# Problems with Drop It Command



## bearthecockapoo (Mar 17, 2015)

I looked for a thread on this and I'm sure it's out there somewhere but I couldn't locate it! Apologies in advance if this has been covered already.

I've been having a lot of troubles lately with asking Bear to "drop it" (some of you may use the command "leave it"). We have a lot of apple trees in the country, so he is constantly running around trying to get rotten apples from the tree. I think that he thinks they are balls, as he tries to play games with them and generally treats them as though they are balls. Lately, he does not listen when I ask him to "drop it." This has started to pose a more serious problem, as the coyotes are out now and come close to the house, so if he is out running around with an apple, he will refuse to drop it and come inside (he also will not just come inside with the apple, so I was previously finding it much easier for him to come once he doesn't have the item in his mouth).

The past few times I have gone to the off-leash dog park in the city, he has been stealing balls from other dogs and refused to drop it and give it back. I have tried taking our own toys from the house, but he seems to think if it belongs to another dog then it is better. I bring high value treats with me such as cocktail sausage, chorizo, stinky cheese, etc. He always comes when called with these treats, EXCEPT if he has a ball in his mouth and someone else wants the ball (e.g. myself or another owner). Edit: I don't ever try to chase him if he has a ball or toy, I ask him to come and I have the high value treat, the same way that I would normally ask him to come if he didn't have a toy.

I am really frustrated and of course feel that it is my fault and I have let him down in some way, as he would drop it if I had taught him correctly. I'm a bit at my wit's end of what to do. I have tried to do positive reward training with high-value treats and never take things away from him without having a tasty treat or toy as a reward for his actions. I am also growing increasingly embarassed in our trips to the dog park as I can't get other dog's toys back easily and feel like I am an incompetent owner because nobody else's dogs steal toys. I am so embarassed that I am considering only doing leashed walks several times a day in the city and off-leash on weekends in the country.

Could someone please provide me with advice on what to do here? This is a problem both in the city (other dogs, distractions, possessive of other dogs' toys) and in the country (not many other dogs or people, but lots of apples that look like tennis balls).


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I hear your frustration!
Bear possibly hears it too - which for our sensitive dogs can lead to the 'I don't think so response.'
When he has other dogs balls - does he actually want them, their owners - you to chase him?
I'm sure that 2nd will be along with some ideas.
With mine rather than ask them to leave or drop something or even come - if they have the body language that suggests they won't I ask for a 'sit' they will sit at distance. Once they are sitting I will say 'good sit' (which they know means to keep doing the sit as it is what I want' I then will ask for a wait/stay and walk a heel work pattern around them - again they are used to this and will watch me, but stay sitting. I will finish close to them and again say good sit. Put my hand in my pocket for a treat and go in to reward them - as i give them their release command (two pats on their back) i will slip my finger into their collar and offer the treat. If they still don't drop the item I will calmly take it from their mouths.
Saying 'Drop!' or 'Leave' in a determined way may just make your dog hang on tighter because they feel a bit threatened.
Have to say my dogs are often the victims of ball nickers - they are not interested in other dogs balls - they love their own too much. I always ask the owner not to try and take the ball back off their dog. I usually carry a spare anyway. My dogs won't chase the thief - they look to me to rescue their ball. I will crack out the treats and often the thief comes to investigate, at which point if they drop the ball for a treat I'll stand on it or direct my dog to pick it up and reward the thief.
Try not to get too upset by it all - they pick up on it.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

When I was a kid one of our dogs was a mitten thief. Since you are from Canada you can imagine how well this went over.

Rufus is also the victim of ball thieves and I have to admit there is an upside which is that we victims get to stand there all "holier than thou" and pretend (for a brief time) that our dogs are perfect and that it is a reflection of our good training. So try to look on it as a public service if you can.  

I can only think of two ways to break the habit. Either deny him the chance (leash him or muzzle him) or find something that he likes even better, which should be pleasing you. I think I'd play a ton of tug games with him at home, stopping and starting at your bidding until he learned that all of his fun and excitement is directly tied to doing your bidding. When he was trustworthy with a "leave it" command (remember they must often get their desired object back) I'd ask a friend with a ball loving dog to train with you. I'd buy them some new balls of the right type and head to the park to test your new control. If Bear complied when asked to relinquish the stolen ball I'd be sure to tell him good boy and then let him take the ball again and have everyone play chase with him. If he didn't comply I'd have everyone completely ignore him giving the friends dog a new equally ball thus thwarting Bear's fun. Does this make sense? Do you know how to train for a good "leave it" using treats and then toys?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I used a special toy for Chance. She has a rubber ball on a rope and we only play with it for a very short time on very special occasions then I put it away and she does not have anything similar to play with in her other toys. As she loves her toys this has vastly increased the value of her special ballie and I take it with me on walks.

