to be monitored on an ongoing basis. This applies to all types of inspection, I have seen it with ofsted, eveyone panics about an ofsted inspection and yet routines and admin get relaxed once it is over and they know they wont be seen again for another three years. Ofsted inspectors are paid however the breeder scheme is run by volunteers doing this because they are passionate about the breed. I am sure lessons will be learnt however I don't think the whole 'idea' should be doubted.


There is no official approved breeders scheme Sarah when breeding, apart from if you are a licenced breeder that have certain checks but then this is aimed at large scale and volume breeders. And the GB club is not official and doesn't include all breeder as not all breeders wish to join as they dont share the ethics or standards or for what ever reason really. 

So I guess the point is when breeding please take PRA seriously and DNA your breeding dogs ... & if this breeder may have produced affected puppies please just give them free to loving homes with the knowledge they may be affected and stop breeding carrier to carrier as it is not good practice, for the dogs and their owners. 

So sad really .. as the information is out there and it really does only take a few health tests to prevent cockapoos being bred like this.


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## Sezra

JoJo said:


> You are allowed to have a rant Clare, this is not good practice and not good breeding
> 
> 
> 
> There is no official approved breeders scheme Sarah when breeding, apart from if you are a licenced breeder that have certain checks but then this is aimed at large scale and volume breeders. And the GB club is not official and doesn't include all breeder as not all breeders wish to join as they dont share the ethics or standards or for what ever reason really.
> 
> So I guess the point is when breeding please take PRA seriously and DNA your breeding dogs ... & if this breeder may have produced affected puppies please just give them free to loving homes with the knowledge they may be affected and stop breeding carrier to carrier as it is not good practice, for the dogs and their owners.
> 
> So sad really .. as the information is out there and it really does only take a few health tests to prevent cockapoos being bred like this.


I know it is not official Jo  I don't remember saying it was??? The licencing scheme is not worth the paper it is written in either and I also do not believe that they are any more experienced when you consider the amount of puppy farmers we have out there that are not only licensed but masquerading as home breeders!! It is all shocking however I will not knock an attempt to try and raise standards even it is a lower bench mark of acceptance than I would personally like to see. 

It is essential that people find out all that they can and make their own minds up and check all of the paperwork personally but if a scheme does exist it needs to have credibility otherwise there is no point to it.


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## JoJo

Sezra said:


> I know it is not official Jo  The licencing scheme is not worth the paper it is written in either and I also do not believe that they are any more experienced when you consider the amount of puppy farmers we have out there that are not only licensed but masquerading as home breeders!! It is all shocking however I will not knock an attempt to try and raise standards even it is a lower bench mark of acceptance than I would personally like to see.
> 
> It is essential that people find out all that they can and make their own minds up and check all of the paperwork personally but if a scheme does exist it needs to have credibility otherwise there is no point to it.


Basically what you are saying is no licencing scheme or unofficial clubs are water tight and all potential new owners need to the research themselves .. 

Good job there is lots of information out there regarding what to look for etc, and people who have researched or experienced getting a puppy that will guide and help others


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## Sezra

JoJo said:


> Basically what you are saying is no licencing scheme or unofficial clubs are water tight and all potential new owners need to the research themselves ..
> 
> Good job there is lots of information out there regarding what to look for etc, and people who have researched or experienced getting a puppy that will guide and help others


Lets just rewind a little bit  ......

Firstly no where have I said that any club or list is official  I would hate people to think that I was suggesting that but your post seems to say this and I do not like words being put into my mouth or my posts  

I am a neutral person, I just like promoting positive breeding so if I think that that there is a way standards can be raised then that is good, whether it meets my standards or not is another matter!  Obviously it is not official and breeders can choose to be part of it or not for whatever reason they want to be. This might be because they are successful in their own right and have high standards of testing and care or it might be because they have something to hide whch we know would be the case for many. 

Whatever route people go down when choosing a breeder they need to decide what is important to them and what their minimum standards are and then ensure everything checks out properly. Any help out there can only be a positive thing whether it is a club, forum or a blog. By sharing information and by trying to come up with ways to improve breeding practices hopefully there will be less cases like the breeder Gordon where new owners are having bad experiences as it is very sad for everyone involved.


