# Cosmo night 9



## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

My nerves are just frazzled and it's come to the point where I am actually quite rude and v angry with Cosmo. Last night we put him to bed as usual and after 15 odd mins of barking he was quiet. I then had to go to the bathroom myself at 330 and that triggered him off. As soon as he hears a noise from upstairs he kicks off. This time round I went downstairs and let him out. It's makes me so mad that he uses this as an opportunity to hunt slugs scratch himself but not do his business. Well this time he did go for a poo. I thought hallelujah and I put him back in his crate.

15 mins of more barking and he settled and I thought all is well. Well that period only last 30 mins and he was off again. I went back down to hopefully get him to do a wee and I waited outside for 10 mins but no joy. Back in the crate and got 10 more mins of barking followed by 20 mins of peace. Then he was off again. Back down at 530 to a wet torn up crate and him barking like mad. I find him soo annoying and really struggling to deal with it. I thought we would have had a sensible pattern by now, but it's not happening.

Also many many thanks for all the great suggestions and help. His forum and the great peeps that post on it have been invaluable.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

This puppy does not have separation anxiety. 

*HE IS A PUPPY*


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks...have edited the post accordingly after calming down a little...sorry


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## BeckyP (Mar 21, 2012)

Poor you! It so difficult to cope with sleep deprivation. They don't use it as a form of torture for nothing. 

Sorry I can't offer any advice, as we're only on day 4 with Kipper! But hope you can get through it, (and can get a nap!!)


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## Toffin (Aug 8, 2012)

This must be dreadful for you. Reminds me of three years of sleep deprivation following two babies very close together, the second of whom had projectile vomiting and used to feed all night then throw it up across the room. But at least the babies' wees and poos were contained in nappies.

Please don't shoot me down in flames, but have you tried dog appeasement pheromone? It works in some dogs by calming them down and can be used prior to long car journeys, on bonfire night, etc. Comes as a collar or spray. It's just a thought. Some people might be against it in principle.

Have you spoken to your vet to see if they have any suggestions?

Thinking of you,

Toffin


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## TraceyT33 (Jun 25, 2012)

I really do feel for you. It seems you have done all you can and I don't think there is anymore anyone can say, advice wise. You must be fed up of hearing stick with it, but that is all I can say. I can feel your frustrations and I just hope you turn a corner very soon.
xxxx


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## Duckdog (Jul 23, 2012)

Ok so I don't have my puppy as yet so am no expert..so all I can do is think what would I do if I was in your shoes...

I had a quick re-read of the bedtime section (first nights) Gwen Baileys Perfect Puppy book this morning and she says what others on here have already suggested, and that is you are going to have to put Cosmo in your room at night. I have done some more reading around this and it does not lead to long term issues, in fact quite the opposite. From the success stories I have read from people in your exact situation you should only have to do it for a week tops and then Cosmo will start to get it and you can move him futher away at night.

I understand your wife does not want him in the room, and my husband is the same, but we are lucky to have a spare room so I can camp out in there if it comes to it at first. Can you double up your kids and have one of their rooms for a few nights with Cosmo?

Cosmo should settle with you close and then you will get more sleep and be better able to cope and think clearly and not get upset and cross with him. He is a baby..albeit a furry one and it needs tatics and patience...just like when your kids were little.

Lastly if you do not want to do the above then you could try ditching the crate, as others on here have also done. 

Like I said at the start I do not have my puppy yet..but I have always been a firm believer in tried and tested. You seem to have been really up for trying most things suggested except this...unless I missed a thread.

I wish you and Cosmo the best of luck.


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## mary181 (Aug 1, 2012)

Poor you!Hard to believe but it will get better.I have 4 month poo that settled 1st night but I also have 6 year old cocker who was an absolute nightmare at first,she emitted the most dreadful blood curdling howls heard outside of a horror movie,which went on most of the night.
I had 3 dogs prior to her so wasn't inexperienced with dogs and realised she was calling to her mother and litter mates.........didn't make it any easier to listen to.
She is an absolute darling now and was worth listening to every howl to have her here, but I wouldn't have said that at the time.
Please don't beat yourself up for getting annoyed or frustrated with Cosmo,we get annoyed with our partners,children,family members and friends.....doesn't mean we don't love them.If Cosmo was still with his mum and littermates they would get annoyed with him also.
I wish you all the best with Cosmo and most of all I wish you a good nights sleep.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I do feel for you, I have a son who woke up every couple of hours as a baby - actually that has just reminded me that there are times when you may have to change plans according to the situation, I had said my baby (and I'm still talking about the human one) was going to sleep in his own room from day 1 and that I would go in there to feed him, well, after 6 nights of spending most of the night in his room I relented and actually had him in my bed for a couple of months, still didn't sleep much more to be honest but was at least comfortable. So I guess that I'm suggesting you change your plans for the sake of your sanity. I do understand not wanting him in your room as we don't have Dudley in ours, but I know if we had had such a hard time we probably would have tried it. Cosmo is sure to be picking up on your stress and possibly getting mixed messages about what is expected of him, he really is too young to know what you expect of him when you let him out in the night as well, I hope you can sort something out with your wife, surely she is getting disturbed nights as well? Good luck.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

