# Desperate for advice re rehoming Alfie



## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

I am very sad to report that, after a promising start, following on from Alfie's one to one training session two months ago, we have again reached crisis point.

Those of you who were so kind and helpful to me on the various occasions I asked for help regarding Alfie's guarding issues, will no doubt remember that following Tim the trainer's visit, all seemed to be going well. I followed his advice to the letter, removing Alfie from the kitchen, which had become his territory (in his eyes), and obtaining a crate for him in the quietest area of the dining room, over by the patio doors.

Now, outside of the house Alfie is wonderful. He sits at the kerb, without being asked, he walks nicely on the lead, he is well socialised on the park, both with dogs and humans. Unfortunately, within the home, his possessive, guarding trait persists. On losing his kitchen territory, he simply acquired new territory within the dining room. Things became so bad that he was sitting in the evenings guarding his crate and growling if we so much as got up from the sofa 20 feet away. On one occasion he flew at me as I walked towards the door and my boys and I spent the evening huddled on the sofa wondering how we were going to get up to go to bed. Following this I got rid of the crate altogether, as I figured it was a huge stress to him, and moved his bedding to another area of the living room. It is a through room. This morning, just as I was thinking that we had had a better few days, he came for me again. This was without a warning growl, a full on unprovoked attack - although I'm sure Alfie felt justified in that I was taking a book from the shelf. He had been lying down at the other side of the room - I thought asleep after a long walk - and he came over when he heard me at the bookshelf. One second he was sitting watching me and the next he flew at me and caught me under my chin and on my arm. Fortunately, he just grazed and bruised my skin with his teeth, but I was so shocked that I was hyperventilating and couldn't stop shaking and crying for some time. 

I am so unhappy at the thought of letting Alfie go, but equally unhappy at the thought of living with this situation for the next 15 years. I am so stressed. I am not experienced enough to work with him, and I really do wonder sometimes whether he might have cocker rage. His mother is a golden cocker, and I did read that they are prone to it. I phoned the breeder today and she said that, in her opinion,he has established dominance over me and that it would be very difficult to alter the situation. She suggested that I rehome him, to give him the chance of a new start, but did not offer to take him back herself. I am asking for advice on what to do now. He would need to go to an experienced owner, and not into a family home with children. It is all so traumatic, and I really do feel torn. Alfie has such a good life with us and when I see him running free and romping around with his puppy friends on the park, I am so full of love for him. But I do feel, after this morning, that this is crunch time.

Sorry for such a rambling post. Christine and Alfie x


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

So sorry things have not worked out and sorry to hear the breeder will not take him back 

Please get in touch with the Doodle Trust who have experienced foster homes where they can assess him and retrain and find the right home for him.

http://www.doodletrust.com/ 

Molly is testament to resource guarding dogs doing fine in the right circumstances so please give them a call and they will be able to help.

Many hugs as I know it is not easy


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Poor, poor you it is a heart breaking situation and I think you are doing the right thing by not keeping him. Hopefully you'll find someone willing to take on a such a challenging dog.


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## Janey153 (Mar 26, 2015)

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this as I know he's been difficult for you. I can't offer any advice. Perhaps 2ndhandgal's suggestion may be able to retrain him and come back to you. Thinking of you.


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

Here is an article on "cocker rage". http://www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/rage_syndrome.htm
It is very very rare and I'm positive not what your dog has. I have no clue who your breeder was so this is an in general opinion. Any breeder who will not take back one of their puppies is suspect and along those lines, it is possible she is breeding ill tempered dogs. 
Not everyone is capable of dealing with behavior issues. Why he has these issues doesn't matter right now. I am sure there is someone out there with the time, knowledge and patience to turn this little boy around. Do your part in rehoming. Research and be sure he goes to a good rescue and I'm sure he will have a good life.


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

So sorry to hear of all your trouble with Alfie. I hope everything works out favorably for both your family and little Alfie.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. It is all so very sad.

