# A few concerns..



## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

Binky is growing up fast and is mostly a very good girl and does what she is told and is expected of her 9 times out of 10. 

We have had a couple of incidents over the past week that have bothered me though and being a first time dog owner I do like to worry! 

Firstly I gave her a bone..she had never had one before and was enjoying it immensely, my OH came in from work and went to say hello to her as she didn't move..to engrossed! She let him pat her, then she growled at him and then barked a few times then actually bit him twice...not breaking the skin or anything, but the action was def a bite. I was out while this was going on. She has never guarded anything in her life, so it was a bit of a shock and OH was a bit upset that his Smoo (yes that is what he calls her!) turned on him. I will add Binky was out of sorts as well for the rest of the evening, she acted a bit oddly. 

Anyway we have been doing some work where he is more alpha and feeds her and is giving her treats etc. When he feeds her I make him stroke her and take some food out of her bowl and put it back in. Also last night he gave her a chew treat, and followed her into the front room, stroked her, and touched the treat and all was fine. We have yet to try a bone again. Anyone else got over guarding issues?

The other thing is she is playing rough with smaller dogs (sorry Rafferty!). She tends to grab their ears and also do a shake thing that she does with her soft toys, I intervened in the park yesterday as I didn't want to upset the owner of a little Shihzu, however I will add that Binky was happy to walk away from the game but the Shihzu came running back for more! Should I worry about this behavoir? She is utterly respectful around any dog bigger than her. 

Long ramble.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I would be careful of a dog with a bone - or other tasty treat, you don't want to make them feel defensive... 
It is always better to call a dog to you for a stroke rather than go to them for a stroke - by going to them you are being submissive to them, in their eyes - less dominant dogs always go to greet more dominant dogs. 
If they are busy with a bone, then have some cheese or spam or something and call them to you, treat them and praise.
Good to teach a 'leave it' command - I can get my dogs to back out of their food dish by saying leave it - but I always add something extra tasty as a reward for leaving.
I would not expect my dogs to bite me if I put my hand into their food dish - but then again, I wouldn't do it without asking them to leave and back off...
Puppies do play rough - Kiki does not enjoy rough play with dogs she does not know, so if Binky is rough with a smaller dog that is not enjoying it (or whose owner doesn't think is enjoying it!) I think you are right to call her off. 
Dogs learn to play nice with other dogs by playing - that is why they do it and playing is a good thing!


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm guessing, but the dog bone thing.... it was probably such a lovely treat for her, that she really, really didn't want to give it up. I would do the same as you and build up to taking it away again. When OH does take the bone away, if she makes an agressive noise etc give a firm No, catch the pause she will hopefully give at this point - praise quickly (so as not to miss it) and give the bone straight back. I'd repeat it a couple of times, so she learns quickly that you don't intend to take it away completely. However after a while you may well want to take it away and save the rest for the next day.

I find No is a very good one that Millie responds quite well too.... well 8/10. Maybe try that on Rafferty too, before he gets a head ache


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

I know not everyone agrees with me on this but I never take my dogs bones away from them or even go near them when they have one or are eating. 

My opinion is that if they are used to you taking things away from them then they will expect it and it will encourage them to be possessive. I think with bones the animal instinct just takes over. Mine know they are given space and privacy with their bones so have never needed to challenge me.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I totally I agree Tess! I never take bones away from Weller, he goes in the garden with it and when he is done he can come back in. I do not allow highly prized goodies like bones, pigs ears etc in the house. It saves any mess and much more importantly removes the risk of any incident between Weller and my kids.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I have always done the hand in the bowl thing with Dudley - but - I do it to add a higher value treat like a bit of chicken or liver to his plain kibble, so he thinks my hand coming in is a good thing. Once he had a chicken wing, I tried to get it back just because I wanted to move him somewhere that I could watch him more closely and he gulped the whole thing down because he was worried he would lose it! It maybe worth hanging on to the bone while she eats it so she knows you are in control, but as others have said you could just let her have them and leave her be.


