# Elliott Update



## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi all,

Today is day 3 with little Elliott. Or is it 4? My brain is mush. We are exhaaaaaaausted. He is the sweetest little pup and loves us to death. He'll just lay on me and fall right asleep. My heart's been stolen.

But we are having a tough time with bedtime. He wakes up throughout the night and it's hard to know if it's because he has to "go" or if he's just still not settled in. I ignore some of his cries, but if it's been a while, we let him out to pee. 

Here in Michigan, it is FREEZING. I've tried getting him to pee outside but he is so cold. It's in the teens at night; 30s during the day, though it's going up to 40 today. 

I've been using pee pads in his pen and playpen and he's on the mark, now. But at yesterday's first vet appt, she said pee pads were no-no's and to get him used to going outside.

He is tiny. 11 weeks today and 4 pounds. So it's hard to predict when he has to pee. 

We are at a loss. Oh, and he's crying his heart out as I type because he's in a different room in his pen. I try and ignore it and reward him when he's quiet. But wow, I don't recall it being so hard with a new pup.

Anyone else using pee pads and successfuly transferring their dog to the yard? Or should I bite the bullet and forget the pee pads? I just know he won't go when it's bitter cold, especially at night. When do you ignore the nighttime cries and when do you take them out to go?

Here's a pix taken Saturday when we brought him home. That's my youngest daughter holding him.









...and here's the photo album I'm putting together for him:
http://s848.photobucket.com/albums/ab42/terrym2442/Elliott Pix to Share/

Any advice from the experts here? I'm soooo tired and unsure how to move forward with his training.


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

lol remember its a big transition for him too. he has never been away from his litter before. 

for prdicting when he needs to pee: after as sleep(as soon as he wakes up) after a drink, after eating, after playing. 

not a masive fan of puppy pads as i feel they just teach them to pee in the house, but in the middle of the night i dont see that big a deal using them. 

is their a set time he is crying at(remember he is a baby and had a tiny blader) makesure he pees before bed, when you do take him out for pees dont talk to him other than maybe a pee command and a 'good boy' then right back to bed without talking to him. maybe keep a kong filled so when you put him back to bed he has something to focas on rather than crying. 

he looks lovely, all puppys are hard work, you just need to settle back into it. what does you portie think of him?


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Been waiting patiently to hear out it is going and can see you have your work cut out for you. I looked at your album and he is soooo sweet, such a beautiful colour.

Now don't get too hung up on the vets opinion and there are loads of ways to house train and just about all of them will work!

I actually did what you are doing with Elliot as we brought Flo home in January and it was simply too cold to hang about outdoors waiting for her to wee.

I got a large garden seed tray that was the same size as the puppy pad to put the pad in then would put her there regularly and treat her when she did a wee. I used the words 'hurry up' every time she was doing one and she soon learnt what the command meant. If I replaced the pad I pressed the new one a little on the used one so it kept the wee scent which helped her return to the tray. I moved the tray to different places still using the 'hurry up' command to generalise the command a bit - that way she learnt it was the tray that matters not the area of the room. If she had any accidents out of the tray I sprayed it with 'Get off' to take away the scent and stop her returning to the spot. Now I can't remember the bit where she just started going outside as it was that straight forward! I think I just let her out and said 'hurry up' and she just knew the command and I took her tray away indoors so she didn't go indoors since she learnt she only wee'd indoors in the tray. She had her tray in the utility room at night but then just naturally started to hold on till I let her out in the morning.

Can't help much with the night crying as I was strict about this having only just got my nights (and my bed) back after 3 children. Flo just had a crate (full of cuddly things and a hot water bottle), a small bowl of water and her tray with puppy pad in the utility room and I shut the door and couldn't hear her!! Ahhhhh poor old Flo!!!!! But if you do want him in your bedroom or you want to get up in the night others may be able to suggest regimes that worked for them.

Enjoy Elliot - he looks super


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh my heavens, what a little sweetheart Yes, I know what you are going through, as will most of us on here. Its only a few months since we were at exactly the same stage as you, but now I have got over my nervous breakdown, haha, we are so much more relaxed with our boy. But I remember it so well. Spend the first few weeks with a puppy clamped to parts of my anatomy with his teeth I never separated myself from him at all when he was so tiny. And yes, I did use pee pads for a little while, and it didn't really keep Teddy back from house training. When it is so very cold maybe a peepad just inside the door for him to use? Just to save him freezing to death! Michigan sounds like a mighty cold place at the moment.
He is the most adorable wee thing, and you are going to have such fun with him. Good luck in these erly days - they will pass!!


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Very Adorable...I know what you mean about the cold...I am north of you....in Canada, Toronto area...so let me just tell you that...he will definetly pee if he has to pee. Lady wouldn't at first...but then got used to it. they will be able to handle the cold...we got lady at about the same age...she didn't want to the first few nights...but I dont think it had anything to do with the cold...but more that she didn't know she was supposed to do it outside....she would wait till we got inside and then pee, eventually she would pee right at the door, and then one day she just got it and now she pees outside...it took longer for her than alot of the pups on here i think....but trust me on the cold issue he will be ok....Lady actually go so accustomed to peeing on the snow that when it started to melt she would search it out to take a pee. Dress warm yourself...it is probably worse for you than him 
he is very adorable! I love his name...and his colours!!!


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh wow, he is so adorable. I can't give you much advice about the toilet training except to agree that you will probably hate the cold more than him. We value our sleep so much that at first we just put Dylan downstairs where there is laminate flooring and cleaned up in the morning. We just concentrated on toilet training during the daytime! But it was hard to get him trained at night doing it that way, even though we didn't lose any sleep.
You are much stronger willed than me keeping him in another room - I'd have to have him with me all the time - I'm like mummy and baby when they're little. In fact come to think of it I'm still like that now! My pup is my constant companion! Have you tried his crate in the room where you're working? Hope your exhaustion eases!


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Oh my goodness - he is beautiful! Puppy fate - I told you!

I agree with the others. Not using puppy pads seems to be the way everyone is told to do it nowadays, but back in the day when people used to use newspaper, they didn't end up with un-trained dogs, so it must work! And if you lived in an apartment, it would be the only way. Whatever floats your boat, I say. 

If you google 'paper training' and 'puppy', you'll find lots of sites that will help.

Hey, Michigan - isn't that where Buddy the cocker spaniel with the world's longest eyelashes is from?


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## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

ahhh he is soooo cute! and tiny!
I agree with the advice above... I think you're going to have to take him out if you want him to learn, unfortunately. It's also just the beginning... he will get more used to going out in the cold as he gets used to living with you guys.


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

Aww, so so cute 

It's still pretty cold here, cold enough that our snow hasn't melted away yet. Not much of a spring so far. Anyway, we never used pee pads because it was too complicated in my mind, one more step, and I am lazy. I figured since we live in a cold climate, the dog might as well get used to it early  We just took Chloe out constantly it seemed and praised her when she went. She was only 8 weeks when we got her and back then she needed to go out twice a night. It WAS exhausting. It just needs to click for them. I think you are doing the right thing, ignoring some of the cries, taking him out for others. I don't think there is one "right" way to do it, do what works for your family. He will be trained in the end, no matter what!

Chloe STILL whines sometimes when she is left alone in a room . She "needs" people near. We spend as much time with her as we can, but sometimes you just have to do things. So much like having a real baby...


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Kel said:


> So much like having a real baby...


Except for one important thing - nappies!!!


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

weez74 said:


> Except for one important thing - nappies!!!


lol but if they had nappies/diapers....we would have had less messes on the floor!! haha joking that would be gross


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

weez74 said:


> Except for one important thing - nappies!!!


haha, but they have diapers for dogs too if you want/need them, right??!! Actually, I just googled it...and they even have diapers for BIRDS!! What did I do before google, all the things I didn't know!


