# Neutering



## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Hi all,
We have Billy booked in for his neutering on Wednesday, he will be nearly 7 months. 
Had further discussions with hubby who is reluctant to have him done so soon. He has just started to **** his leg a couple of times this week (Billy not hubby!), and we are wondering if we should leave him for another month. Also he has the most amazing personality - has anyone experienced any major change there?
Any words of wisdom or support?
H x


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I am with Hubby on this one. I know its a personal preference with timings of neutering but personally I would give him another 3/4 moths. Just my opinion


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I have no experience of male dogs, but from what I've read, there is a definite case for letting him mature first. I have made that decision with having Izzy spayed. I don't believe that personality changes are the norm either, there is some debate about whether neutering calms a dog down. If you are not having any problems with Billy scenting, then there may not be a pressing need to have his op yet. Good luck with whatever you decide


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

My honest opinion is to speak to your vet ... when to spay or neuter always has a difference of opinion ... and I have read so much on early and late spaying/neutering but really I think it just comes down to what each vet advises and what suits the owner ...

I have lived with a few males dogs in my life (different breeds), some have been neutered young and some neutered late ... no difference in their character at all .. each dog is different and some males do start scent marking which can be rather unpleasant if done in the home ... 

Surely a vet would not neuter early if it would cause your dog any problems ...


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

We have it in our breeder's contract that we cannot spay/neuter before 12 months without good reason and we have to get her permission first! She felt very strongly about dogs being fully mature. Have a look at Stan Rawlinson's website (Dog Listener) and read about neutering on there. It is very informative. Ideally the dog should have been cocking his leg for a month first.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Unfortunately, that difference of opinion extends to vets, sometimes even in the same practice!


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

The web page is www.doglistener.co.uk

It's all a matter of opinion though!


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> We have it in our breeder's contract that we cannot spay/neuter before 12 months without good reason and we have to get her permission first! She felt very strongly about dogs being fully mature. Have a look at Stan Rawlinson's website (Dog Listener) and read about neutering on there. It is very informative. Ideally the dog should have been cocking his leg for a month first.


That's interesting Jane, thanks


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Get a good vet and trust them  lol ...


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Yep agree with the leg cocking ... but dogs can **** at 7 months or earlier ....


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

Afraid I am in the neuter as soon as possible camp. I had my cairn done as soon as the necessary 'equipment' appeared on vets advice. As far as I know the later the neuter the less likely any posetive effects on behaviour which is fine if your dog is ok but possibly buy the time they start to show any unwanted behaviour the operation won't change that. (Also many men you discuss this with are quite often reluctant to have their dogs 'done' must be man thing!)


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Pollypiglet said:


> Afraid I am in the neuter as soon as possible camp. I had my cairn done as soon as the necessary 'equipment' appeared on vets advice. As far as I know the later the neuter the less likely any posetive effects on behaviour which is fine if your dog is ok but possibly buy the time they start to show any unwanted behaviour the operation won't change that. (Also many men you discuss this with are quite often reluctant to have their dogs 'done' must be man thing!)


Yes its a man thing ...   sorry laughing here ....


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> We have it in our breeder's contract that we cannot spay/neuter before 12 months without good reason and we have to get her permission first! She felt very strongly about dogs being fully mature. Have a look at Stan Rawlinson's website (Dog Listener) and read about neutering on there. It is very informative. Ideally the dog should have been cocking his leg for a month first.


Just out of interest what action would the breeder take if you did decide to break the terms of your 'contract'. I would say once your dog is paid for the breeder has no rights in law and I would suggest any attempt to take civil court action whatever that may be would be cost prohibitive. Maybe a solicitor on the forum who could clarify?
P.S. This may explain why some breeders sell puppies desexed as this is the only surefire way to ensure no breeding!


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## francesjl (Mar 24, 2011)

We had Scamp done just before Xmas when he was 17mths - it was a personal choice as I wanted him to be ' grown - up ' . As far as his behaviour goes it can be up to 3-4 mths before the testosterone gets out of the system, so still waiting to see if there is any change.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Pollypiglet said:


> Just out of interest what action would the breeder take if you did decide to break the terms of your 'contract'. I would say once your dog is paid for the breeder has no rights in law and I would suggest any attempt to take civil court action whatever that may be would be cost prohibitive. Maybe a solicitor on the forum who could clarify?
> P.S. This may explain why some breeders sell puppies desexed as this is the only surefire way to ensure no breeding!


I think you are right a puppy contract is not a legal document ... however I think some breeders like to put in place a type of agreement for the sake of the puppy well being .. lets face it owning a puppy/dog is a big commitement  ... I am considering doing an agreement with my puppies but nothing heavy just a general agreement


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

A friend of mine has a Cockapoo who is 13 months. He still isnt done although she was tempted to neuter him when he was going through 'adolescence'. She just stuck with the training and he has come through it wonderfully. I am not sure when she will neuter him but he is lovely and she doesn't feel any need to rush.  I am firmly with the neuter later camp for boys and girls . Which reminds me I need to visit the vet regarding Daisy's timings for her spay


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi Sue

I agree, the contract does seem a bit strong! Especially as I had a real hassle getting all the pedigree and health info!

