# Getting Teddy to sleep in his pen!



## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

Teddy is doing so well, we picked him up on Sunday and he has only had one poo in the house since then he has whined and gone to the door so he knows what to do there, he is struggling a little with his wee's but seems to be getting there.

Sunday night me and my partner slept in the living room on the sofa and teddy slept in his bed on the floor. He would wake up and whine to go outside so we would let him out and then tell him to go back to bed, he would want to play for a bit but we ignored him and he would then settle back down. 

Yesterday day time we moved his bed inside his pen (outside the crate as he is not keen on that at all) and every time he fell asleep we would put him in his bed settle him and then walk away with the pen door open, it went very well, we even managed to have dinner in the dining room whilst he slept.

Once he woke up he comes out of his pen and will sleep on the floor by the sofa, he is fine in the living room on his own we leave the door open and hang out in the kitchen and he isn't in the slightest bit bothered that we aren't there. Sometimes he would whine for a couple minutes but he would soon settle himself down.

As he did so well during the day we decided to try shutting the pen door at night, we put him in his bed as normal once he was asleep and let him settle before walking away however this time we shut the pen door behind us. He was totally fine because he didn't notice any different and we were still in the room on the sofa. He woke up about 20 minutes later and realised he was trapped we let him cry for about 5 minutes and then let him out to the toilet.

After that we carried him back inside and put him in his bed, though he wanted to play and wouldn't settle, We left him in his bed playing with his toys but he quickly got up and realised the door was shut. He cried for 15 minutes straight and so we thought it was best to let him out in the garden and then put him back in his crate so that he knows crying = toilet and not crying = attention.

When i took him outside tot he toilet my partner checked over the pen and he had wee'd everywhere (not because he needed to as he had been 15 minutes before) but because he was so scared. We gave in and went back a step to just getting him to go to bed in his pen which he did during the night. We woke up and every time he would have found his way back to the floor by us but we would let him out and then put him back to bed and he did very well all night.

My question is did we try and leave him too early on? Were we too weak in giving in? How long is too long to leave him to cry? And does anyone have any suggestions for us?


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## Jackson2017 (Jul 4, 2017)

As I remember it

We picked up Jackson on a sunday, I slept on the couch with Jackson inside his crate, he cried for about 15 mins then fell asleep, up twice for pee and then awake by 5am

next night cried for about 30 mins before falling asleep again I was on the sofa, he woke up every 2 hrs. I then realised I hadn't covered the crate with a blanket like I should have, once I did he settled and I went upstairs to my bed

over the next week we slept upstairs and he would cry for 10 mins then fall asleep

after a week he would make no noise at all and slept in his crate

so perhaps just give it time

at 18 weeks Jackson now sleeps on our bed at night but has always been a little star with his toilet training so we trust him and he loves it


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

Okay, I think maybe we will have to try and leave him to cry for longer, his crate does have a blanket over it but he just wont go in there. Were you in the room whilst he was crying so that he can see you? I'm not sure if we are putting ourselves through unnecessary hell by being in the room whilst he cries. Also i'm assuming the room should be dark and quiet when he is shut in there?

We are both happy for him to go without the crate and just stay locked in his pen if that's what he is okay with as he is totally safe and secure in there. What about the weeing all over himself and the pen? He even wee'd on me when I picked him up which is not like him.

Sorry for all of the questions, he is doing so well with everything else i'm just stressing about this part.


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## Jackson2017 (Jul 4, 2017)

TeddyCockapoo said:


> Okay, I think maybe we will have to try and leave him to cry for longer, his crate does have a blanket over it but he just wont go in there. Were you in the room whilst he was crying so that he can see you? I'm not sure if we are putting ourselves through unnecessary hell by being in the room whilst he cries. Also i'm assuming the room should be dark and quiet when he is shut in there?
> 
> We are both happy for him to go without the crate and just stay locked in his pen if that's what he is okay with as he is totally safe and secure in there. What about the weeing all over himself and the pen? He even wee'd on me when I picked him up which is not like him.
> 
> Sorry for all of the questions, he is doing so well with everything else i'm just stressing about this part.


