# DNA or BVA eye test



## iwantone (May 9, 2011)

Does anyone know how important is it to have the DNA test for PRA. How common is PRA in cockapoos (I know both Poodles and Cockers can suffer from this)? I've done some searching and know about the carrier, infected or clear bit. I am not sure if I am just looking into it too much, or is it ok as long as both parents have current BVA clear certificates? 

thanks


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

iwantone said:


> Does anyone know how important is it to have the DNA test for PRA. How common is PRA in cockapoos (I know both Poodles and Cockers can suffer from this)? I've done some searching and know about the carrier, infected or clear bit. I am not sure if I am just looking into it too much, or is it ok as long as both parents have current BVA clear certificates?
> 
> thanks


If you are not planning to breed you just need one parent to have a clear eye test. The puppy could be a carrier but will not be affected.

If you are planning to breed then it would be good practice to have both parents clear then the puppy would be clear.

You should NOT buy a puppy from a breeder where neither parent has been tested as you could end up with a puppy who could develop PRA.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

iwantone said:


> Does anyone know how important is it to have the DNA test for PRA. How common is PRA in cockapoos (I know both Poodles and Cockers can suffer from this)? I've done some searching and know about the carrier, infected or clear bit. I am not sure if I am just looking into it too much, or is it ok as long as both parents have current BVA clear certificates?
> 
> thanks


'PRA' is an eye disease that causes blindness and only affects dogs that carry a defective gene. That gene is passed down from the parents BUT a puppy only has a 'chance' of becoming a carrier IF BOTH PARENTS are also carriers. If the DNA of one of the parents has a clear/normal DNA result then the puppy WILL NOT become a carrier and therefore will not contract the disease. The company that does the worldwide DNA testing at the moment is OptiGen in the States. So if you see it published anywhere that a breeding dog is OptiGen A that means that it's offspring will not be at risk of PRA eye disease.

'BVA' eye testing is undertaken by a specialist Canine Opthamologist. It is a detailed manual examination of the eyes and has to be done on an annual basis for a breeding dog. It reveals any visible problems if they have already affected the eye but cannot guarantee what changes may appear in the future.

I hope that this answers you question.

PRA is a horrid disease and yes it is present in some family lines of Poodles and Show Cocker Spaniels but far less so in Working Cocker Spaniels. My personnal opinion would be to only breed where one parent was indeed DNA tested clear. The potential problem is then eliminated!

Julia xx


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## iwantone (May 9, 2011)

Thanks
I've seen some puppies where the mum and dad both have current clear BVA tests. I'd really prefer one of parents to be DNA tested, but not many people seem to do this.
My search continues


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Hi.

Well done for doing your homework on health tests.

If one parent is Optigen tested clear of PRA but mates with a carrier then potentially half of the resulting litter will be clear and half could be carriers. The only way to get a completely clear litter is if both parents are clear. If you are not planning on breeding then it does not matter if the puppy is a carrier as they will not develop the disease themselves.

I have attached a link from the Optigen website which explains it all better than I can! 

http://www.optigen.com/opt9_test_prcdprabs.html


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Sezra said:


> Hi.
> 
> Well done for doing your homework on health tests.
> 
> ...


Yes I've just looked too. It seems that even a carrier has extremely low risk of getting prdc-PRA. It is only the third group of 'affected' dogs that have a very high risk of the PRA. I've also linked to the page I was looking at.

Julia

http://www.optigen.com/opt9_test_prcd_pra.html


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Just seen this thread ... If buying a cockapoo puppy you really need to know that ONE parents is Optigen PRA DNA tested with a clear result, as BVA testing is only a yearly test of the eye rather than a lifetime test of the DNA. The PRA disease may not show in cockapoos until later in life so in my option the BVA testing is not as reassuring as DNA testing. One parent being DNA tested will ensure all the puppies from this litter are either clear of PRA or carriers of PRA, depending on what the other parents is, both of these results means your puppy will not suffer from the disease and will not go blind. All good breeders would have ONE parent with a clear DNA test result this is more conclusive and reassuring than having both parents BVA tested.

I hope this helps. I have research hard on this recently and really feel this is important.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Completely agree with you JoJo. I wouldn't consider getting a puppy unless at least one of the parents were DNA tested. It would be too heartbreaking to have your beautiful dog to become ill with this awful disease.

