# We've got into a bad habit



## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Dear me.. We have got into a bad habit 

When we were on holiday recently Gandhi was really anxious at night being in a new place with all the country sounds he hadn't heard before (like a pheasant standing right in front of the window making noises at 5am) and he barked a lot. One of us ended up sleeping downstairs with him which helped (they said dogs weren't allowed upstairs) and I'm sure you can see where my problem is going now.. 

Since we got home Gandhi has learned that when we go to bed if he barks one of us will come down. He had two nights in a row last night when he didn't bark so we thought he was settling back into his old routine but tonight he's back at it again. So we said we would leave him to it to learn that it doesn't get one of us to come down (his body language is different from when we were on holiday where he was genuinely concerned), but he just kept going and going and at 2am we are worried about the neighbours as we haven't given them any warning about this and the walls aren't all that thick. If he goes all night they would no doubt be quite unhappy about this. 

It doesn't feel quite right to put that before teaching Gandhi the right thing but that's society! 

I'm thinking tomorrow we will have to say to them that he may bark all night for a few nights until he learns. 

As soon as I came back down he lay down on the floor and went to sleep, it's not that he's not tired. He's all stretched out now fast asleep. 

The funny thing is he's still fine on his own downstairs during the day. He's been there for a couple of hours each day since and not made a sound (I know because I'm upstairs at the time). 

Hope we can crack this, i did some searches on here and it seems in adolesence this kind of thing can start out of nowhere anyway. Everyone always gives the solution as sleeping upstairs but that's really not an option for us.

ZZZzzzz....


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Molly found her voice too a while back....she will bark if she hears dogs outside it annoys me and nothing makes her stop I have tried everything

I guess she is guarding who knows...I have to have the TV on all the time cause it muffles outside sounds....at night she is good in her crate she never barks in there she is at the foot of the bed. When we went on vacation to Ottawa/Montreal she would bark in the motel cause she didn't have her crate..strange stuff sets her off for example the cleaning lady...she was fine when it was just her...then she came with her cleaning cart so that made her bark cause she had never seen one....we did everything to socialize her when she was a puppy but there are so many things that it's impossible to socialize them to everything!

I'm sure Gandhi will adjust give him time but I know Molly found her "voice" at around his age


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Ralph went through a stage of this for a couple of nights, I don't know if he heard something that spooked him. One night it went in for a good couple of hours, and we were up and down letting him out etc.
We ignored him, thankfully we don't have joint neighbours - but I suspect they could still hear him!
I now just completely ignore him if he every starts, or shout "shush" and he does, maybe just hearing our voices reassures him??
Persevere and ignore him, 
I have been letting ruby sleep on my bed (spoilt) and when she was home after her op and crated at night she wasn't happy and cried!  
Renee, ruby will also bark at things she hasn't seen before & behave like a spaz!  x


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Got in touch with a dog trainer this morning because I felt really unconfident about what to do and didn't want another night of doing the wrong thing 

They recommend letting him sleep with us for a few nights because he's got into a state of high alert at night by default since the holiday

I'm going to go with this now, rather than leaving him to bark (which I was dreading!).. Cos ultimately he is barking cos he is unsettled in some way, and if we ignore him it won't teach him to be happy, settled and confident (which is what we want him to be) He might just bark all night because he's unhappy and not 'learn' anything except to feel like he's the only one there to defend himself. we are supposed to support him and make him feel safe. If he sleeps with us he won't have a reason to get upset in the first place which means he will hopefully stop going into this mode by default and then we won't be responding to any barking which will stop that as a habit in itself. Hopefully over time he will gain confidence again and then he'll feel happy on his own again like he does during the day? 

Before last night we were told that we were reinforcing the behaviour by keeping going to him every time he barked and that he needed to just fit in with us, so we should leave him to bark. In looking for a solution I couldn't see anything other than leaving him to it as we can't sleep on the sofa long term and as he doesn't go upstairs suddenly introducing him to the bedroom is unlikely to make him any more settled. But the idea that staying with him for a few nights will calm him down is something I didn't think of, I was seeing it as all or nothing - that's what happens when you are tired and afraid of doing the wrong thing. 

So I'll give this a try (it will have to be sofa) and see how it goes 

Something I know about Gandhi is when he is getting what he needs he is perfectly behaved! If he is not it's something we are doing wrong because we don't understand him. 