No I was the same, I remember getting to the end of the 1st week and wondering if he would ever get to a point where he didn't cry when we went to bed but he did get over it

Hopefully teddy likes to sleep in, our boy would get up at 4am every morning if we got out of bed

Not sure about the weeing, but its very early days so its probably nervousness/excitement with you

It may seem like its taking a while to get the message though but literally next minute he will pick something up you thought he wasn't getting


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Weeing when left for a few minutes means he was terrified, leaving him to cry and be terrified on his own is not the start you want for him in your new home. He is a baby who has left everyone and everything he knew and is now living with total strangers and the key to having a dog who is secure and happy is not leaving them until they are settled and can cope. 

Stay downstairs with him until he learns to happily sleep in his crate or pen or take the crate upstairs so he settles happily in your room. Once he has settled down he will be able to relax and you will be able to leave him as you have taught him he is safe in your home.


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

2ndhandgal said:


> Weeing when left for a few minutes means he was terrified, leaving him to cry and be terrified on his own is not the start you want for him in your new home. He is a baby who has left everyone and everything he knew and is now living with total strangers and the key to having a dog who is secure and happy is not leaving them until they are settled and can cope.
> 
> Stay downstairs with him until he learns to happily sleep in his crate or pen or take the crate upstairs so he settles happily in your room. Once he has settled down he will be able to relax and you will be able to leave him as you have taught him he is safe in your home.


Thank you for the advise. We are at a bit of a loss at the moment though not entirely surprised and it is still very early on. He has a check up at the vets tonight so we will ask what they think we should do as they know better than we do.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Vets are trained in health - trainers are trained in behaviour and training issue NOT vets - I have heard some truly awful advice from vets over the years!

Honestly - staying with him or bringing him up with you are the best options for a happy well balanced baby who can learn to stay on his own when he is more settled


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

Update - The vet told us he was totally fine to be left on his own and so we did, he slept downstairs last night, he cried for 50 minutes and the settled (he fell asleep by the gate) I then checked the camera again 10 minutes later and he had got himself up and put himself to bed. We got up at 3:30 am and he was still sleeping, we went downstairs and gave him no attention just let him outside. He then went back to bed and he cried for 20 minutes and then slept through till morning. This is what I wanted to do all along I just had to convince my partner it was the right thing to do. He has just go to get used to sleeping on his own.

Also I am aware that vets and trainers are different but we wanted to check it wouldn't harm him and that he was totally fine. My colleague trains guide dog labs from when they are 8 weeks to 12 to 18 months old so she is a total pro on bringing up puppies and she told me to leave him also so me and my partner are both completely convinced that tough love is the way forward. He has been totally fine still going into his pen on his own for food and to sleep so it hasn't scared him out of it.

Note - When he cried it was totally different from the first time he definitely seemed as though he was crying for attention rather than because he was scared. He also didn't wee anywhere but did do a little poo away from where he slept. 

Thank you both for your advice.


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## beckymnd (Oct 17, 2017)

The first week was super tricky with Dexter but I made it a lot easier for myself but thinking where do I ultimately want him sleeping? The answer was anywhere he likes once he's house trained, until then, in his crate in the living room. 

So we persisted with the crate. We slept in the living room for 6 nights, a couple of the nights he cried for nearly an hour before settling, but I just waited it out. Eventually on night 7 he slept completely through 10pm-8am. And settled after 5 mins, so I moved up to my bedroom. 
It took him about 30 mins to settle the first night, but ever since he's slept through 10pm-8am every night! He's now settling immediately and we don't hear a peep until we wake him at 8 to go pee.

We've had him 4 weeks now, he's 12.5 weeks old  the key to it is just to be SUPER consistent. If you'd prefer him crated, work on crate training him. Leave him in there with the door open with Kongs, feed him in there, and just make it a safe happy place for him.
If you're planning on scrapping the crate, then just be persistent with the pen door being closed.
I'd let Dexter out to pee before crating, then give him 45 mins to settle. If he didn't, he went back out to pee, and back to his crate with no interaction. In the middle of the night, I'd wake immediately if he made a peep and presume he needed a pee. Again, absolutely no interaction 

Good luck!!! It gets better and a lot easier!


