# Causes for concentrated urine?



## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

After Ludo's neutering he started peeing on one of our rugs several times during the day. I took a urine sample into the vet, and they told me his urine was extremely concentrated and had crystals, something they rarely see in a dog his age (he is 7 months). They gave me prescription Science Diet food for urinary tract health, and that helped greatly. They told me to switch his food to a lower protein as too much protein can give them urinary tract problems. He was on a food that was 24% protein (which already seems low to me?) and I switched him to a 21% protein food (Natural Balance Limited Ingredient). He was fine for a week, not peeing on the rug and eating his food like a happy puppy. Now for the past two days he has started peeing on the rug again (dark yellow concentrated urine) and doesn't seem interested in his food.

The vet said it's the protein, but I'm not so sure. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Sound's like what Renee's Molly is going through. I'd go back to the vet as it doesn't seem to be resolving with change in diet. Hope he feels better soon.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Poor Ludo, poor you - what a worry.
Like Lexi & Beemer's mum your post immediately made me think of Molly and what she is going through with crystals in her bladder. I'm sure Renee will be on soon and be able to tell you more.
I'm afraid I don't have any experience, but I would certainly go back to the vets. 
My mother has had kidney problems and she has a special diet that excludes all sorts of things, so possibly not as straight forward as just too high protein.
Do let us know what happens next.
Was his neuter straightforward? They didn't have to go ferretting around for undescended testicle or anything did they? Just wondering whether his bladder or waterworks in general were brusied during the operation and that is what caused the onset of the problem....
Good luck in sorting Ludo out, poor pup.


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## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks for the well-wishes, it makes me feel better to talk about it!

His neutering was very straightforward, the vet tech remarked that it was one of the easiest ones she had been a part of. He recovered very quickly too, no issues with the stitches or anything.

I put some warm water on his food and he ate it all up. I also put more bowls of water around the house so that he has more access to water. I am wondering if he is dehydrated - last time the vet said there wasn't really anything _wrong_ with him, no infection or anything, just concentrated urine. He also got into the cat poop again last night for the first time in awhile, perhaps that affects things too?


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi! Just saw this post and it reminded me of what Molly is going through now. For her it started on December 24 I noticed that when I took her out she would pee more than once and there were small spots of blood in the snow. We took her to vets on December 27th and he put her on antibiotics for 2 weeks. She had no vomiting so he said it was likely a bladder infection since female dogs tend to get them more often. The next day we had to take in a urine sample. He said if any other symptoms showed up to call him.

A few days later she was vomiting and had 2 pee accidents in the house this was usually right after she ate so we took her in again. He kept her for a few hours and did blood work and an x-ray and he could see a crystal or stone in her bladder (because she had pee'd right before going in he couldn't tell which one because on a full bladder you get a better view). Anyhow he put her on a special diet called Royal Canine Urinary SO this food has a high water content and can help dissolve this crystal if not she will need surgery.

This Saturday she is going in for another X-ray with a full bladder so he can see if it's dissolving or not. There is no more blood in her urine now for a while and no house accidents and she can hold her pee for 3 and half hours ( I take her that often to avoid accidents!) overnight she is fine she goes out at 10 pm then bed and up at 6am. She also has to eat 2 teaspoons of plain non fat yogurt a day to avoid yeast infection Wow this feels long! So on Saturday we will know what our next step is either is dissolving or she has to have surgery.

Hope this helps but I was reading online and I guess if dogs eat only dry kibble which Molly was (Acana) and they don't drink enough water it can cause these stones to form.


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## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Thank you for your response, and I hope that everything with Molly works out okay! That can be scary, but I am sure the vet will get everything taken care of!

Ludo hasn't had any blood in his urine, nor has had any vomiting. He still acts like a rambunctious puppy, and pees with no signs of pain. He holds his urine from when we go to bed (around 11) until whenever we wake up - on the weekends around 9. No dribbles around the house, and the urine is always on the same rug, nowhere else in the house. I wouldn't be concerned and just think he's become used to peeing on that rug, but the pee is quite dark yellow and looks/smells concentrated.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

rellek said:


> Thank you for your response, and I hope that everything with Molly works out okay! That can be scary, but I am sure the vet will get everything taken care of!
> 
> Ludo hasn't had any blood in his urine, nor has had any vomiting. He still acts like a rambunctious puppy, and pees with no signs of pain. He holds his urine from when we go to bed (around 11) until whenever we wake up - on the weekends around 9. No dribbles around the house, and the urine is always on the same rug, nowhere else in the house. I wouldn't be concerned and just think he's become used to peeing on that rug, but the pee is quite dark yellow and looks/smells concentrated.


