# My Friend needs help!



## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi all,
My friend has put a deposit down on a litter of Cockador puppies, she has been to see breeder,and was more than happy with mum (Small black lab) and dads(Working cocker) temperament etc.Unfortunately mum has turned on her pups and has killed some of them,this is her first litter and maybe it was too much for her, i think she had 9 pups in total. My friends puppy wasnt one of these and so she is left with a dilema! Puppies are coming upto 4 wks old,and are being hand reared aswell as having 1 feed with mum supervised. They all live in the house, and mum is being seperated from the pups apart from that 1 feed a day, So here are a few question,please any feedback will be greatly appreciated!

A) Will the pups develop any psychological problems from being separated from mum??? They are getting plenty of love and attention from the breeders and their 6 yr old daughter.

B) Will the pup(it is a girl) inherit any of mums strange behaviour,and should they be concerned??? The breeder has said this is so out of character for her as she is so loving and calm.

My friend is confused whether to get this puppy or not,and as you are all so helpfull on here i thought i would get your advice


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## Sarette (Mar 21, 2011)

Oh my God! How terribly sad  No advice I'm afraid, but couldn't not reply 

I am not surprised she is confused, I would be too. xx


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

I know how sad and shocking but i suppose it does happen She phoned me up only a little while ago,and the first thing i thought of was to post on here as there are so many knowledgeable people on here...So please help if u can!!!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

That's so sad but I'm afraid that I wouldn't have one of the puppies because of concerns over the mums temperament. Also, unless the breeder really knows her stuff, I wouldn't be happy with a hand raised puppy with restricted access to it's own mum. A litter of puppies take on so much in those early weeks from mum including dealing with frustration etc as they jostle to feed which they just wouldn't get as hand fed. All in all not a good scenario...


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Is she planning to breed from the puppy? 

I did a google search on it and people seem to think a few different things. Firstly, that the mother has an under-developed maternal instinct (maybe she was bred too young). As such, the advice seems to be that she shouldn't be bred from again and her pups shoudln't be bred from in case it is hereditary. 

Others think that there is something wrong with the pups that the mother can tell and therefore she is killing the ones that won't survive (there were tales of deformities appearing later in the pups that were saved). In which case, I guess as a prospective owner of one of the pups that was saved, your friend might be right to be a bit worried. 

And then there are some that think that it is because the owners have been handling the pups too much, too early. 

All very confusing - this looks like a question for JDs to me!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

OK I'm no expert and it would be good to have a breeders take on this but I would also say that a litter of puppies don't just need love and attention they need 'hard wiring' with fundamental developmental learning from a dog. The breeder may love them very much but unless she knows exactly what she is doing there could be problems.

If a breeder had this happen I imagine they would put the puppies with a surrogate mum and maybe even try putting the puppies to another feeding bitch.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

So is this an experienced breeder - sounds not so far...


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

embee said:


> So is this an experienced breeder - sounds not so far...


I have no idea! Will ask,thanks for your advice Mandyx


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

How awful,
Personally I would'nt take one of these pups,I know it's hard but from everything ive read in those first 8 weeks not only are the pups being feed by mum but they are also learning from her.
The pups may be fine but problems may not show themseleves until they are adult dogs,also they always say look to the mother if shes aggressive the pups might inherit this trait?? (i know this was a one off though)


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

having puppys can change the temprament of a dog. a friends bitch when pregnat attacted another dog which was very out of charicter for her. 

i realy dont know any answes to your questons, have the mum and pups been checked out by the vet?


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

having puppys can change the temprament of a dog. a friends bitch when pregnat attacted another dog which was very out of charicter for her. 

i realy dont know any answes to your questons, have the mum and pups been checked out by the vet?


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Putting mums temperament to one side, I would only consider a hand reared puppy from a very experienced breeder who knew exactly what they were doing (and had managed to successfully hand rear a puppy or previous litter that had gone on to develop without problems) and would not take a hand reared puppy from a home breeder, however well intentioned or however cute the puppy looked.

Interesting cross by the way, working x lab. Was it intentional and planned for a reason? Have they bred this cross before?


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

embee said:


> Putting mums temperament to one side, I would only consider a hand reared puppy from a very experienced breeder who knew exactly what they were doing (and had managed to successfully hand rear a puppy or previous litter that had gone on to develop without problems) and would not take a hand reared puppy from a home breeder, however well intentioned or however cute the puppy looked.
> 
> Interesting cross by the way, working x lab. Was it intentional and planned for a reason? Have they bred this cross before?


Will ask my friend all these questions,bless her the pups were also born on her daughters birthday I know for a fact she wouldnt buy this pup just because it looked cute! hence the confusion and she will just walk away if not a good idea) The pup is being hand reared and fed by mum once a day,so does that make a difference?