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## JoJo

No you didn't mention unofficial, I did...

Basically what you are saying is no licencing scheme or clubs are water tight and all potential new owners need to the research themselves .. hope that reads better 

Anyway I feel this has upset you so I will not continue. 

Back to the topic of DNA testing for PRA being very important for all breeders.


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## Sezra

I am not upset, I was just confused JoJo, it is easily done  Takes more than that to upset me


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## Mr G

Hi

I have just joined after reading about Guildy farm (Gordon) we have just chosen a puppy and are due to pick him up on the 28th of this month..we are now concerned that they have not done any testing, We are going to phone to ask if the testing has been done, and if he has proof..this is going to be a big disappointment to my kids if it has not been done..we are now considering asking them to test and we will pay for it (not sure if they will), how instant/quick can a vet diagnose ??


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## wellerfeller

Mr G said:


> Hi
> 
> I have just joined after reading about Guildy farm (Gordon) we have just chosen a puppy and are due to pick him up on the 28th of this month..we are now concerned that they have not done any testing, We are going to phone to ask if the testing has been done, and if he has proof..this is going to be a big disappointment to my kids if it has not been done..we are now considering asking them to test and we will pay for it (not sure if they will), how instant/quick can a vet diagnose ??



Sorry but I do not see why on earth you should offer to pay for the tests which should have been done by the breeder. This breeder should not be selling puppies at all until he has tested his breeding dogs.
I know it is so hard to do but I would urge all buyers to walk away from this man at the moment. It's the only way to make things change.
The test itself is a simple blood test but has to be sent to either optigen lab in USA or labakolin lab in Germany I believe. It can take weeks.


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## JoJo

Yes a few weeks for the test results to come back ..

I am sorry to hear that your kids may be upset if you dont go for this puppy, but the puppies health really is important. Basically breeding dogs when breeding cockapoos should be DNA tested for prcd-PRA, makes sure you see proof and that it is DNA not just BVA eye tests (another form of eye testing, but DNA testing is clearer when it comes to PRA), you want to see at least one parent DNA Clear and this way your puppy can only be Clear or a Carrier of PRA, a carrier will not be affected by the condition but when breeding Carriers extra care must be taken .. for example a Carrier bred to a Carrier can produce a litter outcome of 25% Clear pups, 50% Carrier pups and the sad bit is 25% Affected pups.. the affected pups can suffer from PRA and possibably go blind over time. You wouldn't want this for any dog  

Any concerns please ask .. we will all help you  

My advice to see the paperwork and be happy or walk away ... but I appreciate this is easier said than done. Really feel for you.


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## Mr G

Good point Karen, I should have found this site before we went down and looked, my kids are all excited and you do get carried away with the moment.
Hopefully this man has changed his ways and has the paperwork, If he hasn't we will walk away..
It has been difficult to find a breeder up here in Aberdeen....


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## ElaineR

wellerfeller said:


> Sorry but I do not see why on earth you should offer to pay for the tests which should have been done by the breeder. This breeder should not be selling puppies at all until he has tested his breeding dogs.
> I know it is so hard to do but I would urge all buyers to walk away from this man at the moment. It's the only way to make things change.
> The test itself is a simple blood test but has to be sent to either optigen lab in USA or labakolin lab in Germany I believe. It can take weeks.


Oh Mr G I feel so sorry for the turmoil you will all be experiencing, I really do sympathise. You never know, maybe Gordon has done the right thing and started testing.. Bobby will be 8 come August and I know he def was still not testing after bring informed by me and others that we had affected dogs!!! I still have the papers he supplied with both parents names.... In fact thats all we came away with.. No first injection, advice, puppy packs etc which I believe is now the norm. I can't remember how long it took for Bobby's DNA results but it was kinda different for him as he was older and already showing signs of going blind, and the specialist more or less told us he was certain it was PRA... That's when we researched it and realised the devastating outcome


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## ElaineR

wellerfeller said:


> You have obviously done so well for him, he sounds like he gets to enjoy life. He is a lucky boy some owners would not have been able to cope with the amount of work required to get their dogs confidence back!
> Can we see some pics of your boy?