So I noticed Beemer's urine smells more concentrated since he got older. He also holds it much longer than before. And very smelly if he is more active and doesn't stop to drink. Maybe Ludo would like to chew ice cubes to supplement his normal water drinking.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

To get Molly to drink more I put a bit of low sodium chicken broth in her water now. It seems to be working


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## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Funny you say ice cubes, because those are his favorite treat! As soon as the freezer opens he is right there waiting for one.

I will try to get him more liquids and see if that helps alleviate the symptoms. Thank you all!!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I would be tempted to try a wet food. I don't think it's protein. Dogs are made to process protein, they are not really made to process cereals and dry food. Most dogs are fine but some are not. You can still supplement with chews and bones for dental health but I think a wet food may well stop this problem.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

wellerfeller said:


> I would be tempted to try a wet food. I don't think it's protein. Dogs are made to process protein, they are not really made to process cereals and dry food. Most dogs are fine but some are not. You can still supplement with chews and bones for dental health but I think a wet food may well stop this problem.


The wet food Molly is on now is a special food but I might try wet once all this is over. I always thought wet food was bad though and that dry was the way to go. All the food stuff can be very confusing for sure! Since being on the special wet food the vet gave us she isn't drinking that much but the vet said that it has a high water content.


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

All good advice, I would also remove the rug so he can't pee on it anymore, he may see this as a toilet area, as he will still be able to smell pee on it no matter how much you scrub!
I really hope he is ok - maybe try some of the food Molly is on if it's available, the royal canine urinary SO one??


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## rellek (Jun 12, 2013)

Yes I might try that food. He seemed to be cured when he was on the Science Diet prescription canned food. 

I contacted the breeder that I got Ludo from, and she said that she hasn't seen this happen in any of her dogs, but she did recommend Doc Roy's Potassium Citrate plus Cranberry powder. Have any of you used a powder supplement for urinary tract health?


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

Sorry for the long post, but my story is long and complicated:
I have a similar experience with my dog. I posted on here before about Stela’s problems, but did not get any replies. 
So, Stela has had issues with urinating accidents since forever…I think there was never a period longer than a month without an accident in the house. 
About ten months ago she was diagnosed with urinary crystals and concentrated and high p.H urine, but she NEVER had an UTI or bladder crystals or stones. She was put on Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Urinary SO Dry Dog Food . She has been on that food ever since, but the accidents never actually stopped, although her urine is crystal free.( I read somewhere that 40% of healthy dogs have the urinary crystals-and no symptoms) In the meantime we saw a different vet and he put her on Prozac (believe it or not!?!?) because he said she is a nervous dog and the accidents were a behavioral issue. She was on it for about six weeks; her personality totally changed and I regretted even trying it. She is back to her normal self, but she still has accidents in the house and I, just last couple of weeks, was beside myself and at the end of my patience…..
So, just a couple a days ago, I decided to take her off of Diet Urinary SO Dry Dog Food, because it is obviously not doing anything for the accidents and nutritiously it’s a bad food. (Brewers rice, corn, chicken fat, chicken meal, natural flavors, dried egg product, corn gluten meal, salt, powdered cellulose, potassium chloride, fish oil, calcium carbonate, potassium phosphate, calcium sulfate, taurine, choline…………….) 
So, next Saturday we are scheduled to see the third vet and hopefully we’ll get some answers. 
I am questioning everything-from Stela’s beginnings (she was 10 weeks when she was adopted) to our training methods….


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Poor Stela and poor you! Sorry about the missed post, I don't recall seeing it? 

Hats off to you for trying everything with her and for not giving up on her. When I had kidney stones they told me people who eat a lot of protein can get them. Like weightlifters who eat powdered protein to bulk up. The other culprit with people is sugar. If her food has corn it automatically has sugar. I wonder if a "raw" diet might help? 

How is she aside from the peeing? Is she a happy well adjusted girl? If so I'd have her wear the panties they make for when they are in season over a doggy diaper when she is inside. It will decrease your stress and maybe hers?


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

fairlie said:


> Poor Stela and poor you! Sorry about the missed post, I don't recall seeing it?
> 
> Hats off to you for trying everything with her and for not giving up on her. When I had kidney stones they told me people who eat a lot of protein can get them. Like weightlifters who eat powdered protein to bulk up. The other culprit with people is sugar. If her food has corn it automatically has sugar. I wonder if a "raw" diet might help?
> 
> How is she aside from the peeing? Is she a happy well adjusted girl? If so I'd have her wear the panties they make for when they are in season over a doggy diaper when she is inside. It will decrease your stress and maybe hers?


