# Post Season Blues?



## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Miss Lills finally finished her season a few days ago and is now allowed to run free with her doggie friends and chase squirrels to her hearts content.

The only problem is, she really doesn't want to...

She will run a little and seems to enjoy herself. She has even chased a few of the little furry tree climbers (but still runs round the tree looking for them rather than looking up ). For the most part though she sticks close to me and ignores other doggies, even those she normally has a good chase with.

For the most part, she seems tired and content to lounge around at home. She is not as playful as she was and is now using her favourite toy as a head rest rather than chasing it around.









Food wise, she veers between seeming hungry and not really being interested at all... On one occasion (yesterday) she vomited part of her food up, undigested.

I don't think she is starting a phantom pregnancy - there is no 'nest making', hoarding of toys or anything else that would indicate this and her teats are slowly going back to normal.

Have any of your poos behaved like this post season? And if so, how long did it last and what did you do to help?

I feel so sorry for her!!


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Poor Lily. I know *nothing* at all about this but I do wonder if she will pick up after she is spayed and the hormones settle down. When do you intend on having her done, if at all?


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

She is a young lady now. She will go back to play, but she won't feel the need to indulge in it so much. Don't worry. She is fine. I have noticed a huge difference in Phoebe since her season. She just calmed down. She still plays but it's not as frenetic or for as long. Enjoy your young lady.


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you Marilyn and Fairlie for responding. I confess I'm still a little worried about her though.

We have had more vomiting today and she is definitely off her food. She is drinking, although not much. She does not have diarrhoea.

Most of the time she is sleeping. In the little park we go to she is mostly just standing around and, as another doggie owner who knows her said today, she seems kind of lost in her own little world. If she were human, you would probably call it depressed.

She will walk if I do, and even run a little, but seems to prefer to stay very close by.

All in all, her behaviour is different. I guess its true that she is no longer a little puppy but her behaviour is more that of a much, much older dog - not an adolescent.

Being a bit of a worry wart, I have been reading up on the internet the possible causes of all of this. One thing that came up is pyometra although its apparently not really diagnosed till about a month after the end of a season and rarer in such a young dog. I really hope its not something as serious as this. I'm wondering whether I should be taking her to see the vet or whether I should wait a little longer and see if she settles? I'm intending to not try to feed her tonight and to give her something a little more bland (sweet potato and chicken) than her normal food (Nutriment) tomorrow.

Thanks again for any advice / reassurance. She is such a precious little thing and I'd hate for her to be suffering.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I have never had an entire bitch but friends have and they have not changed in character this much. I would take her for a quick vet checkup if she is no happier in a day or two.

Hope she is OK.


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

If she had pyometra, there would most likely be a discharge from her vulva and it would have a bad smell to it. In any case I would take her for a check up if she's not back to normal soon. Does she have a fever?


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks all

Miss Lills still doesn't seem herself, is very sleepy and clingy and still off her food.

I've booked her in to see the vet later today. Fingers crossed I'm just being neurotic!


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I hope you're being neurotic too, but better safe than sorry. Please let us know what the vet says.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Hopefully she is okay. Nina has had 3 seasons and she has never been affected that badly.


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you everyone!

I took Miss Lills to my vet today and he, like me, initially thought that she might have a womb infection. She would absolutely not allow him to take blood. Even with two of us holding her she wriggled and squealed and made it absolutely impossible. I have never seen her like this: we play so many paw games (which hand? high five, give paw) and I make sure that I play with all of her paws everyday (which she normally loves!!). I would have thought having a blood test would be a doddle. 

So in the absence of a blood test, her temperature is normal and although she is off her food she is not drinking excessively or showing any other signs of a fever. 

After my first post about this, I noticed that her teats lower down are actually still quite swollen and a bit 'lumpy' underneath. So her vet suggested that she is likely having a rather unusual reaction to the hormonal changes that her season has brought with it. She doesn't really show other signs of a phantom pregnancy though (no nesting, toy mothering etc.) although she does seem down and bit lost. She is also hyper clingy!

The vet suggested that she should be back to normal in a couple of weeks and that whilst it would be possible to intervene with hormone treatment, he thought it would be better to let it run its course. At this point, I tend to agree.

We've left it that I'll keep a close eye on her. If her food intake decreases further and her water intake increases (or she shows other signs of a fever) then I have antibiotics to give. Other than that, it seems that its just a question of cuddling as much as possible - which isn't very hard but seems to be about all she really wants to do.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Hope she is happier soon and is not going to have a phantom pregnancy


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Port little lady. Hoping she gets back to normal soon!