Hi Karen I've finally managed to upload a photo of Bobby, I'm a bit slow at this technology, it's just one photo so far, but I'll get there lol,.. It's in photo gallery


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## JoJo

Well done Elaine, hey I struggle with techy things and always ask my hubby for help  Your Bobby is a scrummy choccy cockapoo, what a lovely surprise as choc is one of my fave colours  Thank you for adding a photo of him.


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## wellerfeller

I will go take a look right now! Thanks


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## wellerfeller

What a gorgeous dark choccy he is! Bless him. X


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## Mr G

jonro99 said:


> I am going to check again with the breeder and ask for papers if he says they have been tested. If they haven't I will still take the puppy and have him tested myself. I would rather give him a living home than not take him.


Did you manage to find out if he had the papers..I have been trying all day to phone him without success..


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## mandym

Mr G said:


> Did you manage to find out if he had the papers..I have been trying all day to phone him without success..


If you look earlier in this post someone else who is getting a puppy from gordon says she asked him and he said he has not eye tested then went on to say he had never had any problems with his dogs( totally untrue and he knows it) so as far as im aware he still does not eye test. x


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## 3boys1pup

Post removed


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## ElaineR

3boys1pup said:


> I have just read this post and am devastated for those with affected puppies, those mis-sold puppies and those of you who were expecting to pick up a puppy and now do not know what to do.
> 
> 
> All I can say is that no matter how much you/your kids have fallen for a pup, that is nothing compared to how you will feel once that cute puppy is in your home. Better to walk away now and find another pup than have your kids suffer the heartache down the line.
> 
> I travelled a few hours for Coco even though we had clser breeders. To be frank, a day out of your life travelling to see a pup/breeder then once more to collect him/her is nothing in the lifetime of your dog.
> 
> That said, I feel sick thinking of the pup you will leave behind.
> 
> Its a shitty situation whichever way you look at it.
> 
> x


I know, it is so sad, and I truly feel for these families but I completely agree with you. :/


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## jonro99

*My new pup!*

Hi Mr G

Sorry for the late reply. We have picked up Alfie on saturday he is perfect, we had him at the vet yesterday and the vet said he is 100 percent healthy at the moment. The anatomy of his eyes looks good although that means nothing regarding PRA. he is settling in very well I'm very happy although I think I need to buy him a clock to tell him went to get up!

I'm very upset and annoyed at some of the comments written regarding Gordon, he has been nothing but helpful, truthful and professional. On meeting him, his dogs are happy healthy and very social. He is very passionate about his dogs and the work he does. he spent a good hour with us answering our questions and giving us advice, he gave us plenty of food and information about alfie and his parents. His dogs ARE tested but only after finding out about the bad mouthing on this forum. He does not need to do this and has only done it to clear his reputation which has now been called into question on here. 

I would highly recommend Gordon and his dogs, however if you decide not to go ahead and collect your puppy, which I have seen and they are very happy and healthy looking maybe Mandy could sell you a dog as I believe she is a breeder be prepared to pay more!

Sadly, I won't be using this forum anymore, which is a shame as it would have been a good source of help and advice from some clearly knowledgeable people. I just do not want to be part of thread that bad mouths an individual and soils a good reputation.


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## wellerfeller

I don't think you can call people telling of their experiences bad mouthing! They have PRA affected dogs as living proof.
I am glad Gordon has been able to show you proof of his dogs health tests, that was a really quick turn around from which ever lab he used, that's really good.
It's a bit of a shame he only got them done after hearing about the posts on this forum, I would think the main reason to get them donewould be to breed nice healthy puppies, not to shut people up but hey at least they are done. You can now relax and enjoy life with your new dog knowing he will never go blind through PRA, what a relief!
I wish you lots of fun with your pup.


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## Jedicrazy

Couldn't agree with you more Karen. ElaineR bought a puppy from Gordon and it went blind with PRA. This is fact, not badmouthing and it's ridiculous to say otherwise! People on this forum are trying to help and inform puppy searchers so they don't end up with a blind dog. 