Stan Rawlinson suggests that 10-27 months is the ideal time.

As far as behaviour is concerned, as a dog behaviourist, he said he sees far more behaviour problems from early neutering as he feels it can keep them in 'puppy mode' for the rest of their life, with short attention spans, etc. Also, if a male dog is neutered very young - well before 6 months - they can emit a female smell for the rest of their lives which makes intact males want to hump them! However, this is so controversial and I wouldn't want to sound against anyone who decided that earlier was best for them.


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## Dexter1011 (Aug 28, 2011)

Dexter is now 6 months and cocking his leg. The vet was happy to do him but I was holding out until 10 months after reading advice from the internet. I am slowly changing my mind and thinking of having him done at 8 months as he is humping my leg a lot and sometimes other dogs and I don't want a dog to turn on him or for this to get a habit for him if I leave him doing it for another four months. If he wasn't doing this I would leave him though.


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Dexter1011 said:


> Dexter is now 6 months and cocking his leg. The vet was happy to do him but I was holding out until 10 months after reading advice from the internet. I am slowly changing my mind and thinking of having him done at 8 months as he is humping my leg a lot and sometimes other dogs and I don't want a dog to turn on him or for this to get a habit for him if I leave him doing it for another four months. If he wasn't doing this I would leave him though.


Im sure Buddy went through a stage of humping but apart from my daughters leg (but i think she winds him up to do it!!) he's kinda stopped doing it now and he's 8 mths now,prehaps give it another mth to see if he starts to carms down??


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes, this is my only worry if this happens but am wondering if there is a way to distract them from humping - rather like jumping up - or is the instinct just too strong! One of my friends booked her dog in from the first moment he humped and I wondered if this was too hasty and she could have persevered with some form of distraction training.


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Thank you all for your speedy responses as usual. 
Although I know the pros and cons and that there are definately 'two camps' of thought on this, I am sure that I want Billy to be done at some point as we have no plans to stud him.

It's just this timing issue and the problem that men seem to have totally different views (it's not as if I have booked them both in!!). Billy has cocked his leg a few times over the last week or so and I am swaying towards giving him 4-6 weeks and then having it done.
Behaviour wise we really don't have any issues so wouldn't want to 'calm him' in any way - on the other hand I dont want to wait for any issues to arise and then rush to get him done.

I'm sure my vet will support me postponing it if I'm unsure. 
H x


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> Yes, this is my only worry if this happens but am wondering if there is a way to distract them from humping - rather like jumping up - or is the instinct just too strong! One of my friends booked her dog in from the first moment he humped and I wondered if this was too hasty and she could have persevered with some form of distraction training.


To be honest i brought Buddy a cuddly toy and he seemed to like humping that for a while but yes i would try and distract him as its not polite behaviour,he's 8 mths now and i cant remember the last time he tryed to hump anything so i do think the urge to do it isnt as great??


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Hfd said:


> Thank you all for your speedy responses as usual.
> Although I know the pros and cons and that there are definately 'two camps' of thought on this, I am sure that I want Billy to be done at some point as we have no plans to stud him.
> 
> It's just this timing issue and the problem that men seem to have totally different views (it's not as if I have booked them both in!!). Billy has cocked his leg a few times over the last week or so and I am swaying towards giving him 4-6 weeks and then having it done.
> ...


Personally i think you will know when the time is right,i must say im just not looking forward to the 10 days or so with out a walk !

Im in the wait till their 10mths + camp but im getting Buddy done when he's about 9 mths plus only because it will fit in with us and holidays etc so in the end do whats right for you .

Good luck dx


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

That's what I was thinking! We too have holiday booked when he will be 11 months, so I'm thinking would it be better before? Worried about marking, etc in holiday home! - although if he does start doing this before, I've read that neutering doesn't solve this automatically. 

We've had a huge cuddly teddy for Biscuit since we brought him home and he has always humped it - but up until now I've since this as a dominance thing rather than actual humping. I've put it in the garage now so as not to encourage the real thing!!


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> The web page is www.doglistener.co.uk
> 
> It's all a matter of opinion though!


Stan has a daughter called Louise - she runs puppy classes and I think Stan makes a couple of appearances. She also runs a doggy creche - we're booked in for both!


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> That's what I was thinking! We too have holiday booked when he will be 11 months, so I'm thinking would it be better before? Worried about marking, etc in holiday home! - although if he does start doing this before, I've read that neutering doesn't solve this automatically.
> 
> We've had a huge cuddly teddy for Biscuit since we brought him home and he has always humped it - but up until now I've since this as a dominance thing rather than actual humping. I've put it in the garage now so as not to encourage the real thing!!


Buddy has marked a couple of times but to be honest as a pup he never really had many accidents around the house when toilet training so i think weve got away lightly ha ha ,he cocked his leg up my curtain which i was shocked at but i was able to wash them so it was ok.

Sometimes they use humping to carm themseleves down when their young ,so i think thats prob why Buddy dosnt seem to do it as much now when we come back from a walk he just goes and chews his stag bar and lies down now.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

I am in the camp for later neutering preferably 12 months +.The decision lies with the owners and is one that sees two camps. Best thing is to gain as much info as you can and decide what your feel is the right thing for your dog. Info on neutering can be found on on Owners website under cockapoo care.

