# Could be the end



## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Think it's coming to a point of no return with Lola and the nasty side of her 
Despite all techniques suggested and constant ( almost 18 hours a day) training plus actual classes yet Lola has just tried ripping my arm off all because I said its bed time 
We are ready to give up 


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

18 hours a day training sounds a lot, Lola should be sleeping for 18 hours a day.
She's a teething puppy - she will bite, she will bit absolutely anything - several times even after been told no.
Think of her like a teething grumpy tantruming child frustrated & in pain.
Take a wet face cloth & freeze it - let her chew on that.
She's not nasty - just tired & teething, I promise you; as will many others on here that it will improve soon when all those teeth are through.
Don't give up......


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

That's very sad. I feel for you, and Lola.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

You have an issue with resource guarding and I have no idea what you have been doing with training 18 hours a day? You need a calm environment and to not confront her over things.

You either need to now take professional advice in which case let me know where you are based and I will try to find someone local to help or if you truly feel she is beyond help with you Wellerfeller will be able to help to re home her.

She is a 5 month old puppy not an aggressive dog who is beyond help


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## petentialpete (Mar 9, 2015)

This is such a sad post but I have to agree with the sensible words from tracey & 2nd handgal. She needs rest, not demands


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## alfiemorton (Mar 28, 2015)

Hi Zoe,
So sorry to hear that things have got so bad for you. It sounds like you're all stressed and miserable. It seemed Lola was doing so well, when you last posted, and it seems to be mainly this bedtime issue which has grown all out of proportion. Easy, as by bedtime you're going to be tired and so is Lola after all that training, and she'll be picking up on your stress too. She's the same age as Alfie and he has about 6 hours sleep in the daytime, as well as his 10 hours overnight. Is there nowhere else she could sleep at night? Alfie sleeps in the kitchen, so when I call him for his last garden trip, my boys close the door from the kitchen to the hallway, and then when he comes in from the garden to the kitchen again, he is in his sleeping place, where I leave him with a treat. It must be difficult to contain him in the hallway, as I imagine it's a main thoroughfare, or is he in a crate there? Has he actually bitten you? I wish I could help more, but I'm inexperienced mysel. Things have improved a lot with Alfie since I learned to read his body language better and to respect his space more. I do hope you get this sorted out. Christine x


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## Datun Walnut (Oct 15, 2013)

I know we joke about having a puppy being an difficult time but please believe us: we know how hard it is. Some of us had really horrible times as puppy owners but eventually, the hard work pays off. You are slap bang in the difficult time and there will be times that you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. It will come honestly.
The reality gap between having a puppy and imagining having one can be huge. I admit I didn't come out of the experience covered in glory myself. 

I don't think listening to a load of strangers on a forum can really press this home enough. Maybe you need to speak to your vet or an animal behaviourist to reassure yourself more? 

Keep your pup calm and asleep as much as possible, be firm but loving and for god's sake look after yourself during this period. It is a terrible trial but the pup you have now won't turn into a nasty adult. I bet some of us on the forum were horrible children who turned out ok.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Just to confirm if you truly feel you have reached the point of no return then she is rehomeable and I will help or Wellerfeller will help.

Your other options are to get in a professional to advise or if you want handling advice describe exactly what you are doing and when she is reacting. I thought you were closing doors to the lounge to get her to where you wanted her?


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

It always worries me when I hear of relationships that are breaking down like this one. Zoe does she greet you happily when she sees you? What makes her tail wag hardest? Do you walk her with other dogs and dog people? Who has she most bonded to? Is the trouble strictly with bed time and resource guarding or are there other things about her you worry about as well?


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I am sad to read this.
Please please talk to 2nd or Wellerfeller (Karen).
You can private message them and they will help.
It sounds as if you are frightened of Lola and she is frightened of you.


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Goodness, I didn't realise this was a 20 week old puppy we were talking about. Zoe, please can you describe a day to me, a day in the life of Lola? Do you have young children? The others are right. 18 hours a day training? My God, who has the time? Do you ever just sit and cuddle your little pup until she goes to sleep? She must be exhausted. It's not unusual for pups to sleep for 18 hours a day. 