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Kel said:


> haha, but they have diapers for dogs too if you want/need them, right??!! Actually, I just googled it...and they even have diapers for BIRDS!! What did I do before google, all the things I didn't know!


What, like Budgies? I hope there are pictures - I'm off to google it now.


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## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

weez74 said:


> What, like Budgies? I hope there are pictures - I'm off to google it now.


Keep us posted ahahaha :laugh:


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

weez74 said:


> What, like Budgies? I hope there are pictures - I'm off to google it now.


Haha, yes there ARE pictures! Wow.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

OKay, that's just weird.


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## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

Oh my lord, I shouldn't have googled that. That's even worse than puppy diapers.


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

parapluie said:


> Oh my lord, I shouldn't have googled that. That's even worse than puppy diapers.


Haha, sorry, I had to share once I saw it! I still don't believe it.


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## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

Kel said:


> Haha, sorry, I had to share once I saw it! I still don't believe it.


ahaha no worries, share the bad imagery  I just don't understand how one would put that on... or how the bird would deal with it... maybe I'm just not really a bird person


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## caradunne (Nov 29, 2010)

So funny - It is amazing how quickly these threads deteriorate!

Izzy was so poorly for two months that we had to use the puppy pads. It did take a real effort to train her to use the garden but we succeeded in the end.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats strange


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## francesjl (Mar 24, 2011)

I used the pads with both of mine, would put to bed around 11.30pm after going outside then was very strict and left them till about 6.30am !
Rascal cried for 2 nights then stopped, Scamp cried for 3 nights, they soon both learnt to use the pads at night and when they were 3 mths I stopped putting the pads down. Both had a couple of accidents but were soon fine. Obviously as they grow their bladders can hold more so they last longer !
There was usually someone around in the day keeping an eye out, the trick is to be alert, as soon as they start sniffing they usually need to go so quickly out and lots of praise !
Good luck !


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Such great feedback from you veterans. You'd think I'd know how to do this by now, since I've had dogs my whole life and have a 2 1/2 yr old that was trained without pads. But she came to us in the summer, so it was way easier.

Still not sure where to go with this. Today is a tad warmer, so I'm putting a pee pad outside and after about 10 minutes, he hit the target with a wee. But as soon as I put him back in his pen, he pooed on a pad there.

He's almost always with me. In fact, he's sleeping on my lap right now. I have a playpen set up here in my home office, and that is helping. But he's soooo attached to me. I'm happy- that's what I had hoped for in a dog. But he'll also have to learn that it's ok when mommy isn't always around.

I'm also spending time having him tethered to me with his leash so I can read his signs. But he's so tiny, I cannot tell when he's about to pee. He's too close to the ground. LOL-

I know things will sort out, but yes...it IS like having a newborn without diapers. 

Keep thise ideas coming, though. I appreciate hearing how you've dealt with this.

Oh, re: my Portie- she is great! The only problem is she doesn't realize her size, so I have to watch that she doesn't step on little Elliott. She already sat on him accidently. That didn't go over too well with E!


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## Emmy (Jan 18, 2011)

I got my puppy Jan. 17 and we are in Iowa.

She needs to out at least once an hour all day. Keep a log. I was going out in -20F wind chill.

Pull the water up at night. I go to bed at 11:00 and pull it up at 8:30. I got up once in the night to take her out. Even in a blizzard.  I so wanted to use the pads, but was told that I would have to start over to train for outside. She didn't want anything to do with the pads anyway.

Have something you can toss on quickly and scoot out.

I was taking Stella out 24 times per day at first. Now it is much less. 

When you take her out, same place each time - saying only "potty" and "get busy". I liked to separate potty and play for a while.

Good luck! It gets easier. 

Jan


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Jan,
I can't believe you faced that kind of weather. Guess I'm a real wimp! Now that it's warming up here (40s today), I've been taking him out a LOT. One success only, though.

Did you have a specific time you took her out at night? Did she whine before that? What did you do?

How's her training going now? They're less than a week apart- Elliott was born on 1-11.

Where did you get Stella? She's beautiful! How big is she??


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

lol if you think thats weaird you should look at this lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IrlhLF1c3k


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

Wow, Kendal... I wonder if that is for real? Seems like almost just as much work as picking it up off the ground...not to mention that it looks embarrasing


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## marzy (Aug 20, 2010)

omg
thats so odd
marzy


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

OH MY WOW!!! TAHT IS MENTAL! and they show them outside...like okay maybe if you had a senior dog who just couldn't hold it at all...but come on....what dog would actually go!


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## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

I know 'Lo wouldn't go in that 'poo trap'  I can just picture her look of horror lol.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> Now that it's warming up here (40s today), I've been taking him out a LOT. One success only, though.
> 
> D


If possible, (especially during the day when it's not so cold!), try to stay outside and give the command (go potty or whatever) that you have chosen until he does something. Then you can give the command and loads of praise and an immediate treat. He will then learn quite quickly to go on command which makes things much easier. I used to take Dylan out about every hour and after food. The quicker he learns to associate weeing or pooing with the command, the better.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Hi Terry he is simply gorgeous x Can only offer much of the same really. We got Mable in Nov and have been through snow and ice and -14 which is very cold for us ... actually the rain was worse cos everyines soaked. We did nt bother with Pads just out after everything, sleeping, eating,playing at first it was like others have said probably every hour and agian with a command and loads of praise, just ignore an accident and clean it up . You start to notice times and patterns and the times do get longer. If Mable cried in the night we got up and let her outside without talking, fusing and once she'd wee'd staight back to bed...In the short term as Mable went longer ( she didnt wake every night) but Wilf learnt if I call you'll come not what we'd planned but soon stopped. Just like having a new baby absolutely shattering initially ... I felt like excusing myself to people and explaining my sleep deprived look ... like with babies though its trial and error finding what works for you and like with babies it gets easier ... good luck to you and your baby x


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Interesting. I tried that yesterday, but not every hour. Just took him out a lot and did the exact same thing. But he only went once and I praised him like crazy and gave him special treats. The other times, we'd be outside- nothing- until I brought him back inside. Then he went on his pads : (

Guess I'll keep trying. It's a lot easier than trying to figure out when he's about to go, then get him out.

Maybe this whole pen setup is the wrong way to go. Lots of the puppy literature says you should keep them in a small crate all day and let them out each hour. But I just can't do that to him, especially since I"m home all day.




Dylansmum said:


> If possible, (especially during the day when it's not so cold!), try to stay outside and give the command (go potty or whatever) that you have chosen until he does something. Then you can give the command and loads of praise and an immediate treat. He will then learn quite quickly to go on command which makes things much easier. I used to take Dylan out about every hour and after food. The quicker he learns to associate weeing or pooing with the command, the better.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Karen,
Thanks for the helpful feedback. How long did it take?
Honestly, I don't remember it being this difficult. I think my other pups were bigger and able to hold it longer.

