# Molly's becoming a Social outcast...



## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm sorry for the long post ...bare with me 

Molly has never exactly been a social butterfly when it comes to other dogs although she was always happy to play with similar sized dogs although always wary of bigger dogs. 

However recently, she is struggling with greeting lots of dogs, whatever size. Granted, it's not every time but definitely increasingly so. She has never enjoyed being sniffed but would tolerate it and sit down or whatever whereas now she'll freeze then turn round snarling/growling at the dog...it's as if she's telling them to back off as opposed to going for it..although perhaps she would if it never took the hint. It's not always prompted by sniffing though and she can be face to face with another dog then growl at it. 

I have thought that she is perhaps guarding me but she has done it with my Dad too. He thinks she'll grow out of it and it's not a big deal 

This is all off led interactions, she has growled previously on the lead which I can normally control through her focusing on me which she does very well...it's the off lead interactions which are worrying me most. She's so good off lead and never strays far, I'd hate to limit her to purely on lead walks. 

She's only 18 months so far too young to be a grumpy old dog and miss out on the social interaction that she needs . It is stressful knowing whether to let her approach a dog or not as I'm not always sure how she will react..then if she does react negatively I'm not sure how best to deal with it....do I ignore and move on or do I say "no" etc. 

I'm concerned its in her genes as I contacted her sisters owners who reports the same issues although her dog reacts by running away or hiding behind the owner . Molly is obviously more reactive. 

Whatever the issue, I want to try and deal with it and not isolate ourselves from the doggie world which would be the easiest path to take. I'm not sure how to proceed though, she obviously wants distance from dogs at times but I feel that once she gets to know them she loves a run and a play.

Any advice MOST welcome 

I stupidly have posted this as I'm starting nightshift but will most definitely read and respond although perhaps not very promptly 

Apart from this she is honestly the sweetest, most obedient dog and an absolute pleasure to have around 

xxx


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## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

You may want to work with a trainer on a private basis. I have so far lucky with Piper. But she hasn't been exposed to many big dogs at the moment. Mainly all her size. One of my neighborhoods has an 70 pond dog that Piper met for a few minutes and did well.

The trainer may be able to introduce her to dogs in a controlled environment. And to teach her manners for meeting dogs.


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

She may well be being protective of you and warning other dogs off you. Bonnie went through a phase of being a bit like this with my daughter. Try being really friendly to other dogs and greet them in a happy voice and even stroke them. If Molly knows you are happy she may not feel she has to be hostile towards them. You may also be tensing up and unintentionally encouraging her behavior as other dogs approach.

It worked for us and it might be worth a try. Good luck!


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Sorry I don't really have any advice, except unless you can get more doggy interaction on a controlled basis, with other dog owners you know?
Or maybe an obedience class?
The only other thing I have to say is..... "She's just been a diva!" X
And rightly so too


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

She needs a Poo meet!


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Florida Cockapoo said:


> You may want to work with a trainer on a private basis. I have so far lucky with Piper. But she hasn't been exposed to many big dogs at the moment. Mainly all her size. One of my neighborhoods has an 70 pond dog that Piper met for a few minutes and did well.
> 
> The trainer may be able to introduce her to dogs in a controlled environment. And to teach her manners for meeting dogs.


Thanks Kim, yes I'm unsure whether its best to go to classes with a small group of well behaved dogs or whether to get a trainer ... Finding the root of the problem is the main issue. 

Piper sounds like she's doing fab tolerating such a big dog... Good girl 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

tessybear said:


> She may well be being protective of you and warning other dogs off you. Bonnie went through a phase of being a bit like this with my daughter. Try being really friendly to other dogs and greet them in a happy voice and even stroke them. If Molly knows you are happy she may not feel she has to be hostile towards them. You may also be tensing up and unintentionally encouraging her behavior as other dogs approach.
> 
> It worked for us and it might be worth a try. Good luck!


Thank you Tess... She may well be doing this , especially when it's not sniffing related. 

Sometimes when I see another dog come bounding over I repeatedly say "it's ok Molly" etc and greet the other dog merrily and she will tolerate it although not exactly enjoy the encounter. 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Tinman said:


> Sorry I don't really have any advice, except unless you can get more doggy interaction on a controlled basis, with other dog owners you know?
> Or maybe an obedience class?
> The only other thing I have to say is..... "She's just been a diva!" X
> And rightly so too


Lol ... Diva is right 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Cat 53 said:


> She needs a Poo meet!


Haha...As long as she didn't scare all the poos away... 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

I've been to a good manners class with her purely for the social interaction and she was an angel ... She'd focus on me (or my treats more like) and wouldn't bat an eye at the other dogs ). The trainer said that she was excellent!!! 