Hope this works and he gets to be more confident and settled


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

This advice makes sense to me. He is calling you for help, ignoring him would get him more frantic. Hope he settles down for you tonight.


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Grove said:


> Got in touch with a dog trainer this morning because I felt really unconfident about what to do and didn't want another night of doing the wrong thing
> 
> They recommend letting him sleep with us for a few nights because he's got into a state of high alert at night by default since the holiday
> 
> ...


Excellent, good luck then! I did read your post earlier today but couldn't think of a useful reply so didn't! So how do you gradually get back to your own bed after a few days of the sofa....did the behaviourist advise?


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I think he has realised how much nicer it is to have company at night. I would do as the trainer advised but personally do not think you will be putting him back downstairs on his own after a few nights up with you. Can this be a permanent move?


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

fairlie said:


> This advice makes sense to me. He is calling you for help, ignoring him would get him more frantic. Hope he settles down for you tonight.


I think I misread the situation because I was likening it to things i've read before about a dog that slept in a crate and one night when the wife was away the husband let it sleep in the bed and then after that it made a lot of noise at having to go back downstairs in the crate the next night. I thought it was like that and he just needed to get used to the routine in our house again. 

When we left him to see if he would stop the longest time was 5 mins so shouldn't be much damage done if that's not the right approach.

The trainer just said let him sleep with us because he's on high alert still, the rest I have rightly or wrongly hypothesised myself. 

The main thing that makes sense is he would not bark unless he was unsettled, because he's fine by himself in the day

Unsurprisingly he was fine last night with someone in the same room


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Mazzapoo said:


> Excellent, good luck then! I did read your post earlier today but couldn't think of a useful reply so didn't! So how do you gradually get back to your own bed after a few days of the sofa....did the behaviourist advise?


Not yet, wont get to have a proper chat with them until Monday, they advised in the bedroom with us but we had to use the sofa as he's not used to our bedroom and thought that would be confusing for him. 

Tbh I can't see how after this he is going to want to sleep by himself if he is always going to feel happier with us. But the theory of making him more confident through not giving him a reason to bark is the only thing that makes sense as a way of getting him out of the habit we were in so I think it's all we can do

This is the only thing so far with training where I feel like I don't know what I'm doing!


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

wellerfeller said:


> I think he has realised how much nicer it is to have company at night. I would do as the trainer advised but personally do not think you will be putting him back downstairs on his own after a few nights up with you. Can this be a permanent move?


Well we've had to stick with being on the sofa with him because he never goes upstairs, so no, it can't be permanent! This is what is difficult about all of this otherwise I wouldn't mind him sleeping upstairs anyway. Downstairs is dog friendly, upstairs is not.

Also I am at home all day so having him only downstairs gives us some separation sometimes as otherwise I would be with him all the time and I don't think that would be as good for him for the times he does need to be left. He's perfectly happy downstairs by himself in the day for a couple of hours and if we started allowing him upstairs just at night that would only be one step away from him wanting to come up during the day and I think would be confusing for him.


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

It's a conundrum for sure and a I really feel for you. Poppy sleeps downstairs but there have been times like after her spay or if she's been poorly that one of us has resorted to the settee and I was highly surprised she didn't kick up a fuss when we reverted to normal (I was there for about 4 nights after her spay). She went through a tiny phase of barking/whining before she was one but we just shouted things from the bedroom (not horrible things!! Hopefully reassuring 'ok settle down now, bedtime' type stuff) and it sorted itself so Ghandi's issue is obviously more deep rooted. At our holiday cottage, the first time we took her, she just wouldn't settle and it turned out she wanted to be on the settee and so we now just cover it up well and she sleeps there. Is Ghandi crated or does he have an area (Poppy has the hall) could he have the settee? Ooh I do wish you luck xx


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

A conundrum, what a perfect word to describe it. Much like barking at company, they bark, we freak out, they bark more, we teach them to be silent, burglar steals the family jewels, we get mad.....these poor dogs it is a wonder they put up with us at all.

I have no advice to offer Grove, I have the backbone of a jellyfish when it comes to giving in to Rufus.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

It is so hard working out how their minds work and what is best, Dudley - luckily - generally seems very relaxed at night, we went from him being in the crate at night to letting him have the hall with the crate open earlier in the year and the last month or so leaving the lounge door open and he generally chooses to go to his bed there for the night, I worried he would feel less secure but so far so good. He is however on high anxiety alert at other times at home, barking at every little noise, and barks in the garden at outside noises. Previous advice was they don't see you as pack leader and feel they are in charge so worry about outside noises and the best thing was to treat them more 'dog' and ignore them more, do all the other 'leader stuff, eating first etc, none of which worked anyway - now that the trainers are saying the pack leader approach is wrong I wonder what the new advice would be?!


