# NI.....what's going wrong?



## GreenFamily (Jun 17, 2011)

Sid has been home now for 3 weeks and he is 13 wks old. He came home with Orijen food and after about 5 days we changed him on to NI. He is fed 3x a day and we used Orijen for his training treats.

He came home and had squidgy poos, which I understand is normal when moving home so we added natural yoghurt to his food. His poos firmed up and on NI we had a few firm poos. Last Sunday he started to have squidgy poos again and as they didn't clear up, Tuesday I started to add yoghurt again to his food and on Wednesday I took him to the wet to check him out. 

His bowls were slightly inflamed and unfortunately they said he should have 'Hills' food, a bland diet for 3 days to help his digestive system clam down with added yoghurt. We cut out the Orijen as treats so he hasn't had any Orijen since Wednesday.

His poos became firm again so this morning for his breakfast he had NI and yoghurt. About 1hr later he did a soft poo again, what's going on? I am really keen to feed him a very good quality food and and very enthusiastic about NI but why could this be happening? Any advice would be welcome.....please


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I am really sorry, I don't have any advice but Daisy also has soft poos on NI and she now refuses to eat it.  She will only eat chicken wings, carcasses and lamb bones. I was considering changing her to a different type but I am concerned about wasting lots of money if she doesn't eat it again. 

I hope that you manage to sort Sid's diet out.


----------



## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi Nic,

I'm new on here and hoping to get our first Cockapoo next Spring. As such I don't have any answers (sorry) but since you've started a thread on NI I was going to ask:

Do all the puppy owners on here intend to feed your Cockapoos NI forever or just in their formative months? I ask only because having been on their website and worked out at a grown Cockapoo would eat 300-400g a day (the recommended amount for a spaniel-sized dog) this would cost approximately £30 a month. I've never had a dog before and I don't mean to sound tight (!) but this sounds quite expensive to me. Am I wrong, is this just how much dog food generally costs? Is there any way of making the costs more manageable but mixing the NI with dry food to spread it out a bit? 

Turi x


----------



## sharplesfamily (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm not sure why you're having such problems on NI. Maybe we're just lucky but we switched Luna to NI without any gradual phasing on Day 1 of getting her & since then she's had firm non smelly poos every time. We also give her Orijen sometimes for training treats. She adores her food & wolfs it down. In terms of cost, £30 of NI will last us 6 weeks which we think is good. It won't last as long when she's older but others on here have said it costs approx 60-80p/day to feed a NI diet to their fully grown cockapoos which I think is very reasonable for a high quality food.


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Turi said:


> Hi Nic,
> 
> I'm new on here and hoping to get our first Cockapoo next Spring. As such I don't have any answers (sorry) but since you've started a thread on NI I was going to ask:
> 
> ...


I think I am right in saying that the owners who feed NI see it as a long term food option not just for the puppy stage. Personally I was combining bones from the butcher with one meal of NI per day but as you have probably read I am also having trouble with it. I spend about £10 per month at the butchers and this would feed Daisy for the month. I wanted to use NI as it had other healthy ingredients. I think I am going to have to start making my own concotions though! 

I appreciate that NI might seem expensive but there are other ways of feeding raw, you just need to make sure you are giving the dog the right nutrients. If you google raw feeding you will find alot of information and suggested meal options. I wouldn't feed my dog anything else. I have experienced some negativity to feeding raw but when I read the ingredients list on commercial dog food I feel I am doing the right thing. If you need any help with diet and raw feeding when you get your puppy there is lots of experience on here and people are always happy to help!


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Turi said:


> Hi Nic,
> 
> I'm new on here and hoping to get our first Cockapoo next Spring. As such I don't have any answers (sorry) but since you've started a thread on NI I was going to ask:
> 
> ...


Flo is nearly 2 years old, is 15 inches high, weighs 10.5kg and only eats 200g per day - remember that you reduce the amount once that reach maturity. For chicken brought as 1kg packs that's only 57p per day so about £17 per month. I also get essential or value chicken wings and Morrisons lamb ribs to replace some NI meals and that is even cheaper so I'd say she costs about £14 per month to feed.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Sezra said:


> I am really sorry, I don't have any advice but Daisy also has soft poos on NI and she now refuses to eat it.  She will only eat chicken wings, carcasses and lamb bones. I was considering changing her to a different type but I am concerned about wasting lots of money if she doesn't eat it again.
> 
> I hope that you manage to sort Sid's diet out.


