# Buyer beware!!!



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm writing this post to warn anyone thinking of buying a pup to be very careful!

I replied to an ad in pets4home by a breeder in Carlisle, Cumbria selling cockapoo pups, her advert stated the mum was PRA & FN clear. I text her and asked if either of the arents were DNA PRA tested and she replied yes.

I drove the 120 miles yesterday to see the pups that as it turns out were only 4days old, I asked if I could see the certificate for the test and she said she didn't have it but would get me a copy (big mistake).

She told me it was £100 deposit to hold the pup that would be ready in Oct, I told her my husband and I would chat about it on the way home and call her later. We decided she was the right pup for us and bank transferred the £100 deposit.

Messing about on the computer later last night being really excited about my new pup I decided to look at the parents health checks on the KC health checker. It says there was no health check for the mother so I txt the breeder to ask why it wasn't on the register and she told me because she couldn't register the pups there was no point, I asked then could she email me a copy of certificate for the DNA PRA and apologised if I seemed a bit crazy I had spoke to a breeder before that assured me the parents were DNA tested for PRA but they weren't tested by DNA.

It was at this point she said hers weren't tested by DNA either (even though I had asked previously) after a couple of txts back and forth I asked if it was ok to phone her. She agreed on the phone to refund my deposit and then 10 min later text me to say that the deposit was non refundable as she hadn't advertised them as DNA PRA tested (even though when I asked her she said yes). I advised her of this and that had she replied no to my txt I would not have came to see the pups never mind leave a deposit!!

She never refunded my money and didn't answer my calls so I txt her this evening and asked if she could call me when she was free.

This was my reply:

I'm on my way to work, I did tell you that mum was health tested because she is.
I have not lied or misguided you regarding the sale of my puppies, on my advert it clearly states the facts, also the fact that deposits are non refundable.
I'm sure you understand, I will not tolerate time wasters and excuses, I personally think you simply changed your mind in which case you should not be wasting peoples time.
Please do not further pursue me, as I have little enough time at present, than pander to you and your neurotic ways.
I hope you find yourself what your looking for.

 I am absolutely gutted!!!


----------



## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh that's terrible! Im so angry at that lady without even knowing her!

You are most certainly not neurotic, thank you for putting the warning out there! It's people like her who give people ammunition to criticize cockapoo breeding. I hope (although unfortunately doubt) that others will refuse to buy her puppies because of her lack of testing. Really gutting to lose your deposit, but you did the right thing!

Good luck on your search for the perfect puppy (and breeder!!)

X


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Oh dear. There are a lot of unscrupulous people out there and breeding puppies without DNA testing is unconscionable in my eyes. I guess you have to put it down to experience.mexpensive as it is. So sorry that you have been caught out this way. I would check out the breeders used on this site and then go from there. Thank you for the heads up. You are not neurotic and have every right to insist that the puppy you buy is and will continue to be healthy.


----------



## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

Just went for a snoop on pets4homes and think I've found the advert you responded to. Very clearly states that the mum is PRA clear! There is an option to report the advert - not sure if anything would come from it, but it could be worth a try xx


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

I actually asked her if she'd be willing to get her tested (bearing in mind she has my £100) and she said no her dog is healthy!! Yes your dog might be but the pups might not!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

There are some unscrupulous people out there...it's not like you changed your mind at 8 weeks. Where has she advertised its a shame you can't add a note x


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

do you belong to FB.if so write every thing in there and spread it around ,make sure every one get to read it and keep sending out warnings about every 4 or 5 days .till she gets the message that your going to keep it up till you get your money back .and if you never get it back .at least you did enough damage to her reputation to really hurt her from selling them..ok Facebook has a way of making people think,,, it can really hurt you or make you ok


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Lottie I think you are looking at the right ad, i think you'll agree it sounded very impressive stating the KC names and pictures of the mum & dad and even the grandfather! I did my research and made sure they were tested but just goes to show you shouldn't take people at face value. I should have insisted on seeing the paperwork first.

You live & learn


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Karen that's what I said to my husband, I could understand if 3 weeks down the line I asked her for confirmation (even though she still lied) but it was the same night that I saw the pup and left the deposit. It's not like she then couldn't sell it, they're 4 days old.