I have looked at the doodle trust website and it is comforting to know that there is an organisation which will help find Alfie a good home. Is it possible that they would take him for a period of time to assess him and then return him to me, or is there no way back once Alfie has gone to them? As you can tell, I am still wavering, but after yesterday's attack I know I have to do something. I shall be phoning them in the morning.

I have also looked at the article on cocker rage, and I agree that it does not fit Alfie. I found some information last night, online, about conflict aggression in puppies, which fits the bill perfectly, in that it mainly affects the puppies of first time owners and usually is directed towards the more softly spoken female in the household. He will do anything, immediately, for my husband but largely ignores me unless what I am suggesting is to his advantage. For example, I can halt any grumpy episode in its tracks by the suggestion of a walk!

Anyhow, I digress. I'm just trying to understand what goes on in his pretty, little head. I'll let you all know the outcome of my phone call to the doodle trust. Christine and Alfie x


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

alfiemorton said:


> conflict aggression in puppies, which fits the bill perfectly, in that it mainly affects the puppies of first time owners and usually is directed towards the more softly spoken female in the household. He will do anything, immediately, for my husband but largely ignores me unless what I am suggesting is to his advantage. For example, I can halt any grumpy episode in its tracks by the suggestion of a walk!


This makes perfect sense to me. The trouble is that dogs tend to overlearn things and get stuck in repetitive patterns. Hopefully he'll thrive in a new home with dog savy adults. Because you have children I think you'd be nuts to try and keep him.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I am so sorry that you have come to this point and can only imagine how you are feeling.
Do not be too hard on yourself - you are still trying to do the right thing for Alfie.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

I agree Fairlie, although my boys are 15 and 20 and both 6'3", and he really doesn't bother them, just me.

This is so hard...


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Oh, your boys are not really boys, they are men. What do they and your husband think about all this?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I am pretty sure the Doodle Trust will work with you to see if they can help you keep Alfie firstly and only move on to rehoming if that is the only option.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Yes, Fairlie, I suppose they are men, but they're still my boys!! My husband and I live separately, but at the same address. He's in the annexe and I'm in the main house with the boys. But we are friends, and he has tried to help me with Alfie. He thinks that I've either got to get to grips with him or rehome him. Unfortunately, he is in ill health and cannot take Alfie on, which is a real shame as they have a great relationship. My younger son is too busy with his life to bother much either way. My eldest son is the one who is more attached to Alfie and gets involved with walking him, etc, and I think he would be really sad to see him go. I don't know how I feel at the moment. Worn out physically and emotionally, I think describes me best!

Thank you, 2ndhandgal, for the advice regarding doodle trust. I'll talk to them tomorrow and report back. Christine and Alfie x


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi, not been on for a while so just catching up, sorry you have reached this stage but it does sound like you have worked very hard doing all you can, I met some of the doodle trust people at a show a couple of months ago and they were very nice, may also be worth contacting Stephen Charlton of Jukee doodles, a cockapoo breeder from licolnshire, he also set up the cockapoo club of GB, I did sign up but never really got involved, they have a busy forum but i decided I prefer this so just have a nosy at that one very occasionally, any I digress, i know they have a rehoming section and I have read in the past that Stephen and Julia have had dogs into their home to assess them for a while and sometimes worked with owners which has resulted in the dogs not needing rehoming after all, it maybe worth contacting them as well, I think Stephen's numbers are 01205 481173 and 07590 200028.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Thank you, Dawn. I shall take a look at that website too.
I have spoken to a lady at doodle trust who is putting me in touch with another lady who will be able to advise me initially as to how to approach Alfie in the short term. She said that they like to try and work with owners before resorting to rehoming, as the advice they would give to the new family would be the same as that which they would give to me, and that chances are I would end up with the lovely version of Alfie , rather than someone else doing so.
I am prepared to listen to what she has to say, but I'm not sure that Alfie can be turned around by me. He guards more areas of the house every day. He's currently sitting on the top stair, growling if I so much as set a foot on the bottom one. His behaviour is truly atrocious.
The lady I spoke to this morning said that Alfie is picking on me, as his adolescent self is trying to assert dominance, and I am the weakest member of the family. I am also the one who does the most for him, and was told that, bizarrely, this does not earn his respect. I suppose rather like ungrateful teenagers who expect their mum to run around after them, and show them little or no respect! Yes, I am talking about my own boys here!!
Anyhow, I shall keep you informed. Christine and Alfie x


