# Chew issues!



## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Hi all
Arthur was engrossed in his pigs ear last night when my youngest daughter walked passed him and bent down to play -he growled at her,which he has a couple of times as he can be very possessive of his most prized possession. 
We have 2 children aged 6 and 2 and he very much sees the 2 year old as a puppymate. We therefore get her to feed him and take his bowl off him mess with the food while he eats and encourage her not to play rough games with him (as but being 2 she is quiet heavy handed) and help in the training. Anyway, I told her to take the pigs ear off him when he snapped at her! He didnt make contact it was very much a warning to her. I told him off, took the chew off him and put him in his bed where he was ignored. 
I have gone back to basics now again with the training esp where food is concerned as he is very food orientated, no tit bits from plates and we eat first etc but has anyone got any advise? He is nearly 5 months and not been 'done' so i think he is testing the boundaries but don't want him to become food aggressive!


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## Laura(L)Izzie (Sep 9, 2011)

Izzie is the same with a couple of her toys, but only when i'm actually playing with her, not when i'm just going and taking it, we play tug of war then i throw it for her to fetch then as we're playing as I go near it with my hand she growls, but I know she's playing because if I sotp she brings it to me or barks at me as if to say 'play!'
I can't really advise how to stop it though tbh, probably the way you are doing with removing it & putting him away from you alone to teach him it's naughty...


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## holicon (Mar 8, 2011)

I have a two year old son and he can take Coco's food, chews etc away from him but I gave Coco a different rawhide one day and when my son went near him he turned on him so I took the chew away and never gave it back. I was considering feeding raw diet to Coco but that changed my mind. Sorry I didn't help much not sure what you can do. Its hard at times with a toddler and a puppy


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Lois and Laura, he lets us take anything away from him apart from the pigs ear - he absolutely loves them, so i dont really want to ban him from them but for now he is having them in his crate or under strict supervision!! And Lois I agree - toddlers and puppies what a nightmare im not sure who needs more training!!


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## Laura(L)Izzie (Sep 9, 2011)

No problem, I hope you sort the problem  It may not be aggression, as you said it could be a warning, but in the future if your children play & he growls it may just be playing, Izzie growls a lot, but I have never taken it as aggression, always in a playing manor  Good luck! x


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Laura - he does growl in play, but this is a 'get off' which Im not keen on as he needs to know hes bottom of the heap (poor boy but so are all men HA HA!)


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## Laura(L)Izzie (Sep 9, 2011)

calli.h said:


> Thanks Laura - he does growl in play, but this is a 'get off' which Im not keen on as he needs to know hes bottom of the heap (poor boy but so are all men HA HA!)


Hmm :/ Yes do make sure he can't do it aggressively, with Izzie it's like a get off it's mine BUT still play with me with it, she's strange  & if I ever think she's getting a bit naughty I just ignore her & walk away, that way she knows it's not acceptable. & of course men are lower than us women


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Please, please, please stop getting or allowing your children to take food away from your puppy. You are more likely to cause aggression than solve it this way - if someone continually took my food away or stuck their hand in it I would get pretty grouchy and pups are no different. A growl was his way of saying he really wanted to keep his chew but was feeling threatened and it was you that upped the game by not listening to his warning and encouraging your child to take the chew. The poor dog then got punished 

From now on leave your pup alone when eating. To re-establish some trust an ADULT can approach the bowl to add some tasty treats - don't take food away. By all means give treats in a crate - but the main thing is to leave the dog undisturbed.

The Blue Cross provide some excellent information on reading dogs body language and how children in particular should behave around dogs. This includes when not to approach them.

Your pup will have been trying to tell you for some time it is unhappy with you messing around with its food - please listen to what it is saying. A dog who trusts you will allow you to take things if you have to - a dog who has been messed about like this will get increasingly aggressive as it feels it has to to try and get people to listen.

http://www.bluecross.org.uk/1958-2850/be-safe-with-dogs.html


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## katycat (Sep 30, 2011)

Think it may be an issue on how everyone deals with it. My Granddaughter has two puppies to deal with two days a week. Whenever Griff or Mackie are possessive with there pigs ears we take them of them and tell them no. This is working no problem and now they are happy to let her take them. I think it is important that they know who is boss even when it comes to young children. I would not like it to be the situation where my Granddaughter was scared to approach them, as at the end of the day she comes first, and Griff and Mackie now realise this even at such a young age .


