# Enough is enough



## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

For anyone who is interested here are my thoughts on the post of the following thread http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=4707

We as a couple, Stephen and I came onto this forum as Cockapoo owners and didn't feel the need hide the fact that we are also breeders. We have met some smashing people via this medium and have had a valuable insight into what really happens with our puppies after they leave us a 8 weeks old. We have learned so much and are very thankfully for that insight.

So confident were we in the balanced view of the Cockapoo world that was portrayed in ILMC that we posted a link to ILMC on our website home page. To date I believe this link has resulted in 14 referrals and new members for ILMC. 

I understand the healthy need for open discussion and constructive criticism in most aspects of life and this forum offers such a platform. For that to be successful it relies on the members behaving in an adult and civil manner regardless of their views or opinions. What I am very disappointed about is that over the past few months it has become apparent on ILMC that whilst the majority of members are absolutely appropriate, there are a handful who break these common courtesy codes and revert to group bullying behaviour that is more commonly witnessed in a girls school playground. This behaviour makes the ILMC a very unpleasant arena to be in from time to time, and I am not the first to state this.

In the above mentioned thread Wellerfeller made a direct and open criticism to Stephen personally, which was in effect a mis-quote from a page on the CCGB. The CCGB is not Stephen's club and neither was the page written by him. Can you then wonder why Stephen took this personally, and as a result felt it unjust and made him very angry indeed. I would suggest that a much more appropriate approach would have been to more politely and formally raise this observation, that potentially Wellerfeller had spotted a sentence that could be misunderstood and put it to one of the CCGB Committee Members. They in turn could discuss the matter with the Committee and adjust it if they felt the need to do so.

I am stuck in the middle here as I am disappointed with both sides: with Stephen for having to express his angst at Wellerfeller and at Wellerfeller and her associates for behaving like a gang of school bullies. We are grown-ups here so let us behave like adults.

As a result I no longer feel that I can recommend ILMC as a balanced and just community so I have removed the ILMC link from our JD Website. Those eagle eyed of you will have noticed I have removed Stephens name from our signature and I have asked him not to post on this site again. Essentially this is now my ILMC profile exclusively. 

Lastly, for those who are interested, I have a saying by which I try to live my life and I offer it here:


> ‘Life is too short to wake up with regrets. So love the people who treat you right. Forget about the one’s who don’t. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If it changes your life, let it.


Julia


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi Julie

I think this is a fair outcome. 

Thank you for posting. As Fallon says, let’s move on now. 

Turi


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Julia, there was only one person who can be called a bully on yesterdays thread and it certainly wasn't me! 
I have no associates....just people with a common interest and similar views. I still stand by the fact that in my opinion and it seems many others, the wording in the discussed link is wrong and shouldn't be offered out as advice.
I had no intention of starting anything with anyone, just saw something I think can do a large amount of harm to the dogs and so I wished to express that. It is not bullying, it is a differing opinion. That is all.
A differing opinion is not something to get nasty about, if you would like to tell me where exactly I started bullying and being personal then tell me, because it is obvious to me when the tone of the debate turned. I spoke to Stephen as he posted the link.
I would have posted the same comment to whoever had posted that particular link, I can promise you that. 
I was hoping the tone of my original comment was in a light hearted manner but the reply was definately not in the same tone.
You are right in the fact that life is too short for this and so I will leave the subject now.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

I have to agree with karen,i only saw one form of bullying too and it wasnt karen but agree lets put this matter aside no and move on xxx


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Agreed move on ... life is too short ... and hard enough ... 

I feel the comment made by Karen was helpful advice and not meant with any bad feeling.. thats not Karen's style ... she is a great member of this forum and a friend to all xxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Oh dear how very sad to see people being accused of "bullying" because they happen to share the same opinion. 

Belonging to a few forums I often see people come and go.

I think if you feel a forum is no longer the right one for you then always best to quietly leave.