It was a chaotic class though, full of HIGHLY reactive dogs therefore very un conducive to any social interaction and play. 

xxx


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## dio.ren (Jan 18, 2013)

Well I can't offer any advice but hopefully you will find a solution! Little Molly is adorable though


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Bonnie was the same in puppy socialisation class and obedience class, beautifully behaved. She has also been very well behaved in day care. She felt for some reason she had to protect my daughter I think by warning other dogs off. I did note though that the other dogs didn't really take any notice of her unfriendly behaviour or find her threatening although their owners did!


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## Skyesdog (Jun 7, 2012)

I wonder if it is an age / stage thing Mairi because Lola has been starting to get like this lately too. Her triggers seem to be if she has her ball and an other dog shows an interest or bottom sniffing too! I can understand the bottom sniffing, I would react the same way 😄 but don't know how to deal with the ball issue. I have just been saying NO and taking ball away for 5 mins. It doesn't happen very often but definitely a new thing. Before she would just flop onto her back whenever she met other dogs, as you know!!! Don't want her becoming a grumpy old lady!!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Mairi, is Molly like this with ALL dogs or just ones that bound over pretty uncontrollable? It may be the over enthusiastic approach that us making her wary. It sounds like she is feeling insecure?


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Its funny because Dudley is around the same age and although he still loves nothing better than a good doggy play I have started worrying as just the last week or so he has got a bit snarly during play, most mornings we meet a playful lab puppy, she is about 7 months and her play is all rough and tumble, I thought it was just with her when he got overtired, although he wasn't trying to get away from her, but then the other day he started doing it again and even did it to a young puppy, I stop him, then he still charges over to play again so I'm not sure why he has started it, and I hated that the pups owner looked a bit worried as Dudley has always been the daft soft one that was brilliant with every other dog. There is a staffi cross that is a little older than them who was a great playmate of Dudley's, but she seemed to change into a grumpy old lady overnight, her owners still walk across where the rest of us have dogs but they have a quick chat and move on and Nell naturally keeps her distance.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

If she was so good in training and ignored other dogs to focus on you then do the same when you are out. Take plenty of yummy treats and use the same methods out on a walk.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I will say though that when these dogs grow up they can lose their playful puppiness. Weller certainly did, he turned into Mr sensible at about 18 months. He loves a long walk but will in general not play with other dogs anymore. He just ignores everyone. He doesn't mind other dogs but they must have manners otherwise there's lots of growling and avoidance. I think it comes as quite a shock as cockapoos as pups are SO playful and in everyone's business!!


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

I wonder if Beemer and Lexi will be like Molly and her sister. Beemer tends to bark and growl at things that frighten him and Lexi runs away to me. At this point I'm grateful it's only one barky dog.
I wonder if Molly will play with the dogs after they have this exchange. Some of the older dogs did this to my two early on as they were a bit much with their puppy ways. Now you they play like old friends. Oh and Beemer gets especially sensitive about sniffing after a recent vet visit (thermometer in bum).

She could be also sensing your worries so that just escalated her behavior. Maybe Molly isn't so easy and likes a little wooing before the sniff plunge.  I wouldn't worry too much as it sounds like dogs communicating with each other and the messages are getting across. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree with Karen that it sounds like she is insecure in an environment she doesn't own/control and certain dogs are maybe too much for her. I would probably go down the route of controlled socialisation with a trainer to allow her to develop confidence around other dogs and also to see that other dogs are not a threat. She may also benefit from seeing you interact with other dogs and learn that she doesn't need to be protective of you. 

Molly does sound a bit like me though.. I like to work people out before I let my guard down..


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I also have to say that Lola is really starting to mature.. I've seen a real change in her over the last month. So much more obedient, receptive, focussed, sensible even. She would have ran to dogs and initiated play immediately but now she stops and there's a lot of sniffing and communication until play actually begins.. 

Maybe they are all just getting older and less playful..


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

wellerfeller said:


> I will say though that when these dogs grow up they can lose their playful puppiness. Weller certainly did, he turned into Mr sensible at about 18 months. He loves a long walk but will in general not play with other dogs anymore. He just ignores everyone. He doesn't mind other dogs but they must have manners otherwise there's lots of growling and avoidance. I think it comes as quite a shock as cockapoos as pups are SO playful and in everyone's business!!


Karen, you have hit it on the head here.... Exactly what happened to Arthur. It came as a bit of a shock to me as well as he was the puppy that bounded up to everyone and wouldn't take no for an answer from other dogs, then really quickly he turned into being quiet an assertive ( but not nasty) dog!!