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## CharNC (Aug 19, 2015)

Good luck Christine. I hope everything works out for the best. I know this is a very tough situation to be in.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Poor you ... as a mother of live at home man boys I hear your desperation 
I hope that you don't feel too trapped. If you do not want to cope with Alfie on top of everything else in your life you need to be honest about that. 
I am sure he can learn to be a good lad, but you will have to really want to do the teaching and believe that you can.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Well, I had a very long conversation with a local dog expert, from Doodle Trust, who could yet be Alfie's saviour. She, somewhat miraculously, lives only a mile or two from my home! She gave me some initial advice and is coming to see us (or more particularly Alfie) at the weekend.

Her take on things is that Alfie views me as a litter mate. He is trying to establish his position in the litter as alpha male. In his eyes, he owns my home and everything in it, so he is standing guard over everything. Obviously, as a puppy, that is a very tall order for him, and explains the stress that he has been under, as he has been ever watchful.

I was told to largely ignore him. If he growls when I approach, I am to turn my back on him and walk away. If he won't come to me for time out, I am to shut the door on him and leave him to it. I am not to fuss over him and if he jumps up at me I am to walk away. Only if he sits, with the single command "Sit", am I to show him any physical affection, and then not too much. When he sits when asked I am to say "Good" in a soothing, low tone. If he is going for something forbidden, eg books on the shelf, I am to utter a short, sharp "A" sound, similar to that which you'd use to get the attention of a child who is doing something forbidden, and whose attention you need to grab immediately.

Anyhow, armed with this info, I feel far more in control. Because none of this involves confronting Alfie, I don't have to be fearful. I have found that walking away means that he follows me. The sharp "A" (as in "a for apple") has stopped him in his tracks and he has trotted back over to me. He did that three or four times yesterday evening. Unbelievable! He has not been on guard and on high alert the last couple of evenings, which tend to be his worst time, and has instead settled down with us and played with his toys.

If he keeps up this behaviour, I can see a glimmer of hope on the horizon. Kate did say that she had high hopes that I could turn Alfie around, but that, if I couldn't, the kindest for all of us would be to have him rehomed. She told me that I should see results pretty quickly, if all goes to plan.

I'll keep you all informed of Alfie's progress. Christine and Alfie x


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## CharNC (Aug 19, 2015)

Thats great news Christine. I hope everything continues to progress positively. Keep us posted. You and Alfie are in my thoughts.


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## Janey153 (Mar 26, 2015)

Much luck Christine and Alfie x


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## Goosey (Aug 22, 2014)

Good luck Christine, I really hope it all goes well. Love a story with a happy ending! Hopefully this will be one of them. All the best
It all sounds reassuring and hope the outcome is a good one. Keep us posted on Alfie's progress.


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Well done! Anyone can see you're working really hard to give Alfie every chance, so feel proud and smile.
And if it helps your self esteem, I'm pretty sure Poppy rates me as the lowest in the pecking order here too


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

That sounds like a very positive update 

Fingers and toes firmly crossed


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Well done you. 
Don't forget to praise yourself too.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Well done, so much is achieved when people just make a few changes but changing your mindset/attitude is often the most important, i meant to say before that it maybe a good thing to restrict his access to upstairs. it is SO hard to occasionally withhold affection but it is often a case of just choosing the correct time to give it. Often we feel that we are just Dudley's staff (I'm sure he thinks we are), so I will ask him to sit before I let him out when he has barked to tell us he wants to go outside, and he barks to say he wants his dinner but he will have to sit and wait and not touch it until I say he can. I think all these little things help. I bet you can't wait to meet the Doodle Trust lady, hope it goes really well for you all.