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Poor Miss Lilly... hormones are miserable things.
If she does have a phantom pregnancy I think you would not expect to see nesting type behaviour until 6 weeks or so time.
I think that it would be wise to be on the watch for her forming special attachments to toys or cushions and try and distract her from feeling at all mumsy - try and keep jolly and upbeat yourself and we'll all just hope that this is a blip in Miss Lilly's hormonal cycle and soon she'll rediscover her bounce.
Years ago on the farm I almost lived on, one of the labs was diagnosed by a vet as having false pregnancy symptoms and the owner was advised to up her exercise and keep her very busy. Poor dog was kicked out to run behind the landrover, kept very busy picking up rabbits and pigeons and generally not remotely mollycoddled. fast forward 9 weeks and she had a litter of 11 dalmation x pups (a dally from the village had obviously got her when she was in season.) The pups were sadly all born dead as the first pup was big and got stuck and as no one knew Tolly was pregnant no one was watching her, she was in the kennel.. she had to have an emergency Cesarean but it was too late for the pups. She was very poorly, but did recover.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

That story is tragic. Poor dog and poor pups. I hope the vet never made that mistake again.

Did the vet do a pregnancy test on Lily to be sure?


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks again everyone for replying...

Marzi - your response scares me a little even though I am 100% sure that she cannot be pregnant: she is with me 24/7 except for one day a week when she is with the sitter / trainer who always has her on a long line rather than allowing her to run freely. She is very experienced with dogs and I am sure also very responsible.

The only contact Miss Lill's had with a male during her season was with the little neutered maltese who couldn't quite reach...

Fairlie - they didn't do a pregnancy test as it was impossible to get a sample from her and the vet had to give up in the end rather than risk poking her eye out with the needle. Its the first time she has had to have a blood test since I've had her and I was very surprised by her reaction as per my previous post. She is definitely not a brave little dog!!

Today, we've been to the park. She happily chased a ball for a little while and sniffed around in her usual way. For the most part though she is stuck to me like glue and really disinterested in other dogs. Now, she is back to sleeping, having refused her breakfast:









Her nipples are no more swollen than they were at the height of her season and the vet suggested that if she were pregnant, they would not actually swell up until later on.

I am thinking that this probably will turn in to a full blown phantom pregnancy. And I'm dreading it to be honest...


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Did the vet try to take blood from a back leg. Sometimes dogs that are really scared and struggling when they try to take it from a front leg are a lot more calm when the blood is taken from the back leg as they can't see what's coming at them.


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks for the tip. No, he didn't. But in reality, she couldn't have seen anyway as I was holding her head against me with my hand positioned as a shield.... She was fine whilst they were cutting back her hair, but as soon as the tourniquet thing went on she started trying to get away...


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Do you hope to breed her? If not, what happens if you have her spayed at this point? Does it stop the phantom pregnancy? How long does a phantom pregnany last?

As for the difficult blood tests I have been through that with some children I've worked with. The real pros work at the children's hospital, they can distract and restrain a terrified child and get blood before the child can react. Maybe there is a dog hospital near you that will manage better?


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Miss Lilly said:


> Thanks for the tip. No, he didn't. But in reality, she couldn't have seen anyway as I was holding her head against me with my hand positioned as a shield.... She was fine whilst they were cutting back her hair, but as soon as the tourniquet thing went on she started trying to get away...


It was probably hurting her. I think an assistant should have helped and just hold off the vein with his/her finger and Lilly may have been ok then. As Fairlie suggests, perhaps another vet.


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Good news! Miss Lills and I went for a fairly long walk today in the sunshine and she was a little more active than the past few days. Still no interest in other doggies and for the most part she was actively trying to avoid them. She is being very clingy... So much so that if I stop and kneel down for example she will come quickly back and sit right next to me without me even calling her.

But she did at least seem to enjoy herself a bit today:

















... and as a bonus has eaten almost all of her dinner 

Fairlie: I don't think its possible (or at least a good idea) to undertake a spay at this point. Miss Lill's hormones will be all over the place and removing her womb/ovaries would likely be a huge shock to her system as well as much moer risky due to enlarged blood vessels etc. As I understand it, spay surgery can itself be followed by a phantom pregnancy purely because of the hormonal changes. And as Marzi says, hormones are miserable things!!

Regarding the failed blood test, I am sure that something probably was hurting her or at least uncomfortable and I agree that simply using a finger on the vein makes a lot of sense. I like my vet though: he's pretty sensible and very experienced. A bit old school and I've known him almost my whole life. He used to look after my childhood pets and later on, my mothers cat. Many people that I know around here have changed over to him from other vets and he is generally held in very high regard. He is also, together with a group of other vets in the area, the founder of an emergency clinic which can be accessed by their patients around the clock and which is not very far from us at all. 