If you didn't use pee pads, where did you keep them?
We're learning his pattens a bit better. He is up every 3 hours through the night crying. Thank goodness my hubby is willing to take the 3am run, but we're still just taking him to the pads. Maybe I need to re-think all this. Wait, I'm too tired to think. LOL. (sortta)



wilfiboy said:


> Hi Terry he is simply gorgeous x Can only offer much of the same really. We got Mable in Nov and have been through snow and ice and -14 which is very cold for us ... actually the rain was worse cos everyines soaked. We did nt bother with Pads just out after everything, sleeping, eating,playing at first it was like others have said probably every hour and agian with a command and loads of praise, just ignore an accident and clean it up . You start to notice times and patterns and the times do get longer. If Mable cried in the night we got up and let her outside without talking, fusing and once she'd wee'd staight back to bed...In the short term as Mable went longer ( she didnt wake every night) but Wilf learnt if I call you'll come not what we'd planned but soon stopped. Just like having a new baby absolutely shattering initially ... I felt like excusing myself to people and explaining my sleep deprived look ... like with babies though its trial and error finding what works for you and like with babies it gets easier ... good luck to you and your baby x


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Oh luvey I cant say like with a new baby it all blurs into one and you cant remember. Im home home most of the time, limit how much Im out obviosly time it to after taking dogs out, but the rest of the time they are just here with me. Mables crate is in the living room and when she was little Id put her in if she was tired, or if she fell asleep but as shes got bigger she just sleeps wherever during the day unless I go out then I give her a kong and put her in the crate. She just knows the routine at night out to the loo then in "your bed". It took a few weeks before she did nt wake up in the night(not every night) but then at one point morning started getting earlier... we had the odd half 5, but have started taking water up after they've had a drink after their tea. Could you leave him with your other dog for any legth of time during the day to keep him company and occupied x


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Sometimes I think we get too stressed about this whole toilet training issue and maybe expect too much from our pups. It takes time for them to get there and until they do there are going to be lots of accidents. Maybe it's best not to worry so much, relax and enjoy them and do whatever feels right and suits you best and just stock up on cleaning materials!! They all get there in the end.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm thinking I need an entirely new strategy if this is going to work. I started using pee pads because my good friend was very successful in doing this with her Yorkie. Plus, it was so horribly cold here up until yesterday, that I couldn't see standing in the cold, let alone him! I tried but he'd just stand like a stone and shiver.

I do think I"m over-focusing on this. But lack of sleep will drive you to do strange things! I just found a great site on housebreaking: http://www.thehousebreakingbible.com/

They suggest NOT using pads or paper but getting the pup out every hour and/or after naps, play, eating, drinking, etc. Like some here have suggested. They also talk about the umbilical cord plan, where you attach his leash to you so you can watch for any signs. The down side to that is he's already so emotionally attached, that if I leave his side while he's in his crate, he cries.

The pee pad is also getting confusing to him because he likes to SLEEP on them! 

The site also says to wake up the pup at night before he wakes you up so that you can then stretch out the times before letting him out. He gets up every 3 hours. 

I really need to think this through. And yes, to stop worrying about it. But it's all consuming and I cannot really work much (I work from home, on the computer much of the day), so am getting stressed.

You're right- I do have to remember he's just a little thing and this process takes time. 
I can't wait till I can forget all of this.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Yeh I agree Helen, they're only babies and have in most cases just been used to doing it whereever they are.
Has your daughter forgiven you for not getting a chocolate baby is she as smitten as you x


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Will his pen go in the area where you work .. so he can see you while you work .. its a hard one, as he gets older he'll be happy to just sit with you while you work. Mables 6 months old and she follows me to the tiolet and lies down, lies down under the computer chair, lies down under my dining chair but would cry if I left her, it depends what suites you and your life style x


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes, I have a nice playpen in my home office with a bed, toys and pee pad. He's sleeping on the pee pad! And is now peeing on the floor, instead. Must get the towels back in there so he'll get back to using the pad.

He's napping in there now, but if he's up, he'll generally cry to be picked up, as he prefers my lap. I'm working on getting him to stay in there while I'm working (haaa...working...not happening!). 

I can't wait till he's trained so he can happily keep me company while I work!



wilfiboy said:


> Will his pen go in the area where you work .. so he can see you while you work .. its a hard one, as he gets older he'll be happy to just sit with you while you work. Mables 6 months old and she follows me to the tiolet and lies down, lies down under the computer chair, lies down under my dining chair but would cry if I left her, it depends what suites you and your life style x


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

It's amazing how many things you can do with a cockapoo on your lap! I used to make jewellery, paint casts, use the laptop etc etc, but now Dylan is fine as long as he can see me. He is used to being ignored all day while I work and knows the routine. Elliott will adapt really quickly, you'll see.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, I thought I'd use the leash- umbilical cord- method and had him hooked up to me. Fed him, had breakfast, took him outside. Nothing. Back in, played, etc. Back out. Nothing. Put him in his pen and immediately peed on a pad. 

Now I'm uncertain. If he's attached to me on a leash all day, won't that increase his need to be with me? 

Just stuck him in his crate in the kitchen to see what would happen (gave him a yummy Kong) and he's crying.

I think I need to be more consistent and choose a method and stick to it. I just don't know what method to use!


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> I think I need to be more consistent and choose a method and stick to it. I just don't know what method to use!


Go with your instincts and do what feels most comfortable to you. There's not really a right and wrong - you'll get there in the end so choose whichever makes the journey most pleasant!


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## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

I think we were really lucky with Rufus in that except for the first night here he slept through the night, or didn't cry or wet his bed. We definitely had a few accidents inside but all in all, I just watched him a ridiculous amount (definitely hard to get work done but I really wanted to make sure he learned where and where not to go, it will pass!) and any time I saw him sniff or circle I bounded outside. This was in January, blizzards everywhere hahaha but he learned that if he had to pee, he was going to go outside and that was that. 

I think consistency is a very very important thing. If you're going to take away the pads, totally take them away and just watch him. Take him out ALL the time, as people said... sniffing, circling, after he wakes up from a nap, every time just take him out. He then gets used to the fact that he can go out A LOT and doesn't have to worry about when he's going to be able to pee next.

You'll get the hang of it! Soon it will click for him.


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

The other times, we'd be outside- nothing- until I brought him back inside. Then he went on his pads : (

Haha - maybe his wee only defrosted when he got indoors in the warmth


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Dylansmum said:


> Sometimes I think we get too stressed about this whole toilet training issue and maybe expect too much from our pups. It takes time for them to get there and until they do there are going to be lots of accidents. Maybe it's best not to worry so much, relax and enjoy them and do whatever feels right and suits you best and just stock up on cleaning materials!! They all get there in the end.


Totally agree with that. Too much stressing doesn't make for the happy experience having a new puppy should be. We all worry too much, for no reason at all. As you say, they all get there!


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Dylansmum said:


> Go with your instincts and do what feels most comfortable to you. There's not really a right and wrong - you'll get there in the end so choose whichever makes the journey most pleasant!


I totally agree. I think all the methods work, as long as you do them properly and completely. We haven't used pee pads - just taking Rosie out all the time for the first week and then doing it less and less and just watching for signs. I did notice that when we stopped praising her for weeing outside (just because it got to be quite normal), we had more accidents inside. She still has accidents, and she's yet to properly ask to go out, but I guess it's a long journey.


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## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

If I were you, I would pad train him. I tried really really hard with 'Lo, but she would pee anywhere randomly, never even considering the pad at all.  I finally gave up and she goes only outside. But every time -very rarely, but still- I'm not reading her right, or she has a stomach upset and can't hold it, I wish again she would of just leaned to us a pad.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

weez74 said:


> I did notice that when we stopped praising her for weeing outside (just because it got to be quite normal), we had more accidents inside.


Ohhh I noticed that with Flo. We moved her from pads to going outside which she dutifully did for a while so we thought she had got it and stopped praising and treating then she started having 'accidents' inside again. She needed heaps of praise and fuss before she really understood what was expected of her. I think the problem is that the 'human den' or house is so large and varied it takes a while to work out what bit is the den they shouldn't mess in and what bit is outside the den. Probably not as obvious to a dog as it is to us.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, I'm still working on this. She will now pee outside but not poop. I'm letting her out ALL the time and praising her to the hilt for each success. Special treats, too. I have one pad by the back door to the yard for the middle of the night outings, as it has still been too cold for her.