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

beckymnd said:


> The first week was super tricky with Dexter but I made it a lot easier for myself but thinking where do I ultimately want him sleeping? The answer was anywhere he likes once he's house trained, until then, in his crate in the living room.
> 
> So we persisted with the crate. We slept in the living room for 6 nights, a couple of the nights he cried for nearly an hour before settling, but I just waited it out. Eventually on night 7 he slept completely through 10pm-8am. And settled after 5 mins, so I moved up to my bedroom.
> It took him about 30 mins to settle the first night, but ever since he's slept through 10pm-8am every night! He's now settling immediately and we don't hear a peep until we wake him at 8 to go pee.
> ...



Thank you!! Teddy has been doing brilliantly we stuck to our word and kept him down stairs, he now sleeps in his crate with the door open so that he can play in his pen but the pen door is shut. He started off crying for about 30 minutes and then settling down and then crying at about 3:30am for a toilet break and then after no interaction he would calm down again after a short time. Now he just whimpers a bit and then goes to sleep. Last night he whimpered for about a minute and then started playing with his toys in his pen quietly and we didn't hear a peep out of him all night. We got up at 6:00am as that is when I get up to get ready for work and my partner got up with him while I got ready. He was awake but hadn't made a fuss. And there was no mess at all. 

Now he has bed times down we are really concentrating on the biting and chewing. The guide dog trainer I mentioned before suggested getting a water bottle and putting some marbles in it and when he doesn't do as he is told to just do one quick shake of it. We didn't have any marbles so we used some gravel from the garden and it seems to really be working. We only started it yesterday and normally after only a few minutes I have to stop playing with him and send him to play with his toys as he will bite me, whereas now I tell him to 'No biting' three times and if he doesn't I will shake the bottle. He will then stop and just lick. Now he will bite me and I will say 'No biting' and he will stop and lick though he does need reinforcement with the bottle every now and again but I would totally recommend it. We do the same with the 'no chewing' if he is chewing the curtains or tree and that seems to be working too.

The only thing that he doesn't seem to be getting in the weeing inside. He doesn't poo indoors ever or even pee in his pen when he is locked in but he doesn't seem to get that he shouldn't pee around the house. So if anyone has any idea's for that it would really help.


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## cfriend (Dec 22, 2016)

At this point, I would like to chime in that I wouldn't recommend using the water bottle method for bite inhibition. For some puppies, this could create an unanticipated negative emotional response to the owner, which can have many negative consequences in the future. In addition, it could also create noise phobias or increase arousal levels leading to increased play aggression. 

About your question about peeing inside. It takes a while for a puppy to generalize the whole home as part of his/her "den" therefore it may take a while for it realize that it should pee in the house. I recommend restricting unsupervised access to areas, and to watch him/her like a hawk and reward when successful outdoors. Just be consistent and it will happen.


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

cfriend said:


> At this point, I would like to chime in that I wouldn't recommend using the water bottle method for bite inhibition. For some puppies, this could create an unanticipated negative emotional response to the owner, which can have many negative consequences in the future. In addition, it could also create noise phobias or increase arousal levels leading to increased play aggression.
> 
> About your question about peeing inside. It takes a while for a puppy to generalize the whole home as part of his/her "den" therefore it may take a while for it realize that it should pee in the house. I recommend restricting unsupervised access to areas, and to watch him/her like a hawk and reward when successful outdoors. Just be consistent and it will happen.


Thanks, Cfriend! He isn't in the slightest bit afraid of it or of any sounds actually I even took him out yesterday evening and there were fireworks going on and he wasn't phased he isn't bothered about the doorbell or other dogs barking either. I understand for some other puppies this could be an issue but it has been working wonderfully with Teddy, he is doing even better with it today too. 

In regards to the weeing I have heard from a lot of people that it is just a matter of time, we are almost always in the same room as him when he is left in the living room so we tend to catch him each time so it is only a very little bit and then we take him outside until he does a wee out there. We are happy to just continue with that.

Thanks again!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Totally agree with cfriend rattle bottles or anything similar which are intended to startle to stop behaviour are not the modern way of doing things and I am surprised that someone involved with raising guide dogs is not aware of that. Much better to teach him what you do want him to do and distract and redirect.