I can totally relate to how you feel and I felt like that many times with my human babies, even when you know what to expect, the sleep deprivation just takes over and can really alter your perception of how you feel about them. I know what you mean about the ear plugs too as although Biscuit has always slept ok at night, I kept taking them in and out all the first night just to make sure! 

When we first got Biscuit, I really didn't want him in my room at first as I thought although it would help him get over his mum and litter mates, he still would have to learn to be alone at some point and if I didn't do it from the first night, would he then just bark for me? However, if I get the same problem as you with our second dog, then by this stage, I think I would be very tempted to try that method just to try and get some sleep and see if it helps or not. Why not try this just tonight and see it there is a real difference or not? I really feel for you but it sounds like you need to take a different approach tonight. x


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

So for the last couple of hours I tired something else. Kept the back door open and left the crate open. He decided to wee on the middle of the floor rather than paper we had left and started to tear up the rug. So as I thought leaving crate door open result in destructive behaviour as he had full opportunity to go outside (which he does perfectly during the day). 

Tonight we have 3 options

1. Continue as is... Puppy pads taped down at back and ignore until 630am
2. Open crate door and back door so he can go out...similar set up as in the day time
3. Take crate up to my room. Do I still take him out if he cries or do I ignore him in this scenario. 

Thoughts?

Thank you all for the help and suggestions. I had a bit of a tantrum this morning and was all ready to rehome him but he's a member of the family and that just wouldn't be right....not this early in the game. But I was hugely tempted due to the rising anger at the situation. Thanks wellerfeller for giving me a slap


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Blackstreet ... sorry dont know your real name  .. please dont give up on your puppy, these feeling are what is known as Puppy Blues (bit like baby blues) as owning a new puppy is hard work, requires constant training and care ... but all your efforts will pay off and you will have a wonderful well mannered adult dog at the end of it ... 

This post may be a good read ...

http://www.mydogslife.co.uk/2012/07/29/your-new-puppy-is-coming-home/

Tonight, do which ever option you think will work best for you and your puppy, you are in charge and you know your puppy better than anyone ... 

Sending you a hug .. I know it can be hard in the early days for some new owners xxx


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## Jmer64 (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry to hear what a tough time you are having and I can relate to your frustration and anger.
However, to me it seems you are inadvertently feeding into his behaviour. Each time he barks you are going to him, reinforcing his habit.
Honestly, having had 2 kids and a cockapoo pup, if you are to break this habit you have two choices:
1. Give in completely and have him in your room, out of the crate, doing as he likes (not my recommendation!) 
2. Go total tough love, put him in his crate with all the usual pre-bed routine, radio, comforters etc that others have advised, say goodnight, shut the door, go to bed and ignore him until morning. Whatever he does. He is safe, secure, warm, fed, and will learn that in time. Yes he may mess but that will be short term.
If you keep responding to him he will become more entrenched and in fact more anxious as you are confirming his thinking he needs you in the night. You are also in danger of losing your temper and starting to actually dislike hi
Believe me I amnot judging, I have been there and this is what works!
Good luck!


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Well I keep saying try him in your bedroom but you just aren't listening! Its not giving in to him it's what a lot of us do when a puppy is young and is desperately missing his siblings. You may find he is fine when he is near you and sleeps peacefully. It's also important to try and remain calm with him as Cosmo will pick up on your stress and it will make him worse.
It may not work but at least give it a go! Remember we are all on your side and have been in the same position!