I did learn something interesting. I was trying to keep her up late at night so I could get some sleep. Instead, I put her down closer to HER time and worked in bed using my laptop. She slept longer! Or maybe it's cuz yesterday she got quite a workout playing outside with my Portie.

Did anyone warn you this would be a full time job? : D


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds like she's making great progress!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think so! Just won't make a poo outside. Boy, does this bring me back to the days of babies, diapers and toilet training!


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> I think so! Just won't make a poo outside. Boy, does this bring me back to the days of babies, diapers and toilet training!


Yup, just the same routine.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Terry your so shattered you ,ve given Elliot a *** change lol ...never mind working when he's asllep I think you should have a nap lol x


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> Terry your so shattered you ,ve given Elliot a *** change lol ...never mind working when he's asllep I think you should have a nap lol x


You're sharper than me Karen, even with your sleep deprivation! I just went along with the *** change and didn't even notice!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh my....I must have been sleep deprived when I typed that out. I'm so used to calling Harper a she. Yes, she's a she.

Elliott is making some progress. At bedtime, he'll sleep 4-5 hours, then get up every 3 after that. 

He's pooped outside. But he'll poop inside, too. The housebreaking website says to try the airlift approach: you don't let them hit the floor unless it's outside to "go." If you can't hold em, you crate em.

I tried that today, holding him, taking him out, then crated him for 45 min. so I could get some work done. The little stinker pooped in the crate.

I need a puppy babysitter! LOL


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

lol Terry don't worry, it will take some time for little Elliot to get it. SOme take longer than others....Lady took about a month and a bit, and occasionally will still have an accident. 
He'll get the hang of it no matter what method you try.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> Terry your so shattered you ,ve given Elliot a *** change lol ...never mind working when he's asllep I think you should have a nap lol x


Never mind Elliot getting a *** change. It's suddenly dawned on me that Terry might be a girl not a man!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know how it is when you create a picture in your mind of someone - I'd seen 'Terry' and just assumed guy, but looking back see now that you refer to your hubby. And there was me thinking what a kind, sensitive guy this Terry is taking so much trouble over his puppy. You're a girl Terry, is that right?????????


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

I thought Terry was a "he" in "his" first few posts but "she" mentioned something quite a while ago when still deciding on a cockapoo ... dont we just make assumptions ... you know you can be who you want to be its quite liberating lol x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> I thought Terry was a "he" in "his" first few posts but "she" mentioned something quite a while ago when still deciding on a cockapoo ... dont we just make assumptions ... you know you can be who you want to be its quite liberating lol x


Ohhhh I'm really Alexa Chung


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh my, I am really laughing- and I needed the chuckle! I'm a SHE.
Here's a pix of me and my family: http://www.momswithadd.com/page/about-terry-matlen 

In the meantime, if I don't get this figured out fast, I'm gonna lose my mind. I'm taking him out ALL the time. Way more than once per hour. I tried leaving him in his crate so I could get SOMETHING done, and he wailed and then pooped. That was fun.

Had to give him his first bath, etc etc.

I'm basically holding him, playing with him or watching him outside alllll day long.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I thought of you as male for quite a while then eventually cottoned on!
Terry, now I see you are a psychotherapist, I understand why you are angsting so much about the training. Try to chill and enjoy, or you will end up needing therapy yourself for stress! It will take time, and nothing you do will make it happen straight away. There's going to be lots of messing indoors, probably for a few weeks. I suggest you just take him out approx once an hour, try to stay outside at least some of the times, giving the command you have chosen until he does something, then loads of praise and reward. Anything he does indoors, just clear up in silence. He will get it eventually - they all do. And when you need to work, maybe move his bed to your feet so he can still be close, or even have him on your lap if he will lie still. He will get more independent of his own choice as he grows, although he will probably always want to be in the same room as you all the time. If you can't do that, then just crate him and ignore the wailing, but if you can find a way for you both to get what you want, then that's ideal. I promise you that it will all sort itself out - I work all day at home with no problem at all. It will be easier when you can take him for walks - I do a long walk first thing then Dylan will just play by himself or rest while I work for most of the day, then a walk in the afternoon. You'll get there - it just takes a while xx


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

I think you are getting too anxious and I think you are also storing up future problems for yourself and Elliot. The mum dog wouldn't tolerate a puppy that was whining and crying and hanging around all the time and would start pushing them away to make sure they built up confidence and independence. I also feel that you are teaching him how to get what he wants ie constant attention. If it were me I would pop him into a puppy pen, nearby where he can see you, with a puppy pad in one corner and plenty of things to keep him occupied then leave him too it. If he messes in the pen clean it up while ignoring him if he uses the pad give him lots of praise and get him out for a play. Also only get him out when he is getting on and playing nice not when he is crying and whining. At the moment I think you are teaching him that if he whines or cries you'll come and get him. I also think that constant contact is not a great thing as when you need to leave him to go out he might not cope very well at all.

Just as I was typing this Flo came over and wanted to play ball so she started pawing my legs. I ignored her till she went under the table and lay down she's been there a few minutes now so I'll reward her with a ball game - she's learning that great stuff happens when she behaves a certain way.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

So you're not the one with the cap and glasses Terry lol x


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I do need to relax about all this. I read too much and am trying too many different things. I really want him to go out instead of using the pads. The only time he cries is when I crate him during the day (bedtime, he's doing fine, except he can't get through the night, yet- he cries to go at 3 am and 6 am).

I'm confused. Do you give them a treat after they go outside? Or do you just praise them? I was giving him a super duper favorite treat after each success, but when I'd bring him in, he'd pee soon after. I think he smartened up and learned if he pees even a drop outside, he gets a treat. So the trainer at the housebreaking website said never give treats for dogs doing their business except in certain circumstances.

You guys are right. I'm too uptight about this. He needs space from me and me from him. And I need to accept that accidents are part of the process.

I think reading Dr. Ian Dunbar really screwed me up. Have you read his stuff? He basically said that it's YOUR fault if he has a single accident and that all accidents can be avoided by being vigilant. But who has the time/energy to watch every move 24/7?

Karen, who is the Terry with the cap and glasses? Terry Thomas? I used to get called that a bit in my younger days.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> I'm confused. Do you give them a treat after they go outside? Or do you just praise them? I was giving him a super duper favorite treat after each success, but when I'd bring him in, he'd pee soon after. I think he smartened up and learned if he pees even a drop outside, he gets a treat. So the trainer at the housebreaking website said never give treats for dogs doing their business except in certain circumstances.


All I can tell you is what worked for us, which was that I would take Dylan outside and say "go potty ". If he weed or pood I would enthusiastically praise "good potty in the garden, good boy" and treat immediately. After just a few days he was weeing every time I instructed him to and then expecting his treat, so he did learn the rules quite fast. I don't understand why the trainer says not to give treats. You are rewarding him for going in the correct place when you give the command. He won't get a treat or praise if he goes indoors so he will learn the difference. You are working on the basis that if he goes regularly outside because you tell him to, then he won't need to go indoors and that will become a habit.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Sorry Terry .... just my naughty sense of humour I should reign it in while you're so tired I meant your husband i.e the man in your family picture as you were posting it to "prove" your gender, sorry x
I agree with Helen, I just gave loads of high pitched excited praise when they got it right and ignored and just cleaned it up when they didnt. Believe me I ve sat here watching all day going stir crazy ...and still missed the signs for the accident and in a way I found it harder when they could go longer cos you were then expecting them to need to go and they did nt need to. Its a bind but he'll get there but yeh sometimes the accidents mine had were my fault cos I was just going to take them, but hey ho we're only human and unfortunately Im not perfect x


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Helen, that's what I was doing, too. But then he'd do into the house and straight out pee within 5 minutes again. It COULD be that I was praising him WHILE he was going, which was distracting enough to make him stop.

