# Its been a long time...



## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Hello everyone old and new...

Some of you will remember Miss Lilly from a couple of years ago when we were regular contributors to the forum.

Things got rather dark and difficult for Miss Lills (and we are by no means out of the woods yet) and I found that I just didn't have the energy to keep posting.

Lills turned three yesterday. She's come on a lot but she's still a very timid, fear reactive and tricky little dog whose life often seems way more difficult than it should be. Where other dogs we know see opportunities, Lills generally sees obstacles / danger and possible calamity. No need for baby gates with her - a piece of dowelling across a doorway is enough to contain her as we found out when we introduced her to the bottle game!! She is also the most loving, funny and cuddly little thing with people she knows well and its this that has kept us going and trying to find a way forward.

Thus far we've tried: diet (definitely the most useful so far) and supplements, trainers and behaviourists (so-so) and lots and lots of counter conditioning / desensitization (so-so). Thyroid has been checked (although not as thoroughly as I would have liked) and - because she occasionally bunny hops - she was also checked for hip. lower back and knee problems but all is fine there.

She's still terrified of other dogs (especially bigger ones / groups of dogs), new people (especially if they look at her or want to touch her) and cats. She's also scared of very odd little things - could be a leaf caught in a spider web or a pipe sticking out of a wall for example - but oddly she is very very happy to pop balloons, pull crackers, listen to and watch fireworks etc). Some of this may be due to lack of early socialization as she didn't come to live with us until she was 14 weeks and was already very timid then, but I think its more likely to be a temperament / brain chemistry thing.

Our life together has become more about management than about fun and yes, I have sometimes wondered about whether she would be better off living with someone else. But she is tremendously bonded to me (and I to her) and I know her better than I know most people, however close they are. 

Something is not right tho in her pretty little head and I think a less determined or knowledgeable person would have given up long ago. I well remember the very sad stories of cockapoos being labelled as aggressive and euthanized on this forum a couple of years ago and the silly talk of cocker rage (another reason why I decided to stay away for a bit) and another reason for coming back.

I wonder whether it would be useful to others if I post Lilly's story in detail?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Hello - nice to see you back although sorry to hear the lovely Miss Lilly is struggling with life so much.

I think she is a very lucky girl to have you as her human and I think it would be very interesting and helpful to hear of her full story and what has helped her along her journey, together with the obstacles you have faced.

I have been helping someone recently with a terrified little Romanian rescue pup she adopted and she has a very long journey ahead of her so I know very well how much of an achievement even the tiniest steps are


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks 2nd Hand! That means a lot!

So, because its been such a long time here's a quick recap. The whole story will likely be in instalments because there's so much!!:

Lills came into my life at age 14 weeks. She came from a reputable breeder, health tested and vet checked and I met the mum and one female sibling (I had specified that I wanted a girl - there was another male pup but I didn't see him). 

Lills' sister was a little attention seeking mosquito: me, pick me! me, me, me! She was gorgeous but just a little full on for me... And in the background there was Lills. I had to ask for the mosquito to be taken outside so that I could meet Lills properly and it took her a while to come forward and engage. When she did, she was sooo gentle and, despite everything I'd read about shy / timid pups (especially given that she was a little older) I totally fell for her. She meanwhile curled up at my feet and went to sleep... I figured that this little dog would not cope very well in a busy family environment and might be more suited to the relatively quiet (albeit urban) life that I lead.

I have owned dogs before, albeit a long time ago. My last dog (Great Dane) was bomb proof. Nothing phased her - absolutely nothing. She just took everything in her stride.

So when Lills arrived home it was a bit of a shock to see how scared she was of lots of things. But, well, there are the fear periods to get through, the socialization, the adjustment to a life away from her siblings... From day one she was entirely, desperately bonded to me and this hasn't changed much. She never once stole a shoe, chewed a sock, nipped or bit. But she was one constant rumble of thunder: non stop growling at every noise - be it the sound of me brushing my teeth or someone walking past the house. She would growl at people in the distance, at people who came towards us to say hello, at anything and everything really. She also made lots of friends - anyone who I was friends with was quite quickly accepted by her and she eventually even made some doggie friends. She didn't attend puppy class because by the time that started she was too old but she did go to beginners class. Certain things there felt wrong to me: I was advised to pull her out from under the chair I was sitting on and force her to be with the other dogs and I was not to stroke / reassure her if she showed any hesitation or fear. Now: is is my firm belief that fear cannot be reinforced by offering reassurance and that flooding is not a helpful way of helping a dog to gain confidence. But I went along with it because - compared to the other young dogs present - she was so, well, different and a bit of a conundrum... 

