# Messing in the night



## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

My 12 week old pup is doing quite well toilet training during the day but nights are a nightmare!!! We have had 3 nights in last 4 weeks with no accidents but most mornings I come down to 3 or 4 poos??? I put her out around 11.30 and she wees and poos, her last feed is 5.30 pm. Help please!!! X


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

I would stil be.getting up with her in the middle of the night she obviasly still cant proerly hold it over night. .

what is she fed on?

did you do anything different on the days where she didnt mess.


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't do anything different , I used to get up in night but she messed before I got down so
I don't do it anymore. She is on natures best raw diet!


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

What time do you get up to her in the mornings? I put mine out at midnight and up again at 5 a.m- I couldn't face getting up in the middle of the night. Fortunately I never had one messy crate with either of them.


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

I started her in crate for first week and she messed in it when I came down at 2.30 and then again when I came down at 6. I get up with her about 6. I understand one poo but 3 or 4????? She is no longer in crate and has run of conservatory. She rarely has wee accidents in night, just the other!!!! X


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Oh dear, 3 or 4 sounds rather excessive! Maybe give her her last feed a bit earlier?


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

What time is the earliest to give last feed? I don't want her to be hungry!!!!


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

She is still pretty young still but mine had their last meal at 4. They were always hungry around 4. I gave them a chicken wing as well as their food so it was quite a large meal. They didn't appear to be hungry after that.


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

How about taking her for a little walk before bed? Might get things moving if you know what I mean! And that way she'll empty her bowels before bedtime?


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

She does go before bedtime, about 11.30 that's why I'm confused!!!


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Oh... In which case I'm stumped. However... 

You mentioned she's on Natures Best Raw Diet. 

Do you mean this one? http://www.hillspet.com/natures-best/canine-discover.html. The ingredients can be found here: http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-canine-natures-best-chicken-and-brown-rice-dinner-puppy-dry.html.

I’m no food expert but perhaps try something lower in fibre. Dogs don’t actually need the grains and carbohydrates and this food, although better than most contains rice, wholegrain wheat, pearl barley, oats and flaxseed – all of which would stimulate any puppy to poo more. These ingredients are a healthy filler but a filler all the same. In fact, this food is higher in carbohydrate (nearly 40%) than protein (30%) which is what dogs need most. 

Other dog foods that I know of are Fish 4 Dogs and Orijin. Fish 4 Dogs is 30% protein but the remaining ingredients are potatoes and vegetables. Be warned, it smells very fishy! Orijin is 70% protein and too rich for some puppies. It’s also very expensive. We bought a sample pack over the weekend and Saffi devoured it. Typical expensive tastes!

Another alternative that a lot of people swear by is Natural Instinct http://www.naturalinstinct.com/ but I don’t have any experience personally. 

If yes,


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## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

Purplemummy said:


> I started her in crate for first week and she messed in it when I came down at 2.30 and then again when I came down at 6. I get up with her about 6. I understand one poo but 3 or 4????? She is no longer in crate and has run of conservatory. She rarely has wee accidents in night, just the other!!!! X


Do you think its perhaps because she has run of conservatory. Maybe she is waking & having a good wander / sniff & so poos ? If she was still in crate she may realise its still night & go back to sleep maybe ? Or perhaps a bit nervous because she can't find you ? My Dexter is a crate in car pooper - pure nerves. Even if he's emptied his bowels, he'll still manage one when we've driven out of the street !!!


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

designsbyisis said:


> Do you think its perhaps because she has run of conservatory. Maybe she is waking & having a good wander / sniff & so poos ? If she was still in crate she may realise its still night & go back to sleep maybe ? Or perhaps a bit nervous because she can't find you ? My Dexter is a crate in car pooper - pure nerves. Even if he's emptied his bowels, he'll still manage one when we've driven out of the street !!!


I didn't note that she was no longer in her crate at night - I'd say that may well be part of the reason. I'm sure that a lot of puppies need to go during the night but do their best not to because they don't want to mess in their crates but if they had the choice of pooing away from their bed and returning to a clean spot they'd give in to their bodily functions! 

Was Honey unhappy in her crate? I know it looks like a cage to us but dogs see it as a safe place, their den. So perhaps she's actually happier confined to this space during the night and as Lisa suggests is a bit nervous having full run of the conservatory?