Obviously you still feel this forum has something to offer you Julia- hence why you are still staying. Although I don't understand why? if you feel you cannot recommend it nor feel it is just or balanced then why do you still want to be part of something you find so disagreeable?


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I agree with the above from Karen. I resent the suggestion of bullying just because members hold a different view to others but I am not going to start the debate again. People can read what has been said and being perfectly civil and articulate adults can make their own minds up about what has gone on.


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I agree Sarah I think most of us on here can see what's been going on.
Sorry to hear your leaving Stephen dx


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Julia, with all due respect, I'm sorry but I have to disagree that there is a group on here bullying anyone! I happen to think Stephen's response to Karen's post was over the top but does that make a bully because I think that? 

We all have to respect that we may not all agree on everything all of the time but that each of us has a right to voice an opinion appropriately. Whether that opinion is shared with another person or others is irrelevant. 

You and Stephen in particular are open to comment on here because you are vocal and active member with strong opinions of your own, you have, until recently, linked your business with this forum and are part of the founder team of the CCGB. If you want to be so prominent then you must accept that not everyone will agree with you and not be so defensive. 

I personally don't like the thought of anyone having to leave here so I hope Stephen doesn't stay away too long. 

I hope everyone can move on from this and try to get along. It's nearly Christmas!! Peace and goodwill to all.


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

When we’re not face-to-face I think it’s easy to throw around the ‘bullying’ remark when in fact it’s a serious accusation. I hope no one on here thinks I’m a bully – I’m not necessarily pink and fluffy P this might all chance when I finally get a Cockapoo…!) but I’m not a bully by any stretch of the imagination and I apologise if this is how I have come across. 

Turi x


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Turi, you are not a bully nor is anyone else on this forum. X


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Turi said:


> When we’re not face-to-face I think it’s easy to throw around the ‘bullying’ remark when in fact it’s a serious accusation. I hope no one on here thinks I’m a bully – I’m not necessarily pink and fluffy P this might all chance when I finally get a Cockapoo…!) but I’m not a bully by any stretch of the imagination and I apologise if this is how I have come across.
> 
> Turi x


You are no bully ... 

This is a cockapoo forum .. no need for any such thing  

As for not being 'pink and fluffy' .. hey don't knock it .. others have used this term ... I see pink and fluffy as staying happy  it doesn't mean you can't have an opinion or strong views ...


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Well if it means being happy then I defintely am! 

Turi x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

ha ha ha ... well I would say I am a fluffy, light hearted and giggly member but if you do ever meet me you will see for yourself I am far from pink and fluffy lol .... 

Stay happy and fun ... just like our poos


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## lola24 (Aug 14, 2011)

Pink and fluffy is very good!! I don't know about others, but i come on here for abit of light-hearted chat, to give advice to others, to get advice from others and to hear about everyone else's poo's (cockapoo's that is!!) 

I think most people come on here for a bit of a wind down to chat about a common interest and share stories/ experiences.

In a situation like this where people are communicating in the written word, things will be taken the wrong way on occasion. I think the ccgb (aswell as the cockapoo-owners club) gives added value to the cockapoo world and i understand that the founders of the club(s) may take comments personally. I do however, think Karens comment was a genuine concern that readers may be misled and wold agree with her concern. I also think that the response she got was disgusting. As has already been said, we are all adults here- no adult i know would dream of responding in such a way.

My heart sinks when threads like this arise- i know i should just not read them but still manage to get sucked in. 

The thing that is so ridiculous about it is that surely we all have the same interests at heart? I don't use forums- i am registered on the odd other but this is the only one i use. If i was a new user i wouldn't dream of participating in a site which came across so bitchy, which is a shame because the one reason i use this forum over others is that it is not usually a nasty atmosphere.

Julia- i don't really understand why you feel it necessary to remove the ILMC link from the JD site but that is your choice. I wouldn't want to be part of a site that not only i would not recommend, but would actively remove my recommendation from- but hey, maybe thats just me. 