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Our house is a crazy house... the dogs generally do not come upstairs, although I use them to wake children up (always much less grumpy than if I wake them up) and Kiki has always shared snorey (story) time with Liz and Dot has taken to joining us then too.
However they don't come up when I go to bed, but settle where they sleep downstairs. Having yob sons who are out, at work, watching telly, playing pc games etc and an insomniac OH bedtimes for humans can stretch from when Liz goes at 9 to 2 to 3 am.... maybe later, I try not to wake up!
If Gandhi were mine (dreaming again) I'd maybe start on the sofa and then return to my own bed, even if you then have another spell on the sofa later the same night. I'd ignore him if he is barking, just walk past him to the sofa and snuggle back down.
Hopefully eventually he'll get bored of it all and decide to just sleep...
Good luck.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Mazzapoo said:


> It's a conundrum for sure and a I really feel for you. Poppy sleeps downstairs but there have been times like after her spay or if she's been poorly that one of us has resorted to the settee and I was highly surprised she didn't kick up a fuss when we reverted to normal (I was there for about 4 nights after her spay). She went through a tiny phase of barking/whining before she was one but we just shouted things from the bedroom (not horrible things!! Hopefully reassuring 'ok settle down now, bedtime' type stuff) and it sorted itself so Ghandi's issue is obviously more deep rooted. At our holiday cottage, the first time we took her, she just wouldn't settle and it turned out she wanted to be on the settee and so we now just cover it up well and she sleeps there. Is Ghandi crated or does he have an area (Poppy has the hall) could he have the settee? Ooh I do wish you luck xx


We've had the same in the past, when Gandhi had diarrhoea one night a few months ago I slept on the sofa so I could keep taking him out and the next night he was better he had no problem with me going upstairs then

There is another issue to this, I can't remember if I posted about it before, but one of our neighbours leaves their dog outside at night and it barks. For a few weeks before we went on holiday if we took Gandhi out for his last wee and he heard this he would go from being all sleepy and relaxed to being alert and bark back, then when we brought him back in he'd keep looking out the back door and do low quiet woofs and occasionally break out into a bigger bark. We would distract him with training etc to refocus his attention and then he would relax again and be happy to go to sleep. If he only heard the dog after we'd switched everything off and gone upstairs, he would bark then and we would go down to him and say 'what is it?', look out the window and give him a pat and say 'it's fine' and wait til he was relaxed and go back up and he was happy with this. So when someone said we were reinforcing the barking by going to him I don't think that's true of this, because not going to him would have maintained his focus on the other dog, but us going down refocuses him and let's him know we're there if he feels unsettled, so I wasn't doubtful about what I should be doing there. 

It's since we've got back from holiday that he's no longer happy with this and wants us to stay with him (apart from the two nights he was fine - maybe he didn't hear it then?) which made me wonder if it was a case of disrupted routine and we were doing the wrong thing by not leaving him to settle by himself. 

I really didn't want to leave him to bark all night and tbh I couldn't ever go through with it..! I have a little pull inside whenever I hear him and it's difficult not to go to him because I know he's trying to tell me something. My first post was in desperation in the middle of the night when I had gone down and decided to sleep with him on the sofa. when you're exhausted and it's not working and someone tells you you're doing it wrong and making it worse you have no confidence in what's right! Luckily we contacted the trainer the next morning to get advice who gave her conclusion that he is on high alert, so we didn't subject him to a night of agony! 

I feel terrible thinking that we thought that might have helped him!!

He rarely barks during the day, not even when the doorbell rings he just runs to the stairgate and waits (then pogos with joy). I would not describe him as anxious during the day at all. 
I think the less opportunity he has to be anxious the less he will become an anxious dog, hence the new sofa sleeping arrangement

Hoping this helps him resettle but I suspect if he is always wary of this dog, we are a bit stuck and will have to talk to the trainer about if we can move him upstairs at night but not in the day.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Marzi said:


> If Gandhi were mine (dreaming again) I'd maybe start on the sofa and then return to my own bed, even if you then have another spell on the sofa later the same night. I'd ignore him if he is barking, just walk past him to the sofa and snuggle back down.
> Hopefully eventually he'll get bored of it all and decide to just sleep...
> Good luck.