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Sounds just like Biscuit too. He used to be the friendliest puppy but now he's become a bit of a wuss! He'd never run up and greet a dog now. Usually he just stands and freezes or, if its a big bouncy dog, will make this scaredy noise and run to the side! He does it with people too. He did go through a bit of a snarly stage at about 15 months but seems to have stopped that now but is maybe timid. He's also become more uncomfortable with lots of people walking up from behind. If he stops to sniff and then gets caught behind a man, he seems unable to get past him to catch me up, so I end up letting the other people past so he can catch me up. If the people try and be friendly, he makes his scaredy noise again and jumps to the side! He's a funny old thing! He just likes to keep himself to himself. xx


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

This was always our issue with Jake. We went through training and we were told that dogs sense imbalance in other dogs. Jake has low tolerance for unbalanced dogs or exuberant puppies. 
He hates being sniffed but will tolerate it from some dogs but not others. He dies do better off leash. Once I see the signs I always quickly get his attention and redirect. 
He also thinks it is his job to break up fights and protect Willow. Again we just pay close attention. 
I would suggest watching the dogs she reacts to. Do they have good manners? Are they overly friendly? 
As far as people go, Jake has always been shy of people and does not like small kids. 
I do have to say in all honestly getting Willow did improve his issues  because she is so much more relaxed and friendly. He will often follow her lead. 
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Fiver (Nov 26, 2011)

mairi1 said:


> I'm sorry for the long post ...bare with me
> 
> Molly has never exactly been a social butterfly when it comes to other dogs although she was always happy to play with similar sized dogs although always wary of bigger dogs.
> 
> ...


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Val, I was going to start a post asking you how Milo was doing and if you got his eyes checked out?
As well as the occasional snarly play Dudley has barked at people walking towards us, or one one occasion at a man just sitting on a bench, I have always walked him towards them and once he is close he is fine again and goes into his usual waggy self. I must admit I will be quite upset if he does get grumpy with other dogs, I love watching them play and there are a few older ones that are still happy to join in so I hope its just an occasional thing for him.


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## Skyesdog (Jun 7, 2012)

Really interesting reading everyone's replies. Does seem to be an age where they change a little.


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## Ted (Jul 29, 2013)

At the moment, we have the complete opposite, Ted is too boisterous!! he will jump up and actually hop on his back legs trying to greet dogs/people!   It's really annoying and getting to us that he does this. We are going to classes (only 2 at the mo) but I will discuss this with the trainer this week, as with Molly, some dogs don't like this friendly over enthusiastic dog jumping at them! sometimes I think we have inherited 'Marley' the dog!!
Hopefully Molly will soon be back to how she was


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Mairi, I can sympathise! It's so frustrating as we know how lovely and friendly our Poos are but the other dog owner doesn't know that... 

I'm not sure why Molly has started this - age, a particular incident or a combination of triggers? I would definitely recommend you dropping the "It's Ok Molly" as I think she may well pick up on your subconscious anxiety and react defensively. It's so hard, I know, but they really do sense how we are feeling and if you are nervous then she will be too. As you know I spent some time working with a behaviourist with Obi for his fear aggression and the biggest tool I learnt was the Watch me command. I use it all the time and it works really well. I've just posted about it on another thread but happy to talk it through with you if you fancy a chat. You know how to reach me . I also have to agree with whoever said they were worse when on lead. Obi is much worse when on-lead and a dog comes bounding over because he cannot flee. However I have made the decision to always try to be in control so I do a pop lead on when a strange dog approaches. Im also now much more protective of Obi so if the "other" dog is rushing in and determined to greet then I step in front of Obi and put my hand out to the other dog and say No in a loud voice. I also carry a water spray if the No doesn't work but have not needed to use it so far. I am going to protect my dog and I don't really care what the other dog owner thinks if their dog is out of control. For them to shout "it's ok, he's friendly" is not good enough because my dog is nervous and will react if pushed. Gosh, just realised I'm ranting but this is a sensitive subject for me and my pet hate is out of control, off lead dogs! LOL  

Hopefully this is phase with Molly but with some training I'm sure you'll manage it so you can enjoy your walks again.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

If she is sweet and obedient then I would try not to stress about this too much. Dogs are excellent communicators and she'll learn to tone down the back off signals on her own. Walking her where she likes to go best, walking her with dogs she likes and trusts and keeping a lighthearted approach will all help. I think your dad is right!