Jojo has hit the nail on the head with pink and fluffy, these forums are ment to be for enjoyment so be pink, be fluffy and enjoy!!


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm proud to be pink and fluffy.... in fact the pinker and fluffier the better


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2011)

well i have just bathed and blow dryed lola(indias)! my f2 cockapoo and she is all pink (red) and fluffy my nick name in village is pink poodle but then i do drive a pink fiat 500 limited edition janice xx


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

fallon said:


> Lol mum don't you just and here it is!!! I must say not a car I would pick ha ha ha mum xxxxx


fantastic!!! my daughter would love that car!! xxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> I'm proud to be pink and fluffy.... in fact the pinker and fluffier the better


 Here you go Pink and fluffy!!!


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

OMG it's turned into OWIE


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## mel (Jun 29, 2011)

For what it's worth.....I don't post on this forum a great deal, but I do often refer to it for advice. I have read both this thread and Louise's, and I am really dissappointed that adults choose to behave in such a childish fashion. I have noticed that there is often a lot of "point scoring" that goes on here, and both these threads have degenerated into nothing more than a p*** take.
In my opinion, Stephen directed Louise to an article on another website that he thought she may find helpful. It is common knowledge that it is considered beneficial for the female of the species (whatever they are) to reproduce at least once. I think that 99.9% of people would realise that there is much more to take into consideration when breeding any animal, and an insult to most to suggest otherwise.
I think if anyone wants to question the content of another wbsite it should be directed to that website and not used to cause yet another petty argument on here. I for one feel really quite uncomfortable with it all, and totally agree with Jon Buoy's post on the previous thread.
I too am beginning to question some peoples motives....

Melx


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

I don't think people are taking the pxxs but are merely seeking to lighten the mood - I know I was anyway.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

mel said:


> For what it's worth.....I don't post on this forum a great deal, but I do often refer to it for advice. I have read both this thread and Louise's, and I am really dissappointed that adults choose to behave in such a childish fashion. I have noticed that there is often a lot of "point scoring" that goes on here, and both these threads have degenerated into nothing more than a p*** take.
> In my opinion, Stephen directed Louise to an article on another website that he thought she may find helpful. It is common knowledge that it is considered beneficial for the female of the species (whatever they are) to reproduce at least once. I think that 99.9% of people would realise that there is much more to take into consideration when breeding any animal, and an insult to most to suggest otherwise.
> I think if anyone wants to question the content of another wbsite it should be directed to that website and not used to cause yet another petty argument on here. I for one feel really quite uncomfortable with it all, and totally agree with Jon Buoy's post on the previous thread.
> I too am beginning to question some peoples motives....
> ...


The lovely people on here Mel realise that it is not good practice to breed a bitch before spaying as it is 'good for her' however there are plenty of people out there who do think it is ok or who don't think twice about cashing in on a trend for particular breeds or crosses. When you put information in the public domain you have to expect all sorts of people to read it and therefore have to be doubly sure it is fool proof. The article in question goes on to list the whole thought process that goes into breeding however Wellerfeller was just questioning the wording/inclusion of this particular section. Life for dogs would be great if everyone were thoughtful and caring owners like the people on this forum but in reality this is not the case. Spend time on a large pet forum and along with the good, you come across the otherside of pet owners and people breeding 'accidently' and then joining the forum as their bitch is struggling with the labour and they haven't got a clue what to do. 

There is no point scoring going on and no underlying motives but as owners and breeders who give out advice to the public whether on a forum or via a website we have a duty to ensure that it is the best advice possible. We are not all perfect, we all make mistakes at times but we have a right to question and to ask opinions of others and to disagree. 

As for the pink and fluffy, no one is taking the mickey, it is a way of lightening the mood after a tense afternoon on the forum.


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

You just have to look at the sheer volume of Cockapoo puppies (and that's just one 'breed') for sale on Pets Online, Breeders Online and so on with no mention of health tests, living conditions and so on. 