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Well I would be very cross indeed if my husband decided to steal some of my food off my plate! Infect I might growl at him to back off.......if he didn't get the message I would bite too!


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you everyone! 

OH wasn't actually trying to take bone away, he was just saying hello, but she was obviously having a grand old time and thought he might end the fun. The funny thing was later that evening she was all waggy tails and bringing her bone to us as if to say 'you can have some now'! 

I was concerned that it was a sign she could be an agressive dog, but as there are no other signs of that I will put it down to a bone thing. 

She did abandon the bone later that evening so I have picked it up and hidden it, and will let my OH give it to her next time to build up a bit more of a pack heirachy (I seem to be able to do anything and she does not object and def sees me as top dog, but she sees him as part of the pack I can tell)

Binky is good the 'off' command (I use off when I mean leave), so could give that a go if I did need to do a switch with the bone and a treat. 

I am torn between thinking we should leave her alone with a bone and pushing it to make sure she is approachable in this situation....

Rough play wise, I figured it is not fair on the owner to let the rough play continue and I did use the off command and she complied so that is good. I am more than happy to let her rough play as much as she and the other dog like, but I was just a bit concerned over the ear biting and don't want to upset the ladies in the park!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

The stuff you are doing with the food bowl is possibly contributing to the problem as you are almost certainly making her uneasy about your presence around the bowl by taking food out and putting it back - imagine how you would feel if someone did this with your dinner?

Far better to either leave well alone or as DB1 says approach and add things to the bowl - the aim should be for a dog who see's a human approaching their bowl and looks up happily rather than hunches over the bowl and tries to eat as fast as they can.

Following the same approach with treats and bones it would be better to make the dog comfortable with your approach so go close, drop a treat and leave them in peace. If you need to take things off them offer a trade and give them a tastier treat in exchange and this will result in a dog who trusts you rather than one worried by your approach who may bite.

The signs dogs show when they are worried are often too subtle to be read by many people, initial signs are freezing, looking away, lip licking or slightly hunching over the item - by the time the dog moves to growling and snapping they have already said they are uncomfortable but this needs to be read by the person and often isn't.


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

I guess all the puppy books say you should touch their food etc from the start so they don't guard, so we have been following that advice.

Also she eats better when I am stood there, if I walk away she follows me, but if I stand near her bowl or in the kitchen she eats everything in her bowl. Also the OH can set up the ironing board nearly over her bowl and iron a shirt and she will happily eat her breakfast with his feet about 2 inches from her bowl. And she does not react or stop eating if he gives her a stroke every now and then. I thought getting the other half to feed and fiddle with the food would be a good way for him to establish a bit of leadership, not really related to guarding..my original post wasn't clear on that really. 

As we don't have food guarding issues, just bone guarding issues I thought following the same process with treats would work. 

To try a different tact we have been mainly walking near her when she has a treat so she knows us being near does not mean things get taken away.

Anyway this seems to be working a bit better, last night I walked near her when she had a treat to shut the curtains and she picked up the treat and turned her back to me, so I just said in a happy voice that it was ok, and walked away...then later tried the same radius again with a different treat and she stayed put, so I still walked away and said that it was ok.


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## Chumphreys (Oct 1, 2011)

Hi Sam,
We still have exactly the same thing with Malie.95% of the time she is gorgeous however we have learnt that she doesn't like being woken up and will growl and snap at everyone except me.She will also occasionally growl and snap if she has a bone and anyone but me goes to stroke her.Not everytime though.I had a friends dog to stay the other day and Malie got very jelous over me and food OH says it's just her way of telling us that she is annoyed.He says you shouldn't try and wake her anyway.I like you was torn between making sure you could take food from her bowl etc but then as many people on here,said to me "Why do you need to take food from her bowl?" I was really worried about having an aggressive dog however I now try and avoid the situations I know make her growl and snap.I also make sure I tell her a firm no if she does growl and snap.From reading posts on here I don't think we are the only ones 
XClare


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Honestly I would just work on building a relationship with her rather than worrying about establishing leadership which tends to be an outdated idea.