Regarding humping- neutering can decrease this but neutered dogs can still hump.

Dogs hump for many reasons: Sexual, dominance over other dogs and as a way to release pent up excitement.


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## pauleady (Mar 11, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Personally i think you will know when the time is right,i must say im just not looking forward to the 10 days or so with out a walk !
> 
> Im in the wait till their 10mths + camp but im getting Buddy done when he's about 9 mths plus only because it will fit in with us and holidays etc so in the end do whats right for you .
> 
> Good luck dx


Just had Bailey done at 11 months. He has healed very well but it so hard not letting run. He is going stir crazy at the moment and doesn't like the lampshade round his head! Roll on Friday when the stitches come out and we can run and play!


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes, I think the lack of walking must be hard! Especially when they have got to that age. That's the bit I'm not looking forward to!


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

My vets reason for early spaying/neutering was the protection against cancerous growths in later years apparently 70% less chance of mammery cancer in bitches if spayed early. At the end of the day the vet is probably the best person to seek advice from.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

The trouble is that all vets seem to vary their opinions. It's such a controversial issue that I think each owner has to make their own informed decision. A friend had her dog neutered at 4 months saying her vet said it would reduce the risk of testicular cancer - but the risk is quoted to be less than 1%. However, it is suggested that the chance of getting bone cancer from neutering that early is higher along with a whole host of potential orthopaedic problems. I think research has to be done by the owner first and they should then make their own decision based on this.


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## Bodger (Oct 9, 2011)

We had Bodger done at 6 months. We thought about it carefully and did consider, not having it done at all, leaving it until he was older and in the end we decided we would have it done. We also reasoned it might be better to have it done at six months as this is what our vet recommends. I also read that the only behaviour that will change is that which is testosterone led. So not all behaviours will be improved - if that is the aim of the neutering. In our case we did not have any behaviour issues with Bodger so that was not the motivation.

As his testicles were small (because of his age) there was much less to remove. He healed well. Is now fully recovered and is the same cute little fluffkin he was before.

I can, though, understand owners reluctance because we didn't like the idea of putting him through this and to be honest we have little experience of male dogs, so we based our decision on some trusted advice. I think it's a difficult decision and there are so many views.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

It is not something I had given much thought to, which is probably wrong as I would like a boy pup, I have been friends for many years with a lady who shows Irish Setters, she has always had male dogs between 3 and 5 at any one time, all in an average size house and as show dogs they aren't neutered, she only ever had one with dominance probs, so I honestly didn't expect to have my dog neutered unless he showed behaviour probs that it could improve. I wouldn't be keen to sign anything to say I would, as I feel it should be my choice after the dog was mine. Am I unusual to feel this way?


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

No you're not unusual. I felt uncomfortable signing our contract that stated that we mustn't neuter before 12 months without permission first. It doesn't feel like he's totally our dog in some way and that the breeder still has a hold on him and yet other and more important things about his health were not considered properly before he was bred. We'll try and hang on but if it turns out to be in his interest to get him neutered earlier, then we will definitely consider that.


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> No you're not unusual. I felt uncomfortable signing our contract that stated that we mustn't neuter before 12 months without permission first. It doesn't feel like he's totally our dog in some way and that the breeder still has a hold on him and yet other and more important things about his health were not considered properly before he was bred. We'll try and hang on but if it turns out to be in his interest to get him neutered earlier, then we will definitely consider that.


Ive never heard of anyone having to sign a contract before?? Anyway how would she know when you had him done??


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## Laney (Aug 7, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> Unfortunately, that difference of opinion extends to vets, sometimes even in the same practice!


Sadly this was the case at my vets so they were no help at all. Only 2 vets, small practice. One said 10 months to a year, other said 6 months, no later. We had him done at 10 months. No change in personality that I can detect


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## Laney (Aug 7, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Personally i think you will know when the time is right,i must say im just not looking forward to the 10 days or so with out a walk !
> 
> 
> Good luck dx


Rocky was going out for a walk the very next day, just not off-lead. He still very much looked forward to his walks. The worst thing was trying to keep him from jumping around like a lunatic at home...walks were a doddle in comparison


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## Laney (Aug 7, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Personally i think you will know when the time is right,i must say im just not looking forward to the 10 days or so with out a walk !
> 
> 
> Good luck dx


Rocky was going out for a walk the very next day, just not off-lead. He still very much looked forward to his walks. The worst thing was trying to keep him from jumping around like a lunatic at home...walks were a doddle in comparison


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Ive never heard of anyone having to sign a contract before?? Anyway how would she know when you had him done??


She wouldn't

However, we'll try and hang on and see how we go.


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## Hfd (Aug 19, 2011)

Just a little update - we did cancel Billy's appointment at the vets, in part because I had to go to London with work for a couple of days and also due to being unsure. 
We have however booked him in for 1st March when he will be nearly 8 months. Feeling happier with the decision this time so will be going ahead then....unless anything comes up!
H x


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