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your replies, sorry I'm late in responding, not long out of bed as on nightshift 



tessybear said:


> Bonnie was the same in puppy socialisation class and obedience class, beautifully behaved. She has also been very well behaved in day care. She felt for some reason she had to protect my daughter I think by warning other dogs off. I did note though that the other dogs didn't really take any notice of her unfriendly behaviour or find her threatening although their owners did!


Thanks again Tess. They do sound quite similar and will def take your advice and be a lot more upbeat with other dogs. She doesn't normally mind me clapping them etc so will up the ante a but more.

You are so right about the owners though, neither Molly or the other dog look overly stressed but I can tell the owners are unimpressed which I hate and feel guilty about. I of course would perhaps be the same though if the tables were turned. 

xxx



Skyesdog said:


> I wonder if it is an age / stage thing Mairi because Lola has been starting to get like this lately too. Her triggers seem to be if she has her ball and an other dog shows an interest or bottom sniffing too! I can understand the bottom sniffing, I would react the same way &#55357;&#56836; but don't know how to deal with the ball issue. I have just been saying NO and taking ball away for 5 mins. It doesn't happen very often but definitely a new thing. Before she would just flop onto her back whenever she met other dogs, as you know!!! Don't want her becoming a grumpy old lady!!


I dont think you need to worry about Lola too much Nadine, she is a fabulous sociable young dog ...she just like to keep her ball for herself...so what!!  You can control that and just limit her having it on walks. Yes I'm sure she's maturing and perhaps will not tolerate behaviours she did as a youngster but she's very comfortable around dogs of all shapes and sizes . 

I wish she'd give Molly a few tips 

xxx



wellerfeller said:


> Mairi, is Molly like this with ALL dogs or just ones that bound over pretty uncontrollable? It may be the over enthusiastic approach that us making her wary. It sounds like she is feeling insecure?


Hi Karen, it used to be limited to bigger dogs and she'd bark at them but now it's not limited to them, it can be a timid dog doing nothing wrong (in my eyes anyway) . This off lead snarling is completely new, especially related to the sniffing business ...I do understand why she doesn't like it but just want to be able to manage it ..I now normally just try and allow a brief sniff and move on before it escalates. I can get her focus on me with treats etc...I just need to plan what I'm going to do, should I avoid all confrontations initially and try and desensitize her or allow small brief controlled greeting if possible. It's very hard to judge as some dogs she will be absolutely fine with. 

xxx



wellerfeller said:


> I will say though that when these dogs grow up they can lose their playful puppiness. Weller certainly did, he turned into Mr sensible at about 18 months. He loves a long walk but will in general not play with other dogs anymore. He just ignores everyone. He doesn't mind other dogs but they must have manners otherwise there's lots of growling and avoidance. I think it comes as quite a shock as cockapoos as pups are SO playful and in everyone's business!!


Haha...sensible mr Weller 
I think the thing with Molly is that she's never been that bouncy puppy who ran up to every man and his dog, yes she played a lot more with similar sized dogs but was never outgoing so it's not a huge change for her. People always think she is older than her years. 
It's just the recent development of these horrible noises upon meeting other dogs off lead that is new. 

xxx



DB1 said:


> Its funny because Dudley is around the same age and although he still loves nothing better than a good doggy play I have started worrying as just the last week or so he has got a bit snarly during play, most mornings we meet a playful lab puppy, she is about 7 months and her play is all rough and tumble, I thought it was just with her when he got overtired, although he wasn't trying to get away from her, but then the other day he started doing it again and even did it to a young puppy, I stop him, then he still charges over to play again so I'm not sure why he has started it, and I hated that the pups owner looked a bit worried as Dudley has always been the daft soft one that was brilliant with every other dog. There is a staffi cross that is a little older than them who was a great playmate of Dudley's, but she seemed to change into a grumpy old lady overnight, her owners still walk across where the rest of us have dogs but they have a quick chat and move on and Nell naturally keeps her distance.


Thanks Dawn, I'm sure Dudley is just growing up and although he clearly still loves to play he won't tolerate as much as he used to as a pup which is understandable. He goes back for more and the other dogs are not running from him so I'm sure it's fine.

It's the owners who more often have the issues than the dogs. 

I hope Molly's not going to turn into the 'Nell' of your dog park 

xxx



Lexi&Beemer said:


> I wonder if Beemer and Lexi will be like Molly and her sister. Beemer tends to bark and growl at things that frighten him and Lexi runs away to me. At this point I'm grateful it's only one barky dog.
> I wonder if Molly will play with the dogs after they have this exchange. Some of the older dogs did this to my two early on as they were a bit much with their puppy ways. Now you they play like old friends. Oh and Beemer gets especially sensitive about sniffing after a recent vet visit (thermometer in bum).
> 
> She could be also sensing your worries so that just escalated her behavior. Maybe Molly isn't so easy and likes a little wooing before the sniff plunge.  I wouldn't worry too much as it sounds like dogs communicating with each other and the messages are getting across.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Thanks Maureen  , yes sometimes it's just that initial greeting that's the issue although there are other times when she growls at them after this. 

