# Born in a barn!!



## iwantone (May 9, 2011)

Hi

I asked a local dog trainer about a place where we are looking at getting a cockapoo from. She says she doesn't know anything about the place but she has seen dogs that are born in barns that never managed to become toilet trained. Has anyone experienced this? She put the frightners on me and said she knows of loads of dogs (all different breeds) that were born in barns and have had to be put to sleep and they were all under the age of 1

The puppy we are looking at is in a large clean kennel within the barn type building and gets plenty of socialisation etc..

Do many breeders start the toilet training process (especially where the pups aren't raised in the home). Surely it's down to the breed or individual dog as to how quickly they will pick this up. As cockapoos are supposed to be intelligent I would hope this wouldn't apply.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Ive never heard of this (I dont mean its not true) but where i got Wilf from said he would have started paper training but in effect I think it was just that paper was down, not that he was encouraged to go there specifically. I would suggest that you just start training as soon as you are home and he will soon pick it up ... after all even if somewhere had started any sort of training, after the massive change of moving in with you, your set up is going to be different so really it would be like starting from scratch for any new pup. I know one person who got a cockapoo from a place that sounds very similar and they never had any trouble and Ive bumped into numerous more from the same breeder all fine x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Ummm sounds a wee bit over the top (pardon the pun). It would be hard to toilet train a young dog that has lived outdoors for a while and isn't accustomed to being in a house and learning the rules (same applies to dogs who are used to being in a kennel) but don't see why it would be a problem with a dog collected around 8-10 weeks. The mum will have already taught them not to mess their sleeping area etc if they are well kept.

It would be a different story if they had been kept in squalid, cramped, dirty surroundings. If they have been well raised with good general husbandry the puppies should be fine. You have to go by what you've seen yourself rather than the opinions of others who haven't seen the setup and met the breeder.


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

i have never ever hered of a dog being put down because is couldnt be toilet traind, and any vet that would put a dogs down for that reason should be struck off. 

at 8 weeks (the standered age for pups leaving the breeder) the pups are too young to propparly understand where to pee, its a bit like babys they go when they need to go, most pups start to learn to pee away from their bedding on paper etc that is put down for them, or some breeders let the pups out in a garden to toilet. its up to the owner to toilet train the pup. Gypsy and Echo were actualy quite easy to toilet train, but Inca and Delta were a nightmair. 

their is a thread on keeping a log of when you dog toilets to you can almost time when they will need out, 

other than that: after a sleep, feed, drink, play, etc always take them out 


try using a work as a toilet comand, we use pee pee, others use toilt time, be clean, wiz, widdle, stinky etc my lot will more or less pee on comand.


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## iwantone (May 9, 2011)

thanks everyone, the trainer I asked suggested rehoming a dog. She mentioned a few that she thought were available and to try local rescue home. Maybe she was trying to steer me in that direction. I have looked into rehoming, but having a 6 year old a lot of places don't like to give you a dog. You don't how they have been raised and mostly - I've never seen a cockapoo needing a home in the local rescue centres.


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

you tend to find them on the internet, pets for homes epupz etc, that where iv seen them for rehoming. most of the time people take them on not understandung the grooming, cost training etc


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

If all that is stopping you is what the trainer said and that you're happy with everything else then I'd go for it. I have seen possibly 3 cockapoo s needing re-homing but its rare you'll be waiting a while. I know what it feels like when you do loads of research and then you're scared of making a mistake you almost know too much, Id go for it the toiletting wont be a problem x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

iwantone said:


> Hi
> 
> I asked a local dog trainer about a place where we are looking at getting a cockapoo from. She says she doesn't know anything about the place but she has seen dogs that are born in barns that never managed to become toilet trained. Has anyone experienced this? She put the frightners on me and said she knows of loads of dogs (all different breeds) that were born in barns and have had to be put to sleep and they were all under the age of 1
> 
> ...



I'm sensing a lot of anxiety surrounding the choice of your puppy so feel compelled to indulge in offering my opinion, for what it's worth. From this and your other thread it appears to me that you have asked all the pertinent questions about the health and well being of the puppies you went to see. All on here have offered their opinions as it seems your local trainer has too. As always with us mere mortals we are all governed by our own lifes experiences. If we have a bad experience then that sets itself as a trigger in our sub-conscious brain so as to avoid that bad situation if it reoccurs. This is an effective defence mechanism in our primeval brain - touch fire, get burned, don't touch fire again. It's normal human behaviour, hence when you ask other opinions you must take that human tendency into account.....if the trainer has indeed had that experience then she will want to prevent a repeat for herself and anyone else. Personally if a dog has been put down by the age of one year old then I would suspect far more issues than just not being house trainable.