Maybe she just doesn't like the texture and prefers to gnaw wings, carcasses and bones as the NI is a bit sloppy. Or maybe she doesn't like some of the ingredients like butternut squash?


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

GreenFamily said:


> this morning for his breakfast he had NI and yoghurt. About 1hr later he did a soft poo again.


If he poo'ed 1 hour after eating NI for breakfast that won't be what he had for breakfast 'coming out' as food takes 5 hours to digest, it'll be what he had the night before. Have you spoken to Natural Instinct to describe the problem and ask what they think, they are really knowledgeable and helpful.


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

embee said:


> Maybe she just doesn't like the texture and prefers to gnaw wings, carcasses and bones as the NI is a bit sloppy. Or maybe she doesn't like some of the ingredients like butternut squash?


It is very wierd but she had a really runny tum and then that was it..refused it ever since!  I am going to order the NI tripe and tripe mix though and just try it with her. It is not something I have included in her diet yet but I know it is fantastic for them.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Sezra said:


> It is very wierd but she had a really runny tum and then that was it..refused it ever since!  I am going to order the NI tripe and tripe mix though and just try it with her. It is not something I have included in her diet yet but I know it is fantastic for them.


BEWARE  - very smelly food or at least that's what Dylansmum said. But if she loves it great - the things we do for our dogs


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

embee said:


> BEWARE  - very smelly food or at least that's what Dylansmum said. But if she loves it great - the things we do for our dogs


I have also heard this!  Wish me luck!


----------



## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

*Pepto Bismol????*

I've just found and interesting webpage on diarrhea which also has some practical advice on rebalancing the puppies bowels. Pumpkin?? didn't know that one. It sounds as though whatever Sid has picked up or stress he's felt now his tummy is sore, so whatever you feed him might not agree with him and therefore he won't like to eat it. Think of how you feel if you have an upset tum. They are suggesting to use Pepto Bismol for dogs with diarhhea.....I've never used it....has anyone else??? Julia x

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/diarrhea.htm

http://www.alldoghealth.com/pepto-bismol-for-dogs/


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

I would speak to NI, they are so helpful.

I've used the Tripe & Turkey mix (well Millie has) and she absolutely loved it. It looked a bit odd, quite a lot of different textures. A bit smelly, but once she'd eaten it, it didn't linger on her breath.


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

MillieDog said:


> I would speak to NI, they are so helpful.
> 
> I've used the Tripe & Turkey mix (well Millie has) and she absolutely loved it. It looked a bit odd, quite a lot of different textures. A bit smelly, but once she'd eaten it, it didn't linger on her breath.


Good idea, I will call them on Monday. x


----------



## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Monty is having tripe tomorrow for the first time ( Berriwoods) shall be waiting for the smell  luckily he wolfs food down so it won't be around to linger!


----------



## Cockapoodledoo (Feb 8, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> I've just found and interesting webpage on diarrhea which also has some practical advice on rebalancing the puppies bowels. Pumpkin?? didn't know that one. It sounds as though whatever Sid has picked up or stress he's felt now his tummy is sore, so whatever you feed him might not agree with him and therefore he won't like to eat it. Think of how you feel if you have an upset tum. They are suggesting to use Pepto Bismol for dogs with diarhhea.....I've never used it....has anyone else??? Julia x
> 
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/diarrhea.htm
> 
> http://www.alldoghealth.com/pepto-bismol-for-dogs/


Not heard of that one before but thanks for the info. I was recommended Tree Barks Powder. 

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-and-cat-...dies-c-5_145/dorwest-tree-barks-powder-p-2025

It's great for soothing a sore tum, can be used from weaning and can also be used for lactating mums. I have a tub in as I found Rufus was reluctant to eat live natural yoghurt! I haven't used it at all since feeding my own BARF though.

Karen xx


----------



## EG1 (May 14, 2011)

Yes, it's good to keep a tub of Tree Barks Powder handy. Usually does the trick. x


----------



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Going back to the original question...is it diarrhea or just soft poo? If it is the former I would try one of the suggestions from Julia or the Tree Bark powder and try a bland diet reccomended such a chicken and rice. When Daisy had a runny poo I switched her on to Chicken wings only and after a day she was fine. I am not sure whether it was the higher bone content or a reaction to the NI. 