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

sit with him and hold the chew, then tak it away, then ive it back (still you holding it) repeat this a couple of times, giving and taking away. then get the wee ones invalved (you next to them so you can step in) get them to do the same always starting with them holding the chew and letting him chew it. 

but it sould like you are doing well. my we brother can take most things away from my girls, Delta is still a little funny with food like a wigh or something she will growl a little.


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## marzy (Aug 20, 2010)

I totally agree with kendal! 
you have to show who's boss. 
if they growl take it away...
next time give then take away just for a second then give it back... 
in my opinion it shows they can only have what u choose to give them and when ..
its not teasing 
also i think if u let them have it in peace ... if they take some thing from u and take it to their bed they will growl and not let u have it back ... 
that's only in my experience abdomen my opinion! 

training is trial and error andwhat suits u and your dog xxx 

hope I'm some help 

marzy xxx


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Kendal, Marzy and Kate, thank you, you have restored some of my faith in the forum, I too am of the opinion that the pups have to know that all the family are above him in the pecking order.... Arthur totally trusts all of us and is soft as a brush apart from the odd time with the chew he give us anything and let us take/swap toys. My kids don't take the chews off him or tease him,and under supervision I do let my children feed him his food and drop treats into his bowl as he is eating - and not all the time, again he is again fine with this! Kendal i was going to try holding the pigs ear with the youngest and letting her take it and give it back, also swapping the ear for something nicer as a 'trade up' x


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

This thread has become interesting because of 2ndhandgals post. I believe
she is very experienced and has previsously or currently worked with the RSCPA
or other dog resuce society (correct me if I'm wrong) so was suprised/interested in her advice as I too previously had only read /heard about offering/taking away/re -offering food as a way of preventing possession aggression.
Two schools of thought I guess - I have no idea which is correct or which to
believe in now although not had this problem so far....


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## Laura(L)Izzie (Sep 9, 2011)

I agree with Colin, but I think both ways work & it depends which you personally prefer, I think dogs have to realise that they aren't top of the chain & that you can take things away from them if you want/need to, they should get it back though as it then teaches them the 'rules' of not growling or whatever.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with 2ndhandgal here too! By taking the item away you are actually giving the dog good reason to defend his/her goodies, whether you give them back or not. I never encourage my children to go near dogs when they are eating food or bones etc. I believe you are just asking for trouble, when I treat my dog with ears/bones etc I always send him out in the garden where he can enjoy undisturbed. I also get to rest easy knowing my kids aren't going to get bitten if they wander too close. We don't have a problem with possesion aggression because I don't put my dog or kids in a position where it could occur.
I just think this is a better way rather than pushing a dog's instints and hoping they don't react badly when you take something.
I would say what you are doing by putting your dog in the crate is good, he then learns no one will do anything to his food and you get to relax


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

My background is one of always taking on adult rescue dogs which sometimes come with issues, assisting friends who have fostered dogs for rescues prior to them being rehomed and assisting with training classes as well as running a flyball club for a while.

My most recent dog is Molly a tiny cockapoo who was looking for a new home due to showing aggression to the other dog in the family and the children. She is just coming up to 2 and I have now had her for around 7 months. When I first got her she would guard anything she had from scraps of paper, to toys and biscuits. I have never used force to take things from her but have swapped things she has stolen for treats, distracted her from them with another toy and never messed around with her food bowl other than maybe adding a few bits to it so my approach is a good thing not a bad thing. 

Weirdly enough early this week I made a mistake and gave her a rubber toy stuffed with liver cake (which she loves) in her crate in the car - without making sure she could empty it all herself. When I went to open her crate I was with a friend with another dog and she growled threateningly at the other dog as she still had a fair amount of food in the toy. Once he was moved back a bit she happily let me reach into the crate and remove the toy with the liver cake in it without a single sound of protest - her reward was to then be given the food followed by a nice walk. 

There are two schools of thought about dog training - the older methods involve dominance and making sure the dog knows its place in the pack. The newer methods involve positive reinforcement and guiding the dog towards making the right decision. The older methods can work - but applied wrongly can lead to an increase in problems - and as far as I am concerned a five month old pup growling and snapping at a 2 year old child is a pretty big problem and needs a change of approach to resolve it.

I do not consider myself to be Mollys pack leader - but I do control all of the resources which are valuable to her and I expect her to show reasonable manners to earn her rewards. She now has a reasonable level of training, knows pretty well the rules and boundaries and is very little problem.

Some links which make interesting reading:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/Dog-Whispering-Can-Backfire

http://www.apbc.org.uk/blog/to_dominate_or_not_to_dominate

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/puppy-behavior-emergency-resource-guarding

http://www.naturallyhappydogs.com/watch/jordan-shelley


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

I agree with you that Arthur snapping is totally unacceptable which is why I posted and I am open to any advice, I appreciate your time and effort in your responses to the problem.