Here's what the online trainer said:

"Eeek! DON'T use treats as a reward for him going potty... that might be the problem! Once in a while, people do have success when they use treats for housebreaking, but, more often than not, the dog is so excited to get the treat, he'll just squeeze out a few drops because he's anxious to get the treat, then you end up going back into the house with a fully loaded puppy!"

So now I- again- am uncertain as to what to do. 

I was going to go back to using the crate instead of watching him 24/7 but yesterday he pooped in there and almost did it again today, but I caught him MUST in time and air lifted him straight out to the yard/garden. 

Here we go. I am not being consistent cuz I'm not sure what to do.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Karen, I must really be brain-mushed to not have gotten the joke. Hoo boy!

I like your attitude. Just go with the flow and clean up as needed. 

I took E to Petco, our huge pet supply chain out here and people went NUTS. No one knew it was a Cockapoo. They oo'd and aww'd and fawned all over him. That's my boy! And wouldn't you know he held it in for 3 hrs, refusing to go anywhere outside until we got him back to our own yard. !!


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## Emmy (Jan 18, 2011)

Terry, your little one is adorable.

I took Stella out about 2:30am and then kept pushing it up a bit until she made it through the night. She only whined a couple nights, I used the crate idea and I think that was helpful and then she was trained to be in the crate when I needed to leave during the day. I kept the crate in the kitchen until just this week. She now sleeps with me. 

Stella was born 11/16, but I got her 1/17. She has been 8 days without an accident today. And that accident was with my daughter watching her for 4 days.

I got her from Classic Poos in Iowa. She is now about 13 pounds.

Sorry for the delayed answers. How is it going now?

Jan


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## Emmy (Jan 18, 2011)

Terry,

Petco is where I am taking Stella's puppy classes. The trainers are really helpful.

Is the crate made small enough just so Elliott can stand, turn and lay down? I was told if it is bigger than that they would poo in one side and sleep in the other. You can get crates that have a divider you move as they grow.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> I think reading Dr. Ian Dunbar really screwed me up. Have you read his stuff? He basically said that it's YOUR fault if he has a single accident and that all accidents can be avoided by being vigilant. But who has the time/energy to watch every move 24/7?


Ian Dunbar "Before and after getting your puppy" has noble principles but rather assumes that you don't have any other life or anything else to do other than follow a full on 100% 'raising your puppy' regime. I read it then used a few of the ideas, albeit in a more relaxed way.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi all,
Just an update-
We've stopped waking Elliott up in the middle of the night and he's now sleeping through! Though today he got up at 5:30, usually he makes it till 7:30am.

However...
The housetraining is not going well at all. I had our trainer from dog #1 come out and he said to stop waking him up at night. He was right.

He also said to NOT give treats when he's successful outside. He also showed me how to make him "hurry up" outside by flicking the leash every time he gets distracted by a stick or whatever.

And he said to do crate training except when I'm home working in my office, in which case he can hang with me but to encourage him using the pee pad in the little doggie play pen.

Well, we haven't made much progress these past (almost) 3 weeks. Elliott is 13 weeks old and though I don't expect him to be able to tell me when he has to go, I cannot read him when he has to pee.

He's always got his nose to the floor looking for crumbs. 

Sometimes he'll jump into the pen in the kitchen where I still have his pad when I'm afraid to put him in the crate. Other times, he messes in the kitchen or my office floor.

I swear, I don't recall it being this difficult with any of my other dogs. 

I suppose I could go all out and crate him, but it seems a shame, since I am home working all day and he'd be down there crying or barking. 

Someone tell me he WILL catch on.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Are you still taking him out every hour to pee? It's easier to be pro-active than to try to guess when he needs to go.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I totally agree with Helen. I've been a bit annoyed with Rosie this week because she's had a couple of accidents, but she (at 4 months) is still not able to tell me she wants to go out and when I think about when the accidents were, they were all at times when I hadn't taken her outside for a few hours. In other words, lazy mummy = wee in the house!

Nowadays, we reply on taking her out every couple of hours and crating her when we go out. When we take her out, we stand with her and say "Do wee-wee" and then praise her when she does. 

I remember early on being told that dogs won't ask to go out until they're quite a bit older - 6 months at least, so we're assuming that we will have to take her out regularly for a while yet.


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## sonatalady7 (Apr 4, 2011)

Helen is right - we took Bella out about 30 mins after drinking/eating and immediately after playing. You have to catch them BEFORE they make the mistake. We did use small treats initially, but very quickly moved into praise instead of treats. It's a lot of work for a while, but take him out every hour.

I would also HIGHLY recommend using a bell. Now that she's trained to use it at home, we take the bell with us when we travel and she knows to ring it when she needs to go out, no matter where we are, or what door it's on. It has saved us so many times. 

Bella is a very quiet dog, and she's always sniffing around, so it's very difficult to tell just by her body language that she needs to go out. 

Best advice I ever got - train her to ring the bell. I hope that helps you. Cleaning up messes is not fun!


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

And don't beat yourself up about not having this under control, Terry - they're a different species, we're not supposed to be able to understand them completely! Sometimes Rosie just looks at me as if to say "What on EARTH are you doing?" and I realise it goes both ways. 

And then I look at my kids and realise I don't really understand them either, so what hope have I got? Vive la difference, I say!


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## Kel (Feb 1, 2011)

Elliott is still SO young and I am sure my dog was not fully housetrained that early. We took Chloe out CONSTANTLY during the day it seemed, about every hour. It IS exhausting! Chloe eventually began sitting or standing quietly by the door when she needed to go out. Then, at about 6 months old (like Louise mentioned) she began giving a bark or two(or more, as needed) at the door too, if we didn't notice her waiting there. 

That is great that he makes it through the night already and the daytime will come too  I promise!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks for your feedback and encouragement!

Yes, I still take him out regularly. When he first came home, it was about every 15 minutes, since he was constantly messing the floor. The trainer said to not take him out that frequently and it helped. I take him out after meals (though for some reason, that's not always a factor; kinda weird); naps, and intensive playtimes. Before bed, of course. 

Yesterday was better cuz I totally focused on him and caught him almost every time or let him out in time. And today, he slept in until 8:30! Woo woo! 

Good point about this not being a normal thing- for dogs to let people know they have to go out. And thanks for the reminder that it'll be a while before he can tell me.

I DO have bells on the door. We trained our other dog, Harper, to hit them when she has to go. It works for her, though it's also annoying cuz she constantly wants to go out and chase squirrels and birds. But it's a lot better than barking! She's simply not a barker. Weird.

So I'm doing the same with Elliott. I wonder if dogs model other dogs, ie if he'll learn faster that bells = going outside cuz the other dog does it.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

terrym2442 said:


> I wonder if dogs model other dogs, ie if he'll learn faster that bells = going outside cuz the other dog does it.


I'm sure that must be the case!


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Haha - absolutely right, Louise!


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## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

> He also said to NOT give treats when he's successful outside. He also showed me how to make him "hurry up" outside by flicking the leash every time he gets distracted by a stick or whatever.


What was his reason for this? Teaching a pup that a huge house, many places unused by the pup, still isn't a potty spot is a huge endeavor. Treating for going outside is very important in most house training systems, because then dogs get instantly rewarded in a big way, and learn faster. 



> I suppose I could go all out and crate him, but it seems a shame, since I am home working all day and he'd be down there crying or barking.


Instead of penning him away from you, why not pen him next to you? If you don't have (or don't want to move) that many crates or play pens, have you though about tethering him to objects? If you equip a corner of every room with a plastic sheet (just in case) and a blanket, pad, and a few toys on it, you could then either tie his leash to something heavy, or get a eye hook screw for the floorboards. This way he's penned in a very small area yet has what he needs and is near you too. 