It was an ad in pets4homes


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

sugerlump said:


> do you belong to FB.if so write every thing in there and spread it around ,make sure every one get to read it and keep sending out warnings about every 4 or 5 days .till she gets the message that your going to keep it up till you get your money back .and if you never get it back .at least you did enough damage to her reputation to really hurt her from selling them..ok Facebook has a way of making people think,,, it can really hurt you or make you ok


Sugarlump I am on FB and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

I'm also going to find out where I stand with regards claiming through a small claims court, I don't mind losing the £100 but I'll be damned if I let her gain it.


----------



## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

3minicoopers said:


> Sugarlump I am on FB and that's exactly what I'm going to do.
> 
> I'm also going to find out where I stand with regards claiming through a small claims court, I don't mind losing the £100 but I'll be damned if I let her gain it.


Print-screen the advert stating they are tested, incase the page disappears


----------



## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Never pay ANY money until you see and validate the health checks. A good breeder will have all the copies ready for you. 

You should name and shame this Seller on here so other people can steer clear. I walked away from someone who tried to do this to me when I was looking for Poo no.2 . She had the cheek to claim that I was trying to scam her for a copy of the certificate (which lets face it didnt actually exist) so I could use it?? Some weird and strange but mostly GREEDY people out there .


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

good girl. i feel the same way i will give you money if you need it but don't try to scam me out of it


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Facebook is good, but it also needs to be reported to an "official group" like BBB (Better Business Bureau) or that type of group in England or a Breeder's group. Officially there needs to be a record of what she did.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

right Kim.there should be some place in UK to report bad business people
like here we have BBB. I'm sure you have some thing there also ok


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks for the tip about print screening the ad, I had did that with the text message where I asked if they were DNA PRA tested and she replied "yep" I wouldn't have thought about that &#55357;&#56842;


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

I've attached the ad and the screenshot of the txt I sent asking if either dog had certificates for the DNA PRA test.


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Screen shot of txt


----------



## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Definitely a case for false advertising.


----------



## Sue T (Aug 1, 2012)

Oh, after reading the ad, I am seething for you. This seller's practise need highlighting to a higher level. How awful for you.


----------



## Muttley Brody (Feb 14, 2012)

That's dreadful. Could you contact someone such as Trading Standards who could perhaps point you in the right direction in order to take this further - as it is false advertising.


----------



## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

So very sad to read about your experience and things like this give breeders a bad name  not all breeders are like this and some actually care about their puppies, their breeding and their new owners  

If health testing is carried out a breeder will be proud to show the certificate and explain them when viewing your puppy.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

I'm sure you can comment on an advert on pets4homes


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Have you complained ??? I've just looked and I can't the ad ?? Has it been removed. I'm going to look for her on erupz x


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Muttley Brody said:


> That's dreadful. Could you contact someone such as Trading Standards who could perhaps point you in the right direction in order to take this further - as it is false advertising.


I don't know if I can because she hasn't said in the ad they are DNA PRA tested only when I txt to ask her that she said yes.


----------



## greengrapes (Dec 21, 2011)

I googled the phone numbers 01697747784 and 07501423073 to find 
http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/399779-exciting-litter-of-fabulous-cockapoos-carlisle.html 

The advert contains the sentence "Tally (mum) is a beautiful 3 year old 'Show' Cockerspaniel, registered with the Kennel Club, and pra & Fn Clear."

There's a link on the advert to email the seller or report the advert


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

JoJo said:


> So very sad to read about your experience and things like this give breeders a bad name  not all breeders are like this and some actually care about their puppies, their breeding and their new owners
> 
> If health tested is cared out a breeder will be proud to show the certificate and explain them when viewing your puppy.


Jojo I do know there is honest breeders out there but unfortunately for everyone of them there's two unscrupulous ones. I'm mad at myself because the same day we saw another litter and the breeder was lovely, I explained to her we had another litter to look at and would let her know later on that day. The breeder in Yorkshire had all the paperwork for the dogs and you could tell she was genuinely interested in their welfare.

The only reason we chose the breeder in Carlisle over her is because we go on holiday and the date the dog would be ready suited that better. The breeder in Yorkshire was willing to hold onto the pup for an extra month at no extra cost so that the pup wasn't disrupted with us going on holiday (our older kids would have been home but not all the time as they have uni etc).

The breeder from Carlisle was charging us an extra £50 for an extra week!

Hindsights a great thing though!!!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Have you reported the ad to pets4 homes ???


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Have you complained ??? I've just looked and I can't the ad ?? Has it been removed. I'm going to look for her on erupz x


I had a look but can't add a comment. Thought about reporting the ad but what she's saying is that she hasn't lied in her ad because her dog is PRA clear but my issue is that I txt her and asked if it was by DNA and she said yes.