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

We put her in crate for a week and she messed in that too! Every night and at least twice, then she slept in it! As for the food, she used to be on dried food and the sane thing happened, she had only been on raw for 2 weeks. I don't know what else to do!!!! X


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

This is the food she has
http://naturesmenu.co.uk/products/Lamb_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/Frozen_Nuggets/


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Although you tried her in her crate I assume now that she’s 12 weeks that at this point she was just nine weeks old? Even though you didn’t have much success then I’d still try confining her to her crate now – she was younger then and perhaps had less control over her bowels. 

In her crate do you have vet bedding and/or newspaper or puppy pads? 

In terms of food I think it takes a long time for puppies’ tummies to settle. Our puppy Saffi is still 12 weeks old and sometimes we find a poo in her crate overnight. They’re still little and I think this is to be expected.


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## littlesunshine (Mar 28, 2012)

we've had a few messy nights then someone told me to get a small crate as ours was too big. i wouldnt have called it too big but what do i know. so we got a smaller one so she can stand up turn and lie down. first night she was dry all night, second she was messy but nothing since and that was 3 weeks ago. 
we were leaving her from 11pm - 4.00am then. now at 14 weeks she is doig 10.30pm - 5am.

you'll get there


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## susanb (Jan 19, 2012)

We had mess every night and we thought it would never get better. At about 15 weeks old it just stopped. We changed nothing! We have a 36" crate - half vet bed and half puppy pad at night time. The puppy pad has not been used for almost 2 weeks - but we still leave it there just in case. he has his last meal at around 5:30. We take him out at around 11:30pm (he only ever wees) and then get up to him at 7:30am when he will wee and poo.


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## zed (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey.. I have half bed and half training pad in a 36" crate as he is having the odd accident, however he lies on the training pad and poos or wees in his bed 

I know he will get there in the end so not too worried. I cut my 36" vet be in half so I can wash one on a 15min quick wash and use the other. I would definitely go back to the crate  

X


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

Do I shut the crate or leave it open? X


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Just so you know puppy pads have a smell that stimulates toileting. The idea behind a crate is that a puppy is less inclined to pee/poo in their own space. By putting a puppy pad in this space you’re unintentionally giving your puppy mixed messages. The same applies to paper within the crate as most puppies leave a breeder having been paper trained and so bv putting paper in the crate you’re inadvertently saying to the puppy that it’s ok to pee/poo in there. This may be why your puppy is having accidents on the vet bedding even though the puppy pad is there – he won’t be able to tell the difference between the two areas. 

We spread the vet bedding across the entire base and since then Saffi has been clean 9 days out of 10. 

Close the crate door!


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

I got told not to put paper or pads on crate as best to not encourage them to go in crate. She still pooed twice a night in crate and then slept in it. We then made crate smaller and same thing happened. I left her today which I don't do often, came home to 4 poos?????? If I'm there in the day she may go once but 4 times???? Every time she is left alone she pois, maybe nerves? I just don't know what to do????


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Purplemummy said:


> I got told not to put paper or pads on crate as best to not encourage them to go in crate. She still pooed twice a night in crate and then slept in it. We then made crate smaller and same thing happened. I left her today which I don't do often, came home to 4 poos?????? If I'm there in the day she may go once but 4 times???? Every time she is left alone she pois, maybe nerves? I just don't know what to do????


Yes - this is what I was told too. See my post above  

How long did you leave her for today?


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

3 hours, longest I have left her but I had to! X


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

We all have to leave our dogs at some point or another, don't worry. 

Has she been left before? 

We're getting Saffi used to being alone too. She gets dropped off by daycare at 3.30pm today at my parent's house and my Dad walked her over to ours and left her at 5.15pm. I got home at 6pm so she'd been alone for 45 minutes. The last time we left her was for half an hour. Eventually she'll be dropped off by daycare at 3.30pm and be by herself for 2.5 hours but we'll build up to that gradually.


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## xxxxxxxxhantsmummy (Mar 12, 2012)

The dog trainer thinks it's anxiety as she messes so much when alone. She cries and cries even if I leave her for 1 minute so I need to start leaving her for a few minutes and rewarding her. See if that works x


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

That sounds like a good plan! 

Good luck and let us know how you get on 

x


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## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

You will get there. Its probably a mix of all things - nerves, no yet old enough to hold it in, change of diet, jabs - it must be quite stressful for them.

There really is no right or wrong - you need to do what instinct tells you. I personally do newspaper one side & bed on other. He had quite a weak bladder to begin with & we have had to leave him from word go to do school runs etc, so that worked for us. 

We also turn in about 9.45 / 10pm - don't do late nights  due to kids !!! so he is left at night then till 6.30 so accidents do happen, usually when Dexter can hear the kids running around upstairs in the morning


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