She sometimes then tries to initiate play and quite often they're not interested ...they just want a sniff then go on about their business whereas I know if she's comfortable with a dog she'll play with it. She has a Jack Russell as a best friend who she ADORES and chases all day when they're together. 

xxx



RuthMill said:


> I agree with Karen that it sounds like she is insecure in an environment she doesn't own/control and certain dogs are maybe too much for her. I would probably go down the route of controlled socialisation with a trainer to allow her to develop confidence around other dogs and also to see that other dogs are not a threat. She may also benefit from seeing you interact with other dogs and learn that she doesn't need to be protective of you.
> 
> Molly does sound a bit like me though.. I like to work people out before I let my guard down..


Lol Ruth, sometimes I think she feeds off me as I'm not very outgoing myself!! 

Yes I think more controlled socialisation can only be a positive thing, it's just finding the right class etc. I also thought about her going out with a prof dog walker with a few other dogs, not sure if that would help or not. 

xxx



RuthMill said:


> I also have to say that Lola is really starting to mature.. I've seen a real change in her over the last month. So much more obedient, receptive, focussed, sensible even. She would have ran to dogs and initiated play immediately but now she stops and there's a lot of sniffing and communication until play actually begins..
> 
> Maybe they are all just getting older and less playful..


Lola is turning into a proper lady 

xxx



Janev1000 said:


> Sounds just like Biscuit too. He used to be the friendliest puppy but now he's become a bit of a wuss! He'd never run up and greet a dog now. Usually he just stands and freezes or, if its a big bouncy dog, will make this scaredy noise and run to the side! He does it with people too. He did go through a bit of a snarly stage at about 15 months but seems to have stopped that now but is maybe timid. He's also become more uncomfortable with lots of people walking up from behind. If he stops to sniff and then gets caught behind a man, he seems unable to get past him to catch me up, so I end up letting the other people past so he can catch me up. If the people try and be friendly, he makes his scaredy noise again and jumps to the side! He's a funny old thing! He just likes to keep himself to himself. xx


I've often thought that Biscuit sounds very like Molly 

She's not had any real issues with people yet..will sometimes bark at a lone person in the dark but generally is fine. 
I hope , like biscuit, she comes out of this snarly stage too. 
I think it's definitely 'in her' to be wary of other dogs...she's never been outgoing in this department despite socialisation. I just need to try and work with her so she trusts me and doesnt feel threatened.

xxx



dmgalley said:


> This was always our issue with Jake. We went through training and we were told that dogs sense imbalance in other dogs. Jake has low tolerance for unbalanced dogs or exuberant puppies.
> He hates being sniffed but will tolerate it from some dogs but not others. He dies do better off leash. Once I see the signs I always quickly get his attention and redirect.
> He also thinks it is his job to break up fights and protect Willow. Again we just pay close attention.
> I would suggest watching the dogs she reacts to. Do they have good manners? Are they overly friendly?
> ...


Thanks Donna , I can't see a pattern to the types of dogs yet...recently sit seemed to be any dog supposing it was a lovely timid wee thing 

Interestingly, she's always Been pretty good with puppies ... Of course that could change. My Friend has A working cocker who is the same age as Molly, they used to play together but now she's not interested on him at all. He's not been neutered yet though and is full oh with really high energy levels. I think she smells his testosterone!! She's growled at him a few times but then just watches him as he runs like a maniac around the park with her ball!! I don't think he even notices her now...he totally trampled over her a couple of weeks ago winding her quite badly so that didn't help...poor wee thing was that winded she couldn't give him a row!! 

She is also put off with other dogs barking loudly which he does ..it's ok for her to bark though!! 

xxx



Fiver said:


> Mairi, I've had the same odd blip with Milo, he snarled and growled at a lovely laid back cocker. I was really quite shocked. My trainer said when a dog is on lead it looks to us to help them out of a stressful situation because they cannot remove themselves. Off lead I am trying to read his body language with other dogs and if either he or another dog stare directly at each other I put him on his lead and go in the opposite direction. Sometimes Milo will meet and greet and have a little run around but he doesn't play like when he was a puppy. I think my boy has finally got some dog manners.
> 
> Val


Hi Val, 
I think when they growl at a seemingly laid back dog that is what concerns me most, other bouncy dogs you can understand although not always condone. 