Her weakness as a youngster was chuckits - she knows what they are and if we saw a walker with one she would bounce in front of them - not helped a couple of times by the people with the chuckit who thought it was funny so rewarded her by throwing the ball for her to fetch  This is where special ballie comes in - if she see's a person with a chuckit and wants to eye it up I can produce special ballie and because it is so high value to her she will leave the chuckit and we can have a really nice game with special ballie - so lots of me racing around and real high excitement game so she is in no doubt that she has made the best choice coming to me.

Now she has started agility training I have had to get her equally hooked on a tuggy toy - my trainer said at the start a dog will have far better drive for a toy and decent game than a treat and he is right - she will work for treats but is a little flat, with her toy involved she is far bouncier and works far harder.

Fairlies idea of a setup is also great, get some work in to get Bear really hooked on a toy then take him into an evironment with another dog and ball and give him the choice, the right choice and he gets the best game of his life. If he takes the other dogs ball then nothing much happens and you ignore him and both owners play with the other dog. 

Apples is more complicated with coyotes danger but I would try and make coming in reward with game instead of treat as that seems to be what he craves. Does he fetch things generally or just run round with them and tease you all? If he is a teaser rather than a fetcher then tuggy is probably the answer - also ideal to teach a really strong drop on command whilst playing tuggy.


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## bearthecockapoo (Mar 17, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your input. I so appreciate the time everyone took to help me figure this out.

Marzi - I am sure he does pick up on it. I have tried asking him to sit and he does listen, however his "sit-stay" (which usually he is excellent at obeying) goes out the window when he has a toy because he innately knows that I want it. I think you're right though and it is probably my behaviour somehow subconsciously letting him onto what I really feel about the situation.

Fairlie - The best part is that he listens for all the tricks that don't matter as much (roll over, high five) in the dog park, so people think he is so well-trained but then he pulls stunts like this! Unfortunately I do not have any friends with dogs that are as ball-loving as him. Actually most of my friends have dogs that are either elderly or for some other reason just not very interested in toys (weird, I know). I had read somewhere that tug-o-war was not a good idea, but I can't remember why - is this untrue? Is it something that you think would help diminish this type of behaviour? And I am not sure I do know how to properly train, to be honest - I have tried rewarding with a high value treat when he does drop it, but if you have suggestions on how to improve my technique I would very much appreciate it.

2nd - That is a great idea for having a special toy. Do you have any specific type you might recommend that you found has worked well? I know he likes squeaky ones, but I find he breaks them so easily! Bear is especially bad with the chuck-its, not only bouncing in front but also fully pouncing on the poor unknowing suspects. He does not play fetch, but loves us to throw things and then run around right in front of us teasing. He is DEFINITELY a teaser - how do you think is the best way to approach? I will try your suggestion of getting him hooked on a toy, but unfortunately it seems that he also thinks the most interesting thing is what someone else has... Edit: forgot to add that I do try to make a game inside, such as throwing other balls/toys or even getting out other bones to throw, but he seems to know that because I am trying to make it a game, it is not as good as the apple, so he stays far away with his apple.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Perhaps the answer is to pray for an early dump of snow  to bury all the apples 

Inzi was hyper sensitive and if she thought I was cross (or more likely my OH was cross as his default setting can be grumpy )there is no way she would come if she was called - unless you turned your back to her - it was as if the eyeballing when shouting 'come in from the garden you toerag' was too confrontational. However she would come if called her as if you were doing an A recall. These days she is never wicked and so no-one ever feels frustrated with her - and in fact if we encounter a random dog owner when we are walking and said owner if shouting dire threats and warnings at their own 'deaf to them' dog Inzi will worm up to them all wiggly and appeasing 'please don't be cross I am a good girl!'
Re toys - as you know Inzi is a Chuckit addict. Dot lost her Grinz ball which is her personal obsession and while waiting for new ones to arrive I got her a new chuckit - it is blue and SQUEAKS. Dot is not keen on orange chuckits because they are Inzi's - she quite liked this blue one - but every ball nicking dog we have encountered absolutely LOVES it. Perhaps this would be a good high value toy for Bear. Whatever you choose you should only ever play with it for short really exciting periods so that it maintains its WOW factor.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

If he is a teaser rather than a fetcher I would get him hooked on tuggy so he is actually engaging with you - at the moment he is calling the shots about play and that is what he is doing with the apples and stolen balls - he manages to get all the attention in the world when he does it which makes it ever more rewarding to him.

You need to get him playing tuggy when he is not otherwise trying to play, start slowly and just have short sessions so he is always left wanting more. To start with you want to build the desire to tug, then you can introduce rules so for example Chance will let go as soon as she is asked and if asked waits until invited to play. The old school idea was that tuggy would teach dogs to be aggressive but I use it to teach rules and control and Chance wins the game some of the time to keep her interest and pleasure in the game,

With the apples when he gets one and wants to tease I would just utterly ignore him, calling him and enticing and all the other fun things you are doing at the moment are giving him attention for doing it so change your behaviour and make apples boring instead. (If the coyotes are a danger and you might need to have him back I would have him on a long line so you can catch him easily if need be)


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