The ad's still there if you go to the website and search Cockapoo and town Carlisle you have to change the distance to 50 miles or so.


----------



## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Had she had her dog bva tested? is that why she was able to put what she did on the ad? in which case as you say she did not actually lie on the ad. It is a worry to me just how many cockapoo puppies are being bred now, when I looked at that site there were 25 pages of pups being advertised! out of interest I searched a few other breeds and there were none with a higher number, 1 or 2 the same but most much lower, I bet not all of those breeders are doing the DNA tests - although a lot are putting tested on the first line. I wonder how many buyers would actually ask to see the certificate, I bet a lot would just take the breeders word for it.
Have you missed out on the yorkshire litter now?


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

I found it now !! So she's saying by parentage....I wonder how she proves that then


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

That's it exactly she never lied in her ad although she blatantly did when I asked her by txt if they had DNA PRA certificates (you can't misinterpret that).


----------



## Jill L (Nov 2, 2012)

Your copy of the text looks like the clincher. You've quite clearly asked if the parents are DNA tested and she's said yes. Perhaps just the threat of the small claims court would do the trick? I'd definitely have a chat with her local Trading Standards office, even if all it achieves is putting her on their radar for the future. Good luck and I hope you soon find a beautiful puppy from one of the genuine breeders out there.


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

*Update from breeder*

Hi Julie, 
I strongly suggest you print out my advert and take it to citizens advice ,their advice is free and will be able to advise you on your situation.
As you are aware , I work nights and I'm trying to sleep.
I also suggest that you put any other contact in writing , again a legal advisor suggested I recommend this to you .
I have never mis lead you regarding the sale of my pups, and all information on my advert is correct.
I have asked other breeders advice on deposits, and that's why we take deposits to secure homes, also non refundable if you change your mind, again it does state this in my ad , I'm sorry that you feel this way.
I do hope you manage to find the right breeder for your needs.
Kind regards
Gayle

My reply

Gayle I have already did this and also took along a print out of the text message where I asked you if either of the parents had DNA PRA certificates and you said yes. It was in this premise that I travelled 120 miles to view the pups. You seem to be forgetting this point and keep referring me back to your advert. I agree your advert states it's a non refundable deposit but I didn't change my mind about the pup,I was told i was buying a pup that's parents had PRA DNA certificates. And it turns out they don't have, I even asked if you would be willing to get that done and you refused.
I also have asked advice on this from friends that are breeders.
On the advice I received if I do not receive my refund today then I will be sending a letter to your home address by recorded delivery tomorrow.

One last note, if the pup you were selling did have the certificates I asked you about I would have been more than happy with it. I haven't just simply changed my mind. I have attached a copy of the text I originally sent you.

Regards
Julie


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Just looked and the advert has been removed which makes me think she's sold them all


----------



## Ralph2013 (Aug 23, 2013)

wilfiboy said:


> I found it now !! So she's saying by parentage....I wonder how she proves that then


My young man is clear by parentage. My understanding is due to problems being genetic, there has to be a carrier of the defective gene. Therefore if the history is held ie in Ralphs case he has his papers for 5 generations on both sides and checks are held for all great grandparents. Therefore only healthy dogs have been bred from. Therefore the gene is not present. 
My understanding anyway  If you don't have the full history of course, the gene could be present

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Caira (May 27, 2013)

Disgraceful woman! she is a seller who lied about quality of goods she is advertising and took down payment based on that lie, that is illegal. She might be forgetting that dogs are still classed as goods in this country, therefore some selling standards still apply. If she doesn't refund you, tell her you have copies of all the conversation and will be forwarding it to a solicitor and also you will contact the police to report her or something like that.. use some fancy legal wording and let see what happens. 

Good luck and please keep us updated


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Caira said:


> Disgraceful woman! she is a seller who lied about quality of goods she is advertising and took down payment based on that lie, that is illegal. She might be forgetting that dogs are still classed as goods in this country, therefore some selling standards still apply. If she doesn't refund you, tell her you have copies of all the conversation and will be forwarding it to a solicitor and also you will contact the police to report her or something like that.. use some fancy legal wording and let see what happens.
> 
> Good luck and please keep us updated



Thanks Petra, she seems to be forgetting the fact I asked her prior to arranging to see the pups about the DNA PRA and keeps referring me back to her advert.

