# Puppy vaccinations...



## Turi

Hi all, 

With the imminent arrival of Saffi I called our vet for a chat regarding vaccinations. I thought I'd share my conversation - and concerns - with you all. 

Saffi will receive her first vaccination at eight weeks with our breeder's vet who uses Nobivac. Our plan was to take Saffi for her second vaccination at our vet at ten weeks. 

However, our vet told us that the brand that they use, Vanguard 7, isn't compatible with Nobivac and the combination of two different brands wouldn't provide as strong a protection as two vaccinations of the same brand. At this point in the conversation I remembered a Jukee Doodles post from months before where Stephen had said that if we asked our vet to purchase a particular brand they would be able to use the rest of the batch with other dogs that came into the practice. So I asked our vet if they'd be prepared to buy Nobivac - short answer was 'no' . She provided me with a number of options:

1. To go ahead with Nobivac then Vanguard 7 and risk the lower protection 

2. To ask our breeder to purchase the second Nobivac vaccination from her vet which we'll take home with us and give to OUR vet to administer. 

3. To ask the breeder to let us take Saffi home unvaccinated and we will do both the first and second vaccination with our vet. 

4. To drive back to the breeder's vet so that they can administer the second vaccination - which would involve a five hour round trip!

5. To vaccinate her three times - i.e. 1st Nobivac vaccination with the breeder's vet and then with Vanguard 1st and 2nd vaccinations with our vet. 

I have shared these options with our breeder who is going to speak to her vet and see what option he is most happy with. 

My vet also said that although we are in a low-risk Parvo area (Richmond/Barnes) there had been an outbreak of Parvo a couple of years ago in Kingston which is about 5 miles away. As a result of this outbreak they now advise that puppies receive their second vaccination at 12 rather than ten weeks, letting them out and on the ground/in contact with unknown dogs at 13 rather than 11 week respectively. 

My questions are:

- Is our vet's belief that the combination of two brands of vaccinations is less effective founded? 
- What would you do? 
- What proportion of you did your vaccinations at ten rather than 12 weeks? 

Thanks in advance for your help - I think I'm going to be a neurotic dog owner as I came off the phone with the vet all concerned and worried about a puppy we don't even own yet!


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## embee

First things first - relax 

I did option 3 with Flo and she had Nobivac at 9 weeks and 11 weeks as the vet wanted her to settle for a week before 1st vacc.

I did option 5 with Remy. 1st vacc Eurican with breeder then 2nd Nobivac at 10 weeks and 3rd Nobivac at 12 weeks with vet. Although Nobivac and Eurican are compatible vets advice was that Nobivac wouldn't guarantee complete protection unless their product was full administered. This kind of backs up your statement "vet's belief that the combination of two brands of vaccinations is less effective".

Option 2 sounds like the best idea to me 

Which ever way you go Saffi will be just fine.


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## JulesB

Wow so much to think about and things i had no idea about when i got Betty, looking back i so wish i'd known more.

Betty had her first vaccination at 7.5 weeks and the second at 9.5 weeks and i was able to take her out at 11 weeks.

I don't know about the effectiveness of two different brands. However if you look into vaccinations there are concerns that we over vaccinate these days. I also know that a vet nurse at my vets took her dog out when it hadn't had its second vaccination as they have some natural immunity still from their mum apparently. I'm not condoning or promoting her actions but it does make me feel maybe we are all over cautious and being vigilant for changes in our pets health and acting quickly if they don't appear well is often the best course of action.

I would see if you can get your breeder to get you the second dose as at least you can then start walking Saffi. I think its good to be aware of local parvo outbreaks but getting them out and about and socialising is important too. To be honest, i was desperate to be able to take Betty out for a walk by the time she was 11 weeks!!

xx


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## M&M's mummy

I would do option 3.


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## Mrs Hippiechick

We also went with option 3. Archie had his first jabs at 9 weeks, 2nd at 11 weeks along with his microchip. Then he had his parvo jab at 15 weeks.


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## Pollypiglet

Hattie had Nobivac at 8 weeks with breeder and 10 weeks with me. To be honest it never occoured to check the vet did compatible vaccines! She had kennel cough when she was microchipped at 15weeks. I must confess I took her out a bit early with no probs but that is just the risk I took. One other option for you is to try another practice to see if they have compatible vaccines but don't get too hung up on it, I certainly wouldn't drive all the way back to the breeders vet.


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## wellerfeller

I done the same as Pollypiglet. Weller had his first jab with breeders vet and second with mine. My vet never even mentioned non compatibility and I trust him 100%
Is there independant evidence to show the differing brands are not compatible, does any one know?