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## jools (Nov 11, 2010)

Kendal helped me out with this one with the chew situation i.e, holding the chew whilst he eats it - fingers crossed Dexter knows that if he growls when we go near his chew he gets it taken away - i spose its like kids you do what works for your own family!!!


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## mum2bobs (Jun 23, 2010)

Interesting topic, with two different angles on how to deal with this problem.

For me, no sign of aggression, growling or snapping at kids is acceptable behaviour. It was one thing I was worried about when I got Bobs because I look after my niece a lot and her relationship with my previous dog was great - they were best buddies and I wanted her to be able to have the same with Bobs.

From day one I made sure that she was involved in teaching Bobs his manners. I have no 'official' dog training experience, just what I feel is the best way to do things so how it gels in with todays training recommendations I have no idea, but I had done the same with the previous dog and it seemed to work.

Anyway, when Bobs was little, when he was eating we would put our hands in his bowl while he was eating, pick up a bit of food and give it to him at bowl level, my theory being that if he knew the dreaded hand was going to give him food it would not be seen as a threat. 

With things like chews, pigs ears, bones etc, I always told my niece not to go near him, but we taught Bobs to respond to the command 'drop' and would take the bone away and give him a tasty treat - little bit of cooked chicken, cheese etc, with loads of praise and hugs.

We did this consistently for months, and, thankfully, it seemed to have worked because he never shows any sign of aggression round food, toys etc and we can literally take anything from him if we wanted to.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

I had exactly this problem yesterday with Biscuit. he has been fussy with his NI and I gave him a chicken wing yesterday and he was obviously very hungry. I always put down a big sheet of newspaper for him to eat it on but when he moved away from it, my 8 yr-old went to put him back. Well, I have never heard him growl and go to snap like that so I have told my 8 yr-old never to approach him again if he does that as it could be dangerous. He was only trying to help but obviously Biscuit wouldn't see it that way. I will give him another one today and drop a few treats nearby as I pass him. I have always handled his normal food bowl from day one to avoid this (as suggested in that 'Perfect Puppy' book!) but I think bones do cause a different problem. He then growled at me later when I called him outside for his last wee. I then closed the back door and waited outside for a minute (he can see me through the glass). He then started whimpering, so I let him out and I didn't make an issue of it. I did read that I must never punish growling or try to inhibit the noise as it is their warning noise and there would be nothing worse if he just bit without growling first. They suggest that you just back off from the situation to give the dog some 'time out' and then reassess what has gone wrong and work towards correcting it with treats, etc. They also suggest adding more training during the day, so they have it reinforced that you are boss. It's not a nice issue and it does worry me a bit when it happens, especially as we have 3 children.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I've just given him another wing and he is absolutely fine this time. I think he was just extra hungry and determined not to lost his one chance of a good meal yesterday. He saw me snipping the wing and then I held it at first for him to eat and started stroking him when he started to eat it. Each time I have walked towards him, I have dropped a small treat, and even moved the wing a bit and no growling! Hooray!! I think it is because he trusts me so the next step is to get the 8 yr-old and other members the family to take it in turns to give him a wing and hopefully he will learn to trust us all!


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Thats great news Janev1000, I think Arthur is the same, as was only the 2yr old that he has an issue with - she gives him his food every night and both girls are helping train him with treats- the youngest is also being trained on how to behave nicely around dogs!! Arthur hasnt done it again since I firstposted, Rightly or wrongly I have left the pigs ear out so he doesnt think of it as a prized possession - he just gets it from his basket like a normal chew or toy and has a play/chew on it, he even brings it over to us to sit and fuss him. However the girls know not to approach him while he has it and give him some space. Its still a work in progress.....
Thank you to everyone who posted ideas and suggestions it was much appreciated.


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## calli.h (Aug 29, 2011)

Thats great news Janev1000, I think Arthur is the same, as was only the 2yr old that he has an issue with - she gives him his food every night and both girls are helping train him with treats- the youngest is also being trained on how to behave nicely around dogs!! Arthur hasnt done it again since I first posted, Rightly or wrongly I have left the pigs ear out so he doesnt think of it as a prized possession - he just gets it from his basket like a normal chew or toy and has a play/chew on it, he even brings it over to us to sit and fuss him. However the girls know not to approach him while he has it and give him some space. Its still a work in progress.....
Thank you to everyone who posted ideas and suggestions it was much appreciated.


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