Puppy's respond best to calmness. All the time. Plenty of praise and plenty of sleep. A typical day would be. Get up, let puppy out for toilet, go with her if necessary. Feeds puppy, have a little play, toilet again, sleep. Puppy wakes up, walk for twenty minutes maximum, home, sleep, wake, toilet, feed, play, cuddle. Sleep. Wake toilet, train , sleep, toilet, feed, cuddle, sleep, toilet bed. That's it. Back off from the training. Be calm, gentle and loving. Leave her to eat undisturbed, if she has a toy, do not approach her to remove it, gently call her to you and offer a high value treat in exchange. Gradually, she will learn to trust you and with plenty of sleep her mood will improve and as you relax so will yours.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi Zoe, can you please pm me. I know someone that in the very least be able to help you with your puppy and possibly get her in to a new home. Please get in touch.


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Makes me sad to read this...she's just a baby ...Molly was a nightmare when she was a pup especially when she was over tired. Time outs in her crate helped a lot. I had days when I wanted to give her away but looking at her innocent little face I could never. With patience and puppy class we got through it and now she's the best dog ever😊..she will be 3 soon and I love her to death. I hope you can find your pup a loving home!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok I've typed this completely wrong it was late and I'm exhausted 
Firstly this isn't just a bedtime thing and not a particular item 
For example , just now I turned the TV off and walked past Lola who immediately began to growl! 
I'm not frightened of her one bit I'm just disappointed as we have done everything by the book, she socialises with many dogs perfectly, she does exactly what she's told pretty much all the time , she is left on her own without a problem whenever she gets untold amounts of praise 
We never ever shout at her , ever!!!! She has time outs etc 
In short, every single suggestion we have read here we have tried more than once, I'm being 100% honest I read everything and research everything 
90% of the time she is more than perfect , way way more 
It's not teething , I know what teething is this is completely different , like a complete different dog!! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh and she sleeps plenty by the way 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

She's not 20 weeks cat 53 she will be 6 months on
The 28th June 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Ps 
She loves where she sleeps it's not that 
Quite often she will pop on her bed in the daytime she loves it! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

2nd hand we do close the doors 
Like I say it's not that 
I'm 40 years old and consider myself an intelligent person so please accept I take all this on board!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

And the 18 hours training 
Like I said I was exhausted and typed that wrong 
She has a calm environment she has enough rest 
I'm starting to regret even posting my original post now as every suggestion is stuff we do already ...


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Cat 53 
We wake 
Fuss Lola, she goes out to the garden to pee 
My daughter then walks her for at least 30 mins, she comes home drinks and falls asleep 
When she wakes maybe anything between 1-3 hours, she will go to the loo outside again, then we have a playtime, she will then sleep again, by around 5pm she gets another walk 30-40 mins or more .. ( these are off lead) 
Comes home drinks eats and crashes out, in the eve she's happy dozing and playing 
Around 10pm ish she's crashed out somewhere either in the lounge or near her bed 
If the latter there's no prob 
If in lounge and we are ready to go up that's when the snarling starts ... Or if she has a chew or dentistix ... 



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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi Zoe, please don't feel angry with people. They are trying their best to offer help. From the outside we can all sense your frustration and understand why you feel that why but so will Lola, she will know exactly what's coming and feel that you feel the same. You are both up for the battle before you even get anywhere near each other. Here's what I would do... If she is guarding treats then I would give no treats for now. This will remove the object of contention. I know she will still steal socks and stuff but you can deal with that on as and when it happens. When she does this stay calm and bargain with her as you have done but do not act like you want the sock lol. My dog used to be like this with tissues!!! Now he picks them up but knows something better is on offer if he drops so does not guard or eat them any longer. It does work, I promise.
With the bedtime thing, I would either try and pre empt her complete crash out and put her in where she sleeps before she settles for the night or leave a house training line on her ( supervised of course) then when it's time for bed just say a nice loud-ish "bedtime Lola" so she knows you are coming and is aware and then take the line ( no where near her physically) and just gently but firmly lead her to her bed/room. 
She is heading bang on in to her teens and everything can get bad in that period! It's like going back to square one BUT if you keep your cool, stay calm and try and remember that she's not doing it to be mean or horrible to you and you still to your guns, she will come out the other side, they all do and you will feel on top of the world because you have a lovely dog and you helped make her that way. 
She's just being a bit of a spoilt brat and has learned extremely quickly how to influence things around her. She can also learn equally as fast how to be good!
Like I said I do know someone that can help you, 100%. He is amazing, pm me, please.
X


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Hi 
Thankyou for that, it's not anger I feel, just most suggested ideas we have tried...
She doesn't guard treats 
Maybe a dentistix but normally it's something like a drawing pin or similar but we don't even try to take them anymore, we only need to walk within a metre of her and she presumes we will take it I guess. 
In response to Marzi 
She loves us all equally I think .. I've not noticed a particular bond with any of us, as you know she is my daughters dog , and when she has these " moments " it upsets her, I tell her she will grow out of it, which so far my daughter has taken on board. She adores her boyfriend, as in literally shadows him when he is here, but she has also given him a snarl and gone for him too. The odd thing is when she does do this , and if I'm lucky enough to have a treat to hand, all I have to do is say, what's this Lola and tell her to sit and instantly she does just that! 
Right now she's laying in the sun just outside the door looking angelic!! 