Thank you for your reply. The food that has corn is the prescribed diet for the urinary stones....but as I said she is on a new food since Monday (EVO -grain free food) since I figured that the prescription diet did not do anything for her.; she only gained weight from it  Sure, her urine has no crystals now but she still pees in the house from time to time!? That's why I am inclined to think it's a behavioural issue. 
I know, one mistake we did was having a door to our backyard always open (we live in LA; most of the time it's warm enough to have the door open) , so she goes out as she pleases , but she also has two to three walks a day... 
MAybe she never understood what is inside and what outside , where it is ok to pee and where not!?!? 
Otherwise she is a great dog; she has a few little issues but we love her so much and she is such a HUGE part of our family.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

My sister has an adult rescued bassett that still pees in the house. She just mops it up cheerfully. I would not be able to tolerate it myself, unless of course it was a very old incontinent dog or a medical issue.

I think a trainer would tell you to start from the beginning again. Keep her with you on a leash, out often to pee, following a very good routine. Huge fuss and treats when she pees outside and a disapointed growly voice as you mop up accidents. I personally would also go the diaper route when you can't watch her, maybe she would not pee with it on?

Good luck!


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Stela12 said:


> Thank you for your reply. The food that has corn is the prescribed diet for the urinary stones....but as I said she is on a new food since Monday (EVO -grain free food) since I figured that the prescription diet did not do anything for her.; she only gained weight from it  Sure, her urine has no crystals now but she still pees in the house from time to time!? That's why I am inclined to think it's a behavioural issue.
> I know, one mistake we did was having a door to our backyard always open (we live in LA; most of the time it's warm enough to have the door open) , so she goes out as she pleases , but she also has two to three walks a day...
> MAybe she never understood what is inside and what outside , where it is ok to pee and where not!?!?
> Otherwise she is a great dog; she has a few little issues but we love her so much and she is such a HUGE part of our family.


Poor Stela and poor you. I can't imagine having it go on for so long and it not being resolved. I wonder how old she is and if you ever felt like she was getting it the housebreaking. I got my two at 10 weeks and I was crazy about taking them out and just watching for any little sign of them needing to per for 5 days of the week and then for two days while I worked my dad watched them and essentially let them pee all over the place while he did other things around the house. I'm still pretty vigilant about keeping on eye on them - as they even had a poo accident (only their third one in my house) the other day because I wasn't paying attention. If it is about training, going back to basics probably will work if you do it for a couple of weeks. Also I noticed they loved to pee on a rug so I got rid of that. But they would also keep going near the same spots on the tile too. If you have tile or wood, the urine will seep underneath too so you have to douse the tile with as much enzyme stuff if not more as the amount she pees so it can get under the tile and leave it on for at least 10 minutes. I literally have a huge container with a battery operated spray and will hose down the entire floor and take everyone outside for 15-20 minutes before I wipe with a towel. 

I don't know if any of that helps. I know I had to try lots of different things and though we are not 100% there I try to remember how it is so much better.


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

I think I’ll try the diaper; at least for during the night, because the majority of accidents happen during the night. One interesting fact is that we work; the kids go to school, so she stays home alone for about 5-6 h and she NEVER has accidents when we are not there. They always happen with us in the house. 

Yes, we use Nature’s Miracle like there is no tomorrow-I think I should buy their stock!!! 

And when she does pee in the house she, in 80% of the cases, starts to scratch/dig the carpet or whatever surface she chose to pee on and then she pees. Any idea what that means??? 

Thank you guys ...it feels good to talk about this


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Stela12 said:


> I think I’ll try the diaper; at least for during the night, because the majority of accidents happen during the night. One interesting fact is that we work; the kids go to school, so she stays home alone for about 5-6 h and she NEVER has accidents when we are not there. They always happen with us in the house.
> 
> Yes, we use Nature’s Miracle like there is no tomorrow-I think I should buy their stock!!!
> 
> ...


Huh - strangely like marking.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Do you crate? Maybe confine her space at night so that she doesn't have a place to pee AND sleep.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Stela12 said:


> Sorry for the long post, but my story is long and complicated:
> I have a similar experience with my dog. I posted on here before about Stela’s problems, but did not get any replies.
> So, Stela has had issues with urinating accidents since forever…I think there was never a period longer than a month without an accident in the house.
> About ten months ago she was diagnosed with urinary crystals and concentrated and high p.H urine, but she NEVER had an UTI or bladder crystals or stones. She was put on Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Urinary SO Dry Dog Food . She has been on that food ever since, but the accidents never actually stopped, although her urine is crystal free.( I read somewhere that 40% of healthy dogs have the urinary crystals-and no symptoms) In the meantime we saw a different vet and he put her on Prozac (believe it or not!?!?) because he said she is a nervous dog and the accidents were a behavioral issue. She was on it for about six weeks; her personality totally changed and I regretted even trying it. She is back to her normal self, but she still has accidents in the house and I, just last couple of weeks, was beside myself and at the end of my patience…..
> ...