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## arlo (Mar 11, 2013)

I really do hope the positive signs keep up, Alfie is a very lucky boy to have you fighting so hard to find a solution, as others have said you should be so proud of yourself. Hope the visit on the weekend helps even more.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Somehow motivational music is playing in my mind. Can you blast a song like "its my life" as you put Alfie into his sit?

"It's My Life"

This ain't a song for the broken-hearted 
No silent prayer for the faith-departed 
I ain't gonna be just a face in the crowd 
You're gonna hear my voice 
When I shout it out loud 

[Chorus:]
It's my life 
It's now or never 
I ain't gonna live forever 
I just want to live while I'm alive 
(It's my life) 
My heart is like an open highway 
Like Frankie said 
I did it my way 
I just wanna live while I'm alive 
It's my life 

This is for the ones who stood their ground 
For Alfie's mama who never backed down 
Tomorrow's getting harder make no mistake 
Luck ain't even lucky 
Got to make your own breaks 

Better stand tall when they're calling you out 
Don't bend, don't break, baby, don't back down 

etc....with minor artistic changes


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Thank you so much for all your kind words - and inspirational lyrics too!!
It's so heart warming to have so much support. Christine and Alfie x


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

How is it going now?


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Hello Dawn,

Sorry not to have posted an update yet, but I am still waiting for Kate from Doodle Trust to visit me. She was due to come on Sunday, but had other commitments, so she has rescheduled for Thursday morning.

I can only say that, at the moment, I am soldiering on! Alfie is, on the whole, more relaxed, so I am seeing that as a step forward.

I'll let you know what comes out of Kate's visit, and thank you so much for your concern. It does mean a lot to have so much support.

Christine and Alfie x


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## beekeeper (May 3, 2015)

I really admire you for trying so hard and not giving up. I guess even if you see quick results, it might be a long journey for you and Alfie. Keep strong - you can both do it!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Just catching up with this, as I have not been around here for a while. I just wanted to congratulate you for your kind heart and will to carry on for this little guy. I am so glad that things do seem to be improving and bless him, it sounds very much like he needs you to guide and lead him. I hope the positive improvements continue. Best wishes


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## bearthecockapoo (Mar 17, 2015)

Good for you for putting in the effort with Alfie! It sounds like your efforts are starting to pay off if he is already showing results before someone has even come to meet him. I hope everything works out.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Well, we have now had a visit from Kate from Doodle Trust. She was a lovely, positive lady who exuded authority and calm with Alfie. We had a long talk about all our options, but for the moment we are carrying on with following the advice she gave me, before I met her, over the phone. I have 4 weeks to work with Alfie on changing his behaviour. Otherwise, Doodle Trust will take over and attempt to rehome him.

Kate has reassured me that it is unlikely that my treatment of Alfie had led to his difficulties. She said that it was obvious that he had a strong bond with me. Furthermore, she said that she would have no hesitation in rehoming another dog with me in the future. This made me feel so much better, as this whole experience has begun to made me feel quite inadequate.

Doodle Trust have seen problems in other red cockapoos, and it would appear to be a fault caused by his red lineage. Added to this, when she researched his kennel club papers and his 5 generation pedigree, she found that there had been some inbreeding on his dad's side, and very recently too. His apricot poodle dad's parents, Alfie's grandparents, are/were half brother and sister. This might very well play a part in Alfie's temperamental difficulties. Kate said that, all in all, I have been very unfortunate. 

Of the other two red cockapoos which Doodle Trust placed within experienced foster homes, one was successfully rehomed and the other, sadly, had to be put to sleep. This makes me even more determined to see what I can do for little Alfie. As Kate said, it really is a fight for his life.

I feel so very sad about it all, but am just taking one day at a time. Today has mainly been a good one. Christine and Alfie x


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Good to hear, and that is all you can do, is take it one day at a time.
I'm sure all will end well of a very much loved Alfie.
Have the breeders been contacted over Alfie's behaviour??