'Lo got tethered a lot as a pup, she'd always try to run to this one room to potty, so I was able to tell when she was trying to get away for that reason lol.




> Someone tell me he WILL catch on.


He will. With time, he'll be a champ at this.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Can't remember for sure why he said to stop the treats. Maybe because he'd want to go out all the time and then not finish what he started? Or it would make it harder to know when he had to go if he was having treats- throwing off his schedule? I dunno but I'm starting him back on them.

The vet said the other day to try tethering him to me. Your version is also a good one, so maybe I'll work on keeping him closer to me. I do have a playpen in my office with pee pads. I kinda think he's just getting too many different messages: it's ok to pee in the office, but not in the other rooms; it's ok to use the pee pad in the kitchen kennel if she can't get me outside in time, etc.

He's so unpredictable! He doesn't usually GO right after a meal. Maybe not till hours later. 

Maybe the tether is what I need to do so I CAN get him out quickly.

What a job!


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## Dexter22 (Apr 10, 2011)

I brought Dexter home two days ago and decided today I was going to start with the bell training. I have heard great things about it, so I'm hoping if I stick with that, things will get easier. Should i ring the bell myself or show him how to use his paws to ring the bells each time we go outside?


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I taught my other dog to use the bell. I think in the beginning, she was too small, so I rang the bell each time we ran out the door. Then shortly after that, I used her front paw to hit the bells. She caught on fairly quickly, unlike another dog I know : (


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## sonatalady7 (Apr 4, 2011)

Rebecca,
We did the same thing as Terry. I didn't start the bell training for a few weeks because we were taking her out so frequently (and we didn't have bells yet!). But when we did start, I would ring the bell everytime she went out and when she got big enough to reach it herself, I took her paw and hit it a few times - and that was all that was needed. I'm not sure if other breeds are this smart - but ours is soooo smart!! Hope it works for you!


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## shari313 (Apr 8, 2011)

oh, i would love to do that with Cassie. she's so smart, and doesn't make messes in the house, but she doesn't really tell me when she needs to go either, she just goes whenever we take her out. 

i'm afraid my 2 year old son will have too much fun with the bell, and confuse cassie. i've always been so interested with the bell training.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

shari313 said:


> oh, i would love to do that with Cassie. she's so smart, and doesn't make messes in the house, but she doesn't really tell me when she needs to go either, she just goes whenever we take her out.
> 
> i'm afraid my 2 year old son will have too much fun with the bell, and confuse cassie. i've always been so interested with the bell training.


lol you'd be run ragged forever going to open the door... with your son thinking what a great game good luck with that one x


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Hi Terry was wondering the other day how you were getting on ... at least your getting a bit of a lie in Mables up at the latest 6.30 and hoping the lighter mornings dont have an effect or will have some work to do. I think it will all just slot into place and you probably wont even realise. Mable does nt let you know specifically, she's 7 months, but i notice her just walk to the lounge door and so Ha she needs to go out and we are forever having the dialogue ... does anyone know when mable last weed... to just decide to take her out. cant remember how old Wilf was when he used to let you know but he'll sit by the outside door and usually just wait til you notice otherwise he might do one small bark to alert you but he can go for hours and hours especially if its raining!! He'll get there x x


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Karen, that is great progress. I can't wait!
We are not making much progress at all, otherh than he is sleeping through the night now (I guess that IS huge progress!), but..he's now pooping and peeing in his night crate! I'm guessing it might be as he's waking up. I get him OUT as soon as he makes a peep but I can't get him in time. What is THAT all about? 

Housetraining has become a total nightmare. No progress there. If I can watch his every move and get him outside in time, that works. But I can't always tell when he needs to go.

I still have pee pads and wonder if that's confusing him. But as I work from home, I hate the idea of keeping him in a tiny crate in the kitchen and just letting him out every 2 hrs or so, when he can sit at my feet in my office. We have more success in the office, as I have a playpen with a pee pad and he often, but not always, makes it in there.

It's when we're in the kitchen that he seems to get it all wrong. That's where we have a large pen (with a small crate connected to one end). I can't "catch" him in the kitchen in time and he often doesn't use the pee pad in the pen. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

He also doesn't have any schedule to his pooping. Apparently, most dogs poop shortly after they eat. He doesn't. So...I never know when to watch for that. It can be hours after. Or like this morning- he went once in the crate and twice on the kitchen floor (hubby wasn't watching him....grr....).

He's will be 14 weeks tomorrow. Shouldn't he be doing better with this? 

One suggestion was to get rid of the pads in the kitchen and really work on either watching him or crating him. But when he screams in his little crate, my daughter has a meltdown (she has special needs and can't tolerate the noise).

I'm stumped and fed up.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

we never used pee pads....you might be right that it is confusing him.
All I can say is perseveere...it does take a while to train them. Lady is now 7 months and had an accident last week in the house...this is a rare occurence, but it still did happen....it takes patience beyond what most of us can handle.
I have found that with Lady the crate was the best option, if we couldn't watch her like a hawk in her crate she went. even now is she gets to rowdy I will put her in there just to calm for a little while, sometimes making the crate dark and den like can keep them calm, a nice breathable blanket may do the trick and keep him a little quieter for your daughter..


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Amanda,

You're probably right. I may have to get rid of all the pads and not even let him hang with me in my office, which would kill me. But he's just not making much progress.

And now...going in his bedtime crate?? I don't get it. I keep it clean, which means washing everything daily. I thought they weren't supposed to "go" where they sleep. It's small, too. Maybe I have to make it even smaller. But I doubt that'll help. He's just not making the connection that he needs to go OUT to do his business.

Yet, when I DO take him out, especially when I'm pretty sure he NEEDS to go, he'll do his business. But like today, he just peed outside, then came in, hopped into his pen and pooped on a pad. Then again, we have about 2 inches of snow and it's still coming down.

Someone should start a housetraining business. I'd gladly pay for such a service!


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Lady used to "hold" it untill we got inside...we would take her outside and wait with her for like half an hour plus and she wouldn't go when we would finally give up she would come inside and then go...slowly she got closer and closer to the door with her accidents.
it will come. it;s not a thing that will happen in only a few weeks....I thought it would when I first got Lady....I had read so much and people always said that it took a couple of weeks...really for her to be consistent I would say has only been solid since the 6 month mark,
They are babies and no they don't get it at all. 
A friend of mine gave me the best advice and it was to just keep on doing what you are doing....one day they will just get it....and they do. it takes what seems like FOREVER!!!
he will get it. How big is the crate that he is in? 
I had lady in a 30" crate with a big teddy to take up room...she messed in it a few times, and putting all new bedding every day...but soon she wouldn't mess.

Whatever you choose to do with him, whatever works for you, stay consistent and he will get it. 
I think you said he is 14 weeks....we only got Lady at 13 weeks...you've got a while to go untill he is really solid at it.
tons of Nature's Miracle cleaner and a HUGE pak of paper towels.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Amanda, thanks for the encouragement. His bedtime crate is pretty small (don't know the size) and I use a towel and baby blanket rolled up to make it even smaller. 

When he first came home, I was taking him out ALL the time- every 15 minutes, since he was peeing so much. I was a wreck. The good thing is, I'm no longer frantic. Just TIRED. 

I did bring a trainer in and he told me to stop taking him out so much; to wait 2 hours. That helped. A little. 