Turi x


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sezra said:


> The lovely people on here Mel realise that it is not good practice to breed a bitch before spaying as it is 'good for her' however there are plenty of people out there who do think it is ok or who don't think twice about cashing in on a trend for particular breeds or crosses. When you put information in the public domain you have to expect all sorts of people to read it and therefore have to be doubly sure it is fool proof. The article in question goes on to list the whole thought process that goes into breeding however Wellerfeller was just questioning the wording/inclusion of this particular section. Life for dogs would be great if everyone were thoughtful and caring owners like the people on this forum but in reality this is not the case. *Spend time on a large pet forum and along with the good, you come across the otherside of pet owners and people breeding 'accidently' and then joining the forum as their bitch is struggling with the labour and they haven't got a clue what to do. *
> 
> There is no point scoring going on and no underlying motives but as owners and breeders who give out advice to the public whether on a forum or via a website we have a duty to ensure that it is the best advice possible. We are not all perfect, we all make mistakes at times but we have a right to question and to ask opinions of others and to disagree.
> 
> As for the pink and fluffy, no one is taking the mickey, it is a way of lightening the mood after a tense afternoon on the forum.


Absolutely as a member of the largest UK forum for pets for 2 years - I have witnessed many who have come on wanting to breed their pet dog and are clueless- or dog is already pregnant and seen the sheer frustration of the good breeders trying their hardest to give advice and it falling on deaf ears.

Or like I heard the other day of the idiot who decided to breed a puggle ( pug x beagle) but the mum was the pug and basically died giving birth to it's pup 

Or the 16 week old pup recently PTS due to bad breeding

Some of us care about how dogs are breed and are concerned that the right information is being put out there, if that means asking questions of others than so be it.

If it stop one person from making a mistake then IMO that's good.

As for the comment from Mel regarding point scoring???? what on earth is that all about???

There is no point scoring since we all have the best interests of cockapoos at heart.
As there have been now two posts questioning peoples motives whom have responded to the two threads just for some clarity:

*If anyone wants to question my motives well I can tell you what they are:
*
Wanting to provide help and advice to others along with some friendly banter and an odd joke or two and some pink and fluffy stuff 

Oh yes and hours upon hours putting a website together to help promote good breeding of cockapoos and giving help and advice to owners.

Hours upon hours researching about dog related info

Working with others in promoting cockapoo rescue or other oodles for rehoming.

Giving up my time to be a volunteer Cockapoo Breed Advisor for Dogs today magazine.


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Is it just me or when I read the whole breeding info I read it to mean these may be the reasons why someone has bred from their bitch not you must breed from your bitch before she is spayed,also on there were all types of breeders including puppy farms which I'm sure they are not telling you to go out there and become one??


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2011)

In my opinion this thread and louises orginal thread is ...so very obvious that the two main "camps" of breeders/owners and or potential owners are NEVER EVER going to see things the same way , so why keep rubbing each other up the wrong way ! I dont post much but i follow what i can on here and its been one long battle of wills with each camp trying to shout the loudest  , its been full of contridictions and quoating , and plain bitching in some cases ... this is Julie talking Not as a founder member of CCGB ... and another thing i would like to add ,a very sad fact , if you do get a clueless person wanting to breed ..(for the bitch to have one litter , or for money or any other reason !!!) nothing ANYONE says on here will stop them .. I 'm hoping that both groups of people will get over this and lighten up , after all there are lots of bad things happening around us in this world .. so instead of all biting and sniping ..lets get back to smiling and being helpful ....please 

julie x


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I think you've hit the nail on the head Julie,thanks for posting dx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

julieash said:


> In my opinion this thread and louises orginal thread is ...so very obvious that the two main "camps" of breeders/owners and or potential owners are NEVER EVER going to see things the same way , so why keep rubbing each other up the wrong way ! I dont post much but i follow what i can on here and its been one long battle of wills with each camp trying to shout the loudest  , its been full of contridictions and quoating , and plain bitching in some cases ... this is Julie talking Not as a founder member of CCGB ... and another thing i would like to add ,a very sad fact , *if you do get a clueless person wanting to breed ..(for the bitch to have one litter , or for money or any other reason !!!) nothing ANYONE says on here will stop them .. *I 'm hoping that both groups of people will get over this and lighten up , after all there are lots of bad things happening around us in this world .. so instead of all biting and sniping ..lets get back to smiling and being helpful ....please
> 
> julie x


Actually Julie you are wrong there. Whilst it cannot be proven, I had some-one on this forum who wanted to stud their dog out and after information I gave then then reposted to say they will not be doing so.

I have seen others change their minds on other forums when they have received the "right" information.

No you won't stop everyone but it's all about educating people so that they have the full facts, and if one person changes their mind then it's better than none.

I am proud to make a stand to help promote ethical breeding at that is what the cockapoo owners club is all about and I am proud of others who try their hardest to get the message across about breeding and save the lives of many dogs who do not survive pregnancy or the pups/dogs who cannot be sold and end up dumped in rescues etc.......


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

julieash said:


> and another thing i would like to add ,a very sad fact , if you do get a clueless person wanting to breed ..(for the bitch to have one litter , or for money or any other reason !!!) nothing ANYONE says on here will stop them ..


You make a good point here Julie x 

However, I won’t get drawn into any more conversations about point scoring, bullying or gloating. Quite simply, these are the events as I see them. 

- Louise asked for advice regarding breeding from her Cockapoo pet

- Stephen provided a link to breeding on the CCGB website

- Karen questioned the phrasing of one particular section 

- Stephen wrote Karen unpleasant personal messages

- They were posted on the forum by both parties

- Everyone reacted

- Julie started a reconciliatory post

- And then everyone joked about all things pink and fluffy to lighten the mood. 

End of. 

Now can we just put a stop to this please!

Turi x


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Agreed Turi :deadhorse:, I am not sure why people keep cropping up to make more comments about point scoring and motives....I am now questioning their motives :fencing:! :trolls: :talktohand:? Time to move on.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh for Gods sake, get over yourselves. Your wasting so much time, energy and emotion here, defending your corner and bitching. What for....well this site has 6,137 registered members of which probably less than 100 will visit in any one day. The members that visit are already the converted, are asking questions to serve their beloved pet in the best way possible. So you're not going to do too much 'saving' in this arena. Those 'bad' folk we all detest so aren't even going to look in this window. So once and for all stop being so self righteous and get on with something useful.


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## Rufini (Sep 9, 2011)

I joined the forum a few months ago to get advise as a first tiem cockapoo, and dog owner and frankly from the get go I sense there were definately 2 groups of breeders and owners who have very different opinions.
I'm really REALLY sad about all this, I think everyone has their own opinion about things and I just can't understand why people just keep bringing the same things up over and over, on BOTH sides of this arguement. It's been going on for ages!

I don't expect everyone to agree on everything, especially breeders. I mean, the company I work for operates things so differently from my last job! Doesn't mean that each company is doing it 'wrong', it's just different.

I have to say, all I want from this forum is to post endless photos of my little prince, talk about what music I'm listening to and laugh at all the daft stories people post. 

Now, I'm going to look at the photos of Vincent wearing a santa hat and laugh 

p.s I was in a 'political' party at uni called the pink anf fluffy party ;D We campaigned for the SU to serve Angel Delight in the union bar!!!!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Oh my goodness, so sorry Julia you are right....no one looks at this forum who is thinking of getting a puppy or breeding their pet....how stupid of us to want to send out the right message....please forgive me!


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> Oh for Gods sake, get over yourselves. Your wasting so much time, energy and emotion here, defending your corner and bitching. What for....well this site has 6,137 registered members of which probably less than 100 will visit in any one day. The members that visit are already the converted, are asking questions to serve their beloved pet in the best way possible. So you're not going to do too much 'saving' in this arena. Those 'bad' folk we all detest so aren't even going to look in this window. So once and for all stop being so self righteous and get on with something useful.