I'm going to try hard to read the signs and pop her on her lead when a new dog is approaching as sometimes I think she feels more secure on it although I've until now done the opposite and let her off the lead...not sure what's best. 

Your boy has always been very sociable and you go to training classes where he meets dogs regularly therefore I'd hope for you that it's just a wee blip that you and your trainer aware of and working on 

xxx



Ted said:


> At the moment, we have the complete opposite, Ted is too boisterous!! he will jump up and actually hop on his back legs trying to greet dogs/people!   It's really annoying and getting to us that he does this. We are going to classes (only 2 at the mo) but I will discuss this with the trainer this week, as with Molly, some dogs don't like this friendly over enthusiastic dog jumping at them! sometimes I think we have inherited 'Marley' the dog!!
> Hopefully Molly will soon be back to how she was


I wouldn't worry too much...Ted is a puppy and should be creating havoc bouncing everywhere...it's normal 

I wish Molly had been more outgoing as a puppy like Ted 

xxx



Jedicrazy said:


> Mairi, I can sympathise! It's so frustrating as we know how lovely and friendly our Poos are but the other dog owner doesn't know that...
> 
> I'm not sure why Molly has started this - age, a particular incident or a combination of triggers? I would definitely recommend you dropping the "It's Ok Molly" as I think she may well pick up on your subconscious anxiety and react defensively. It's so hard, I know, but they really do sense how we are feeling and if you are nervous then she will be too. As you know I spent some time working with a behaviourist with Obi for his fear aggression and the biggest tool I learnt was the Watch me command. I use it all the time and it works really well. I've just posted about it on another thread but happy to talk it through with you if you fancy a chat. You know how to reach me . I also have to agree with whoever said they were worse when on lead. Obi is much worse when on-lead and a dog comes bounding over because he cannot flee. However I have made the decision to always try to be in control so I do a pop lead on when a strange dog approaches. Im also now much more protective of Obi so if the "other" dog is rushing in and determined to greet then I step in front of Obi and put my hand out to the other dog and say No in a loud voice. I also carry a water spray if the No doesn't work but have not needed to use it so far. I am going to protect my dog and I don't really care what the other dog owner thinks if their dog is out of control. For them to shout "it's ok, he's friendly" is not good enough because my dog is nervous and will react if pushed. Gosh, just realised I'm ranting but this is a sensitive subject for me and my pet hate is out of control, off lead dogs! LOL
> 
> Hopefully this is phase with Molly but with some training I'm sure you'll manage it so you can enjoy your walks again.


Thanks Clare 

I know, I'm desperate to say " she really is a lovely dog"... Then I think just move on!!! 

Ok will def drop the "it's ok Molly" and be much more confident and see how that goes. I think I too will start putting her on the lead when a dog approaches , I've only ever done this if the other dog is on the lead although perhaps I should be anyway given her recent reactions. 

It's not always the other dog that is at fault though, sometimes it's a timid dog that I can see doing no wrong but I will examine much more closely the signs. 

Will definitely practice the "watch" also...I'm sure she'll bed good at this as we kind of do it anyway with "look" and use a ball or cheese. The ball is normally a great distraction and she can often pass lots of dogs just focusing in waiting on me throwing it.

So...lots of howework...I think we could hopefully manage controlling the situations but I'd really like her to interact more with the dogs...perhaps I'm asking too much though and should just work on making her fel comfortable and not threatened first. 

What's interesting is that if another dog barks at her or lunges towards her, she won't react. Is Obi like that?

xxx



fairlie said:


> If she is sweet and obedient then I would try not to stress about this too much. Dogs are excellent communicators and she'll learn to tone down the back off signals on her own. Walking her where she likes to go best, walking her with dogs she likes and trusts and keeping a lighthearted approach will all help. I think your dad is right!


Oh I hope you're right 

I'm never sure whether to say "no" to her when she reacts or just ignore and move on 

Anyway...thank you all for your advice, will let you know how we get on!!!! 

Also bought the book..."Feisty Fido (Molly's new nickname ) ... For the lead reactive dog"...although our issues extend beyond the lead 

It looks good though...

xxx


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh Mairi, breath and try not to worry too much.

Don't say 'No' if she reacts, just praise her like mad for focusing on you and not being feisty. Pockets full of liver (yum) 

I'm with Clare, people should not let their uncontrolled dogs barrel up to other dogs. With mine I keep them with me, unless Iknow the approaching dogs in which case I send them on with 'Ok go and say hello'. That is the theroy - Kiki is so desperate to say hello to everyone - more people than dogs -that sometimes I have to put her on lead to stop her doodle dashing up to say hello.