Dogs cannot be on this food for long periods Molly is only on it for a week to see if it dissolves the crystal or stone in her bladder if not she will need surgery. It's an incomplete food but there is something in it that helps dissolve a crystal/stone so worth a try before going for the surgery option. Molly hasn't had accidents in the house since she was 4 months and a half. The 2 she had were do to a bladder infection her urinalysis confirmed that. Her blood tests came back normal except her creatinine was a bit high. This is caused by either dehydration or something blocking the flow of urine. It wasn't high enough to be of concern he said.

On Saturday she comes off that canned food so now I am unsure what to feed her she was on Acana dry kibble before all this so not sure if I should put her on a grain free canned diet of keep her on this.

Sorry Stella is having so many problems I cannot believe the vet would put her on Prozac that is ridiculous! I am sure if you consulted an animal behaviorist that you probably could figure out why she is having so many accidents in the house? Maybe she was spayed too young and has a week bladder? How old is she?


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

My vet told me that dogs can stay on this food Royal Canine SO for years....but it did not sound right to me. 
I hope Molly's crystals will be gone and that will be the end of that. Keeping my fingers crossed for her 
Stela is 2 years 2 months and 2 days old -just saw that on my pita-pata 

I can't wait to see the new vet.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Stela12 said:


> My vet told me that dogs can stay on this food Royal Canine SO for years....but it did not sound right to me.
> I hope Molly's crystals will be gone and that will be the end of that. Keeping my fingers crossed for her
> Stela is 2 years 2 months and 2 days old -just saw that on my pita-pata
> 
> I can't wait to see the new vet.


Oh I hadn't noticed your pita pata sory If you google that food the longest they can stay on it is 60 days. I wouldn't keep her on it that long I feel like she is missing some nutrition. She is playful and has energy but only poo's 1 or 2 times a day now before she went 3 times sometimes 4. When she was on the Acana which is a good quality food she ate about 3/4 of a cup a day on this she eats 1 can day. I don't want her to have surgery but if it will fix this problem we will do it.

My breeder said that none of her dogs had this problem before so?? Hope you figure out what is wrong with Stela they are such babies it's hard to see them be unwell!


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

dio.ren said:


> Oh I hadn't noticed your pita pata sory If you google that food the longest they can stay on it is 60 days. I wouldn't keep her on it that long I feel like she is missing some nutrition. She is playful and has energy but only poo's 1 or 2 times a day now before she went 3 times sometimes 4. When she was on the Acana which is a good quality food she ate about 3/4 of a cup a day on this she eats 1 can day. I don't want her to have surgery but if it will fix this problem we will do it.
> 
> My breeder said that none of her dogs had this problem before so?? Hope you figure out what is wrong with Stela they are such babies it's hard to see them be unwell!


Stela was on dry Urinary SO; but I also make home cooked food for her.
Please let us know about Molly. Will you know right away on Sat.?


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

dio.ren said:


> The wet food Molly is on now is a special food but I might try wet once all this is over. I always thought wet food was bad though and that dry was the way to go. All the food stuff can be very confusing for sure! Since being on the special wet food the vet gave us she isn't drinking that much but the vet said that it has a high water content.


You can get excellent quality wet food these days. Many good dry food producers make a wet equivalent. You just might need to search for it.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

wellerfeller said:


> You can get excellent quality wet food these days. Many good dry food producers make a wet equivalent. You just might need to search for it.


Yes, we get cans of Taste of the Wild and mix in a little with Rufus' kibble from them.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

We have that one here and Blue Buffalo also. The Blue Buffalo gets 5 stars on http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ So maybe will try that


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for that website Renee! It will help me find a raw food supplier for Rufus. I think we'll try to make our own but keep some frozen for back up.


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## Stela12 (Mar 1, 2012)

rellek said:


> After Ludo's neutering he started peeing on one of our rugs several times during the day. I took a urine sample into the vet, and they told me his urine was extremely concentrated and had crystals, something they rarely see in a dog his age (he is 7 months). They gave me prescription Science Diet food for urinary tract health, and that helped greatly. They told me to switch his food to a lower protein as too much protein can give them urinary tract problems. He was on a food that was 24% protein (which already seems low to me?) and I switched him to a 21% protein food (Natural Balance Limited Ingredient). He was fine for a week, not peeing on the rug and eating his food like a happy puppy. Now for the past two days he has started peeing on the rug again (dark yellow concentrated urine) and doesn't seem interested in his food.
> 
> The vet said it's the protein, but I'm not so sure. Has anyone else experienced this?


Hi, I went back and read some of my earlier posts and noticed that Stela started with the accidents after her spay. 
Is it possible that there is some residual smell on that rug that just attracts him there every time? Could you maybe remove that rug at least for a while and see if the accidents stop?


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

I found a way to make Molly drink more water. I put a few blueberries in her water bowl and she drinks while she is trying to get them At first she was barking at her bowl then then I took out one of the blueberries and gave it to her and that made her drink to try and catch the others


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

This sounds like a really good trick, I wonder if other tidbits would work too?


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