Julie, what’s the attitude for? What I, and many others, wrote was an attempt to regain a bit of peace on the site! 

I think you’ve made a good business move taking the ILMC icon off your website. JD’s recent posts have been in such poor taste they’d put any prospective purchasers off. 

I am so mad!


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## EG1 (May 14, 2011)

I think you’ve made a good business move taking the ILMC icon off your website. JD’s recent posts have been in such poor taste they’d put any prospective purchasers off. 

I am so mad![/QUOTE]

I don't think you have anything to be mad about Turi, just stop reading this thread and responding and join the rest of us who are biting our tongues like crazy and getting on with life.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> Oh for Gods sake, get over yourselves. Your wasting so much time, energy and emotion here, defending your corner and bitching. What for....well this site has 6,137 registered members of which probably less than 100 will visit in any one day. The members that visit are already the converted, are asking questions to serve their beloved pet in the best way possible. So you're not going to do too much 'saving' in this arena. Those 'bad' folk we all detest so aren't even going to look in this window. So once and for all stop being so self righteous and get on with something useful.


 OMG what a shocking statement to make from a founder member of a club whom is saying they are out to promote ethical breeding 

How on earth do you PROMOTE ethical breeding then if you feel this forum is not a medium to use- yet you feel more than happy to use this forum to promote your club website links and articles.

You are forgetting that there are many people who browse this site for info and not necessarily are members so yes we have a duty to ensure we promote the right message in our posts and clubs.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> OMG what a shocking statement to make from a founder member of a club whom is saying they are out to promote ethical breeding
> 
> How on earth do you PROMOTE ethical breeding then if you feel this forum is not a medium to use- yet you feel more than happy to use this forum to promote your club website links and articles.
> 
> You are forgetting that there are many people who browse this site for info and not necessarily are members so yes we have a duty to ensure we promote the right message in our posts and clubs.


Shirley have you finished. I think it's quite clear that if I had said that I'd just washed my hands, you'd probably tell me that I'd used the wrong soap. I think we're all done here. :talktohand:


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> Shirley have you finished. I think it's quite clear that if I had said that I'd just washed my hands, you'd probably tell me that I'd used the wrong soap. I think we're all done here. :talktohand:


Nope will never finish where the welfare of cockapoos are concerned roud:roud:roud: :ilmc::ilmc::ilmc:

If you tell me what soap you are using yes I might be able to recommend another- being the helpful person that I am. 


and yes agree don't think we have anymore to say as you have clearly made your views crystal clear.


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## Laura(L)Izzie (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm not sure why this had to get so heated :/ It is only two different opinions.

This is just a link I wanted to post that turned out badly which is very upsetting & the owner did not seem to know the full risk she was taking breedig her dog...
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-bree...irst-litter-anyone-had-luck-taking-temps.html

It seems such a shame, but these things can happen & I think we need to promote breeding for what it is & explain all the risks so that first time breeders know exactly how difficult & risky it is as most don't do all the research that they should to know everything & it can end on heart break 

This is the main post you should read...

'hi everyone sorry took a while i couldnt bring myself to right the update she whent to vets had had the jab to bring her on but it didnt work an pups were getting in distress so she had a section.... 10 healthy fat puppies she did them proud vet said shed never seen pups so huge and healthy an the section was best idea as she wouldnt of parted with them ( told u she was HUGE) we whent out while they stiched her up but as we left drying the pups her blood pressure bottomed out, vet injected idrenalin ( sorry about spelling that) straight into her heart... it didnt work and my baby girl passed away on the table! im in bits, completly deverstated! just when we thought we were home an dry not lost a pup an mum was fine it was a massive shock. all pups doing very well at min with there 2 hr feeds. just wish mum would of got to see her gawjus babies thank you everyone for advice a best wishes tho. will post pup pics as soon as im sorted a bit.'


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