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## Ali79

Our breeder sent us home with Beau without vaccinations as she too had problems with differing vaccines in the past. We brought Beau home on the Sunday and kept her indoors for a couple of days as the vet said to let her settle into her new surroundings and then she had her jabs at just over 8 weeks then 10 weeks and was able to go out at 11 weeks for a walk. We did take her out a lot after the first jabs but carried her everywhere as wanted to socialise her. We would also take her to Pret in the middle of Norwich and sit holding her though with hindsight I should have put a hat on the floor as with the amount of people who stopped to ask about her and cuddle her I would have made a fortune  Good luck and don't worry as you are not a neurotic owner just a very caring one who wants the best for her puppy  x


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## Julie Clark

I had this conversation with my vet too, but he uses Nobivac so theres no issue. I fully understand your concern. I think maybe I'd be inclined to go with option 3, or maybe phone around a few other local vets and have the second jab done somewhere different.


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## Hfd

Hi - we actually had our 8 week and 10 week nobivac done at our own vets but Billy had a parvo vacc and microchip done at the breeders vet. 
Good luck with whatever you decide.
H x


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## MillieDog

Now I understand why Millie had two vaccinations with the vet, despite having had one with the breeder. Couldn't let her out until 12 weeks. My vet didn't really explain it to me, you've obviously got a more thorough vet. 

I'd go with option 3 if you can. Seems easiest.


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## Turi

Hi folks, 

Thank you for your help! 

Will let you know what we decide to do


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## lola24

Hey Turi,
I would either ask your breeder to purchase a vaccination and have your vet administer it or have her done 3 times (2 with your own vet). 
The compatibility thing is a tricky one- the different vaccine brands have not been tested together to guarantee compatibility and it is not something the drug companies would pay to have done as it is not in their interest. 
Does it make a difference- honestly i don't know, it may well be fine.
Would i risk it? No. For the sake of and extra vaccine or the faff of taking one from one vet to another i think it is worth being safe.
Another option is to check with other local vets which brand they use. There is nothing to say you couldn't register her there to take her for her second vacc and then use the vets you originally chose for her aftercare.
Give me a shout if i can be of any use


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## Turi

Hi Katie, 

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I've found an alternative vet an am waiting to see if they have Vanguard 7... will keep you posted


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## mariag

Hi Turi

Thirza doesn't vaccinate because of the compatability issues so we had Oakley done with Nobivac at 8 weeks (the day after we brought him home) & at 10 weeks. There has been parvo in our area (about 2/3 miles away) so our vet said that Oakley would be OK in our garden but not to go out for a walk for 2 weeks after the 2nd jab.


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## Turi

Thanks Maria, will bear that in mind . This whole vaccinating malarky is well complicated isn't it?!


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## mariag

I agree especially as there is so much conflicting advice from vets. I must admit to being very impressed by my vets practice. They have been so helpful & not in the least bit pushy


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## Turi

Generally we've been really pleased with our vet - all three cats are registered with them and when I called to speak about puppy vaccinations the receptionist put me straight through to the vet so we could have a proper chat. I told her my cats are registered at the surgery, including my cat Elmo who we though had cancer of the eye and she said, 'oh yes of course. your mum brought him in'. I was pleasantly surprised that she remembered him  She must see so many animals!


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## Ollie's "mom"

Turi:
I treat people and not dogs. I'm not a breeder either. My field is specialized, and since i can 't keep up with everything-- I'll tell you what I do (it applies to people I don't treat too-- e.g. Family). I ask my Vet what she would do for her dog (or cat, or what a doc would do for her mom etc.). So far it has worked out fine. 
I learned this technique some years ago from a good friend who was a physician. George would ask our interns if whatever treatment they proposed was "good enough for their 'uncle Charlie,' and if it wasn't, then it wasn't good enough for our patients. I have found it has not failed yet (add emphasis to YET). If for some reason our dogs or cats' vets recommendation doesn't sit quite right with me then I'll call our veterinary surgeon and just ask him straight out. (I learned early on to find an expert to trust, I figure I have to trust someone). 
My hunch is to trust folks here, evidenced by discussion, i note that those with experience and evidence backed opinion do not hesitate to raise issues for further discussion and clarification and overall there is a general consensus.
Best,
Monica


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## ali-s.j.

Sound advice Monica - I did that same thing when I had to decide whether or not plate and pins from my son's arm should be removed. The only time I find this method tricky is when 2 experts have differing opinions, but as you say, find someone who knows, and you trust, and trust them


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## Turi

Great advise... thank you 

I think I'll call my vet back on Monday...


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## Janev1000

I definitely go for options 2 and 3 in that order. If it were me, I'd like to avoid having the last jabs at 12 weeks and then out at 13 weeks as it is such a long time to wait and so many puppies are vaccinated at 8 and 10 weeks with no problems. If you have to wait until week 13 then that's going to be just after the Bushy Park meet


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## strof51

Poppy had Canigen from the breeders vet and we had to start the course again as our vet uses Nobivac. The only problem we had with this was her breeder does not let his puppies go until they are 10 weeks old and our vet likes the puppy to have been with you for a week to settle in, so Poppy was nearly 14 weeks old before her first walk.
With Rosie the breeder gave us the choice of having the vacs done ourselves.