Whilst still a pup, Lills was attacked by a cat, accidentally nipped by a sausage dog and chased by a playful lurcher. I believe that a balanced dog would have recovered from these incidences with encouragement and sensitive handling. Not so Lills: she became afraid of all dogs she didn't already know and to this day is petrified of cats. 

Food wise, it became clear early on that she couldn't tolerate anything with grains in it: she would become almost instantly itchy, her anal glands would play up and her ears get VERY waxy very quickly. So we tried a grain free kibble but this gave her such digestive problems that she began to lose a lot of weight. Eventually, we switched to RAW food (prey model) and physically, Lills flourished. 

At about 10 months, she had her first season: she was utterly overwhelmed by the attention she got from all other doggies (except for a very few days when she behaved like an absolute trollop) and because of the way she was weeing, she got a major infection that resulted in all sorts of problems. 

Until this point, she had been relatively ok with vet visits but on this occasion, a really bungled attempt to get blood out of her and a rather irate vet resulted in Lills no longer coping well. Whilst unwell, she attacked a stranger in the street who she had jumped up at mistakenly thinking it was a friend of ours. She also became reactive to other dogs, except those that she already knew. It was a devastating time and really, really hard to understand. 

More to follow...


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh Miss Lily I am sorry to read this - Lily is such a beautiful dog to look at and you both obviously love each other very much...
Reading your second post is quite tough as you are writing it with the wisdom of hindsight. It does sound as if she was a very shy pup and one has to wonder whether she had early negative experiences... 

Great Danes are very different characters to our sensitive little poodle types... I describe Kiki as a real thinking dog and it sounds as if Lils is the same. Dot blunders through life never worrying unduly about anything and bouncing back from the odd disaster with no hard feelings towards rambunctious labradors or dropped saucepans... kiki on the otherhand never forgets an experience and although she copes you can see her thinking in certain situations! For example when she was about 5 months old we got caught up in coast guard helicopter practice on our beach and Kiki completely freaked and bolted as the helicopter swooped in over us, landed and then swooped off over us. for a long time if I even heard a helicopter I had to put her on lead because even if it was high up above us she would panic run.... over the last 4 and a half years we have progressed and she is fine - although she still freezes and tracks the helicopter as it flies overhead...
Your instincts about that training class are 100% right and definitely nothing was gained by dragging her out and forcing her to interact.... 
Hormones make nothing easy. Tell Lils I absolutely understand, menopause is the pits...

This does not have to be the end of the story... progress can still be made. I suspect 2nd may be able to recommend a local trainer who can positively help. In the meantime much love to you and the gorgeous Lilly x


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Oh Marzi, you are so right! She is absolutely beautiful (inside and out), she is totally a thinker - or over thinker - and it is by no means the end of the story! In terms of early life experiences, I'm not so sure. I wonder whether she was shy / timid from the start and whether the boundless confidence of her siblings simply made it easier for her to stay in the background so that she didn't have to come forward and take risks.. I've realised though that there is little point in dwelling on this as its something I cannot change: having a Lilly in your life doesn't half teach you some valuable life lessons!

Anyway, on with her/our story...

From the beginning, Lills was a tad obsessive: even whilst toilet training she would not poo inside (and initially not wee outside). She was absolutely determined that she would only poo on white stripes so we had lots of embarrassing (and sometimes slightly dangerous) incidences where she would suddenly squat on a zebra crossing or pull me into a road... She's still fastidious but thankfully white lines are no longer things of special interest to her. During her season, she cleaned herself (and my home) obsessively and I forgot, actually, that she also had a phantom pregnancy and its this and the infection that eventually caused me to decide that she would be spayed after this first season. I had otherwise thought that I would wait longer in the hope that the surge in hormones would help her to mature and gain in confidence.

Lills was spayed 90 days after her first season. She recovered well - too well in fact - and didn't seem to have too many problems. Her reactivity however got increasingly worse and it got to the point where any stranger coming towards us would cause her to have a total meltdown. With people she knows, there were no problems whatsoever and if she gives you her heart, you could do anything at all with her. She never ever resource guarded, never became destructive. 

I found the experience absolutely devastating: I was / am convinced that Lills is not an aggressive dog which sounds odd given the behaviour I am describing. I also found that other people (people who had never met us before) were incredibly irritating with their various bits of advice: oh, you should force her to engage, she must have been abused, try a water pistol, she just needs training, all dogs like me, small dog syndrome... blah, blah, blah. It wears you out, this constant critique, and eventually causes you to become very unsure of yourself. I started to think that it must be my fault, that I was doing everything wrong. Its a horrible, vicious cycle and I'm sure there is a knock on effect too.