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## arlo (Mar 11, 2013)

Really hope the four weeks will make a definate change for the better. That is quite shocking about the in breeding I fear it is alot more common than we are aware of, that is why so many people on here do endless research before hand to find one of the many brilliant breeders, take my hats off to them as I had no idea when I got Arlo. Good luck you really are doing all you can.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Tinman said:


> Good to hear, and that is all you can do, is take it one day at a time.
> I'm sure all will end well of a very much loved Alfie.
> Have the breeders been contacted over Alfie's behaviour??


Yes, I spoke to the breeder myself, but got no help from her.
Kate, from Doodle Trust, is going to contact her to make her aware of the inbreeding, which she should have been aware of. Christine and Alfie


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

arlo said:


> Really hope the four weeks will make a definate change for the better. That is quite shocking about the in breeding I fear it is alot more common than we are aware of, that is why so many people on here do endless research before hand to find one of the many brilliant breeders, take my hats off to them as I had no idea when I got Arlo. Good luck you really are doing all you can.


Hi Amanda,

Yes, I can only say that I wish I had had some idea of the possibility of inbreeding beforehand. It never crossed my mind. I would then have scoured the Kennel Club paperwork, and said no to Alfie. But when I picked him up, along with his paperwork, the Kennel Club stamps to me really were an indication that all was well, and apart from a quick glance at some of the ridiculous names given to these dogs, I paid them no further attention until Kate picked up on it on Thursday. Yes, I really do hope that the next 4 weeks can be a turning point for Alfie. Every day is a new opportunity to get it right! Christine


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Sadly I think that undoubtedly breeding is an issue - in all breeds. My Dad used to breed GSDs; some breeders would talk about line breeding as if it was a good thing, when actually it is in breeding in a slightly less chronic way.... you may choose a type (or colour) that you particularly like and see that stud and his line as 'good' even thinking it is good to have it represented on both sides (sire and dame) - however it is the hidden associations - maybe temperament issue or dentition or hip/knee/elbow or eye problems - or any other nasty, that may also be in that line that can cause real problems.
When I first was looking at cockapoos it seemed that golden and choccy were the colours that people were desiring now it is definitely red.
It doesn't have to be a problem, but certainly look at the breeding and I would be concerned to see 'line breeding' in a 5 generation pedigree.

Congratulations for all that you are doing with Alfie - I am so glad that you feel encouraged by the Doodle Trust person - you are obviously a caring a committed poo owner. I also really hope that Alfie can be turned around.


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm sorry but I think you need to let your trainer go back and read all your post from day one in here. You have been afraid of this puppy and letting him establish dominance since you got him. First it was the sofa, he growled and backed of afraid. Then he got treats for biting the leash. You got frustrated. These are smart dogs. He learned a clever way to get treats. Then he growled when you came near his dish. All these things are normal puppy trying to lead the pack that can be handled and trained out. Then what he was barking. He's a dog. That's another behavior you could end. Now he knows you are afraid of him. He is trying to you.
"Cocker rage" is extremely rare and not more likely in reds, more common in solid color males. And this little guy is not a cocker. 
Cocker rage happens suddenly, for no reason at all. The attack is vicious, and they can't be trained out of it. 

http://www.about-cocker-spaniels.com/rage-syndrome.html

http://bsl.bsl-sbt.com/breeds/ragesyndromeincockerspaniels.php?s=&l=

If you are afraid of your dog, and from all your threads I see that is the major issue, please give him up now before some prat convinces you to put him down and buy a better puppy from someone who doesn't line breed.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

dmgalley said:


> I'm sorry but I think you need to let your trainer go back and read all your post from day one in here. You have been afraid of this puppy and letting him establish dominance since you got him. First it was the sofa, he growled and backed of afraid. Then he got treats for biting the leash. You got frustrated. These are smart dogs. He learned a clever way to get treats. Then he growled when you came near his dish. All these things are normal puppy trying to lead the pack that can be handled and trained out. Then what he was barking. He's a dog. That's another behavior you could end. Now he knows you are afraid of him. He is trying to you.
> "Cocker rage" is extremely rare and not more likely in reds, more common in solid color males. And this little guy is not a cocker.
> Cocker rage happens suddenly, for no reason at all. The attack is vicious, and they can't be trained out of it.
> 
> ...