Jono99, I'm glad your breeder Gordon has now done the tests (and hopefully shown you the certificates as proof) so you can now get on with enjoying your lovely new puppy knowing it won't go blind. If this thread has "forced" Gordon to do the right thing and do the testing, then good! If he's the caring breeder you say he is then he would have done the tests long ago and ElaineR wouldn't have a blind dog...

!t's a shame you don't want to participate any more but's thats your choice. I expect you will look anyway as there is tons of helpful stuff on here and loads of people more than willing to help. Enjoy life with your new puppy.


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## jonro99

Thank you Karen

We are still waiting for the results of the tests at the moment. Fingers crossed for good results. I appreciate what you are saying but I still feel some things did not need to be said. Any how like you said the good thing is that they have been tested.


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## wellerfeller

I hope the results are favourable. Please share the good news when it comes in 
Good luck.


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## JoJo

Such a shame you feel this way and that you dont want to be part of this forum, as it is fun and I hope you have a rethink and continue to be a member. People were just sharing their experiences and views about DNA testing, dogs going blind and PRA, which is always quite a serious topic. 

Your puppy does look gorgeous and I really do hope his health remains excellent throughout his life, but the sad part is, you will not know until the DNA tests are confirmed, which your breeder will do, and I truly hope the results are good for your puppy and you. 

Hope you have a rethink and stay on the forum as you can share your own cockapoo experiences with other lovely dog owners


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## mandym

Well jon all i can say is that has got to be one of the most immature posts i have read on this forum.One of the owners who has a dogs affected( i also looka fter one) came on here and opened her heart so she could warn people about buying from untested parents.Maby you will be lucky maby you wont but jon THAT is why you paid a low price for your puppy because believe me i would rather pay a high price than to keep a puppy farmer who is too greedy to eye test in business,sorry but im glad you wont be using this forum again if yu have an attitude like that! Gordon could definately not have dna tested any of his dogs because it wouldve taken a lot longer for the results and 2 bva tested dogs can still both be carriers resulting in affected pups,one needs to be dna tested.To eye test just to keep forum members that are concerned quiet is disgusting,it shouldve been done long before he started breeding!!!


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## ElaineR

I would be interested to know what you think should not have been said? I'm very upset that you have decided that I am on here to vent a personal vendetta against Gordon.. If that had been my intention I would have done it a long time ago.... I don't think anyone should be expected to be playing a game of Russian roulette when It comes to the health of their precious puppies!!! I understand that emotions are running high as it is a very emotive topic but at no point was the intention to upset people.. Only to advise potential owners. 
As others have said it is a very quick turn around that he has decided to test... Pity he didn't think to do this without feeling he had to ... or lose business... But for whatever reason, it is now good news that he is.. I truely hope the news for Alfie is good news!!


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## JoJo

Jonro, As you can see from the above posts, all of the members of this forum are simply cockapoo lovers that truly care about the breed, and this thread was created to show the important of DNA testing for PRA. A lovely member of this forum has had to go through her cockapoo going blind due to no health or not adequate testing and I thank her for sharing her experience. 
It was all about raising awareness of not breeding dogs that go blind. 
Like I said before, I and I am sure everyone else on here hopes your puppy has a long, active and healthy life. 
But in all honesty would I buy a puppy from Elaine’s breeder or the other breeder that was apparently a GB cockapoo club member that possibly lying about health testing, no I wouldn’t, as I would simply be too worried about the heartache it would cause to watch a dog possibly go blind. I would not consider a breeder that didn’t DNA test for PRA.


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## dmgalley

This thread makes me wish I could go back in time. Poor Jake. I pray he will be ok  and I am so glad I listened to you all and got Willow from someone who tests. I even lost a deposit I had with another breeder and paid 700$ more with the shipping cost and I am so glad I did. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## JhonDuk

Such a shame you feel this way and that you dont want to be part of this forum, as it is fun and I hope you have a rethink and continue to be a member. People were just sharing their experiences and views about DNA testing, dogs going blind and PRA, which is always quite a serious topic.