If Molly is with her little JR friend (I did remember that she had one, I think) does she display the same behaviour?

I would do lots of on lead off lead walking - so that she does not associate another dog's approach with having her lead back on.

As she loves her ball could you maybe teach her a new ball game. Put her on her lead, put the ball behind you and then walk forwards with her. When you've gone a little way let her off the lead and encourage her to go back and fetch her ball. Inzi loves this game and no longer needs to be on lead - we can walk about quater of a mile before I send her back and the whole way she dances by my side willing me to give her the go back command. 

You could also try scattering a little food around on the floor by Molly when you spot a dog in the distance heading your way - the trick is to just scatter a little so that she has eaten it all before the other dog gets close, but it means that with her head down and no eye contact towards the other dog she is giving off a calming signal that might help the meeting be more relaxed.

Have to say I think that it is fine for a dog to say 'leave me alone' if another dog is bothering them, for the most part this behaviour does not escalate, the other dog just backs off. Does Molly give a shake after being 'feisty'?


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## Skyesdog (Jun 7, 2012)

Marzi - they are great suggestions. I will definitely try that ball game, I think Lola would love it. 

Mairi - I know Lola is really sociable and friendly but lately she is developing this snippy thing too, honestly!! The other day in the park she had her ball and another dog approached her, so she dropped her ball and did these darts between her ball and the other dog yapping the whole time - and she never normally barks! Maybe we just need to organise another coffee, I mean dog walk, soon to socialise them both some more 😉


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## Skyesdog (Jun 7, 2012)

PS. Molly is such a little sweetheart, I am sure she is just giving them warming shots rather than having any actual intent to hurt x


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## Jill L (Nov 2, 2012)

I can see you've had lots of helpful replies already. Just to add - I was checking out Adaptil products in advance of bonfire night and part of the blurb suggests that lots of dogs go through a second fearful stage at about 18months. So along with all the training techniques an Adaptil collar might help. They're only effective for about a month before you have to replace them, but they do help in stressful situations for a lot of dogs.


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## Sue T (Aug 1, 2012)

Hi Mairi. I have read this thread with great interest. The post could well have been written about Lucy - now 14 months. Like Molly she is reserved around other dogs and always has been from 10 weeks. If dogs rush at her when she is on lead she hates it and spins on the lead. She will then put her bottom firmly on the ground and will not be sniffed and won't move. I have also reacted with dog owners over this as it can completely spoil the walk, and I do wonder if Lucy remembers the incident for another time. I am now trying a different approach by actually slackening the lead when the dog approaches so that I do not create a tension, and trying to distract by talking to her. It is work in progress. She is absolutely fine with dogs she knows and will let then sniff and loves a good play with them.


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Marzi said:


> Oh Mairi, breath and try not to worry too much.
> 
> Don't say 'No' if she reacts, just praise her like mad for focusing on you and not being feisty. Pockets full of liver (yum)
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for this Marzi, great advice 

Will definitely try the distraction techniques with the ball and will also pop her on the lead when a strange dog approaches ...I'm going to have to look a lot closer to spot any triggers and also see if there's any pattern to this feistiness. 

I'm sure she does shake after it, not sure if every time or not though, will keep an eye out for this too. 

With the sniffing business , there are times when she will give warnings first, ie sit down, then turn to the dog not growling on several occasions, if they still don't get the message then she growls. Other times though she goes straight to the freezing position then growls at them. I always says to the owners that she doesn't live being sniffed. 

With regards to her JRT friend , no she doesn't display any of these behaviours. She is all over her like a rash... I'm so thankful she has her as she's like a completey different dog and absolutely loves playing with her...none of us get a look in when 'Roxie' is around. She actually verges upon annoying as she doesn't give her peace on walks and chases her constantly . 

When they're lying down for a break Molly always does her best to get close to Roxie and tries to lick her face etc...Roxie isn't quite as keen on this affection and often wriggles away but I'm sure she secretly loves the attention!! 

There was one incident when Roxie came to my parents house and lifted one of Molly's toys and Molly let out a big growl which surprised us all as she'll always share her ball with her no problem out on walks. 

I've always thought Roxie (who is a year older) is the pack leader but I may be wrong. 

Thanks again 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Jill L said:


> I can see you've had lots of helpful replies already. Just to add - I was checking out Adaptil products in advance of bonfire night and part of the blurb suggests that lots of dogs go through a second fearful stage at about 18months. So along with all the training techniques an Adaptil collar might help. They're only effective for about a month before you have to replace them, but they do help in stressful situations for a lot of dogs.