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## Dextersmum (Feb 9, 2012)

I totally agree Tess. Put the crate in your room. Please try to be more understanding that he is a baby and is not trying to piss you off. He is confused,he doesn't know why he was taken from his littermates and now he doesn't understand why he can be with you in the daytime but has to be on his own at night. Dogs are social animals and I feel sure that he would settle better in your room,in his crate.
With regards to the crying and whether he needs to toilet or not,use your judgement. You should be able to leave at least a couple of hours between toilet visits.

Try to stop seeing him as a really annoying dog but instead as a young pup who needs to be shown how to act.


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks guys. It's hard not loosing my rag at 3am in the morning but I totally appreciate all the feedback. It generally falls into two camps...stick to my guns and wait it out or take the crate upstairs. Going upstairs I'm concerned it will make moving him back down later another big battle so we will try to stick to the original plan and keep him downstairs and ride it out. I have secured down the crate a little bit more so it's fully segregated into a smaller space. So hopefully when he does cry out tonight it should be a toilet break as there is absolutely no way he can do his stuff without sleeping in it. So maybe that will help ensure I go down to the right type of crying. Cheers all again and heres some pix of the lil devil.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

he is a little angel. 
try to project positivity...they feed off your emotions.


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## Dextersmum (Feb 9, 2012)

He is an absolutely gorgeous little chap!

If you put the crate in your room,you will not need to keep it in there forever. It may be a couple of weeks or a couple of months but soon enough you can move the crate out of your room. It just takes a while for him to feel safe and learn a routine. He is not trying to test you,he wants to be with you. If you build up his confidence by having him near you at night you will bond better and soon enough you can move the crate out of your room,perhaps onto the landing and then,downstairs.
We did this with our first dog Dexter and now we are doing it with our second dog Darwin. It works,this is why people keep recommending it. I feel this is the wrong place to stick to your guns.


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## Jmer64 (Mar 20, 2012)

There is plenty of good advice here, all a bit different but the important thing is pick an approach and stick with it. Poor cosmo is a pup, totally confused and reliant on you as pack leader to set boundaries and make it clear what is expected while at the same time reassuring and calming him. It seems a bit that you think he has a plan or is being logical. He isn't. He is trying to make sense of stuff and find his place and it is your job to guide him and reinforce his learning. He is way too new to expect routines and predictability and routine. 
Personally I prefer the tough love but also think the temporarily putting the crate in your room or lopping on the sofa near him is fine too, but be consistent. If you expect a clean closed crate one night then give him free reign the nect he doesn't know what to do! Don't try and guess what he's thinking (he isn't!) and instead set his routine and help him to understand it!


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## Jmer64 (Mar 20, 2012)

Aw, just seen the pics...what a sweetie!
Ps I am writing this from my bedroom where my 'tough love' 6month cockapoo is grinning at me from my bed where she is certainly not allowed!! Once the bond is set and the pup is a real part of the family you can be flexible and have some cheekiness too!


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## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

Oh bless you - such a nightmare. Sleep deprivation is the worst thing. My advice would fall into the keep puppy in crate downstairs routine. What we did was during the day always have the radio on. Then at night it was switched off & a blanket laid ontop of the crate (but not covering the sides totally). We switch the lights out in the kitchen but leave the hall light on for comfort. We never got up to do wees or poo trips at night. He had newspaper in the corner of his crate - would go there & back to his bed to sleep. 

This may or may not have been helpful but what I will say is that before you know it - nature & time will have taken its course & you will not even really remember this time. So deep breaths, glass of wine, chocolate or whatever calms you down & try to stay positive (although hard at 3am !!)
Good luck x


Sent from my iPhone 
Lisa - mum of 3 boys, Dexter Cockapoo & 4 hens !


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

You have been given lots of advice to help you crack this. Everyone does something different but it all works eventually, you just have to pick one way that suits you and stick to it for however long it takes. By swapping and changing you are adding to cosmo's confusion and therefore prolonging the process.
Stick to your guns and be consistent.


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## Scout001 (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi Cosmo's Owner,
I am following your threads with interest as we are getting a pup in 10 days time and, like you, I have done a lot of reading in preparation but I guess nothing can prepare you for reality!

I am not really in the position to offer advice as not done ownership for real yet, but my book said that pups don't like strong artificial smells - in fact it advises to make your home smell as natural as possible (what ever that means!) In your previous posts you said you have been using lots of ambipurs and airwicks - maybe this is not so nice for him at night? Apologies if this sounds stupid, like I say I don't even have a dog yet.

He is a totally handsome little guy, I hope that in a few weeks or months this will all be a distant memory and you will be the one advising other new owners not to give up!