Your puppy does look gorgeous and I really do hope his health remains excellent throughout his life, but the sad part is, you will not know until the DNA tests are confirmed, which your breeder will do, and I truly hope the results are good for your puppy and you.

Hope you have a rethink and stay on the forum as you can share your own cockapoo experiences with other lovely dog owners


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## ElaineR

I too hope that his puppy is healthy .. I don't doubt for a second that it is absolutely gorgeous, I've not met a cockapoo yet that isn't gorgeous... I did not set out to 'bad mouth' the breeder... Only to inform prospective buyers that he had not tested in the past.. And he would be more than welcome to challenge this 'fact' ... Just come visit my boy!!!!! I certainly would challenge the fact that Jonro claimed that Gordon was nothing but 'truthful' with him.... He was informed that he had produced pups which had been diagnosed with PRA years ago... And this did not prompt him to start testing back then... He now decides to do it because he is apparently being bad mouthed on here ... Well at the end of the day.. If after all that's been said, he is now testing?.... In my opinion, about time too!!!!!!!


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## mandym

Just a quick update,i met yet another blind cockapoo yesteday, a 6 year old girl possibly related to bobby although the owners couldnt remember the parents names but definately from gordon,they too informed gordon as soon as she was diagnosed so it seems there are more creeping out of the woodwork.Unless gordon has dna tested all his studs at least i would go elsewhere for a puppy,sounds harsh but the reality is that if he only bva tests the risks of still producing affected pups are still incredibly high xxx


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## ElaineR

mandym said:


> Just a quick update,i met yet another blind cockapoo yesteday, a 6 year old girl possibly related to bobby although the owners couldnt remember the parents names but definately from gordon,they too informed gordon as soon as she was diagnosed so it seems there are more creeping out of the woodwork.Unless gordon has dna tested all his studs at least i would go elsewhere for a puppy,sounds harsh but the reality is that if he only bva tests the risks of still producing affected pups are still incredibly high xxx


Quite possibly the same parents as Bobby... scary how many might actually be out there, makes me very sad that people out there have gorgeous puppies from him and like us will be enjoying life with their gorgeous dog, not knowing that somewhere along the line, in the years to come, this devastating eye condition will take hold!!!!


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## wellerfeller

What a shame, poor dog and owners 

I am so grateful for you sharing Elaine as I believe this thread really will help many owners in their search for a puppy. It disturbs me deeply that this breeder knows and has known for many years that his pups were being affected by PRA and has done nothing about it until a possibility of a fall in sales,due to the postings on here has pushed him into testing ( hopefully DNA) bad breeders and puppy farmers do not come complete with a cloak and an evil look, they can and do come across as very caring, knowledgable and personable. It's easy to fool people that are so keen and obviously wanting a puppy, they know full well 9 times out of ten hearts will rule heads and the sale will go through and that I am afraid is all they are interested in. I very much doubt this breeder has followed up and enquired about the failing health of the puppies reported to him!
I do hope these recent pups are proven to be safe from PRA but if anyone reads this thread and still proceeds with buying a pup, without seeing a certificate declaring a clear DNA status for PRA from at least one parent dog,then more fool you. You will be playing a game of Russian roulette with your dogs eyesight, a game not worth playing.


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## ElaineR

It's a sad fact that as long as there are people out there willing to buy from these breeders .... Even when they have all these facts available to them... Which quite frankly truly baffles me....then they will continue to breed and make money from pups which are not always healthy. These people in my opinion, who appear on the surface caring and knowledgable about their dogs... Have absolutely no scruples whatsoever!!


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## JoJo

Thank you Elaine for sharing your experience on this forum and for being so open about Bobby's condition. Also thank you Mandy for letting us know their are other dogs suffering from blindness due to being PRA affected. 

This thread and other threads on this forum have had over 3500 views, so people are being made aware for this type of breeding now and also know the important of DNA tested parents for PRA.

All cockapoo breeders should really be DNA testing their breeding dogs, it's simply for the puppies sake and long term health .. if not testing, yes it is bad and lazy breeding. DNA testing is not a new thing and has been available for years.