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

I hope you can work things out with Lola, hopefully you've had a private message from Karen (wellerfeller) and there is a way forward for you all?


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I am awaiting a private message 
I will then pass on the contact details of my sanity saver magic man


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Done!!! 


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Connections are being made and I'm sure Lola will be back out of the naughty corner very soon


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## Humspoff (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm not going to add anything to the mix here but I am interested in the bedtime routine. Obi won't stay in a room im not in at bedtime... Does Lola just stay in that room when you leave it and turn out the lights?


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Yes she does and has done from day one no crying or anything. There's a stair gate preventing her from going into the lounge and another at the bottom of the stairs 


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## Humspoff (Aug 26, 2014)

I do hope you are able to get Lola to your way of thinking. Let us know how it all goes.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Going backwards ...


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

have you got anyone to help locally?

I am happy to talk on or offline about how I would manage situations with Molly if you give full details of what is happening and where they are going wrong.


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## casa42 (Jun 13, 2015)

Hi I'm in Cambridgeshire too. I took my last dog to a fantastic trainer in Soham I don't know where about in Cambridgeshire you are and perhaps this isn't an option for you. My dog already knew most of the commands we learnt but giving her a job helped her a lot. I loved my dog but she had a lot of issues and when I started the course I was desperate. People also suggested a behaviourists but I can't remember his name. Good luck x


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

We've contacted a guy but he's not coming until 19th July so are going to keep at it until then, it's so sad as we just can't work out how and why it's happened ! 
Thanks for all advice everyone 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Just reread all of this to try to find some clues. Two things I noticed, first is I think she needs a strong bond with only one person first. In my opinion whoever is there most should take over until the trainer can come. Either you, your daughter or her boyfriend should back off for a bit until Lola feels very secure that one of you is her go to, forever person. That includes all walking, all training, all feeding and all treat and toy dispensing. 

Second thing is that they are very, very vocal dogs. Rufus growls all the time, in all kinds of situations. He growls with his tail at full wag, he growls with his ball in his mouth, he growls at HO when she tells him to get off her pillow even as he grumpily does as she asked. Growling alone does not mean they are going to go full throttle, it just means they are trying to communicate. 

Obviously you need to be safe. Will she mouth your hands softly now, did you teach her bite inhibition?


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh yes she does that and it's not a growl we are concerned about its more the snarl and spitting kind of thing she does if she is guarding or whatever.. Which has progressed into more frequent 
I've taken over, as I'm the one here mostly she follows me around like a shadow sometimes ! 



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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

That's great that she has one person she can build a trusting reationship with. I know the snapping, spitting, snarling that you speak of. I was mortified yesterday at the dog park went Rufus went full throttle Tasmanian devil at a ten month old boxer pup who came too close to me. He has been playing so much with his huge gallumphing galloof cousin Zorbie who won't take no for an answer. I think he surprised even himself with his ferociousness.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

OK - until now then you need to find ways to totally avoid confrontation as much as possible, so anything she may guard put up high out of the way and night time routine if that is still a problem manage with calling her outside for last wee's then calling her in for biscuit in "her" area. Happy to try and give as much help as I can if you can give me details of circumstances you are having problems


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

She's not like it with dogs though, that I could understand .. It's really difficult to give details as sometimes it happens completely unexpectedly ! 
Sorry for late response, Lola was having a haircut , which , strange as it may seem, she willingly allowed us to do and was very helpful also! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

She doesn't really have a last wee time but we've just been picking the right time when she's in her bed area to shut the stairgate, she then takes herself to bed . 


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

She doesn't do it with dogs as she and they caN read each other very easily, humans cannot pick up her subtle 'talk' so she has upped things in an effort to get her meaning across.......and it works.
As Dawn says, try and avoid all confrontation until help arrives. To me she sounds totally insecure and very worried. This can be turned around. Hang in there!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Oh no don't say that! 


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