You're right. Just take it a day at a time. I've had loads of dogs in my lifetime and they all learned. This guy is just taking a bit longer. Or maybe I forgot how rough it was with the others.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Yeh similar to Amanda .. Mable would go out when it was wet and snowy do nothing even though we would wait ages if we felt she needed to go then when we came in she'd park her " fadgarina" on the nice comfy dry towel we were using to dry her feet and wee there... much more partial to weeing on something dry and warm than wet and cold .... your not the only one to have accidents me dear we've all had them, he'll get there and we were shattered for weeks then you just suddenly realise its getting easier and that you feel back to normal again :hug:


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

wilfiboy said:


> then you just suddenly realise its getting easier and that you feel back to normal again :hug:


then you start thinking about getting another...


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## sonatalady7 (Apr 4, 2011)

Hahaha, Mandy! I was thinking the same thing. 

Amanda, I'm so glad you said that Lady had an accident. I thought we were doing something wrong when she had an accident last month (at 8 months!!) She hasn't had one at home in forever...it's just when we're away. But...if we bring the bells, she uses them. 

I have to say, I think I had the easiest dog in the world to house train. She only had 1 accident in her crate, ever. She loooooved it outside, so she naturally just went out there. She still had her accidents, don't get me wrong, but she was pretty easy from what I understand.

BTW - we did have some issues with her not going when we took her out. Our trainer told us to stand out there in one place (ie dont' walk around) for 3 minutes only. Then go back inside. If you stay out too long, he'll start to play, and that's the wrong thing to do! Don't talk to him, don't say anything until he pees. Then jump up and down and squeel and say 'good potty' (or whatever your word is) give him a treat immediately and bring him in.

It'll get better, I promise!!!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh, I hope you guys are right; that it'll get easier. Reading about ONE accident at 7 or 8 months gives me hope!
Today, I was very very diligent in watching him and he did better. But geez Louise, at what point do they tell YOU or give you a signal that they want to go OUT? I'm just letting him out when I think he's due to go and he's gone each time. I've re-instituted the treats.

He learned two tricks today: high-five and also roll over (needs a little work). So he's obviously smart. He learned to sit, shake hands, go kennel etc the first week we got him (10 weeks). Maybe he's just maturing a bit slow physically?


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## Dexter22 (Apr 10, 2011)

Terry, is Elliott still not going to the bathroom on a set schedule? The first day I got Dexter he didn't use the bathroom at all and that started to worry me so I started keeping a log like one of the posts mentioned. Dexter also doesn't use the bathroom right after he eats, it takes him about 2 hours, but I'm assuming as they get older, their digestion gets quicker?

In regards to learning tricks, I'm having some trouble getting Dexter to stay focused on the treat long enough to sit/heel/beg/etc. He knows his name and listens really well outside, but in terms of tricks, he's pretty clueless. Any tips on teaching him some basic commands?


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Rebecca,

Nope- no schedule yet. He doesn't go when I'd think he would WANT to go. He can go hours later after a meal. And why he's going in his bedtime crate now is beyond me. 

Re: tricks- the day he came home at 10 weeks, we taught him to sit and shake. There are some methods.

First, find a treat he loves. Or use some of his kibble:

Yes, first you need his attention, so feed him a few treats and say GOOD BOY! Get him interested in the treats. Then, as you say SIT, hold the treat just above his eyes and move it back. That kinda forces him to sit down in order to see it. You may have to gently push his rump down at the same time.

Keep repeating repeating. Elliott's really good with tricks. He learns after about 3 trials.

For shake, first give him the sit comman (once he knows it well), then while he's looking at the treat, gently grab his paw. Then, prompt him without grabbing. Not sure that explains it too well! 

Funny how he can learn tricks so quickly but can't figure out where to pee and poop.

But back to the tricks- you need to work on getting his attention, first.

Good luck!


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> But geez Louise, at what point do they tell YOU or give you a signal that they want to go OUT? I'm just letting him out when I think he's due to go and he's gone each time. I've re-instituted the treats.


I'm not sure that that matters. Once they learn to go on command, you can control when they go. If you let him out and tell him to "go potty" or whatever command you're using and he has learnt to obey that, then he will oblige. Dylan is still, at 10 months, let out after meals and before we go upstairs to "do potty". You will need to do it more frequently than that while Elliott is young. Also, once he is out walking he will go while he is out. So he may never need to tell you he has to go, because you are controlling it. It wasn't until about 8 months that Dylan would sometimes refuse to go when instructed, because by then he didn't need to go as often, and even then he will if I insist. Only a few times has Dylan ever had to ask to go out.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

terrym2442 said:


> But geez Louise, at what point do they tell YOU or give you a signal that they want to go OUT?


I thought you were directing that at me and got really confused wondering why I would know!!!!!!!

I think Helen's right about training him to go on command. Work on that as if it was a trick and then just take him out every couple of hours. I've given up expecting Rosie to learn to tell me when she needs a wee as I think it is so far away that it's not worth even thinking about it. When it happens, it will be fab, but until then, Rosie gets taken out every couple of hours at least and I stand with her and say "Do wee-wee". To be honest, just taking her to the same part of the garden and (like your trainer said) not playing with her, but standing still, expectant and quite bored (!), has kind of become her cue for going to the toilet. 

One day you'll just realise that you haven't been stressed about it for ages and that he's got some sort of a routine going. Promise.


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

geez Louise - thats so funny


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## JulesB (Mar 6, 2011)

Helen I did the same with Betty and told her "toilet" and she knew that this meant go for a pee and its been really useful, for instance if I was going to a friends house I could make her go before we went inside and she would then not need to to go until we left. Betty did learn fairly quickly and again like you Helen I got into a routine of never leaving her for too long before taking her out so she rarely has to ask and now its only from time to time will she go and sit resolutely by the front door and not move until I take her out.

I picked up putting a command word with going to the toilet from someone I know who had been involved with Guide Dogs for the Blind as they use "get busy" when they want dogs to go to the toilet (I don't know about you but I hadn't thought about what you o with a guide dog when it has to poo!! If uyou ahve a guide dog you are blind hence finding the poo could be a problem!!). 

I must say that getting her into a routine of knowing the times she goes to the toilet and using the command word has meant there is little faffing around when we go outside, its just out, toilet, and back in.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Sorry about the geez Louise comment. It's a saying we have here in the states. Er..maybe more from my generation than the younger ones. : )

Well, I'm certainly doing all those things. Taking him out frequently, ringing the bells on the way out asking if he needs to go and then repeating over and over again to go while he's outside in his spot.

I did have a dog that would go on command but not my current Portuguese Water Dog (she hits the bells when she needs to go- she has never barked to go out), so it would be great if Elliott learned to go on command. Or for now, just go outside instead of in.


I also read something interesting that you guys might find helpful. I think it was Ian Dunbar's book- he said to always take your dog out in the yard to do his business BEFORE walking him. That way, you won't be stuck carrying a bag of poop on your walks. And...the dog will see that eliminating first gives him the treat of heading out for a fun walk. Just a thought.


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## shari313 (Apr 8, 2011)

sonatalady7 said:


> Hahaha, Mandy! I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> Amanda, I'm so glad you said that Lady had an accident. I thought we were doing something wrong when she had an accident last month (at 8 months!!) She hasn't had one at home in forever...it's just when we're away. But...if we bring the bells, she uses them.
> 
> ...


you guys always have such good advice.


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## shari313 (Apr 8, 2011)

terrym2442 said:


> I also read something interesting that you guys might find helpful. I think it was Ian Dunbar's book- he said to always take your dog out in the yard to do his business BEFORE walking him. That way, you won't be stuck carrying a bag of poop on your walks. And...the dog will see that eliminating first gives him the treat of heading out for a fun walk. Just a thought.


that is very interesting! i do hate walking around with a full baggie, lol. but it does help the neighbors know that the poopie in their yards isn't from my dog, LOL. i'm always worried they'll think i'm sneaking off without cleaning up stuff. i don't know if it's me being paranoid, or just intuitive about some of the neighbors. i mean, i wouldn't want it in my yard either, lol.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

shari313 said:


> it does help the neighbors know that the poopie in their yards isn't from my dog, LOL. i'm always worried they'll think i'm sneaking off without cleaning up stuff.