Good luck and I hope things improve.


----------



## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

When Buddy was on Orijen his motions were really loose once i started feeding NI he has a firm perfect non smelly poo everytime.
Prehaps you should just feed NI (no yogurt ,no oriejn) just as a process of elimination wait 24-48 hrs and see how it passes through him? At least then you'd know if it was the NI that was the problem.
Good luck hope hes better soon dx


----------



## Sarette (Mar 21, 2011)

Max had soft poos when we got him home (on Orijen) so we added some cooked chicken and yogurt to his food to ease his tummy. That was on the Monday, and the NI arrived on the Wednesday so we switched him straight over and his poos have been firm since... apart from when we were camping and he sneaked a whole frankfurter and some french stick out of hubby's sisters bin bag and scoffed them... his poo the next morning was absolutely vile!!

I hope you get Sid sorted soon, bless him xx


----------



## Mogdog (Feb 6, 2011)

Like others suggested, you could try some chicken/rice to settle his tummy .... then giving NI alone. Bess too had soft poos of Orijen, but since switching to NI is absolutely fine.

Hope it settles down soon.


----------



## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Harri - you're right, when you put it like that 60-80p a day is very reasonable. 

Sarah - I would love to come up with our own recipes... is it rather time consuming though? I'd also worry I wasn't getting all the relevant nutrients in...

Mandy - when you give Flo chicken wings do you remove the bones? I know with our cats we don't given them chicken meat with bones as they're fragile and can splinter...

All - what on earth is BARF?! 

Also, when they're babies does a Kong filled with goodies count as a meal or is it in addition to a meal. Don't want to overfeed! 

And last question (promise!) - when they're little you feed them 2-3 times a day yes? How about when they're older - our friends feed their dog once a day. Must be a very hungry pooch :-(

Turi x


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Hi Turi. Raw chicken, turkey, lamb and beef bones are fine but never any cooked bones - those are the ones that splinter. Also best to avoid weight-bearing bones such as drumsticks & thighs. Guideline is ribs, spine, wings, head etc are best although lots of us give the huge marrow bones as they just gnaw away at those. 
Barf is "Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods" or some say "Bones and raw foods".
Young pups should be fed 3-4 times a day. Adults can be fed once or twice a day. I prefer twice but either is generally ok.
Some people feed meals in kongs, but in general, treats would be in addition to meals, as long as you don't overdo it. Those of us feeding barf generally only give natural treats as well, rather than ones with artificial ingredients.
DIY barf diets are great as long as you research carefully and make sure they are balanced correctly and contain all the necessary nutrients. Done badly, they are not so good. Natural Instinct is the easy way for those who want the best food but also convenience and also a good starting point for beginners to barf. Hope that has answered some of your queries!!


----------



## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Helen – what a detailed answer. Thank you! So much to remember... I think initially I’ll start with NI and treat filled Kongs as described on another thread. Sounds foolproof! 

Thanks again,

Turi x


----------



## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi Helen can you just run through again what you fill your kong with when on NI thanks dx


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Actually I'm not one of the Kong experts! I don't use mine much. There is a sticky thread on here about kongs with lots of natural recipes. 
http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=2322I just use peanut butter generally. For treats I give dried liver or liver cake or pigs ears.


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi guys well my opinion on all this food lark is !! after 36 years of breeding and showing dogs and to championship level with my daughter sarah , i have feed the raw diet the barf and all the rest............ but you cant beat a prepared dog food by a manufacturer who has invested millions of ponds of reserch in to developing a quality food with all the correct nutriants,vitamins minerals for your puppy/dog i feed www.royalcanin.co.uk i start of with starter and puppy mousse which smells like you could put it on toast !! haha and then at 8 weeks they go on to mixed starter bics and puppy/junior , when they leave home at 10 weeks they are pooing solid , occasionally we have the odd one that has problems usually new owners have fed them som thing other than what i tell them or it can be the stress of moving ,i find there house training is good as well from feed back from customers and at the end of the day we are all so busy who wants to be messing with raw food ,if not handled 100% correctly can be lethal in the kitchen especially were children are little hands explore were they should not go cant watch children all the time janice p.s. turi will get you soon have tryed x