As for peeing inside he is still a baby and you need to keep taking him outside consistently and reward for getting it right. Out after eating, playing, sleeping and at least every hour and if you notice him sniffing around. Housetraining is really about you anticipating his need and taking him out.


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks 2ndhandgal but as I said before he is not scared of it just stops him doing what he was doing. It may not be the 'Modern' way of doing things but I am much more fond of the 'old fashioned' approaches with both parenting and raising a dog. I feel that children and dogs used to be much better behaved before no one was allowed to punish them. Obviously I don't mean shouting or hitting that is totally wrong and doesn't achieve anything other than a terrified pouch or child but I don't think positive reinforcement on its own works or this 'never say no' thing people are obsessed with at the moment. She has been raising guide dog puppies for a very long time and I don't see why she would change the way she is doing it now if it is working fine. She follows the guide lines and they become brilliant dogs for the blind so she is obviously doing a very good job. No need to fix what isn't broken I say.

As for the weeing we are now doing that thank you for the advice we take him out every half an hour or so and praise him OTT for it and he knows that when we go outside he needs to do a wee but he will still wee in the house even though i'm pretty sure he doesn't need to go as its only 10 or 15 minutes after he has done a wee outside however like you said he is still only a baby and these things come with time. He is doing brilliantly with everything else!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Most forward thinking training organisations including guide dogs now use positive reward based methods https://thehappypuppysite.com/the-evidence-for-positive-reinforcement-training-in-dogs/ and he Association of Pet Dog Trainer in the UK which is one of the leading and most successful organisations has a code of conduct not allowing the use of punishing devices such as rattle cans. I wonder if the organisation she raises pups for knows she is still using such methods?

I think you are mistaking positive for permissive - my dogs have manners and are expected to follow the rules - all achieved by positive reward based methods only.

As an added example of the harm these methods can do - when I first got Molly at 17 months she had not been socialised and barked at other dogs. Someone I thought I could trust used a "harmless spray of air" to stop Molly barking at a GSD (without my consent and I objected immediately) Surely no coincidence that whilst she is now comfortable with most dogs she is still worried by GSD's


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## beckymnd (Oct 17, 2017)

Hehe for biting we just completely ignore Dexter. He's 13 weeks today & he only nips us if we get in the way of a toy (not purposefully - accidentally... it's our fault for having our hand in the way!) If he nips us we completely cease play, say a firm 'no'. If he continues biting we leave the room without saying anything to him. It seems to have worked fab  Alternatively, we'll redirect him onto biting a chew toy instead if it's not too erratic. 

With regards to peeing inside, it really is just a matter of time - but mostly on your part. You'll learn the different signals Teddy will give off to say he needs to go, and eventually he'll only go outside. The only times we accidentally miss a signal from Dexter is when he's playing a LOT with our older Cockapoo, he'll stop dead & just start peeing without any warning! It's our fault though - we should probably take him out mid-play! 

We've introduced the use of doorbells to Dexter now & I'm AMAZED at how he's taken to them! We introduced them last night, and within 2 hours he pawed at them to go outside to pee! Might be worth looking into once he's toiletting more outside! We noticed Dexter was going to the backdoor but we coudln't always spot him, so bells seemed like a good idea. Be sure to introduce them the right way though, so he doesn't just paw at them for a treat, or to go outside to play


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

2ndhandgal said:


> Most forward thinking training organisations including guide dogs now use positive reward based methods https://thehappypuppysite.com/the-evidence-for-positive-reinforcement-training-in-dogs/ and he Association of Pet Dog Trainer in the UK which is one of the leading and most successful organisations has a code of conduct not allowing the use of punishing devices such as rattle cans. I wonder if the organisation she raises pups for knows she is still using such methods?
> 
> I think you are mistaking positive for permissive - my dogs have manners and are expected to follow the rules - all achieved by positive reward based methods only.
> 
> As an added example of the harm these methods can do - when I first got Molly at 17 months she had not been socialised and barked at other dogs. Someone I thought I could trust used a "harmless spray of air" to stop Molly barking at a GSD (without my consent and I objected immediately) Surely no coincidence that whilst she is now comfortable with most dogs she is still worried by GSD's


As I said before I really appreciate your advise, however, I would also appreciate if you would accept that we have different techniques as I said I am aware that for some dogs this method would be a problem however I have met many dogs where it hasn't been and I am 99% sure Teddy is not one of those, he is a very cleaver dog and he picks things up very quick so i'm sure we won't have to do it for much longer. 