This is what I did when I did go down the other night, I just went down and turned the tv on and without even giving him any attention he settled on the floor straight away 

I think the advice of ignoring barking can be misinterpreted. You could say ignoring the bark might be the right thing if you've already showed him you've checked out the threat and told him everything was fine, and that by ignoring him you're demonstrating there's no threat. However that might only work if you are in the same room! Because if you're not there and the dog is barking it's trying to alert of a threat that it thinks you can't hear and it's saying it's not happy dealing with this by itself



Thanks everyone for your advice and reading my essays!

Learning all the time!


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree regarding the barking - but there is a different sort of bark, the 'help, help' bark, 'I want my ball/dinner' bark and maybe even the 'I don't want to be on my own' bark...
you know your dog, you will do what is best for him - but it seems to me that are poos are very, very clever and do learn to repeat behaviours that get them the result they want... remember Tracey's Ruby barking by the back door to go out, being rewarded with a cookie moving to barking to get a cookie....


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Marzi said:


> I agree regarding the barking - but there is a different sort of bark, the 'help, help' bark, 'I want my ball/dinner' bark and maybe even the 'I don't want to be on my own' bark...
> you know your dog, you will do what is best for him - but it seems to me that are poos are very, very clever and do learn to repeat behaviours that get them the result they want... remember Tracey's Ruby barking by the back door to go out, being rewarded with a cookie moving to barking to get a cookie....


That's true, but if a cookie is the result you can understand that

In this instance why would he want us to stay with him at night? The only advantage to him must be security. He's asleep so he's not really getting anything else out of it


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Grove said:


> That's true, but if a cookie is the result you can understand that
> 
> In this instance why would he want us to stay with him at night? The only advantage to him must be security. He's asleep so he's not really getting anything else out of it


I think he's barking just cos he knows you'll come and it's comforting for him to have you there. Once comfortable he can relax and sleep. 

I think what the trainer/behaviourist has said is a good plan.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Had a great discussion with the trainer. 

They think he might be overstimulated. Even if it's a positive source it will be harder for him to unwind and rest (even if he sleeps after) and he will be quicker to become alert just like a person who's over tired would be. So the neighbours dog barking is enough at night for him to get worked up and unsettled again. This is why it happened since the holiday as it was all so new to him there it was a lot of stimulation. He should have had a quiet week after that but with the weather being so nice we have actually taken him along with us to a couple of extra things (he gets invited everywhere too!) The bad night that we had was after he had been at a barbecue for a few hours in the evening. The fact that it wasn't every night also backs this up.

So he can still do these things but less often with more quiet days in between. He's always up for going anywhere and doesn't really have an off button when he's out so it's something we need to keep a lid on in the same way as with the physical exercise time, we can't leave it to him to dictate how much he needs at the time cos he always looks like he's having fun! I asked what about when he's energetic in the evening and looking for things to do and they said even a 10 minute sniff around the neighbourhood would be enjoyable for him because he will have something to do without being highly stimulated 

His energy really seemed to increase a couple of months ago and they do say that in adolesence they seem tireless but it's dealing with that in such a way as not making him even more stimulated in the process!

We've ordered some blinds for the back doors in the kitchen but until they arrive we've put cardboard over the bit he can see out. Also downloaded some lovely relaxing music to play in the evenings for a bit before we put him to bed. 

All very positive! We'll see how it goes


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Great  I can understand the overstimulation idea, Poppy can wind herself up into a silly state very easily and it's definitely an accumulative effect....dog barks outside, postman knocks, a click from a settling floorboard....either one on its own is fine but together = mega alert! Good luck and keep us updated xx


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

hmm, Dudley does get left to laze around quite a lot these days but when he is not snoozing he seems to immediately be in an overstimulated mood! it's really bad now when he knows that I am getting ready for a dog to come in and be groomed, he even barks at any little noise I make whereas its usually just outside noises, I guess I should really go through the same routines when dogs are not coming so he stops expecting them all the time. (once I am grooming a dog he is fine and just lays down as he knows he will be pretty much ignored for a while).
How was it last night Grove?


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

DB1 said:


> hmm, Dudley does get left to laze around quite a lot these days but when he is not snoozing he seems to immediately be in an overstimulated mood! it's really bad now when he knows that I am getting ready for a dog to come in and be groomed, he even barks at any little noise I make whereas its usually just outside noises, I guess I should really go through the same routines when dogs are not coming so he stops expecting them all the time. (once I am grooming a dog he is fine and just lays down as he knows he will be pretty much ignored for a while).
> How was it last night Grove?