Want to give you double rep for this post Donna! 
Please do not let anyone convince you that his colour is the reason for his behaviour. The only way this could possibly have a bearing is if the breeder was so intent on breeding 'popular' reds that they bred dogs with bad temper just to get the colour. I would say 99% of aggression is fear/guarding aggression. This is what Alfie has and the right person can train and work with him to reduce if not eliminate this. The fact he is only really like this with you tells me he is In control of his actions and has decided you are the weakest link and therefore all his aggression is aimed at you. I know you are trying everything you can but these dogs are so smart they just know who they can try it on with. Totally subconscious on your part but yes you are afraid of him, understandably and he knows it.
If you decide to rehome please let me know as I may be able to help. I normally recommend the doodle trust but while the ladies training tips are good, the fact she is going for his colour as being a possible fills me with dread.
Please just use me as another option if needed.


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Really Donna, I think you are being rather judgemental. You don't know me, you don't know my circumstances and you don't know Alfie. You've obviously taken some time to look back through my old threads though, and to pick fault with me, but you certainly haven't read them very carefully. So, I have just taken the time to revisit all the threads I started. 

You are wrong in saying that I have been afraid of Alfie since the day I got him. You are wrong when you say that I gave him treats for biting on the lead! If you read my post again, I said that I gave him a treat for dropping the lead and sitting nicely. Is that so wrong? And what is wrong with asking about Alfie's barking? Yes, I can see that you think that I have asked some silly questions, but I'm sure that in amongst your many thousands of posts you must have asked some silly questions too at some point. You say that I became frustrated with Alfie. And you have never been frustrated by your own dogs? Really? Well then, you are very lucky. 

I have worked, and am working, very hard on training undesirable behaviours out of Alfie. Perhaps if you had had a dog who had launched himself at you or bitten you for reaching for the remote control or for a book on the shelf, for opening the curtains, or for moving a chair back under the table you might be more than a little wary yourself.

Finally, I find it surprising that you would refer to anyone from the Doodle Trust as a prat. You clearly do not know what this organisation is. These are experienced dog lovers, dedicating their time to helping owners in times of need to keep their dogs, or, if all else fails, to find them a loving home. Putting a dog to sleep would be the very, very final option, in a dog whose dangerous behaviour could not be turned around by experienced dog handlers, and would certainly not be something I would be persuaded to do, or that I would have any influence over. Nor would I be buying a better puppy, as you put it.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I believe that it would be naive to say that there is no genetic connection with temperament. I do not think anyone believes that the colour per se is the problem - but that while breeding for colour (which definitely happens) it is also possible to breed in other hidden undesirable traits.
None of us are perfect dog owners and any of us could encounter a dog that we might find less straight forward than previous dogs we have had experience of. It is dangerous to think that is not the case.
Seeking help is good - finding the right help is wonderful. But nothing will 'sort out a dog' better than understanding, tenacious persistence and loving forgiveness.
We are all a passionate lot - we all love our dogs and in that way of dog crazy mad people sometimes we are too quick to perceive faults.
We could take a leaf out of our dogs' book and be just as quick to wag and fogive.
Keep going with Alfie.