Almost all other vets in the local area are group practices (i.e. they have several practices) and at least two are renowned for ordering a plethora of unnecessary tests, especially if they know that you have insurance. I don't, unless absolutely necessary, want to put Miss Lills through that kind of treatment.

I'll see how she gets on over the next couple of days. Any change for the worse and we are straight back to the vets, regardless whether its day or night time.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Glad to hear she has been a bit happier today 

Don't worry too much if she does have a phantom pregnancy, one of my friends dogs had a couple before she was speyed. They needed to catch her at just the right point between seasons to make sure her hormones were as neutral as possible


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

It sounds like she is doing better and it sounds like your vet is a definite keeper.


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Oh good, poor Miss Lilly  Glad to hear things are improving.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Good that Miss Lilly had a happy walk - hopefully she'll be perkier and happier from now on... 
I think it was Jedicrazy's Roo who had a phantom pregnancy and I'm sure she was prescribed a very effective treatment when the symptoms persisted...


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Well, its been a few days now and so I thought I'd update.

Miss Lills still seems a bit down in the dumps. She's happy enough when we're out and seems to enjoy chasing her ball for a little while. But she has no interest in playing with other doggies and seems positively scared of larger ones. She is still very clingy and once home, she tends to just curl up on the sofa and go to sleep.

Her teats are still swollen on one side but I think its getting a bit better (I'm not sure). She's eating reasonably well and hasn't vomited. Last night I was woken to the sound of her crunching a chicken foot next to me in bed 

There is no indication (thankfully) of her having a temperature so we haven't had to make use of the antibiotics we had from the vet. Whether this turns into a full blown phantom remains to be seen. Thus far, she is absolutely disinterested in her toys (apart from plastic bottles and the odd ball) and there is no nesting / mothering behaviour at all. The vet did say that if it does progress to a phantom pregnancy then help can be given in the form of hormones but that it would for now be better just to wait and let her try and get over it by herself.

I really hope that this is not just the adult Miss Lilly that I'm seeing. I miss her playfulness, mischief and joyfulness so much and I'm not able to get much work done with all the cuddling we are having to do!!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

sorry not experienced with bitches so can't give any idea's or advice, I know what you mean about missing the playfulness though, Dudley has calmed down a lot - but he is 3 and it has been a gradual thing really over the last year I would say so it is not the same really, although he is still a bit of a loon at times, he still charges over to meet his doggy pals and has a run around with them but doesn't playfight really in the park anymore, although he still does with some of the visiting dogs, but most walks after 10 mins or so of playtime with the other dogs he will stay closer to me now as we walk around. Having said that I had him in a pets at Home shop recently and I child said something about him and her mum said he is only a baby, the girl said he was big (she was in a buggy) and the mum said yes he looks quite big but is still a baby. ! I didn't have the heart to say he wasn't, I wonder if she thought he was a larger doodle pup, it was probably because she would have expected an older dog to be behaving better! - he still wants to jump up to say hello to everyone so I was holding him close as they went by.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

That does sound to me like she is still off colour and heading for a phantom pregancy - I hope she soon settles down and is back to her happy bouncy self.


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

I really hope that Miss Lilly manages to sort out her hormones herself, but if these symptoms persist I would tame her back to the vet pronto and see if she needs some chemical help.... I'm sure you've looked at old threads on here relating to phantom pregnancy, this one may be of particular interest just because of info re phantom pregnancies possibly occurring post spay if your bitch has already had synptoms  forewarned may be fore armed...
http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=15874&highlight=phantom


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

Thank you so much for all your advice and support!

Miss Lilly seems to be improving little by little and she is back to pulling her toys out of her basket, dragging her bed around if she needs to go out and her appetite is much better too!

We went for a lovely walk on Hampstead Heath today and even managed some posing:









I am so relieved! I think I'll get my old Miss Lilly back - I've missed her so much!!

I think too this has answered the question for me of whether to spay or not once and for all and I shall be doing so feeling much less ambivalent. This has definitely not been an easy time for her and we are still not completely out the woods yet. Its been heart breaking to see her so miserable - but lovely to see her getting her mojo back slowly!


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Love the photo, and the fact that she feels better too. What exactly is she sitting on or in.


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## Miss Lilly (Sep 12, 2014)

He-he!! Its an old well or fountain that's been filled in...

Whilst she was in season, we practiced a lot of 'up' (onto the bed or sofa) and 'stay' - so its our first attempt at posing )


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Really pleased she is starting to get her bounce back 

Lovely posing Miss Lilly


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

She looks very proud sitting up there! glad she is getting back to her usual self.


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Great picture. Glad she is feeling like her old self again.


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