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## Mr G

Ok Guy's we have had our Ollie from Gordon for around 3 weeks now and he is a boisterous little boy but we all love him so much, his temperament is so good..I have kept in touch with Gordon and have just today had confirmation that all his dogs (parents) are clear from PRA ..so anyone who has doubts about Gordon Guildy Den can be now be rest assured that his dogs are clear...

All through from initial meet and then picking up our puppy and follow up advice has been nothing short of great...

Maybe now we can now stop giving Guildy Den such a hard time..


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## wellerfeller

Mr G said:


> Ok Guy's we have had our Ollie from Gordon for around 3 weeks now and he is a boisterous little boy but we all love him so much, his temperament is so good..I have kept in touch with Gordon and have just today had confirmation that all his dogs (parents) are clear from PRA ..so anyone who has doubts about Gordon Guildy Den can be now be rest assured that his dogs are clear...
> 
> All through from initial meet and then picking up our puppy and follow up advice has been nothing short of great...
> 
> Maybe now we can now stop giving Guildy Den such a hard time..


If that is a clear DNA test result that is brilliant news. A BVA test does not mean the same thing. The two tests should not be confused. Only the DNA test is a guarantee.


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## mandym

Gordon has a huge amount of dogs so i dont think he will have dna tested them all,i suspect the parents of this particular litter will have been bva tested but if he has dna tested them then at least some of the pups he sells wont be afftected.Mr g you are not the one who has a blind dog with hip dysplasia but elaine is so please try and see her point of view,she has every right to give this breeder a hard time because several owners told him ther dogs were blind and it took this forum for him to take action simply because if he didnt people would stop buying pups,if it werent for this forum im pretty sure he wouldnt have bothered x


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## Mr G

Off course I see her point of view and would not wish that upon anyone !! I just wanted let the forum know that the DNA test results have came back clear..(on the parents) and yes DNA results not a BVA test.


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## mandym

Im glad some good has come out of this post then.Lets hope he gets round to dna testing all his breeding dogs to prevent this happening again x


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## wellerfeller

Thanks for letting us know. That will be a relief to lots of puppy owners.


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## 3boys1pup

Post removed


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## ElaineR

Mr G said:


> Ok Guy's we have had our Ollie from Gordon for around 3 weeks now and he is a boisterous little boy but we all love him so much, his temperament is so good..I have kept in touch with Gordon and have just today had confirmation that all his dogs (parents) are clear from PRA ..so anyone who has doubts about Gordon Guildy Den can be now be rest assured that his dogs are clear...
> 
> All through from initial meet and then picking up our puppy and follow up advice has been nothing short of great...
> 
> Maybe now we can now stop giving Guildy Den such a hard time..


'Mr G' if you have had confirmation and seen the proof of this DNA test then I am delighted for your pup, however, 'rest assured' I will never be when it has taken all these years and possibly this forum to 'encourage' him to do these tests. I personally know 4 of his dogs now blind and diagnosed with PRA... I'm sure an awful lot more in the next few years will pop up. Because he ignored the warning that he was breeding with affected dog there could be as many as 50 blind dogs in the north east of Scotland.... that would make an interesting reunion wouldn't it just!!!!!Think I'm being a little harsh on him?? Come visit me and see the reality of years watching a gorgeous fur ball who started life off as a 'boisterous little boy' walk into walls.. Cower at the rustle of trees, Tripping down kerbs etc etc.... when he should still be running around freely chasing balls and playing with his doggy friends!!!!!!!...


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## colpa110

:iagree::iagree: Well said - I can only imagine the daily heart break.


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## Tressa

I have just read these posts and feel such sadness for you and for the little dog. I can think of nothing else to say - too horrified at the moment to compose a coherent sentence.


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## ElaineR

colpa110 said:


> :iagree::iagree: Well said - I can only imagine the daily heart break.


Colin there is heartbreak but also a lot of joy.. He's amazing and makes me smile every day!! May have lost his sight, but not his quirky personality.. The most loveable and loyal dog I've ever had!! Fab breed.. Just infuriating when his condition is totally avoidable:0(


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## DavidH

*Thanks, but I am still not sure...*

We are slowly coming around to welcoming a dog into our family and are carefully doing as much research as we can. 