Tolerating things and not moving is very different to actually enjoying - I prefer to eat my food in peace and give my dogs the same courtesy. It only takes a few minutes for most dogs to finish their meal so I prefer to just feed them and let them eat rather than stroking and setting up ironing boards over them. 

For a different perspective Molly was rehomed at 17 months old due to "aggression for no reason" - it turned out to be resource guarding of a variety of objects and at various times and positions. She had never and has never shown any guarding of her food bowl - but neither was she happy with people moving near it when she was eating. I add tasty food to her bowl now and then and she is far more relaxed about eating. I have also addressed the rest of her issues by listening to her and respecting her worries whilst still diverting her and removing items if necessary - the end result it a far happier dog who rarely guards things - and all with no real plan to establish leadership over her - more just a happy relationship where (generally!) she does as I ask her to and we get alonng fine with no conflict.


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

2ndhandgal said:


> Honestly I would just work on building a relationship with her rather than worrying about establishing leadership which tends to be an outdated idea.
> 
> Tolerating things and not moving is very different to actually enjoying - I prefer to eat my food in peace and give my dogs the same courtesy. It only takes a few minutes for most dogs to finish their meal so I prefer to just feed them and let them eat rather than stroking and setting up ironing boards over them.
> 
> For a different perspective Molly was rehomed at 17 months old due to "aggression for no reason" - it turned out to be resource guarding of a variety of objects and at various times and positions. She had never and has never shown any guarding of her food bowl - but neither was she happy with people moving near it when she was eating. I add tasty food to her bowl now and then and she is far more relaxed about eating. I have also addressed the rest of her issues by listening to her and respecting her worries whilst still diverting her and removing items if necessary - the end result it a far happier dog who rarely guards things - and all with no real plan to establish leadership over her - more just a happy relationship where (generally!) she does as I ask her to and we get alonng fine with no conflict.


What I will add is that the ironing board scenario is not something we devised as some kind of training exercise, it is purely co-incidence that she eats in the utility room where hubby irons his shirts in the morning and the two activities always seem to be at the same time! 

Binky and I have a fab relationship and a real bond, it is my OH who needs working on, but they are getting there. Thanks for the advice. 

Oh and I edited to add Molly is a very lucky girl to have found you


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

Chumphreys said:


> Hi Sam,
> We still have exactly the same thing with Malie.95% of the time she is gorgeous however we have learnt that she doesn't like being woken up and will growl and snap at everyone except me.She will also occasionally growl and snap if she has a bone and anyone but me goes to stroke her.Not everytime though.I had a friends dog to stay the other day and Malie got very jelous over me and food OH says it's just her way of telling us that she is annoyed.He says you shouldn't try and wake her anyway.I like you was torn between making sure you could take food from her bowl etc but then as many people on here,said to me "Why do you need to take food from her bowl?" I was really worried about having an aggressive dog however I now try and avoid the situations I know make her growl and snap.I also make sure I tell her a firm no if she does growl and snap.From reading posts on here I don't think we are the only ones
> XClare


Good to hear not just us! It is the same in our house, I can do what I like around Binky and she is totally relaxed and has never shown annoyance..well that is not true she hates the bath and gives me a growl and chunters a lot! I have worked hard at forming a bond, lots of hide and seek and followed the Loved Dog method, seems to have worked as far as our relationship is concerned. 

Yep we had a stroppy pooch when my friends pug came around, she got 'well jell' when the pug picked up her toys, but after 5 mins they sorted it out and were fine. The reverse is that when I took her to my friends we had to actually remove the toy in the end as her pug was having none of it. 

I do say her name before I touch her if she is sleeping as per the advice on here, seems to work. 

Never a dull day is there?!


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

"The signs dogs show when they are worried are often too subtle to be read by many people, initial signs are freezing, looking away, lip licking or slightly hunching over the item - by the time the dog moves to growling and snapping they have already said they are uncomfortable but this needs to be read by the person and often isn't."