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## looby

My breeders vaccination were not compatible with my local vets so we opted to have him un-vaccinated when we brought him home at 8 weeks (the breeder gave us the money that she ould have spent on the vaccine). Then we let him settle with us for 3 days and got him done- all worked out well. Personally I wouldn't have wanted him to go through 3 lots of vaccines.

xx


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## Turi

Janev1000 said:


> I definitely go for options 2 and 3 in that order. If it were me, I'd like to avoid having the last jabs at 12 weeks and then out at 13 weeks as it is such a long time to wait and so many puppies are vaccinated at 8 and 10 weeks with no problems. If you have to wait until week 13 then that's going to be just after the Bushy Park meet


Yes, the Bushy Park meet crossed my mind 

Marcus and I have spoken about it and the benefit of the marginally higher protection for us is outweighed by the fact that a puppy vaccinated later might be harder to socialise so we're going to go for 8 and 10 week vaccinations so that she'll be allowed out at 11 weeks. 

Someone suggested we go to the vets at Pets at Home for her second vaccination - they use Nobivac. Will call them on Monday but this seems a sensible suggestion.


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## wellerfeller

It seems that canigen and nobivac are the same vaccine made in the same factory. Have a look at this discussion on lab forums. I know there are many brands of vaccine and some may not be compatible but some are, when owners are being advised they are not. Hmmmmmm.........

http://www.labradorforums.co.uk/ftopicp-1232829.html


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## Turi

Well I suppose it's not in the interest of the pharmaceutical companies to promote that different brands are compatible... ?


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## strof51

Go with what your vet recommends. The pharmaceutical companies will deny all liability if something goes wrong.

Canigen is manufactured by Virbac, this link is to the list of products.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium-datasheets_by_company/Companies/-34886.html

Nobivac is manufactured by Merck and distributed by MSD in UK, link for their products.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium-datasheets_by_company/Companies/-28293.html


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## Jedicrazy

Check any implications with your insurance too.


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## embee

Jedicrazy said:


> Check any implications with your insurance too.


That's the reason I ended up giving Remy a full course of Nobivac with my vet even though the breeder gave an initial Eurican and Eurican/Nobivac are compatible. The vet said that Nobivac manufacturer wouldn't guarantee their product if only partially used which would effect my insurance if Remy contracted a disease she ought to have been protected from if vaccinated following manufacturers instructions.


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## Turi

Great news – found a local vet that stocks Nobivac so Saffi will now be vaccinated with the same brand at eight and ten weeks and allowed out after that. Now here’s the question. She will be vaccinated on Monday 12th March. Would you wait a whole week to take her out or would you take her out the weekend of the 18th/19th for her first walk taking care where we go?


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## looby

I had to wait 2 weeks before being allowed to take Rigby out

xx


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## crazy lady

i too would bring pup home without having had first jab, and have them all done at the vet of your choice, some breeders i have noticed are saying this is best because of differing brands of vaccinations.


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## Turi

looby said:


> I had to wait 2 weeks before being allowed to take Rigby out
> 
> xx


I think it depends on the vaccine and on the advise of the vet - some say 1 week after vaccinations, others say 2. Our vet has said 1. Why can't they all just say the same thing?!


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## lola24

depends on the level of risk in your area- we say 2 weeks with nobivac in this area. if lola was done on the monday, i would have waited until the weekend before 2 weeks (12days). If you are only waiting a week i would definately wait until the monday x


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## Dexter1011

I did option 3 with Dexter at 8 and 10 weeks.


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## Turi

Ok... another chat needed with the vet methinks!


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## Rustler

Glad to fear you've managed to sort out the vaccination problem Turi. With regards to how long to wait before taking your puppy out I spoke to 2 vets at our practice , one advised one week, and the other two weeks after the 2nd jab. In the end we waited 2 weeks before we took Stevie out just to be on the safe side.


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## Turi

Thank you for your advise - going to call the vet today and will let you know how my chat goes


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## strof51

Trui, our vet recommended waiting 2 weeks before the all clear to take ours out for a walk and they also us nobivac. I also think it is down to where you are going to walk, if you live in an area with a lot of dogs I would defiantly wait he full 2 weeks, but if you lived by the sea and could walk the beach just after high tide you could go for a walk earlier.
Remember you are going to have your dog for some years so an extra week will not make any difference in the long run.


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## Turi

Thanks Colin - I hear what you're saying. Don't worry, I won't take any risks


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## S.Claire

Hi Turi

It was 8 and 10 weeks for Nacho. Then allowed out a full 7 days later. This was because of my area. His first walk was on the beach!  Try not to stress, it'll all be fine. Just go with your instincts and advice from the vet xx


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## Turi

Thank Suzie - still haven't managed to speak to the vet yet. Manic few days at work!


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