----------



## glitzydebs (Jun 10, 2011)

I agree. Try the NI only for 24 hrs especially the tripe one oh Pushca would chew my hand off for that flavour.
since the raw diet she never has diarrhea and they just don't smell. Plus the hardness of their poo will help pop the anal glands which is another problem in itself.
but I do find it she's been to her dog minder and eaten Bakers (yuk) or cooked meat she has loose poo
hope it gets better hun


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

I must be one of the few who tried NI for a few weeks and have now gone back to Wainwrights trays. Teddy loves it and maybe I am lazy but it suits me to have a well doggy on easily prepared food (opening the tray is the hardest bit , lol).


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2011)

Debs i feed manufactured food and never never have anal gland problems ? and no smelly poos and they only do it once a day x


----------



## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

Tressa said:


> I must be one of the few who tried NI for a few weeks and have now gone back to Wainwrights trays. Teddy loves it and maybe I am lazy but it suits me to have a well doggy on easily prepared food (opening the tray is the hardest bit , lol).


I have been feeding Pixie NI since she was 8 weeks,she loved it now its so so as we had her sister round who is on wainwrights trays,and she sneaked a bit to eat and she LOVED it! Now she is not so keen on her NI! Also my husband is dead against the whole raw feeding so im gutted to say the least,we have a 4 yr old who is very much stuck to Pixie like Glue and that includes meal times,i do try to seperate them but its difficult!He is very concerned over the hygiene element and just wont listen when i try to educate him.....stubborn man...lol. So im going to change her over to either Nature Diet or Wainwrights......The week we had Buffy(Pixie sister) her poos were firmer than Pixies and didnt smell atall! I have also looked at the ingredients in Wainwrights and it looks fab,high meat content and reasonably priced too. So i feel very sad at changing over and not belonging to the BARF club anymore but i would rather not go through a divorce either!!!!:laugh:

Any feedback on great wet food would be greatly appreciated! I must say i have become a dog food snob a bit but PAH Wainwrights does look very good and i have witnessed how a fussy pup loves it and has great poos too! x


----------



## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

I have used ND wet before ( no longer) and know loads of people on another forum that use Wainwrights.

Either two are good wet foods to use 

Not all dogs take to RAW and at the end of the day as long as your dog is happy and healthy and is eating food that you are happy with- then that's all that matters.

You dog might still enjoy the odd chicken wing or lamb rib bone as well


----------



## pixie (Apr 16, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> I have used ND wet before ( no longer) and know loads of people on another forum that use Wainwrights.
> 
> Either two are good wet foods to use
> 
> ...


THANKS!!!! Yes i think i will still give her a chicken wing or lamb rib bone,but will have to be in the garden or when kids at school and hub at work! Sad i know x


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Yes, I would love Teddy to take the odd chicken wing or bone, but he hasn't been keen so far. I will keep trying him though, as I feel he needs something to keep him chewing for a while (and keep his mind off any shoe he finds lying about


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

my little brother was 3 when i started feeding my girls raw. he is now 7 and i have seen no ill effects he has only even been off school with a bad cold. because i feed my girls at night he is often in bed when i feed them but any time they get wings, ribs or bones during the day, he is normaly about and i encorege him to take bones off them, with me at his side, he knows never to touch them without my permition.


----------



## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I can understand peoples concerns with young children when feeding a BARF diet and must admit im forever making sure my kids wash their hands after playing with Buddy,so long as you use your common sense im sure all will be fine.

Must say though i dont think i will be feeding chicken wings or raw bones as the thought of these being dragged around the floor put me off.

So far Buddys doing alot better on NI but I can understand why your changing Becky please let me know which food you go for its always good to have recommendations. dx


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

pixie said:


> THANKS!!!! Yes i think i will still give her a chicken wing or lamb rib bone,but will have to be in the garden or when kids at school and hub at work! Sad i know x


Flo always eats her wings, ribs or bones in the garden. If it's really wet outside I just give them to her in her crate. I put a chicken wing in her bowl the other day just to see if she would eat it at her bowl but she picked it up and stood by the door waiting to take it outside.