HA HA HA! Yes! I think we have a poop patrol in our village - I'd be in our village newsletter: "Dog owner seen regularly walking dog - NEVER has a poo bag in her hand! She's the one that's leaving the mess, quick, stone her!!!!!"

Our village mafia (average age 67) have already gone public in the village newsletter to say that they know who the culprit is - and that it's an older person, shock, horror! I think they'd got money on it being a young (i.e. under retirement age) person.

That said, it does drive me mental - how difficult is it to bag it and bin it?


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## shari313 (Apr 8, 2011)

haha!! exactly!


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## Vikki Pink (Apr 12, 2011)

How cute is your pup?!! Gorgeous 
I gave up on puppy pads - Louis used to run round the house with them on his head and he used to chew them and shred them!
I used a crate at nights - first night was hell cos he cried and my heart broke so I let him out. But 2nd night I persevered and just left him and he soon stopped crying.
I did get up every 4 hours and took him outside and he did wee every time I took him out. I read that on the internet somewhere that when they're little their bladder can't hold on for more than 4 hours. I did that for a couple of weeks (was knackered at work!!) and then extended it to 4 1/2 hours, 5 hours, etc. until eventually he went through the night. He now goes from 9 pm until 6:30 am and I've only had the odd accident. Sometimes I go down and he's still snuggled in his bed and I think damn, could have had an extra half hour!
Good luck - the first few weeks are hell - I was in tears and don't mind saying that I hit the red wine in a big way! You'll get there in the end!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi all,

Just a quick update on Elliott. It's now 5 weeks that we've had him and I'm seeing *some* improvement with the housetraining (he'll be 16 weeks old on Tuesday). The biggest improvement is that he can simply hold it in longer, so that I'm not taking him out every 15 minutes like when he was tiny. 

And I THINK he's beginning to give me messages- well, a few times- by looking at the door and whining. But most of the time, I just get him outside when I think he needs to go, like after naps, playing, eating and when he starts to circle.

It's been a very rough go with him, but I know in time, he will get it.

I'm still having zero success with daytime crating. He cries and barks non-stop. Yet, he's fine at bedtime, where his crate is next to my bed.

I think it's time to go to the next step. I talked to his breeder and she suggested (as did my trainer) a startling bang on the crate with a newspaper when he starts up. But...he shuts up as soon as he sees me. So she said to throw a water bottle at it- just to startle him enough to stop and to also say QUIET.

Think that'll help?

I can't concentrate on my work when he's crying, so I keep him in my home office where he uses a pee pad. But I DO need to put him in the crate (kitchen) more so I can other things done. But my daughter cannot handle hearing his cries and lets him out and plays with him, instead.

Good thing he's a cutie. Grrrrrr.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

If it's any consolation, it will get easier. Dylan is 10 months now and I work from home with no problem at all. He knows that I work and ignore him all day and will occasionally come for a stroke but most of the time leaves me alone and just watches; similarly when I do housework or cooking. He just lies in his bed or plays with his toys, or chews a bone and in good weather I leave the back door open to the garden. I walk him first thing and late afternoon and that works fine. You will get there!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Helen,
Thanks for the encouragement.
What did you do when Dylan was younger? Did you crate him when you had to concentrate on your work/housework? Did he carry on in there?

I can't wait for this phase to END.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Couldn't you set up a puppy play pen instead of crating? A young puppy who is full of energy and fun may just get a bit bored being crated while you try to work.

Enneirda posted some pics of great ideas for play areas, I'll see if I can finds the post.

Also don't leave out lots of toys, have a selection and rotate them putting out something new each day. Maybe give a meal from a kong so he has something to do while crated or in the pen.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi,
When I'm working in my home office, I have a play pen with pee pads in there. But I let him have free reign in my office, as it's so small and he does go into the pen to use the pads. I can't always watch his every move while I'm working, so maybe I'll try again and put him in the play pen and lock the door. He hates being locked in, period.

I like your idea of rotating his toys- I'll try that.

He is attacking my (many) computer wires even after my husband covered them up as best he could.

I just tried a leash and hooking him up so he can still play with his toys, yet not chew the cords.

The harder part is when I am doing things around the house and need to put him in his kitchen crate. He goes NUTS NUTS NUTS in there and doesn't stop.
I'm trying to give him treats every time I catch him being quiet but he shuts up as soon as he sees me.

Arghh!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

terrym2442 said:


> The harder part is when I am doing things around the house and need to put him in his kitchen crate. He goes NUTS NUTS NUTS in there and doesn't stop.
> I'm trying to give him treats every time I catch him being quiet but he shuts up as soon as he sees me.
> 
> Arghh!


Sounds like he is full of energy and wants to be doing stuff with you the whole time.

Have you tried a treat ball which dispenses treats as he rolls it around to keep him occupied. Does he retrieve a ball - I think if I was having this issue with Flo and take her out with a ball and give her a really good run to wear her out then try putting her in the crate. I would also put the crate as far away as possible and cover it over so she settled.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I have never used a crate - not keen on them and hubbie hates them. I think that the most important things are 1) taking them on a really good off-lead walk first thing in the morning. I always do this before I start my work - close to an hour of running around off-lead starts the day off well for both of us. 2) establish a routine that they become familiar with. Dylan knows that he will have his morning walk and then he doesn't bother me while I work. Then in the afternoon he starts to anticipate his afternoon run around 3 ish and runs to the door every time I so much as glance in his direction!
I have always kept Dylan with me so he can have company all the time. If he comes for a cuddle I'll give him a stroke and then get on with my work. He never really caused too much of a problem, even when he was younger, but I did used to do some work with him on my lap sometimes! He has never chewed any wires or done any damage, even with free reign of the house - if he ever approached anything I would just give a firm "NO" and he would leave it. He did rip up lots of paper from the bin though!


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

Mandy, I do give him a Kong filled with his favorite yummies that he only gets when he's in the crate. He gets lots of exercise, running around with our larger dog- we can't take him on walks yet, until he gets his last set of shots (late this week). He just hates the crate and so do I! But I can't always watch him for potential accidents.

Once he's potty trained, he won't need the crate.
Helen, you're lucky! Elliott doesn't know "no" and gets into a bit of trouble around here. He loves my computer wires, especially!

I guess this will all be solved once he's potty trained.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Rosie chewed my lap top cable when she was little - almost through to the wire. I was so scared about what might have happened! Now, I make sure I use the socket we have that is about two feet above the floor and I trail the cable upwards straight over the back of a chair, so that if she went for the cable I would notice. 

Apart from that, she's usually content to just lie at my feet and sleep. I let her bring her toys in, but I don't really play with her, until it's time for a coffee break.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I think it gets much easier when you can walk them - a tired dog is much more content and settled. Also, if you can do some of your work on a laptop I don't know if it is possible to work maybe on a table by the open back door in summer?? That's what I do and then he can wander in and out of the garden to toilet or to play. I love working at home like that!
Maybe in the meantime you could start to establish the routine of a morning play session (which will later become a walk) then work, then a lunchtime break with some more play, then work again. I find routines really useful.


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## terrym2442 (Jan 17, 2011)

I do think it'll be easier once I can walk him and wear him out. We have a cat, so I can't leave the door open in the summer, but he'll be able to spend more and more time out there with the other dog, as the yard is fenced and now that he's a tad bigger, I won't have to worry about him getting through the slats.

We have had the most miserable spring. Non-stop rain for months, now. I'm sure things will get easier soon.


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