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm not judging or perceiving fault. You air your problems asking for advice you get it. I wasn't mean I was truth full and I do not need to know a dog personally to know the facts about"cocker rage" and color being linked to aggression. It simply isn't. That's a scientific fact and the more we handle people like this with kid gloves the more the problem persists. I'm not saying she didn't try. Everything I started was a fact. 
And Just so you know yes I went back because I felt like I read a lot of post for a long time from you about this aggressive puppy that you didn't know how to walk past to go to bed. I wanted to put a picture together of him over time to see if I thought it was learned behavior or truly bad breeding. 
If you don't want people weighing in on your life don't post it because not everyone is going to agree with you.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Marzi, I agree that temperament has some genetic component but what makes a fussy baby into a pain in the ass adult isn't just the baby's temperament but how the adults around respond to the fussiness - the interaction between temperament and environment. The "cocker rage" that is being talked about is some biological event that happens in the brain and essentially is some type of seizure/trigger than is internal to the brain and has no known external trigger. Alfie clearly has external triggers. That by itself eliminates cocker rage as a source of his aggression. Frankly at this point it's less useful trying to figure out what and who caused it but how to go about changing Alfie's reactions to you and to certain situations. And here is why I believe it is not helpful for someone to tell you that it's cocker rage - because by placing the blame on Alfie's genes there is nothing anyone can do about it beyond medication and eventually putting the dog down. It's like saying that my apple tree just makes bad apples and so I expect them to. As a consequence I don't take care of it like I do. I don't make sure it's watered, add nutrients to the soil, because I solely attribute the cause of the bad apples to the very essence of the tree (you gardeners know that with any plant you have to give it what it needs for it to flourish) and I'll just chop it down and put something else in. We do the same about people and cause a lot of really bad consequences but that's a whole other topic. 

The other thing to consider is if there were such a thing as a cocker rage gene it should either be much more prevalent and I mean at least 1/4 to 1/2 of all cocker and cocker crosses should be Cujos if it were a dominant gene that is expressed without any environmental push. It should also be more common amongst litter mates and other siblings regardless of color because that's how genes work. You have more genetic commonality with your siblings than you do with anyone else. So if cocker rage was a true thing in cockapoos - poodles should have this genetic problem too (think about how recommendations when you look for a breeder for one parent to be clear of genetic problems) but poodles don't so it doesn't make sense. In fact it should be diluted out amongst cockapoos. 

Lastly - if you read the research that cocker rage is based on (because I did), any done with any attempt at scientific rigor does not make any claims about cocker rage. And the one that does is really biased and bad science. Moreover, there's a famous trainer on your side of the pond who "specializes" in cocker rage. And he perpetuates this stereotype of cocker rage in reds while at the same time making lots of money "training" them. He does speaking engagements and perpetuates it some more. Then Vets start to buy into it because they have no training - let me repeat no training in behavior/behavior modification/training other than personal experience of being a dog owner and what people tell them when they bring dogs in with a problem. So their data pool is skewed and confirmation bias sets in. Plus what vet is going to tell the owner who is paying those vet fees out of pocket that no your kinda sucking it as a puppy parent, get your act together and do what you need to do (btw I know lots of pediatricians and child therapists who would LOVE to say this to human parents but don't). Sorry I'm straying. But my point here is someone who is supposed to be expert in behavior modification perpetuating this myth without gathering good evidence is not doing his/her due diligence to Alfie's or you. Imagine if I go to my doctor and say I seem to have shortness of breath - he says oh allergies are bad this year so maybe antihistamine and inhaler to help without checking possible circulatory problems, lung disease, cancer, abdominal problems.... That's a doctor I would kick to the curb. 

You can choose to be upset at Donna and keep trying to make adjustments hoping Alfie becomes a new dog overnight. Or you and your family can choose to make a very very large commitment to make significant changes in your home to help Alfie learn how to be the dog he can be. Otherwise the biggest disservice is being done to Alfie. What is a fact regarding dog genetics is that they are better at reading human emotions than most humans are. That is how they survived and were chosen to be domesticated. My dogs know what I'm going to do before I'm even thinking about it. So your fear Alfie already knows. That's something the humans in the house have to work out irrespective of Alfie. That is something that needs to change even more than any behavior restrictions. If you can't then love Alfie enough to let him be with someone who can be that for him. 


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I have to agree that even throwing the term "cocker rage" in there is really not helping and it totally misleading. True rage will just come from nowhere for no reason and that is just not the case from anything you have said here, you just have a young dog who is pushing his luck and resource guarding which is a very common cocker problem and which will escalate if not correctly dealt with.