Dawn, just to veer off topic for a mo, did Dudley's behaviour alter at all with the raw diet?


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Mazzapoo said:


> Dawn, just to veer off topic for a mo, did Dudley's behaviour alter at all with the raw diet?


To be honest no! I know others who have changed to raw and say there has been a definite change in their dogs but no, I wanted to try for that and as he chews his paws but I think that is habit and not an allergy as he chews the long bits but doesn't go right down, but I keep him on it now as he just loves it so much.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

DB1 said:


> How was it last night Grove?


Last night he was fine, however he was ill (ate something he shouldn't and was sick so vet said to not feed him for 12 hours) and slept most of the afternoon and evening, he took himself off to his bed in the evening and I just went upstairs and he was already asleep! 

But I suppose if it had been that he just wanted to be with us that still would have bothered him, so this is more weight to the new theory.

Tonight will be more of a real test as he is better now and was charging round the living room earlier in a doodle dash. We took him for his quiet sniff.. More charging round after that and persistent bell ringing despite not needing the toilet. Relaxing music went on with little effect (haha) However he's now asleep on my feet under the table.

We've got cardboard over the back doors so he can't see out and will keep the music on when we leave which should mask any barking from the neighbours dog and it will stop at the end of the cd 

The trainer said if he still barks at the back door with these things in place to move him into the hall and shut the door and then as all his needs are being met (including him not having done too much that day) if he continues to bark then to ignore it. But theoretically he shouldn't if his needs are all met. Unless he just doesn't like being shut in the hall


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

The solution is two.  well because you will be wiped out taking care of two energetic puppies that you won't be able to have so many exciting adventures because you want to stay home and rest.  

I try to make a rule though, no more than one big activity per week. Even the dog park is only a couple of times a week. Walks are early for us because personally I think it's cruel to make your dogs walk on cement and asphalt that has had 100+ degree sun beating down on it for 8-10 hours. So evening routines are really quiet. I don't do dinners with friends but lunches or breakfast. TV gets shut off by 8pm and everyone, including myself, in bed at 9. I know it doesn't work with everyone's family but I know it helps my two to have quiet and peace before going to bed. Also they sleep with me and they don't have to be in bed with me, just the same room is important for them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

I think Gandhi's age is interesting.... He's almost a big fat juicy one!! 
I think Ralph was about one when he had his little barky stage... It did last for 2 or 3 nights, (maybe longer) but we did our best to ignore it, I was also trying to think if it coincided with us been away at our caravan for a weekend - or letting him out of the crate at night time.
I'm hoping he grows out of it very soon for your x


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

I love learning about everyone's little routines! It's so funny and kind of intimate, so although we don't actually 'know' each other it certainly feels like we do


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Oh and Grove, that sounds like fab progress


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Lexi&Beemer said:


> The solution is two.  well because you will be wiped out taking care of two energetic puppies that you won't be able to have so many exciting adventures because you want to stay home and rest.
> 
> I try to make a rule though, no more than one big activity per week. Even the dog park is only a couple of times a week. Walks are early for us because personally I think it's cruel to make your dogs walk on cement and asphalt that has had 100+ degree sun beating down on it for 8-10 hours. So evening routines are really quiet. I don't do dinners with friends but lunches or breakfast. TV gets shut off by 8pm and everyone, including myself, in bed at 9. I know it doesn't work with everyone's family but I know it helps my two to have quiet and peace before going to bed. Also they sleep with me and they don't have to be in bed with me, just the same room is important for them.
> 
> ...



Ahahaa! Is there ANY situation where two poos are not the suggested cure! 

I agree about the one big thing a week. This is pretty much what we had before the holiday. I think you are also right about doing breakfasts and lunches instead of dinners. I think no stimulating things after a certain time would work well. 

How is Beemer doing with that neighbour of yours who was making him unsettled at night? The music that the trainer recommended is called 'Through a Dog's Ear' and you can get it on amazon. It's just soft piano music which is relaxing and helps cover any outside noises. 