Kind Regards and best wishes for a calmer night tonight x


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Big hugs,the first few weeks can be so hard. I walked around like a zombie for the first few weeks,wondering what we"d done. Then when he sleeps you ll be awake worrying that he"s ok. Making the crate space smaller, just room for a bed may help.... Really not sure. Mine stayed downstairs but I think I d be taking him upstairs at this point just for the sake of sanity... And your marriage, I can just imagine the stress. If we've been away and the dogs have been in with us they have slept soundly and longer in the morning.
Like the lovely pictures show he"s a baby just wondering where you've all gone. Keep strong youll get there, honest, and this stage will be a distant memory xxxxxxx


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## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Cosmo is stunning... I can't believe that cute little face is causing you any trouble at night ...


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks all... I think consistency is key so we will continue with downstairs. 50% on here will be annoyed with me and 50% will agree...! I do think going upstairs at this stage will send the wrong message and cause further confusion. Also will prove to be challenging when we send him back down at a later date. Let's see how we get on, but the crate is now smaller and hopefully any mid night barking will be toilet related and we will get up to see how it goes. I really need calm and patience when this happens and will do my very best. Thanks.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Good luck, nobody will be annoyed, just trying to offer solutions, all opinions are valid, just not all are suitable to everyone's situation, wishing you all the luck for tonight xx


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks gang...will update you all tomorrow.


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## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Good luck, nobody will be annoyed, just trying to offer solutions, all opinions are valid, just not all are suitable to everyone's situation, wishing you all the luck for tonight xx


Yes absolutely - you have to go with what suits your life - but good thing is that people here give great ideas to think about. Will be thinking of you tonight  


Sent from my iPhone 
Lisa - mum of 3 boys, Dexter Cockapoo & 4 hens !


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## Jmer64 (Mar 20, 2012)

No one will be annoyed!
My only concern is about going to him for toilet calls. Is he fully trained in daytime, alerting you to needing to go, never having accidents etc? I can't help thinking it's early days for him to know he needs the loo and to bark to tell you etc. I'm concerned that he barks and you go to him, and that's reinforcing the pattern.
Personally I would toilet him before bed, leave a corner with paper for emergencies in the crate (which he will tear up but so what), and leave well alone til YOU decide it's toilet time, be that a set time in the night (when he is quiet) or first thing in the morning. If you go to him when he barks he will not stop barking!


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## lilaclynda (Jul 24, 2010)

i agree with Karen and Tess i have been following your posts im on poo number 2 ,seriously you have got to chill and not be so wound up take a step back and listen tyo advice ,i had puppy blues first time round ,puppies dont do things on purpose they are like little babies ,its up to us to put the hard work in and be patient ,you have to be consistant ,we are toileting every half hour in the day apart from when we go out for a while , she holds it ,no paper in crate . At night she is with us and has now moved to the landing ,shes toileted last thing at night and sometimes goes till 7 or at the moment till 4am she goes out for a poo and wee . then goes back to bed ,cover the crate , please chill ITS A PUPPY a baby and you will have a great dog when you have got through this ,he is gorgous ,please dont loose your rag with him its not fair .
All the best Lynda x


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

I think you have definitely made the right decision for you. Whether one has their pup next to their bed or downstairs is purely personal choice and there's absolutely no right or wrong to this. I wouldn't want a pup waking up in the night upstairs as hubbie has to be up at 5 every day and works long hours so it's not an option that would work in our house and I wouldn't want a dog on the landing as I'm sure every time one of the family went to the bathroom, it would bark or whine. If the pup is not going to stay upstairs then it is going to have to go through the night alone at some point so now you've started it just stick with it. I think because it was you that decided to get Cosmo you are probably very anxious for it all to work out and not bring any stress to your family and this might be rubbing off on Cosmo so try and be as relaxed as possible about it and I'm sure it will all work out soon. I really feel for your situation and hope you get a better night tonight. x


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Ha ha! Lynda, you and I posted at the same moment and my post sounds like I am contradicting yours....it wasn't meant that way, just my own opinion on what has worked for me with poo no. 1. x


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## Molliemoo (Jul 17, 2012)

He looks the double of my woody...absolutely gorgeous. 

