# Does this seem like an OK plan?



## Deb-04 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sorry if this is duplicating other threads, I've read lots and have have a plan on crate and toilet training.
We have a 36" crate and plan to have half Vetbed half newspaper/puppy pad for overnight, not intending to take him out overnight to toilet and daytime just Vetbed in crate for naps, relaxing etc and take him out at least every hour to toilet. 

Does this sound ok? Will it be confusing to want him to toilet in crate overnight but outside in day? I know daytime I'll have to be on high alert and get him outside before naps and as soon as he wakes otherwise I presume he'll use crate.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Sorry but to me that is total mixed messages and will take longer to get your pup clean and I have to say I dislike any method which will not give the pup space to be clean - And I suspect if the pup does toilet overnight you could well be faced with a pup in a real mess in the morning


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## Deb-04 (Aug 3, 2016)

No need to apologise, I need all the help I can get.

I was thinking that the larger crate would give space for him to be clean, with his instinct being to toilet away from his cosy Vetbed? 

What would you suggest?


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

My approach with puppies has always been that as far as possible i will give them the opportunity to toilet in the correct place - ie outside. 
Dogs very quickly get into a routine and even a young pup will be able to go hours or so over night.... without needing to toilet. During the day when they are awake it might well be only 20 minutes when they are young - but they might then sleep for 2 to 3 hours...
So for me when I bring a pup home (and over the years I have brought home several) I resign myself to a couple of weeks of less sleep during the night than I might prefer. I also accept that there will be accidents, but these will always be my fault.
I make a note of when the pup poops and when it pees - you will soon get to know how many times a day your pup poops. From experience the better the quality of the food your pup eats the less they poop. Dot was my first raw fed pup and she poops and pees much less than any previous pup fed on kibble.
I never just put the pup in the garden - I always wander around with them until they have peed (and pooped if I think they need to) this might mean that I spend 20 minutes wandering around initially. When Dot came home it was an exceptionally wet and windy autumn..... It was not fun - but by praising your pup when they do go they do eventually get the message. By the time she had been with us a week she would sprint around the garden and then dash to me and pee literally on the toe of my welly boot so that she was where the treats were! 
Toilet training requires calmness. good observational skills and a regular routine.
They all get there in the end - how quickly is completely down to you.
At night. My pup had her last food (she was on 4 meals a day) about 7. After a garden trip she went in her crate while I got my daughter to bed (Dot had been crate trained by the breeder)> DOt would sleep for an hour in her crate while bedtime happened .... I would then get her out for some me and pup time - a trip to the garden first for a pee. Followed by a little play (possibly another gardne trip if she was acting like she needed to come home and a snooze together on the sofa. Sometimes she would need two pee trips before she would settle to sleep. Around 10.30 we would go out int he garden and potter around until she had peed and pooped (if she had not pooped between last meal and this time. Then I would pop her in her crate around 11. As Dot was used to her crate she never cried and she sometimes messed in her crate that first week -she would walk it everywhere  good job I loved her. By the time she had been home 10 days she was reliably clean and dry between bedtime and when I get up at 6. Dot came home at 10 weeks.
Kiki was not quite 8 weeks when she came home - she was not crate trained. She cried in the night to go out and I always got up if she cried. She only had three accidents over night and by the time she was 10 weeks she was sleeping through from 11 til 6.
Disturbed nights are not for ever.... unless you have a fox in the garden who enjoys winding your dogs up


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## Deb-04 (Aug 3, 2016)

Thank you. I'm happy for some sleepless nights as long as it's in pup's best interest. 
What size crate did you use Marzi? Did you have it all bed to discourage toileting in it or some extra space?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

More importantly what is your plan for where the pup sleeps? 

Chance was in a crate overnight in my bedroom. She slept fine as she was with me and I could hear if she stirred to take her out (in practice it was smug Molly sleeping on the bed who woke me up - and after a few nights of me getting up and taking Chance out I realised Molly was not going out and was just using it as an opportunity to steal my warm spot in the bed so stopped getting up totally) 

Clean bed area and neat toilet areas sound good in theory but pups are fluffy whirlwinds and nowhere near as logical


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## Deb-04 (Aug 3, 2016)

Where puppy sleeps will depend on him, ideally and in long term downstairs in kitchen/family room but if he needs to in our bedroom (in crate) or I could sleep downstairs with him. 
As we've got a large crate is he likely to just toilet in it rather than cry to go out over night? 
If pup is happy in crate overnight, I'm ok with messy clean ups. But not if mess makes him distressed or if he hates being in his own.


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## Gill57 (Mar 20, 2016)

Deb-04 said:


> Where puppy sleeps will depend on him, ideally and in long term downstairs in kitchen/family room but if he needs to in our bedroom (in crate) or I could sleep downstairs with him.
> As we've got a large crate is he likely to just toilet in it rather than cry to go out over night?
> If pup is happy in crate overnight, I'm ok with messy clean ups. But not if mess makes him distressed or if he hates being in his own.


My Freddie had a 36" crate (door always open) right from day one and that was inside a play pen in the kitchen. I put newspaper down within the play pen and he never once dirtied inside his crate.


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## Deb-04 (Aug 3, 2016)

Gill did you take him outside during the night? 
Did you leave the newspaper during the day or remove it?
Thanks


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## Gill57 (Mar 20, 2016)

Deb-04 said:


> Gill did you take him outside during the night?
> Did you leave the newspaper during the day or remove it?
> Thanks


I took Freddie out about 2230 and then left him until about 0530 (I was lucky he only cried for about 10 minutes for the first two nights and then he settled) - I do think that not getting up in the night to let him out for a wee probably slowed down the toilet training process slightly, but I am one of those that cannot cope with without my sleep.
I left fresh newspaper in the corner of the play pen all day - it was generally only messed when he was left alone (no more than a few minutes to start with and then slowly building up the time).
Keep us posted as to how you get on. Sometimes it feels like you will never get them toilet trained - but you will.


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Like Gill I need my sleep. So my pups slept with my older dogs in the utility room with puppy pads on the floor. To start with I covered a wide area but this was slowly reduced until it was just by the back door. This was the door I always took them into the garden through. Have no idea whether it slowed down toilet training or not. It takes as long as it takes and all dogs differ.....good luck. Don't stress. Be relaxed and enjoy your puppy. It's a special time.


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