I think the reason people feel pretty strongly about this is when terms like that come into the equation it drastically affects that dogs survival chances and I know at least one pup from this forum was wrongly diagnosed with this last year and pts despite never showing a single incidence of unexplained rage  

Not sure who the behaviourist who is perpetuating the myth is though as not someone I have across I don't think


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

2ndhandgal said:


> I have to agree that even throwing the term "cocker rage" in there is really not helping and it totally misleading. True rage will just come from nowhere for no reason and that is just not the case from anything you have said here, you just have a young dog who is pushing his luck and resource guarding which is a very common cocker problem and which will escalate if not correctly dealt with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I won't name names but if you google cocker rage - you will see it as one of the top search results.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Lexi&Beemer said:


> I won't name names but if you google cocker rage - you will see it as one of the top search results.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmmmm - if it is who I think from that I don't know anyone reputable who would listen to a word thankfully


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Just in case any one is in any doubt, I'm not talking about 'rage' in cocker or any other breed.
But from my experience there is no doubt that temperament has a genetic factor.... obviously there is also a nurture effect too.
Pups are not just a blank canvas.
And all people are fallible.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Just to try and defuse things a little I don't think 'cocker rage' was actually mentioned, and it may well be that the doodle trust people have happened to see more reg/gold dogs with problems, and possibly there could be some genetic factors (especially due to in-breeding) but yes i'm sure we all agree that handling/training etc has a huge part to play. sadly due to the huge increase in popularity of Cockapoo's over the last couple of years we are now hearing of more with problems, I guess that would be the same with any breed or cross that is suddenly popular. With regards to in-breeding I certainly know there are area's where one or two poodle studs have been used more than is maybe good, if the pups are sold without paperwork showing the breeding lines they could well be bred from to a fairly close relation. I have asked people about the parents of their cockapoo's and been told things like 'oh I think the dad was an apricot poodle'. But back to Alfie I do think it is great that help has been sought, with hindsight maybe a behaviourist would have been a great idea when he was really quite young, but he is getting help now and i hope things continue to improve.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok here goes... 
It's been a while since I've commented on anyone's post but 
... Speaking from first hand experience with the guarding issue , I feel for Christine here. I was never frightened of Lola not ever, there are 3 adults in this house and at the time one puppy in charge.!! 
We tried everything 
Avoidance , bribery the lot!! It did not work!! 
Thanks to Karen we call in a pro who said on more than one occasion about the breed ! And I quote 
" cockers are renowned for being energetic and poodles can be aggressive , putting the two together never means you get the best traits from them both.. That's not a general rule of thumb " 
I agree about the colour not being relevant but I do feel so awful for Christine as this has been an ongoing situation , which, she is still persevering with and total respect to her for that!!! 
Lola is loads better now with her aggression , but every now and then it pops up out of the blue! Like our guy said 
You breed two huge character dogs .... It's not a " given " you'll get the best of both!!! 
However if anyone wants to suggest how the h*** I can stop her barking at daddy long legs I'm waiting for any advice!!! 
Well done Christine and Alfie ! Xx


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

Lola'sGrammy said:


> Ok here goes...
> It's been a while since I've commented on anyone's post but
> ... Speaking from first hand experience with the guarding issue , I feel for Christine here. I was never frightened of Lola not ever, there are 3 adults in this house and at the time one puppy in charge.!!
> We tried everything
> ...


Someone once suggested to me to teach bark and quite. This way if you get them to bark on command you can then get them to be quiet on demand. Tho we are still struggling with willow on this one.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Haha 
Tried that , thankyou anyway , not all daddy long legs 
Just the ones that get into the house 


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Simples - remove the daddy long legs 
Dot eats them if she can catch them - I'll loan her to you for the Daddy Long Legs season


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

She does too if she can get them!! Hahaha it's when they're out of reach to us all the barking starts 
Comical rather than annoying if I'm honest 


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Christine, you could pm me if you would like to consider using Ken that Zoe used to help her with Lola? Or chat with Zoe. I think it's worth a try, providing you are with in his travelling distance.


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## CharNC (Aug 19, 2015)

How is Alfie doing? I hope everything is going better.


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## beekeeper (May 3, 2015)

not all daddy long legs 
Just the ones that get into the house 




Well how dare they invade her territory!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Exactly !!!! Rude isn't it!!! 


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