I'm glad you have decided to make the crate smaller. I really do think it will help with the mess situation. He will love his new cosy den. place an item of clothing in with him that has your sent on. Don't bother with paper or pads. 
Take him to the garden for his business straight before bed. Then straight to the crate and don't talk to him as you do this. Leave him till morning. He will soon learn to hold it as he should want to lay in his own mess!
I really do feel for you. Fingers crossed tonight will be lots better. Good luck. Can't wait to hear about it tomorrow xx


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## Molliemoo (Jul 17, 2012)

*shoudnt want to lay in his own mess


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## Kody&Beau (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi,

I too agree with Karen,Tess & Lynda...all puppies are different some accept that they sleep downstairs and take to it straight away or within a few days & some like my first Beau just don't I tried to get Beau to sleep downstairs in a playpen, tried everything covering it etc, I couldn't let her cry it out it broke my heart to hear her and after the 3rd night of no sleep I decided it was not going to work and took her pen upstairs in my room from then on never heard a peep from her and she stopped needing a toilet in the night very shortly after. In my opinion 9 nights of your pup getting obviously distressed is just not fair he really isn't taking to be left alone at night he's scared and getting distressed this is why he's frantically clawing at the pads and soiling his crate. I'm sorry I don't believe in the tough love approach as others have said he's a baby all he's known up until now is his mum & siblings around him at night and quite simply he's finding it difficult to settle without their comfort at night time, if you try putting his crate in your room at least you have tried one night cannot hurt surely just to see if he shows improvement can it? And if it works then as he grows used to his surroundings and his new family you can gradually move him until one day he's used to the downstairs to sleep. I will say that at this age most pups will need to go out to wee in the night and possibly poo wherever they are it's essential you take them out to toilet, they do not like wetting and pooing in their sleeping quarters no matter how big or small a crate you have. Forcing them to do so by leaving them until the morning only heightens their distress and to be honest I feel it's cruel to expect him to sleep in a soiled crate. Also as a few others have said try not to be angry with him it will most definitely make him worse and wary of you. It's up to you the advise you decide to go with but for this little pup and have to say he is one gorgeous little boy the tough love approach I'm afraid is not the way not after 9 nights he should be showing signs of settling by now. Wish you luck in whatever you decide to do. 

Jo


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Sorry only just picked up on your threads. Loads of advice. You know he could sleep outside your bedroom door, with the door open. Or in your bedroom and gradually as he settles over the next few weeks, move the crate further away from you to eventually it is outside the bedroom door.

I did the opposite to you, I crate trained downstairs and then once Millie was toilet trained I got rid of the crate and moved Millie upstairs !!!

I don't know if this has been mentioned in previous threads of yours. But make the crate like a den, cover it so three sides and the top are covered.

On last thing. Whatever you have been wearing today, put in the crate with Cosmo - he needs to smell you to feel close. Whether you have him upstairs or downstairs, he needs your scent.


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Noone is going to be annoyed with you but possibly frustrated that you are asking for advice but not even trying it when you are already considering rehoming Cosmo.


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

Please ignore the rehoming statement. That was born from pure frustration, sleep deprivation and anger. We will try the bedroom but I want to be as consistent as possible and right now he has sleep through to 02.42! My wife is with him now and we have woke him up to do his stuff rather than than the other way round. So a minor success tonight. Let's see if he goes back to sleep now


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## Blackstreet (Jun 15, 2012)

The plan is bedroom on sat if this doesn't work.


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Hurrah!!!!


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## TraceyT33 (Jun 25, 2012)

thinking about you all hoping you have had a better night x


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## Kody&Beau (Aug 18, 2012)

That's brilliant I hope he went to sleep again after, perhaps tonight try and see if he wakes naturally at around this time then you will know this is approx the time he needs to go to the toilet and go to him when he wakes up take him out to toilet give him lots of praise but then quietly put him back in the crate, you never know he may go longer than 3 ish, I was surprised last night I woke to Kody crying and automatically got up to take him for wee thinking it was 3 ish as ths has been his time since we had him and was pleasantly surprised when I looked at the clock it was 5 am wow I had 6 hrs continuous sleep. 

Jo x


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi, only just catching up on this thread and just wanted to show you some support and to stick with it. It is so hard right now but in a few months time once the main puppy phase is over you will look back and laugh at this bed time antics. I'm not going to chip in with what I would do as it sounds like you have made a plan to work to so go with it and see. If it doesn't work change it until you find what works for you. I would say however that wherever you put Cosmos crate that you must not respond to his crying every time. One toilet break is all that is needed (if at all in some cases). Good luck!


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