Lills has, almost from day one, had a sitter who is also an experienced positive, reward based trainer. She loves her sitter, knows her dogs and is largely fine with other visiting dogs - either keeping out of their way or making friends with them. You would think that she was doing fine (although still reactive). Because of Lills' dependence on me and my need to travel / work long hours at times, I was conscious that she needed to be used to being away from me for longer periods so we started with overnight stays. Until recently, the longest that Lills stayed with her sitter was three days and five nights. Incredibly tho, she would not poo when she was away from me. It became really obvious when for the whole three days, she retained and as soon as I picked her up, she poo'd six or seven times in quick succession. This is Lills to a tee - even when on the outside everything seems ok, inside she is very very anxious and constantly worrying.

So, in sheer desperation and with my self-confidence destroyed we tried many, many different things. The absolute low point was getting a so-called 'dog whisperer' (NOT the Cesar Milan type) to come and see us. He came highly recommended and yes, whilst with him, Lills didn't react to anything - cats, dogs or people. He also sent me pictures of her out on a walk with him and in a café and if you didn't know Lills, you'd think she was fine BUT: in the first pic she was drooling (indicative of a fear response - particularly in a dog who doesn't normally drool) and in the second she was sitting next to him but leaning as far away as possible. He later told me that she had poo'd in his car. His thinking was that she just needed to go - but this is a dog who can retain for days so again, I think that this was out of total and abject fear. This person told me that Lills didn't trust me and for as long as her recall wasn't 100%, she should stay on a lead. He recommended a retractable lead and suggested she be attached to me both indoors and outside.

I am not proud of what I did and its a difficult thing to write about: never, ever, ever again, will I allow a stranger to take my dog out of my sight. I absolutely don't think that he mistreated her in any way but I do think that he had zero understanding of fearful / anxious dogs and their needs. Its amazing what desperation causes you to do and how vulnerable one becomes. Again, I've learnt my lesson and there is little point dwelling on this. I tried to put in place the various recommendations: it made both me and Lills miserable and it certainly didn't have a positive impact on our relationship. 

Other things we tried: various supplements including tailor made Bach flower remedies which were made for both her and for me and had zero impact. A qualified behaviourist who was lovely and clearly knowledgeable but who again, didn't understand the extent to which Lills' behaviour changes around different people and the extent to which she keeps things inside. Our vet who, when I asked for help in getting her more comfortable with vet visits, decided to prescribe ACP (!!!)... I searched the internet for hours, joined various (very useful) facebook groups and learnt that: a) I wasn't the only person experiencing these problems with their dog and that b) it wasn't my fault and I should stop feeling, well, sorry for myself!

And that's enough for today. The story continues but it will have to wait a little more before it is written here!


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

So, after all of the research, I decided that desensitization and counter conditioning was going to be our main focus. For more than a year, Lills and I would go and look at dogs from a distance whilst she would munch on bucket loads of treats. I started making my own because the sheer expense was getting ridiculous. If the dogs were far enough away, Lills would happily munch on her treats and I began to think we were making progress. The biggest impediments to real progress tho were off lead dogs bounding over to her / me and the lack of consideration of other dog owners. Still we persevered. Walks with Lills involved constantly crossing pavements, hiding behind cars or trees while other dogs walked past, sitting on the common feeding treats. It got to the point tho (especially during the last winter) that Lills became more and more reluctant to go out. For a few months, we were lucky if we got beyond the end of our road. I began to think seriously about whether Miss Lills would be better off living somewhere less densely populated with humans and dogs and spoke with her sitter about the possibility of her going to live there. Lills' sitter would have her in a heart beat. We got as far as her going to stay there for 2 weeks: I can remember the sense of freedom I had whilst she was away and felt so much more relaxed. Still the thought of not having Lills in my life as a very sad one and I felt that I had completely failed.

By chance, towards the end of December, I spoke with a behaviourist on facebook. She suggested that Lills might benefit from a kibble called 'Breakthrough'. Knowing that kibble had in the past caused her problems, I was reluctant. More than this, what was written about it seemed too good to be true in terms of the changes it had made to other fearful dogs' behaviour. We chatted for a while and I learnt that the kibble was formulated according to a diet conceived of by Val Strong. It was a diet that was intended to help raise the levels of Serotonin in the brain through manipulation of the way in which amino acids are metabolised. I researched extensively and discovered that there is some evidence that certain breeds of dogs, amongst them cocker spaniels, can have difficulties synthesizing adequate quantities of, in particular, tryptophan which is needed for maintaining adequate levels of serotonin. I learnt that Tyrosine - another amino acid which tends to more successfully get through the blood-brain barrier - increases the amount of noradrenaline and dopamine - noradrenaline in particular causes high states of arousal and reactivity. I decided that little would be lost by trying what the behaviourist was saying and that maybe, just maybe, something would be gained.