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Oh dear, I think I would steer clear. Interesting Louise about the mum possibly knowing that there was something wrong with the pups. I think at this stage without having built up a relationship with the pup its easier to walk away rather than take the pup and have things wrong psycologically that could cause problems, difficult I'm sure x


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I was there when my neighbours cat was giving birth (it was amazing until she stared eatting the afterbirth for each kitten,i was nearly sick!)
Anyway when number 3 came came she would'nt lick it clean and totally ignored it and we could'nt figure out why,anyway she did feed it but when it went to its new home,after a trip to the vets they found out it had a heart condition .
Amazing how mum knew.


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## Sarette (Mar 21, 2011)

Hi Becky, I was thinking about this thread yesterday, so have dug it up to ask what decision your friend made? xx


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi Sarah! Have just posted a congrats message to you hun!

Well my friend has talked to a few vets and has gained some reasurance,the remaining pups are seeing mum still and the breeder is experienced,so they have been to see pups this weekend....i think it looks like they will take her,but i havent spoken to her yet! She has also looked at all the posts on here and says thanks to all that have given their advice,a tricky decision that i know they havent taken lightly as they arent compulsive buyers and are sensible adults!! Will let you know,thanks for asking xxx Hope you are ok now and can get some much needed sleep before the deprivation starts again!


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## Sarette (Mar 21, 2011)

pixie said:


> Hi Sarah! Have just posted a congrats message to you hun!
> 
> Well my friend has talked to a few vets and has gained some reasurance,the remaining pups are seeing mum still and the breeder is experienced,so they have been to see pups this weekend....i think it looks like they will take her,but i havent spoken to her yet! She has also looked at all the posts on here and says thanks to all that have given their advice,a tricky decision that i know they havent taken lightly as they arent compulsive buyers and are sensible adults!! Will let you know,thanks for asking xxx Hope you are ok now and can get some much needed sleep before the deprivation starts again!


Yes I saw it, thank you!!

I'm glad your friend has been doing her research, I really do hope it all works out for her. Keep us posted xx


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

how awful very unusual behaviour for a lab, do you know her age? or if she had a bad time whelping? i hope shes not bred from again.

the puppies are always better being with the bitch, in saying that i do know of a hand reared litter, and hand reared from day 1, their dam died and no foster mum could be found, and the puppies grew into lovely dogs ,i know two of them


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

My brother's Patterdale Terrier's Mum died during giving birth to her pups and the lady who hand reared them found it difficult so my brother took on his pup "Ted" at 5 weeks as wanted one anyway. Ted is now a year old and a lovely dog who regards my brother as his "Dad" which is very funny as my brother is 6'5" and has this little dog following him everywhere! My friend also took on a hand reared Westie and again another beautiful dog. Of course having their Mum raise them is the ideal but if that isn't possible then as long as the foster parents give them lots of love I don't see there is a problem


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

They think that the mum had mastitis...ouch,and the breeders were totally shocked by her behaviour...she is really docile normally, I have no idea how old she is,it is her first litter,i think they are unlikely to breed from her again


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

pixie said:


> They think that the mum had mastitis...ouch,and the breeders were totally shocked by her behaviour...she is really docile normally, I have no idea how old she is,it is her first litter,i think they are unlikely to breed from her again


im shocked that they didnt realise she had mastitis they really should have known and they cant have been watching her 24/7 , a breeder shouldnt leave a bitch alone with her puppies until they are at least 4 weeks old, ive slept on the sofa many a night on puppy watch.

poor puppies and poor mum, im glad they wont risk breeding her again.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

I would not be too concerned about a puppy taking after its mother,what the mother did will most likely be due to several reasons including hormonal inbalance,first time mums can do this for no reason or if they think the pups threatened in any way,no one really knows why it happens but even dogs with the softest nature can turn on their pups.The pups are still interacting with mum and litter mates,feeding well and being well socialised in the family home,i see absolutely no reason why the little puppy they picked cant go on to his/her forever home but can understand why someone who isnt experienced can be unsure what to do. xxx


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## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

mandym said:


> I would not be too concerned about a puppy taking after its mother,what the mother did will most likely be due to several reasons including hormonal inbalance,first time mums can do this for no reason or if they think the pups threatened in any way,no one really knows why it happens but even dogs with the softest nature can turn on their pups.The pups are still interacting with mum and litter mates,feeding well and being well socialised in the family home,i see absolutely no reason why the little puppy they picked cant go on to his/her forever home but can understand why someone who isnt experienced can be unsure what to do. xxx


I think my friend is becoming more hopeful now,and she has been reasured all seems ok...so fingers crossed! Also we get our puppy really soon too so they can play together and socialise in the summer hols....thanks


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