You will all be pleased to hear we've had three successful nights in a row now 

Hope it continues.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Tinman said:


> I think Gandhi's age is interesting.... He's almost a big fat juicy one!!
> I think Ralph was about one when he had his little barky stage... It did last for 2 or 3 nights, (maybe longer) but we did our best to ignore it, I was also trying to think if it coincided with us been away at our caravan for a weekend - or letting him out of the crate at night time.
> I'm hoping he grows out of it very soon for your x


Yeah, when I did the search on this a couple of similar things came up. I think it's because they are definitely aware of the outside world at this age, the puppy bubble has gone. I think the soft music has been a huge help. 

Also something else i think about this age is they've got into a routine, and deviating from routine makes them unsettled.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

One step forward two steps backwards.

Gandhi has spent about an hour barking now. He seems bored to me! I really don't think he's anxious, he will wonder off and play with his ball for a bit and then when he's had enough he just goes back to sitting there looking at the window barking.

We have been doing less with him and there's no way he can be overstimulated. Is he now under stimulated?!

Where's that emoticon of the head bashing against the wall....


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Oh dear, i can't be of any help I'm afraid, Dudley seems worse these days (and he's over 2!), he has been barking at some outside noises for a while but now he has moments when its ANY noise! even if I accidentally tap something he will look at the door barking, googling stuff it mostly talks about dogs that are not exercised enough, I really don't think that is our case as Dudley can be like it 10 mins after coming in from an hours walk! - but also hours later when he has been lazing around. We didn't have him on the furniture until a couple of months ago, I think I may ban that again (guess it was more for us than him anyway) just to see if that makes any difference.


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Ha I've just gone to bed, and for some strange reason Ralph is on super high sensitive alert ...... Bark bark yap yap (the yap is ruby by the way!!)


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Tinman said:


> Ha I've just gone to bed, and for some strange reason Ralph is on super high sensitive alert ...... Bark bark yap yap (the yap is ruby by the way!!)


night night.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

DB1 said:


> Oh dear, i can't be of any help I'm afraid, Dudley seems worse these days (and he's over 2!), he has been barking at some outside noises for a while but now he has moments when its ANY noise! even if I accidentally tap something he will look at the door barking, googling stuff it mostly talks about dogs that are not exercised enough, I really don't think that is our case as Dudley can be like it 10 mins after coming in from an hours walk! - but also hours later when he has been lazing around. We didn't have him on the furniture until a couple of months ago, I think I may ban that again (guess it was more for us than him anyway) just to see if that makes any difference.


We just at the weekend decided to increase our 'only allowed on the sofa on our lap if invited up' rule to 'allowed on the sofa whenever he wants' rule..!

There is no outside sound I can hear that he is barking at.. No cats.. there are neighbours outside a few doors down but that's nothing new.

I think this is payback because he was such an angelic puppy.

Watch out ruth, nina's time might come yet!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Grove said:


> We just at the weekend decided to increase our 'only allowed on the sofa on our lap if invited up' rule to 'allowed on the sofa whenever he wants' rule..!
> 
> There is no outside sound I can hear that he is barking at.. No cats.. there are neighbours outside a few doors down but that's nothing new.
> 
> ...


I can't imagine Nina ever being any different. Nina approaches people half lying down/crawling so that she can quickly roll over and produce a furry belly for rubbing!  She's a doll! She's allowed a naughty streak though... Just can't see it!


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

RuthMill said:


> I can't imagine Nina ever being any different. Nina approaches people half lying down/crawling so that she can quickly roll over and produce a furry belly for rubbing!  She's a doll! She's allowed a naughty streak though... Just can't see it!


Gandhi is still an angel by day, loves everyone and has excellent dog body language making uncomfortable dogs feel comfortable, quiet as a mouse

Then at night suddenly he has a lot to say... Perhaps he is a werewolf!

We took him for a little walk (in a quiet spell so as not to reward barking with a walk) and he's super chilled now, rolling around on the floor with his antler

I think he was definitely bored

This over and under stimulating thing is going to be a fine line indeed


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Why is there a red thumbs down by my post 

This happened before with a different smiley


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Woof.....woof......woof. I think Maggie must have read this thread. We go to bed early, 9:00 pm. Maggie will go to her bed right beside ours and go to sleep. At about midnight she will get up at go lay at the top of the stairs looking out the windows. woof.....woof....woof, silence, woof.....woof. I will get up, take her outside, she will look around, maybe go pee and we come back in and go to bed but she will get up again go lay at the top of the stairs and woof. I try closing the pocket door in the hall so she can't see out any windows and she will then lay in the hallway, woof.....woof. Tried ignoring her but doesn't help. If I carry her to her bed and tuck her in, she will usually settle herself by sucking my thumb and me giving her a very slow gentle tummy rub and then go back to sleep till morning.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Lindor said:


> Woof.....woof......woof. I think Maggie must have read this thread. We go to bed early, 9:00 pm. Maggie will go to her bed right beside ours and go to sleep. At about midnight she will get up at go lay at the top of the stairs looking out the windows. woof.....woof....woof, silence, woof.....woof. I will get up, take her outside, she will look around, maybe go pee and we come back in and go to bed but she will get up again go lay at the top of the stairs and woof. I try closing the pocket door in the hall so she can't see out any windows and she will then lay in the hallway, woof.....woof. Tried ignoring her but doesn't help. If I carry her to her bed and tuck her in, she will usually settle herself by sucking my thumb and me giving her a very slow gentle tummy rub and then go back to sleep till morning.


Midnight you say? I think maggie may also be turning into a werewolf 

Maybe they are all trying to talk to each other


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

They just hear better than we do. I have heard Beemer bark at night and after I make him quiet down a minute or two later I have heard people or a coyote coming down the street. The neighbor parks his car so it's right in front of our gate and it looks like someone is moving because of the slats of the fence and the street lamp right above it. And I swear I heard footsteps in our gravel just after he and Lexi ran and barked near the fence. I don't try to keep him from barking. But what I do now is let him know I heard. Stay alert rather than making him feel like he has to protect us. Then lie down once he's calm and starting to sleep. He is much better since I've stopped trying to stop him from barking. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Lexi&Beemer said:


> They just hear better than we do. I have heard Beemer bark at night and after I make him quiet down a minute or two later I have heard people or a coyote coming down the street. The neighbor parks his car so it's right in front of our gate and it looks like someone is moving because of the slats of the fence and the street lamp right above it. And I swear I heard footsteps in our gravel just after he and Lexi ran and barked near the fence. I don't try to keep him from barking. But what I do now is let him know I heard. Stay alert rather than making him feel like he has to protect us. Then lie down once he's calm and starting to sleep. He is much better since I've stopped trying to stop him from barking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


when Dudley started barking at outside noises I bought the Turid rugaas (not sure of spelling) book, followed the recommendations there about getting between the dog and the noise, let them know you have checked it out with a hand up towards the noise saying its ok, thank you, eventually you should just be able to say it and hold your hand up wherever you are - but it doesn't say how to cope if they ignore that or start up 3 seconds later each time which Dudley does! he does usually chill later in the evening to be honest, with him its mostly daytime - but i have retired neighbours both sides and they must be getting fed up with it.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Grove said:


> Why is there a red thumbs down by my post
> 
> This happened before with a different smiley


Wondered about the thumbs down.. Your post didn't seem to be a thumbs down post!


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

DB1 said:


> when Dudley started barking at outside noises I bought the Turid rugaas (not sure of spelling) book, followed the recommendations there about getting between the dog and the noise, let them know you have checked it out with a hand up towards the noise saying its ok, thank you, eventually you should just be able to say it and hold your hand up wherever you are - but it doesn't say how to cope if they ignore that or start up 3 seconds later each time which Dudley does! he does usually chill later in the evening to be honest, with him its mostly daytime - but i have retired neighbours both sides and they must be getting fed up with it.


This is exactly what we do. We actually acknowledge it a couple of times to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's barking at different noises within the 5 second gap before he starts again. But if after you've demonstrated it's no threat and they keep alerting you, you are supposed to ignore them. In our experience if we ignore him he will not stop and we get a headache. He needs distracting and then he's happy to settle into something else.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

RuthMill said:


> Wondered about the thumbs down.. Your post didn't seem to be a thumbs down post!


I worked it out, it's an option to have a picture by your post and it's above where you hit submit - clumsy thumbsy!


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

My trainer told me to block her from being able to see out the window at night. Last night she had access to the bedroom and the hallway only. She woke up about 2am and gave a couple of woofs. She had every right to woof as something got into the garbage last night.


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Thought I would update that it's 3 weeks on and we've only had the one night of barking, which we worked out. So we consider it problem solved!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Good work!!


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Maggie is improving too. Found out she was woofing at the street lights. She hears things too. If just a couple little woofs, I ignore her and she settles. If they are a bit more serious woofs, I get up, investigate, reassure her and we both go back to bed.


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