It annoys me even more as she has now removed her ad which makes me think she has sold all 6 pups to the sum of £3900 and still she refuses to pay me back my deposit she stole from me!!


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Ralph2013 said:


> My young man is clear by parentage. My understanding is due to problems being genetic, there has to be a carrier of the defective gene. Therefore if the history is held ie in Ralphs case he has his papers for 5 generations on both sides and checks are held for all great grandparents. Therefore only healthy dogs have been bred from. Therefore the gene is not present.
> My understanding anyway  If you don't have the full history of course, the gene could be present
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes I am aware of that I just can't imagine that this woman would have any proof when suddenly the dog wasn't KC registered and suddenly there was no DNA PRA certification either, that was originally claimed, I fear that 3minicoopers rightly asked too many questions and dared to ask for proof, she was supposed to take the breeder at face value


----------



## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

wilfiboy said:


> Yes I am aware of that I just can't imagine that this woman would have any proof when suddenly the dog wasn't KC registered and suddenly there was no DNA PRA certification either, that was originally claimed, I fear that 3minicoopers rightly asked too many questions and dared to ask for proof, she was supposed to take the breeder at face value


That's exactly right! Here here!


----------



## Ralph2013 (Aug 23, 2013)

Ooopps I thought there was a registration, just no PRA test showing.
Serves me right for only reading the current page  
Appologies 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## AliAlfie (Jul 29, 2013)

Having read through this thread I was disgusted at this woman and her lies as well as her attitude...certainly in it for the money, grrrrrr, makes my blood boil! Interestingly, she has ALTERED her ad on Pets4homes, it is still there, but no longer mentions any testing, certificates, etc. so I think you HAVE at least managed to get her to consider a more truthful advert. Here's the link to the amended ad: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/399779-exciting-litter-of-fabulous-cockapoos-carlisle.html 

Oh yes, I really hope you get your deposit back and find the right pup from one of the reputable breeders out there.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Go to citizens advice or ring trading standards.... You entered into an agreement, where you have proof of the terms of that agreement and she's breeched it and in doing so should get a refund x


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Ralph2013 said:


> Ooopps I thought there was a registration, just no PRA test showing.
> Serves me right for only reading the current page
> Appologies
> 
> ...



Sorry if i've caused confusion somewhere, the pups mum is KC registered but showing no health checks.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

I obviously read that bit wrong....I thought you couldn't even find her on the register x


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

AliAlfie said:


> Having read through this thread I was disgusted at this woman and her lies as well as her attitude...certainly in it for the money, grrrrrr, makes my blood boil! Interestingly, she has ALTERED her ad on Pets4homes, it is still there, but no longer mentions any testing, certificates, etc. so I think you HAVE at least managed to get her to consider a more truthful advert. Here's the link to the amended ad: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/399779-exciting-litter-of-fabulous-cockapoos-carlisle.html
> 
> Oh yes, I really hope you get your deposit back and find the right pup from one of the reputable breeders out there.


Thanks for that Ali, I'm interested to know how you managed to find the ad, when I search it doesn't come up.

It makes me think the mum hasn't even been PRA or FN tested at all never mind by DNA!!


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Go to citizens advice or ring trading standards.... You entered into an agreement, where you have proof of the terms of that agreement and she's breeched it and in doing so should get a refund x


I did that today and was advised to send her a letter by recorded delivery first giving her the opportunity to pay. I am going to do this tomorrow. x


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> I obviously read that bit wrong....I thought you couldn't even find her on the register x


Sorry yeah she was registered just no health checks.


----------



## 3minicoopers (Jul 24, 2011)

Grove said:


> Print-screen the advert stating they are tested, incase the page disappears


Thank you Grove for suggesting to take a screenshot of the ad as I hadn't thought of that and now the ads been amended, omitting the health checks.


----------



## RedVelvet (Jul 30, 2013)

I notice the contact details have now been removed too.


----------



## Nellies mum (May 12, 2013)

AliAlfie said:


> Here's the link to the amended ad: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/399779-exciting-litter-of-fabulous-cockapoos-carlisle.html


The new ad is no longer live/open so i'm guessing all puppies have been sold! I am tempted to text her later on to see if there are any puppies left and ask about pra testing!! At the end of the day YOU are 100% in the right to ask about health/eye testing and certificates. All you want is a beautiful healthy puppy from a good breeder. She has misled you so of course you should have your deposit back. I really do hope this experience hasn't put you off looking for another puppy? :hug:


----------