I stumbled upon this thread and have certainly had my eyes opened. We have two close friends with pups from this breeder, and I have no idea how aware of all this they are. 

What I will say, is that I am gutted that the only person who can set the record straight for all future buyers is the breeder...So until I see a public statement regarding the testing and how this related to ALL pups for sale I will not be going near the place.

The breeders silence on this issues says it all for me, and well done to the admin who kept this thread live and sticky!

Many thanks to everyone who has posted so openly about such a contentious and emotionally charged issue. 

David.


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## ElaineR

David I'm glad you find the posts on this useful to your research, I really hope it has not put you off the breed:/ they are truely amazing wee dogs and I would have another one tomorrow.. If my hubby would let me (hint hint) this condition can affect many breeds and you are doing the right thing by finding out as much information as you can before choosing the right pup for your family. Hopefully you will be welcoming a little fur baby into your fold very soon X


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## mandym

Hi David Welcome to the forum.Cockapoos are wonderful dogs,the best advice i can give you is to make sure at least one parent has been dna tested and not just bva tested.If one parents is dna clear then pups will not be affected.Good luck in your search xxx


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## DavidH

*Not put off at all*

Thanks for the warm welcome. No, not put off at all, just massively better informed. 

I haven't found it yet, but I could do with being pointed in the direction of a list of appropriate breeders, either as a reply or private message, if anyone can help. Somewhere between the Lakes and Inverness would be useful. I am in Dundee. 

Have a good one. 

David.


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## kirstycam

mandym said:


> Im glad some good has come out of this post then.Lets hope he gets round to dna testing all his breeding dogs to prevent this happening again x


Hi 

I have test results for both parent's of my pup stanley who was from an earlier litter from Guildy Den. Both parents are DNA tested clear.


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## mandym

Tonight i recieved a phone call from Gordon smith.We didnt get off to a good start,both of us angry for different reasons but i am so glad he called.I explained that we were not out to slander him but he had to understand why these people with affected dogs were angry.He admitted he recieved a call from an owner a few years ago and did nothing about it BUT he also felt remorse and wished he could turn the clock back,he has dna tested all his breeding dog,offered to send me proof which i refused because i do believe him.To admit to a mistake like that does take guts and only good has come out of this post,for that i am very happy,thats all we ever wanted


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## ElaineR

mandym said:


> Tonight i recieved a phone call from Gordon smith.We didnt get off to a good start,both of us angry for different reasons but i am so glad he called.I explained that we were not out to slander him but he had to understand why these people with affected dogs were angry.He admitted he recieved a call from an owner a few years ago and did nothing about it BUT he also felt remorse and wished he could turn the clock back,he has dna tested all his breeding dog,offered to send me proof which i refused because i do believe him.To admit to a mistake like that does take guts and only good has come out of this post,for that i am very happy,thats all we ever wanted


Well as you may all have realised I was in fact the person who called Gordon years ago to inform him my beloved puppy had gone blind... And he did in fact ignore this information and carry on breeding. However, I do believe he IS now testing his dogs and as much as the clock cannot be turned back, this is great news!!!!!! As Mandy says this was never about slander. it was just to help new owners be aware of the importance of DNA testing!!! I am so thankful that at least in this case Gordon may now be a responsible breeder!!!!!!... And Gordon? Thanks for finally admitting you did wrong, but a bigger thanks for finally doing the right thing by your puppies and this wonderful breed X


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## wellerfeller

So great to hear Gordon has stepped up and DNA tested all his dogs. It's good that the free speech and posting of owners stories has ensured that others buying from this breeder will not go through the same stress and worry, regarding PRA. 
Fantastic!


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## DavidH

There really is nothing more powerful than a human story! Thanks to everyone who has posted and contacted me through PM since my first post. It is delightful news about the testing. I am sure it will be a comfort to prospective owners who like me are researching the breed and breeders. I suppose as a novice I would have assumed that basic simple precautionary steps would always have been taken.