So we started on a new dietary regime: Lills got her normal quantity of raw food plus vitamin B6. 2 1/2 to 3 hours later, she got a tablespoonful of mashed potato. Luckily, she loved the potato and it wasn't too difficult to remember to take some with me if we went out. Her sitter was on board too. The rationale behind this regime was that B6 would help Lills to synthesize Tryptophan and that the potato, as a pure carbohydrate, given a few hours later, would cause her pancreas to release insulin. The insulin would cause physiological changes that would allow the Tryptophan to pass through the blood brain barrier more easily and inhibit the Tyrosine from doing so.

After only after a few days, I noticed that Lills was sleeping more peacefully - I had often wondered whether she had nightmares because of the way she was breathing when she was sleeping. I noticed that she was shaking herself off less frequently. And I also began to notice that she was more able to listen to me. 

Now, nearly five months later, the results are really rather remarkable: Lills' reactivity to other dogs has all but disappeared and she doesn't 'trigger stack' anymore. She still prefers to avoid most dogs (although she quite likes little ones now) and is still worried by lots of things and doesn't like to go too far away from home but oh my gosh, the difference in her in so many ways is just astonishing. Sometimes, we can even walk past a dog on the same side of the pavement. She is calmer, more attentive and definitely happier. I can now stop to talk to people without the fear that Lills will have a meltdown. As long as people she doesn't know don't try to touch her I know that we are safe. She now poos normally when with her sitter and is happier to play with the other dogs there. We have a long way to go and she has a lot of catching up and unlearning of well rehearsed behaviours to do but we will get there. I am absolutely committed to helping her feel comfortable and happy and we are definitely now on the right track. 

I really hope that this rather detailed account will be helpful to someone out there. Its not been easy to write all this down - and of course there is lots that I've had to leave out. I've made plenty of mistakes along the way and these are perhaps the most difficult to write about but I think that they are an important part of the story. Everyone makes mistakes but its really important not to give up and to keep an open mind because sometimes, just sometimes, amazing things do happen. Lills, I think, will always be a cockaoddpoo, but she's going nowhere and our future together is looking so much brighter now.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Wow. Fantastic and YOU are amazing. Miss Lil is so very, very lucky to have you in her life 
Now we need a shed load of photos of the gorgeous girl xx


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## Alinos (May 19, 2014)

This is amazing. And you have so much love courage and patience to keep at it and not give up on miss lily. Lots of love and best wishes to both of you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Miss Lilly is such a lovely girl to have you and your sitter sounds like a star too 

Really interesting about the diet - I have read about it but not heard any true accounts of someone who has used it so really good to hear it made some positve changes.

So sad to hear you were let down by people too along the way  the first dog training class did you a huge diservice as did the impatient vet and the so called expert trainer (wonder if it is the one I know of who is equally poor  but charges vast sums of money) 

So glad your future together is looking much brighter and that she has you as her rock in her life


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you, all, for your lovely responses! I've always believed that deciding to share your life with a dog was a decision that would be for life, regardless of difficulties. I fear that Lills could easily have become one of those pups that appear for sale on various websites at a young age because owners can't cope if she had been chosen by the wrong people. Or in a rehoming centre where I am not sure she would have survived given the huge numbers of dogs that need new homes and the complexities of trying to rehabilitate a fearful dog. She wouldn't even have coped in kennels for that matter! Worst case scenario (but not at all far fetched I think) would have been that she'd have bitten and been euthanized.

That being the case, trying to help her to become the dog that I actually_ want_ to share my life with seemed like the only reasonable way to proceed. I have, as I said above, made many mistakes and as 2ndhand points out, been let down by many people but I also have some amazing support (her sitter for one, but many others who adore Lills and can see through some of her less appealing behaviours!). I've never had a 'tricky' dog before, but I'm starting to think that the tricky ones are perhaps the really special ones - Lills is such a lovely dog when you know her and I absolutely adore her.

The diet has made an extraordinary difference. I presume that a prescribed SSRI would have done pretty much the same thing but it wasn't something that was ever offered and frankly, if the effects can be achieved through a good quality , species appropriate diet then why resort to drugs?

Today, Lills initiated play with a beautiful, big, black flat coated setter we were walking with and who she had never met before. I think she surprised herself: she went straight from that into the most magnificent doodle dash! For most people that would just be normal dog behaviour. For Lills tho its extraordinary and my heart is singing!! I am so proud of her! 

She will stay on her diet for life I should think It's a pfaff but so, so worth it!!

And Marzi, I promise I'll post pics soon!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I have found the dogs with difficulties are the truly special ones too and repay a million times the effort needed to sort them out. That is so lovely that she was brave enough to play this morning - sounds like you are really on an upwards spiral and long may it continue


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