Thank you for this Jill, I may look into the collars too. 

I hope this is a stage that has just set us back a little and with all of everyone's advice we can try and deal with it and move forward. 

Molly is fine with fireworks etc, I hope Cindy is too...although that was last year...things may have changed this year!!  

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sue T said:


> Hi Mairi. I have read this thread with great interest. The post could well have been written about Lucy - now 14 months. Like Molly she is reserved around other dogs and always has been from 10 weeks. If dogs rush at her when she is on lead she hates it and spins on the lead. She will then put her bottom firmly on the ground and will not be sniffed and won't move. I have also reacted with dog owners over this as it can completely spoil the walk, and I do wonder if Lucy remembers the incident for another time. I am now trying a different approach by actually slackening the lead when the dog approaches so that I do not create a tension, and trying to distract by talking to her. It is work in progress. She is absolutely fine with dogs she knows and will let then sniff and loves a good play with them.


Thank you for responding Sue 

I'm sorry to hear your walks have been a little stressful too. 
I think other owners only care that their dog is 'friendly' therefore any problems that may incur can solely be attributed to your dog. ....

"He's a big softy really"
"He only wants to say hello"

I hope your new methods work and Lucy feels a little more comfortable on her walks...I know how much walking you do... It's the one thing we should really love about dog ownership...I don't want it to be spoiled. 

Good luck.... 

xxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Skyesdog said:


> Mairi - I know Lola is really sociable and friendly but lately she is developing this snippy thing too, honestly!! The other day in the park she had her ball and another dog approached her, so she dropped her ball and did these darts between her ball and the other dog yapping the whole time - and she never normally barks! Maybe we just need to organise another coffee, I mean dog walk, soon to socialise them both some more &#55357;&#56841;


Yes Nadine , a coffee (I mean walk ) soon def sounds like a plan ... Molly is fine with Lola and it'd be lovey if they were good friends... Molly's lacking numbers in this department 

xxx


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## Skyesdog (Jun 7, 2012)

Cool, I'll text you some dates tmrw xxx


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## Sue T (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for your post Mairi. I problem shared is a problem halved so to speak! Like you I am hoping that it is a stage. At the moment she doesn't like children running up to her either so I am going to use some of the distraction techniques advised on this post.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

A properly socialized dog will pick up another dogs back off signal as they approach. Otherwise how would old, infirm and shy dogs have a chance? I am all for letting the ones who have not learned this lesson yet be treated to a growl and a snap.

However with children this obviously cannot apply, simply too dangerous. I once had a new client, a profoundly autistic boy, outside a water treatment facility which I was fairly sure was dog free. Suddenly two off leash dogs approached and he rushed at them. The owner had a poor recall which made matters worse because the dogs likely picked up the fear in her voice. I got to the boy in time and the dogs owner was very apologetic, as was I, but it could have been bad. If I had a young dog that was overly fearful of children I'd get a personal dog trainer and look into thunder jackets and possible anti anxiety medication while I worked intensively with it about this issue. I might get one of those soft muzzles in the meantime just to be safe.


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

Beau is the same but I do the same as Clare (Obi) and make her focus on me. Where I walk her most of the time I know a lot of the dogs and know which ones to avoid. Off lead she isn't too bad as is in love with her tennis ball so will ignore nearly every dog around her whilst I have it as a distraction as she focuses on this and not the other dog. She doesn't like bigger dogs sniffing her bottom (smaller not a problem) and will yelp/cry and snap at them but again this is mostly when on her lead. If a dog runs up to her I get her to focus on me and hold her ball near my face so she has to look at me whilst looking at the ball. After being diagnosed with meningitis the first time I avoided every dog around as she didn't like being jumped on as I think she thought she may get hurt and had been in enough pain and so would snap and chase after them so I didn't dare let her off the lead. I also tied a yellow ribbon to her collar and lead (Yellow Dog ie a dog wearing something yellow warns others that this dog doesn't like interaction with other dogs and so to leave him/her alone) and mostly people did leave her alone as knew the sign but it has become more well known now due to facebook etc. Once she had started to recover from her illness I took the ribbon off as didn't want her to not interact with any other dogs but I try to only allow her to play with dogs I am fairly sure about. The only time she doesn't focus on me now is when she has had enough of playing with her ball and so takes herself off to where the car is parked (have to park next to the field and if the space has been taken I put her on the lead when I see the signs that she is tired), drops her ball down and lays next to it until I get to her as she knows she will get a drink and treat. I hope Molly gets better with training soon as she is far too pretty to be a social outcast :hug:


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