Yes this is interesting. I have noticed mine try to look bored when they are stressed and sometimes they even yawn. I have also seen that hunched up look as well.


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## CharlestonBear (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi,
I think that this is totally normal but working on being the alpha is definitely a good thing. My puppy sometimes growls at me if I take a long time to serve his food. When he does this I just walk away (our kitchen is "fenced") and come back about a minute later (ONLY if he is not whining or crying). I also say "it's over" so that it can become a command. This just teaches him that I decide when he eats, and barking and growling are not going to give him what he wants. Just be patient, and make sure people always go through doorways first, eat first, and all that stuff to work on dominance!
Good Luck!


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

CharlestonBear said:


> Hi,
> I think that this is totally normal but working on being the alpha is definitely a good thing. My puppy sometimes growls at me if I take a long time to serve his food. When he does this I just walk away (our kitchen is "fenced") and come back about a minute later (ONLY if he is not whining or crying). I also say "it's over" so that it can become a command. This just teaches him that I decide when he eats, and barking and growling are not going to give him what he wants. Just be patient, and make sure people always go through doorways first, eat first, and all that stuff to work on dominance!
> Good Luck!


It is funny in the weeks since I wrote this original post, Binky is like a different dog in those circumstances! She no longer guards anything, and still ear bites a little bit, but is much more respectful. We worked hard at certain things, yep we always make her wait until we have gone through the door before she can and we eat before her mostly. If she sits on my spot on the sofa she is told to move and does. 

My OH and her have a lovely bond now, in fact she often goes to him first, I think my daughter leaving home has helped elevate him up the pack!! He would be delighted to hear me say that  anyway he spends a lot of time with her and often takes her out for walks in the evenings without me, so it has all helped. And yes he still does his ironing where she eats...she likes the company!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Duckdog said:


> It is funny in the weeks since I wrote this original post, Binky is like a different dog in those circumstances! She no longer guards anything, and still ear bites a little bit, but is much more respectful. We worked hard at certain things, yep we always make her wait until we have gone through the door before she can and we eat before her mostly. If she sits on my spot on the sofa she is told to move and does.
> 
> My OH and her have a lovely bond now, in fact she often goes to him first, I think my daughter leaving home has helped elevate him up the pack!! He would be delighted to hear me say that  anyway he spends a lot of time with her and often takes her out for walks in the evenings without me, so it has all helped. And yes he still does his ironing where she eats...she likes the company!


Glad things are much better, I do sometimes wonder how many of Dudley's changes are down to me desperately trying to do the 'right' thing and trying different training methods etc and how much is just him growing up - it could be that they turn into lovely dogs despite us rather than because of us!!


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

DB1 said:


> Glad things are much better, I do sometimes wonder how many of Dudley's changes are down to me desperately trying to do the 'right' thing and trying different training methods etc and how much is just him growing up - it could be that they turn into lovely dogs despite us rather than because of us!!


I agree with that Dawn!! I have relaxed so much more with her now, and I think she has responded accordingly, and growing up has a lot to do with it too. 

We are back at puppy training tomorrow night, working on 'drop', lead pulling and recall..as I have said in my other posts she is being a sod at getting back on lead, we are trying the tips given from yourself and others on here though..if she could crack these few things it would be fab


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

This is how I taught "drop"... I was amazed at how quick it worked, honestly no time at all. 
Obviously there are other methods but this worked for us. 

If you can ignore the monotone of the commentators voice 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ndTiVOCNY4M

xxx


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Each dog and each owner is differnet ... and you just have to do what suits you and your dog. 

I have friends who will leave their dogs when they have a treat (bone, pigs ears etc) and that works for them and their dogs. However I do take take treats from my dogs and swap them around but this is just personal choice, dont get me wrong I dont do it all the time as when I give them something is it a reward for them. I just do it from a young age so they never growl, snap or become possessive over high value things, as I have seen this is a dog and didnt like it at all.