----------



## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

There's no real right or wrong in what you feed your doggie. No need to apologise for changing onto something that suits your lifestyle and dog best. We have Wysi 5 months old, here while his daddy is in hospital for a couple of months. He was weaned onto Orijen and fed that since. I tried him on NI and he doesn't like it...so tried him on minced chicken carcased, doesn't like that either, but if I give part of a carcase just smashed a bit with a hammer he loves it  So we give him Orijen for breakfast and carcase for tea....happy dog, firm poos etc. All the other older pups have Ni (or JD puppy BARF) for breakfast and chicken carcase for tea and love it. Have to admit that we have bought a 12' x 6' covered run ( to match the style of the 'Dog House) just for these pups and that's where they eat. I don't have any raw chicken in the house or crates.

They're as individual as we are.

Julia x


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

romeo said:


> Hi guys well my opinion on all this food lark is !! after 36 years of breeding and showing dogs and to championship level with my daughter sarah , i have feed the raw diet the barf and all the rest............ but you cant beat a prepared dog food by a manufacturer who has invested millions of ponds of reserch in to developing a quality food with all the correct nutriants,vitamins minerals for your puppy/dog i feed www.royalcanin.co.uk i start of with starter and puppy mousse which smells like you could put it on toast !! haha and then at 8 weeks they go on to mixed starter bics and puppy/junior , when they leave home at 10 weeks they are pooing solid , occasionally we have the odd one that has problems usually new owners have fed them som thing other than what i tell them or it can be the stress of moving ,i find there house training is good as well from feed back from customers and at the end of the day we are all so busy who wants to be messing with raw food ,if not handled 100% correctly can be lethal in the kitchen especially were children are little hands explore were they should not go cant watch children all the time janice p.s. turi will get you soon have tryed x



Each to their own Janice. 

My Millie came from her breeder on Royal Canin. From day 1 she never really like it and struggled to eat. Yes, you could blame me for being a new owner, but your guess is as good as mine as to why she wouldn't eat it. Nor the Science Plan that the vet recommended (on display in their practice, so not really an unbiased sell), nor the Arden Grange. 

Millie suffered badly from blocked anal glands. Three times they were emptied and she was only 5 months old by then.

As regards being lethal in the kitchen, so could all raw meat produce whether it is for the dog or human consumption. Basic food hygiene, is all thats required.

Yes you may have 35years more experience on me, but it doesn't stop me doing my own research and taking a valued judgement.

As I said at the beginning, each to their own. Raw suits my dog, it shows in so many ways.


----------



## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I have to agree with the hygiene thing Julie, I handle raw meat all the time feeding my human family, I clean the board, utensils and dishes afterwards, it's the same with my doggies food ( and it's human grade meat  )


----------



## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

I switched my last dog to barf when he was 11 years old when I first researched it, and I watched him detox. For at least a week he had no energy, was reluctant to walk and was really lethargic. Once he was back to normal, he was amazingly healthy and was walking round the park on the morning of the day he died, at the age of 17. He had very little arthritis and hadn't been to the vet for around 5 years. Earlier in his life, when he was on dog food, he had constant tooth decay and anal gland problems, resulting in them being removed. I have no doubt at all that the barf diet enabled him to live to a healthy old age. (I also had young children and never had a problem with the raw food).
When I first researched diet, I was horrified by what I discovered about the commercial dog food industry, which in general is really about profits and marketing glitz far more than about what is good for dogs. There is no way that a processed food made from derivatives can compare in health benefits with a natural raw diet, regardless of the marketing skills of the company. It's like feeding your family on processed ready meals. However all dogs are different in their tastes and so are owners and everyone has to choose a type of food that suits them, their budget and their lifestyle. Just as many families live on junk food, so do most of the dogs in the country, and those of us that choose to go a different route are in a tiny minority (though maybe not on this forum ). So although I firmly believe that the more natural the food the better, the most important thing for our dogs' quality of life is that we all love and care for them and give them wonderful loving homes. Everything else is secondary.


----------



## GreenFamily (Jun 17, 2011)

Sorry it's been so long since you all gave us such good advice, busy bees with the kids being back at school. Sid is doing great now, he's back on his NI and this evening we had a nice firm poo . I'm don't usually whittle, having 3 kids you know most things will pass (quite literally) but I thought when I went back on to NI and his poos started to get bad again that 'here we go again' but it's come back around again and all is well (touch wood). Thanks for all the good advice I am definitely going to save the info incase I ever need it again, thank you!


----------