I understand I asked for advise and I have read and listened to all the advise everyone has given me, but I do not think you should be offended if I don't use it nor should you continue to belittle my colleague or myself on our methods. I am totally aware that you are fully entitled to your own opinion and that you wanted to share your negative experiences of this method with me so that I can be fully informed and I am grateful for this information, though, once I have acknowledged your response and thanked you for it I do not believe it is helpful to anyone to insult someone who is very experienced in this line of work and is quite literally a professional. I'm sure the trust is very grateful for their hard work and are completely aware if their methods as they have to make sure that the pups are being very well looked after. There also haven't been any complaints about the dogs in the future when it comes to loud noises so it obviously only affects a very small number of dogs.

Again thank you for your response and advice but I would appreciate very much for you to refrain from commenting any constant negative responses on my future posts though your opinion and advice is always welcome it only needs to be offered once and it is then up to the people you are offering advice to to decide if they want to put it into practice.


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

beckymnd said:


> Hehe for biting we just completely ignore Dexter. He's 13 weeks today & he only nips us if we get in the way of a toy (not purposefully - accidentally... it's our fault for having our hand in the way!) If he nips us we completely cease play, say a firm 'no'. If he continues biting we leave the room without saying anything to him. It seems to have worked fab
> 
> With regards to peeing inside, it really is just a matter of time - but mostly on your part. You'll learn the different signals Teddy will give off to say he needs to go, and eventually he'll only go outside. The only times we accidentally miss a signal from Dexter is when he's playing a LOT with our older Cockapoo, he'll stop dead & just start peeing without any warning! It's our fault though - we should probably take him out mid-play!
> 
> We've introduced the use of doorbells to Dexter now & I'm AMAZED at how he's taken to them! We introduced them last night, and within 2 hours he pawed at them to go outside to pee! Might be worth looking into once he's toiletting more outside! We noticed Dexter was going to the backdoor but we coudln't always spot him, so bells seemed like a good idea. Be sure to introduce them the right way though, so he doesn't just paw at them for a treat, or to go outside to play


That sounds like a brilliant idea Becky, How would you recommend introducing it and is there any in particular you would recommend as he does often go to the door and we aren't sure if it is just to chew my shoes or if he needs to go outside!


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## beckymnd (Oct 17, 2017)

We just picked some generic ones up on Amazon  We introduced them to him in the living room at first, I held them up, and gave him a 'good' & a treat each time he used his paw to ring the bells. He VERY quickly caught on, and was demanding treats in quite quick succession hehe. 

We then removed the bells for a few hours, and re-introduced them to him again. He quickly remembered them and started pawing again, so I hung them up on the back door handle & he rung them - so this time round I gave him just a 'good' & opened the back door & let him into his pee pen we have outside and gave him a treat once he was in his pen. 
The second time he rang them, I let him out & he actually went to pee, so he got showered in treats afterward  

It's a work in progress and I have no clue if this method is the right one, or not, but it seems to be working! We haven't associated the garden with 'play' yet with Dexy, so he only knows it as a place to pee, which I guess helps with unnecessary bell ringing!


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## TeddyCockapoo (Nov 23, 2017)

Sounds good to me I will order one now, Teddy loves to play in the garden as we can't take him for walks yet so its nice for him to get used to outside smells and noises. That could prove difficult with unnecessary ringing but whenever we go outside we wait until he has done a wee before he can go back inside, and as its a little cold and wet at the moment he wants to go back in as quickly as possible so he wee's almost straight away now so hopefully it shouldn't be too bad.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

TeddyCockapoo said:


> Again thank you for your response and advice but I would appreciate very much for you to refrain from commenting any constant negative responses on my future posts though your opinion and advice is always welcome it only needs to be offered once and it is then up to the people you are offering advice to to decide if they want to put it into practice.


Don't worry - I won't bother you with any more advice


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