# looking for cockapoo



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

I am looking for cockapoo in ottawa area. Anybody here in Ottawa? If anyone know a good breeder in ottawa please let me know.Thanks


----------



## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Welcome! I was in Ottawa and travelled past Toronto to get Rufus, Barb is there and travelled to Perth?? or somewhere to get Maggie. I would not reccomend Rufus's breeder at all. I am in Quebec now and all the cockapoos seem to come from brokers here. All this to say it is tough and you might find you have to travel to upstate NY or NH or Vermont to find a really good breeder, that and pay a small fortune.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks for your reply. I do find a breeder called Nancy's Kennel and it is not too far from us. The problem is that I can't find any review for this breeder's website and their price is cheaper than others.


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi Gracecui. I sent you a private message.


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

I got mine from Amy at A&R Country Kennels, my brother got his there 2 years ago.

It's about 2.5 hours away from Ottawa; but it's worth the drive.

She is expecting a litter in April.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Thank you for replying my email. Does sable cockapoo change color significantly when they grow older? Does black one change also?


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

gracecui said:


> Thank you for replying my email. Does sable cockapoo change color significantly when they grow older? Does black one change also?


In a word yes, although sable is dependant on several factors so you can end up with a wide gambit of colour shading over the life of the dog.

There are a lot of genes that effect coats, I suggest a read - http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/

See photos of my Brindle Wild Agouti (wild sable with brindle colouring throughout the red part of the coat). Two photos are at 4 weeks old, the rest are between 8-10 weeks. A lot of the black has turned grey then red/tan coloured (yes Tri coloured hair) and I suspect most of the black will go red over time except I expect that the black ridge of her back will somewhat say and her face will retain most marked and the tips of her ears. She has what appears to be brindling in her coat as there is a mix of red and black hairs along the points mentioned. But I am not a dog coat expert.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks for those great pictures! Your sweet girl is really amazing and unique! I am not picky about the color and I only care about the temper of the puppy. My husband doesn’t like color black (I wish I can persuade him). There are only black litters available at this time except one shows some brown color on his back.


----------



## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Rehome the husband as quickly as you can, he has terrible taste!


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Yeah!! That is what I am considering...


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

gracecui said:


> Thanks for those great pictures! Your sweet girl is really amazing and unique! I am not picky about the color and I only care about the temper of the puppy. My husband doesn?t like color black (I wish I can persuade him). There are only black litters available at this time except one shows some brown color on his back.


What colours are the parents? Photos? If neither is black I doubt the puppies will stay all black.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

The mom is an American Cocker Spaniel(black and white) and the dad is a white or blonde Miniature Poodle. There are 7 litters and 6 are all black. one litter show some kind of brown on his back.


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

gracecui said:


> The mom is an American Cocker Spaniel(black and white) and the dad is a white or blonde Miniature Poodle. There are 7 litters and 6 are all black. one litter show some kind of brown on his back.


Daddy is an 'apricot' poodle. The same daddy as Miss Maggie.


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

These are the little darlings she's considering.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks for posting the picture for me! I am dreaming that the black puppy can change their color and will be the same color as your sweet Maggie...


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Get the sable one and it well may.


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

If you go with the most brown pup they will most likely be lighter as an adult.


----------



## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Looks to me as if two of the pups are sable and will get lighter. Ask the breeder to confirm this. Look at photos of 2ndhandgirl's Molly for an adult sable...
I think you are wise to assume than any black puppy will remain black. Some do fade to 'blue' but black puppies most often grow to be black dogs. I have two - Kiki's parents were both 'blonde' and Dot's mum was a choccy roan and her dad a faded choccy poodle.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Marzi said:


> Looks to me as if two of the pups are sable and will get lighter. Ask the breeder to confirm this. Look at photos of 2ndhandgirl's Molly for an adult sable...
> I think you are wise to assume than any black puppy will remain black. Some do fade to 'blue' but black puppies most often grow to be black dogs. I have two - Kiki's parents were both 'blonde' and Dot's mum was a choccy roan and her dad a faded choccy poodle.


Thanks for all the great suggestions. I do call the breeder but she said it is hard to predict. I plan to make an appointment to visit the puppies at six weeks. If my husband can not change his mind at that time, I may wait for the next litters . I want my future puppy is loved by everyone in the family


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

gracecui said:


> Thanks for all the great suggestions. I do call the breeder but she said it is hard to predict. I plan to make an appointment to visit the puppies at six weeks. If my husband can not change his mind at that time, I may wait for the next litters . I want my future puppy is loved by everyone in the family


If you wait for the next litter from this breeder I think it will be a very very very long wait. I have not seen any more apricot puppies from her since Maggie was born 2 years ago.


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

gracecui said:


> I may wait for the next litters. I want my future puppy is loved by everyone in the family


that could be a long wait, you may need to check out another breeder.

I've attached two photos, one is my pups back fur today (10 weeks old) and the other is the litter (under a red heat lamp so I stripped out the colour but the shading difference is correct). Please note I have a Brindle Wild Sable vs. a normal Sable - basically she ends up having a lot of colour variance through her coat (the random black strands & the more coherent waves of dark stripping) where as a sable pup is more uniform although both have colour changes throughout their life.

1. When I selected her at 4.5 weeks she had dark hair with a bit of brown/tan/red colouring in her. As she grew at pickup at 8 weeks her hair was coming in red/tan on the face and wolf grey towards her buttocks area. Now a lot more tan/red is coming out in the Sable sections of her coat often replacing the grey with a lighter tone.

2. Litter photo at selection, you can just see the sable characteristics in her (the middle puppy) vs the black pup and the white on the partie pup beside her.


----------



## gracecui (Mar 4, 2016)

Just curious why the daddy is an apricot poodle and the mom is black and white, none of the puppies has the same color as the daddy


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

gracecui said:


> Just curious why the daddy is an apricot poodle and the mom is black and white, none of the puppies has the same color as the daddy


In order to get apricot coloring you have to have recessive genes on on the black allele and the sable allele to allow the red to come through; which is to say it's rare to get.

Although there is a recessive black in dog coats, most black dogs are dominate my black (at least 1 dominate black Allele in their genes) so when you breed a black dog with a non-black dog you don't tend to get the non-black color as much if ever.

In this case the pups are mostly black with a couple sables.


What's more surprising as we don't have more B&W parties and this litter; a.k.a. black and white Puppies. As the partie allele is a mask and will go over both red and black colourings...


----------



## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Colour genetics is not straight forward.


----------



## Tesseract (Feb 3, 2016)

Marzi said:


> Colour genetics is not straight forward.


It is if you understand it, but it is very complicated and requires some assumptions if you don't track the full bloodline.


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

I understood the colour genetics of shelties as that's the breed I had for years and years prior to Maggie. Cockapoo colour genetics seems to be a whole new ball game.


----------



## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Tesseract said:


> In order to get apricot coloring you have to have recessive genes on on the black allele and the sable allele to allow the red to come through; which is to say it's rare to get.
> 
> Although there is a recessive black in dog coats, most black dogs are dominate my black (at least 1 dominate black Allele in their genes) so when you breed a black dog with a non-black dog you don't tend to get the non-black color as much if ever.
> 
> ...


I know she has two black and white parti cockers and I've never seen them have parti puppies. Only black with a tiny bit of white on chest or paws.


----------