Much wiser :


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## ElaineR

DavidH said:


> There really is nothing more powerful than a human story! Thanks to everyone who has posted and contacted me through PM since my first post. It is delightful news about the testing. I am sure it will be a comfort to prospective owners who like me are researching the breed and breeders. I suppose as a novice I would have assumed that basic simple precautionary steps would always have been taken.
> 
> Much wiser :


Hi David, are you any closer to adding a fur baby to your family?


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## TraceyT33

Hi, ive read all this thread with interest and I am so happy that this breeder has now tested all his breeding dogs. This thread is certainly worth a read to fully inform people about what they need to know before buying a cockapoo. That is all anybody wants when doing their research. Prior to deciding on a breeder, I researched as I felt it was vital to ensure any breeder I chose was doing all they could do produce healthy puppies. All the information regarding testing is something you need to be aware of and I was so happy to find this forum. I love this forum and my Millie is 1 on 20th June and I still come on and read and post threads. Thank you ILMC forum and all the wonderful people on here that contribute xxxx


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## garrob

*Guildy Farm*

Hello, We have been searching for a Cockapoo for a while now and was reccomended to Gordon Smith of Guildy Farm, I did a search this morning as I had no idea it was called Guildy Farm I just had his name.
I came across these threads about dna testing, I did know about it and I am quite nervous now after reading all the posts.
Could someone tell me if I ask for paperwork to see if they have been tested, how do I know that it will be the same dogs he is showing me paperwork for?.
We are going to see them this week as they will be just over 6 weeks old - my kids will be devastated if all is not well.
This is my first post and our first dog as a family and we are so excited, hope someone can give me some advice.
Many Thanks


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## Tressa

Wouldn't presume to offer advice, but in my opinion this breeder seems to have stepped up to the plate and did the right thing regarding dna testing.I am sure that any breeder would expect you to see evidence of testing, and as he has had trouble in the past it seems to me that you should be more reassured now that all is well with his breeding practises. He offered to show MandyM proof, so I can't see you will have any problems. This is just my opinion, so good luck if you go ahead with your visit . There is a lot of info elsewhere on the forum about what to look for on your visit to a breeder, so have a wee look. Keep us posted!


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## RachelAlice

Hello, 
I got a cockapoo from the same breeder and he was born on February the 16th 2013 so is of the same litter as some of the dogs I've just read about. Does anyone else have problems with aggression? My cockapoo is getting to be very aggressive despite telling him off and giving him the appropriate treatment and punishment!
Any help would greatly be appreciated!
Rachel xx


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## kendal

Exactly what is happening when you see the agrasson . sometimes owners miss read the dog and jump strate to agresson. 

is it food, toys, stolen items, grooming, other dogs, other people, only certen members of tye family, is he dominating the couch or bead, is it for attention. 

what exactly.happens. what are you doing before he starts and how do you respond

sometime you can be too close to the situation and cant see what the problem is maning you mistake it for something els.


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## RachelAlice

He is very possessive aggressive, as in say he finds something that's not his he will run off with it and will not drop it, he will growl and snap for ages and will not give the item up and I can't even attempt to get it from him or he will pounce on me. He is completely fine letting me take his toys and items he knows he can have. He knows fine well his is being bad but continues to do it
Same kinda aggression (snapping, growling etc) happens when it's bed time and he refuses to go to bed.
It's very frustrating considering he knows he's being naughty 
I may just have to contact a dog trainer 

Rachel


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## kendal

I always give the same advise when it comes to a snappy dog, get a cheep lead cut it about half way(have it longer if you feel you need it you just don't want the loop on the end) and leave it on him, just let him drag it round the house. The lead is very helpful as it gives you controle but let's you keep you distance. So you hands rant in the firing line. 

Set up a situation rather than wait of it to happen, leave something out that he will be tempted to take. Once he has it get hold of the lead, this means you can controle him if he decides to lunge or snap. 

Have something of high value, something he loves be it a treat or a toy, but it must be more important to him than the object he has stollen. 
You are basically training, the same way you teach a dog the fetch, only with that the reward is that the ball only gets throne again if they bring it back. 

What happens at bed time, what do you do befor he is ment to go to bed, where does he sleep. 

. 
Where abouts are you?


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