From a dogs point of view it doesn't catagorize the home in which it is born. Every dog is born in a 'den'! That den may be in a barn, a house, a kennel, a stable, a flat, under a bush, a cardboard box etc etc etc. Where ever the den is, the bitch will keep that area clean when the puppies go to the toilet. As the puppies grow they will all learn to use a toilet area away from the den and their mother will show them the way, they learn from her but that process only starts to happen from about 6-8 weeks old and continues....their learning then leads onto social behaviour, hunting skills, play fighting and all the necessary life skills to survive. The IMPORTANT bit is that the puppies must see humans as part of their 'pack' if they are to transfer the learning onto the 'human mummy' after they leave their real mummy. That is what socializing is for and that IS the breeders job. You as the new mummy then have to put the time, patience, and consistency in your toilet training carefully and calmly until your puppy understands the new pack rules, which it will given time and slack for making the odd mistake.

In short if a puppy is healthy, happy, playful and cheeky with strangers, and has kind natured parents when you see it at eight weeks old then the rest is down the the new family. 

You can only make a decision by trusting in your gut feeling, using all of the information you have to hand NOW. That decision will be the best decision possible at this point in time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we can never know exactly what will happen in the future and should not regret a decision from the past...... only learn from it. 

Allow yourself to express all of your emotions and anxieties to those close to you who know you well. By expressing them you will, hear them out load yourself, and this will help you make the decision that feels right in your heart....in the here and now. 

All the best Julia x


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> I'm sensing a lot of anxiety surrounding the choice of your puppy so feel compelled to indulge in offering my opinion, for what it's worth. From this and your other thread it appears to me that you have asked all the pertinent questions about the health and well being of the puppies you went to see. All on here have offered their opinions as it seems your local trainer has too. As always with us mere mortals we are all governed by our own lifes experiences. If we have a bad experience then that sets itself as a trigger in our sub-conscious brain so as to avoid that bad situation if it reoccurs. This is an effective defence mechanism in our primeval brain - touch fire, get burned, don't touch fire again. It's normal human behaviour, hence when you ask other opinions you must take that human tendency into account.....if the trainer has indeed had that experience then she will want to prevent a repeat for herself and anyone else. Personally if a dog has been put down by the age of one year old then I would suspect far more issues than just not being house trainable.
> 
> From a dogs point of view it doesn't catagorize the home in which it is born. Every dog is born in a 'den'! That den may be in a barn, a house, a kennel, a stable, a flat, under a bush, a cardboard box etc etc etc. Where ever the den is, the bitch will keep that area clean when the puppies go to the toilet. As the puppies grow they will all learn to use a toilet area away from the den and their mother will show them the way, they learn from her but that process only starts to happen from about 6-8 weeks old and continues....their learning then leads onto social behaviour, hunting skills, play fighting and all the necessary life skills to survive. The IMPORTANT bit is that the puppies must see humans as part of their 'pack' if they are to transfer the learning onto the 'human mummy' after they leave their real mummy. That is what socializing is for and that IS the breeders job. You as the new mummy then have to put the time, patience, and consistency in your toilet training carefully and calmly until your puppy understands the new pack rules, which it will given time and slack for making the odd mistake.
> 
> ...


Hi Julia

I just wanted to say what a beautifully written piece of advice and hope that iwantone listens to this especially from someone who has a great deal of experience with puppies.


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## holicon (Mar 8, 2011)

When I brought Coco he was living outside with his brothers and his mum and dad where in a kennel next door. She said she uses paper as their bedding so he should be easy to house train. I had no problem with him whatsoever, he was easy to toilet train. The only down side to him living outside was he was scared of hoovers brooms etc, but he has got over that now.