This is where I worry about owners breeding their pets without doing the proper research (not like you JoJo! ) *If a pet Cockapoo is from a breeder that only tests one parent your dog could be a carrier. If you then mate your dog with another carrier 1/2 of the litter could be carriers and 1/4 could actually have PRA. *Someone I know is thinking of mating her Cockapoo with another one, beautiful dogs but one owner does not know if the parents of her dog were tested at all and the other is from a reputable breeder who does health test. I am going to speak to her in the nicest way about looking into health testing first.  Most good breeders do DNA test but only one parent so potentially (not sure what the % would be) there could be a lot of carriers out there of PRA.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Exactly Sarah... so one parent must be CLEAR .... I know all about this as I am currently waiting for test results  

& thank you for your kind comments .. about my research. I would not have puppies or even consider breeding without doing it correctly, thats just the way I am . I want to hand over a puppy to its new owner with true pride that I have brought this happy, healthy and perfectly socialised cockapoo into the world, plus deep in my heart I want others (new owners) to share the cockapoo joy I have every day from mine xxxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Exactly Sarah... so one parent must be CLEAR .... I know all about this as I am currently waiting for test results
> 
> & thank you for your kind comments .. about my research. I would not have puppies or even consider breeding without doing it correctly, thats just the way I am . I want to hand over a puppy to its new owner with true pride that I have brought this happy, healthy and perfectly socialised cockapoo into the world, plus deep in my heart I want others (new owners) to share the cockapoo joy I have every day from mine xxxx


That is so lovely! 

I will have to come and see you oneday, when I am looking for no.2!  

x


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## Happyad (Oct 5, 2010)

Option DNA testing is the only sure fire way of knowing. 
My cynical side tells me that a percentage of bad breeders will lie about a parent being clear. The good an honest ones will tell the truth. 
So dont just balance on a piece of paper. Use your instincts. Are they trustworthy? Have u been recommended them? Can you get references?
If we do our part to investigate and make it " difficult" for bad breeders, we are dogs and other prospective purchasers who may be less informed. 
A


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

HappyAd ... I must admit I agree with you, I think I may have met a few too....


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## Happyad (Oct 5, 2010)

Just sent some bloods off for Martha testing, £77 for test, free blood tkn at the vets, just the postage. All in all not too bad. Fingers crossed


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Hope Marthas results are clear Adam.... just moves you that little bit further towards your healthy puppies .... good luck.. how long do you have to wait x


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## Happyad (Oct 5, 2010)

Upto six weeks. But the others I have sent off were about two weeks. 
Her dad is clear so that's a good start. 
I have sent off bloods for my first girl, same scenario and we had clear results. 
The other two lots I have sent off for prospective studs weren't so good. One a carrier and one has prd so always worth the check. 
A


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

hi folks just read this thread , there is a uk lab doing dna for pra and if you have americans pfk (phosphofructokinase) try saying that girls ? my americans are all clear .Adam i totally agree with you on the piece of paper and your instincts new people must take care a reputable breeder will have good history and i feel will readily give refferences, there is another option for dna testing (mouth swabs) never done it but no others who have romeo


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi Adam ... I hope you are happy with Martha's results .. my results from USA tend to take 2 weeks to come back  I have sent blood tests and mouth swabs .. for DNA testing, I just wanted to experience both ways of testing.... its all experience. You are lucky your vet didn't charge you for taking blood samples, mine did.... costly, but well worth it to know your dogs health especially when planning to breed 

If Martha was a carrier/affected would you still consider breeding her, just make sure she was with a DNA tested clear stud? 

I have searched the country high and low ... some breeders don't DNA test at all, some only test one parent to ensure one parent is clear, and very very few test both parents...


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2011)

jojo i do both parents on my 2nd generations but not all on 1st gens but making my way through them slowly get there in the end janice x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I know DNA testing one dog with a clear result is acceptable when breeding ..

However I find it hard to believe so many don't .. I had a look on preloved to see so many cockapoo puppys for sale from parents with no health testing or just BVA testing ... shocking really ..


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Have you got another stud dog then Adam ? x


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## Happyad (Oct 5, 2010)

Sadly no. 
It's not this season but next in spring for Duff however will keep hunting. 
To be fair it's not many that keep dogs entire and many don't want the work of a stud dog after I chat with them! Lol
I am lucky as where I live cockapoo is the dog of choice, so loads of options, plus I'm a groomer so alot pass under my nose. 
The temperament of all has been great and I am foolish as dogs I don't like the look of, I'm not approaching. 
Which is stupid as we all know the look is in a haircut and it's the genes which i need to review. 
I have sent bloods for two dogs but neither clear. 
Plenty of time I hope! Lol


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

So they were nt your dogs ... I see. Good luck with your search for a healthy, clear, handsome boy.. time flies though. What response did you get from the owners once they got the results x


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2011)

adam just a suggestion why dont you buy a dog puppy from tested parents f1 or f2 i have both ??? romeo


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