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

mairi1 said:


> This is how I taught "drop"... I was amazed at how quick it worked, honestly no time at all.
> Obviously there are other methods but this worked for us.
> 
> If you can ignore the monotone of the commentators voice
> ...


You are right the voice was awful, but the training method looks great! I am going to give it a go..thanks Mairi!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Duckdog said:


> You are right the voice was awful, but the training method looks great! I am going to give it a go..thanks Mairi!


Yes I agree, found it quite hard going watching till the end! but looks like a great method and will start today! - We don't have a guarding issue and Dudley is used to me taking things out of his mouth but I would love to be able to get him to drop them instead.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Had a go at new training method today but not sure if it will work for us - in early training sessions we were taught to always take the treat to the dog and if we threw it out they knew to wait until we had picked it up and gave it to them with the take it command, so I tried to follow the video but each time I dropped the treat Dudley looked to me to tell him he could have it! glad something I taught him worked anyway!


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

DB1 said:


> Had a go at new training method today but not sure if it will work for us - in early training sessions we were taught to always take the treat to the dog and if we threw it out they knew to wait until we had picked it up and gave it to them with the take it command, so I tried to follow the video but each time I dropped the treat Dudley looked to me to tell him he could have it! glad something I taught him worked anyway!


  I had similar results dawn! Worked some of the time, but other times she just looked at me as if to say 'can I have it?'. I pointed at it like the man did and that worked, I will have a go again tomorrow!


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh dear girls... Your dogs are just too well trained 

This was something I taught before Molly developed the ability question!!!!  
I distinctly remember Molly LOVING clearing up all the treats during the initial stages 

We were only taught not to Let them have the treat when using the "leave it" command where you put a treat down about a foot in front of them whilst saying this at the same time then if they did leave it for a minute they were given a different treat, never the one you had put down as when you'd normally use this command they wouldn't ever be allowed whatever it was... Now whether this is right or not who knows  

xxx


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

mairi1 said:


> Oh dear girls... Your dogs are just too well trained
> 
> This was something I taught before Molly developed the ability question!!!!
> I distinctly remember Molly LOVING clearing up all the treats during the initial stages
> ...


That was the same leave it command technique I was taught at puppy training too..so must be right : 

Funny how they respond to different things, I am going to keep going with the drop training though as she was getting it sometimes


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## colkai (Dec 30, 2012)

JoJo said:


> I have friends who will leave their dogs when they have a treat (bone, pigs ears etc) and that works for them and their dogs. However I do take take treats from my dogs and swap them around but this is just personal choice, dont get me wrong I dont do it all the time as when I give them something is it a reward for them. I just do it from a young age so they never growl, snap or become possessive over high value things, as I have seen this is a dog and didnt like it at all.


This is how we work, we've done it on both our previous dogs and are doing the same with Amber. It basically shows we are in control so she can have treats, but under our terms. She is quite good with it, especially given her age, and is learning to drop willingly occasionally. Of course, when she is in full play mode, it can be a different story.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

mairi1 said:


> Oh dear girls... Your dogs are just too well trained
> 
> This was something I taught before Molly developed the ability question!!!!
> I distinctly remember Molly LOVING clearing up all the treats during the initial stages
> ...


We were taught it during reinforcing the sit or lie down command, were told not to use leave it and that they should develop the habit of receiving treats only from us not helping themselves so no 'leave it' command should be needed at that stage - we did throw treats but just said 'sit' and they sat and we collected the treat and brought it back to them while they were still in the sit position. Worked really well for that, although anything Dudley discovers for himself is fair game to him and he never looks to me before picking it up!!!


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

DB1 said:


> We were taught it during reinforcing the sit or lie down command, were told not to use leave it and that they should develop the habit of receiving treats only from us not helping themselves so no 'leave it' command should be needed at that stage - we did throw treats but just said 'sit' and they sat and we collected the treat and brought it back to them while they were still in the sit position. Worked really well for that, although anything Dudley discovers for himself is fair game to him and he never looks to me before picking it up!!!


That sounds really good Dawn ,definitely teaching good manners 

xxx


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