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## iwantone (May 9, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> I'm sensing a lot of anxiety surrounding the choice of your puppy so feel compelled to indulge in offering my opinion, for what it's worth. From this and your other thread it appears to me that you have asked all the pertinent questions about the health and well being of the puppies you went to see. All on here have offered their opinions as it seems your local trainer has too. As always with us mere mortals we are all governed by our own lifes experiences. If we have a bad experience then that sets itself as a trigger in our sub-conscious brain so as to avoid that bad situation if it reoccurs. This is an effective defence mechanism in our primeval brain - touch fire, get burned, don't touch fire again. It's normal human behaviour, hence when you ask other opinions you must take that human tendency into account.....if the trainer has indeed had that experience then she will want to prevent a repeat for herself and anyone else. Personally if a dog has been put down by the age of one year old then I would suspect far more issues than just not being house trainable.
> 
> From a dogs point of view it doesn't catagorize the home in which it is born. Every dog is born in a 'den'! That den may be in a barn, a house, a kennel, a stable, a flat, under a bush, a cardboard box etc etc etc. Where ever the den is, the bitch will keep that area clean when the puppies go to the toilet. As the puppies grow they will all learn to use a toilet area away from the den and their mother will show them the way, they learn from her but that process only starts to happen from about 6-8 weeks old and continues....their learning then leads onto social behaviour, hunting skills, play fighting and all the necessary life skills to survive. The IMPORTANT bit is that the puppies must see humans as part of their 'pack' if they are to transfer the learning onto the 'human mummy' after they leave their real mummy. That is what socializing is for and that IS the breeders job. You as the new mummy then have to put the time, patience, and consistency in your toilet training carefully and calmly until your puppy understands the new pack rules, which it will given time and slack for making the odd mistake.
> 
> ...


thank you Julia - those words of advice (and everyone elses words) have all been taken on board. 
I think it's time I take a step back and take a breath (I get a little OCD sometimes).
I appreciate everyone's time on my questions and feel that I am fully prepared for whichever decision we may make.
x


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## jools (Nov 11, 2010)

iwantone said:


> thank you Julia - those words of advice (and everyone elses words) have all been taken on board.
> I think it's time I take a step back and take a breath (I get a little OCD sometimes).
> I appreciate everyone's time on my questions and feel that I am fully prepared for whichever decision we may make.
> x


We are finally getting our little chap in 2weeks after much deliberation on what breeder to go for ...... taking a dog into your home is a massive decision and like yourself want it to be the right decision & the right dog for you & your family! As for dogs being bought up in barn, my friend got a labrador last year from the local farmer - he was toilet trained within a few days so i think what your trainer said sorry to say is a lot of nonsense (different if the dog was older and was outside for a long time - then i spose that habit would be hard to break)!! I think if you've met mum & all health checks match & the food shes weaning them is good quality go for it - you might miss out on the little chap (if its right you'll definitely know)!!!! Good luck j x


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

We got Karn our Boarder Collie from a hill farm in Northumberland, as sheep dogs are not house dogs he must have been born in a barn or out building we had no problem house training him at all.
My sons Boarder Collie was a victim of the foot and mouth outbreak years a go when there was no sheep for him to work my son took him on as the farmer had no use for him, he was about 2 years old and had never been in a house. It was a little bit harder to house train him but not imposable just needed patients.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Have you just ot in Colin


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

That was my last fix before bed.:smile:


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Dylan's litter was kept in a stable and he was fine to housetrain. I have also had a rescue dog and she was a nightmare - whereas some are great, there are a lot that are in rescue for a reason, and you can risk buying someone else's problems. That's not to say that it's not great to give a rescue dog a home, but you need to be prepared for the possibility of a big commitment to retraining and with a young child you might not think that is ideal. A puppy is hard work, but they are pretty much a blank slate that you can completely influence, whereas a rescue dog will be more formed in their habits, maybe good, but maybe not so good.


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## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

Blimey - the one definite thing that I was thinking while reading through all of these posts is that, if I were you, I wouldn't be using that trainer when you finally do get your dog!

She does sound like she has other issues (Julie put it very well, I think - we do tend to convert a single personal experience into an unbreakable rule that should apply to everyone, us humans!).

What is your main worry? If it is that you will end up with a dog with health problems, then maybe you need to ask to be put in touch with other people who've had dogs from there before? Equally so if you're worried about training problems, but as everyone else has said, I don't think that is anything to be worried about. If it's a gut feeling, then you just have to decide whether to go with it or not. Do you normally go with your gut feelings? If so, do things normally work out?

Just as an aside, Rosie came from a breeder that, had I known better, I might not have chosen, and I wouldn't swap her for the world.

Good luck - let us know what you decide!


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## strof51 (Sep 26, 2009)

When we picked Rosie up on Saturday she and her litter mates were in a stable at the breeders yard loads of room and having fun. Three and half days and no accidents ( touch wood  ).

Some pic's of the breeder playing with the pup's in the yard.


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