# Weight again after Spay



## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi everyone, happy Friday to you all 
So Doris had her keyhole spay and just had the staples out today. She was back to her normal happy self after a few days and for the last couple of days I've been letting her run around off lead again which she LOVES 
The vet gave me a pretty hard core speech about weight gain after being spayed and how this will happen very quickly. She advised me to switch to Royal Canin who do a dry food specifically for spayed dogs because it's easy to regulate and the ingredients are consistent! I told her that I fed Doris Lily's Kitchen kibble with some Lily's Kitchen wet food mixed in and that the ingredients were organic and how I had done a LOT of research on which foods were best. I also said that Royal Canin didn't rate very highly on any of the sites I had looked at which compare dog foods. Doris weighs 8kg at 6 months old and she's advised me to feed her the recommended amount for a dog that weighs 6kg.
Does anyone have any advice please?  x


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I do NOT agree with this vet. I did not change Lola's amounts and she didn't put on weight, except for what she needed to put on because she was still growing. As long as you can feel ribs, see a waist and she's active, that's all you need to worry about. Keep the exercise up and don't overfeed. That's all you need to do. Do not change her to RC, what a pile of pants! Nutritionally feeding her less is not a good idea, she is still growing and will continue to grow and fill out/gain muscle over the next 9-12 months. 

Continue as you are doing, keep a close eye on how she looks and feels under all that fluff and do not take heed of that vet.

Im like a broken record, vets who haven't got an interest in nutrition do not really know what they are on about, otherwise they wouldn't recommend a manufactured processed food full of chemicals. It's beyond me. Honestly.

I read up a lot on weight post spay because, I couldn't understand the logic with the putting on weight thing. So what actually happens is, that the change in hormones can make a female dog think they are hungry all the time, so they ask for food and humans give it to them. More food = putting on weight. The issue is the human factor, not the spay factor 

Okay rant over!


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

That's not very inspiring advice is it....I wonder if all dog owners are advised to use that food after spaying (that would be quite a lot of commission eh?). Sorry but I'm cynical when pushed towards a particular product rather than just given impartial advice.
So glad to hear that Doris is doing so well yippee!


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks Ruth, that was my understanding as well! This nurse said she had never heard of the food I'm feeding Doris and I tried to explain how nutritionally brilliant it is (especially compared to Royal Canin) I see this stuff in all the Vets I've been to, they must have some kind of partnership thing with Royal Canin because I'm not sure why else they would recommend it over every other brand. If I had told her I was feeding Doris tins of rubbish from the supermarket as well as biscuits and cake when I felt like it I would understand! It's incredible really that they can give out this advice without really being very well informed.


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

Mazzapoo said:


> That's not very inspiring advice is it....I wonder if all dog owners are advised to use that food after spaying (that would be quite a lot of commission eh?). Sorry but I'm cynical when pushed towards a particular product rather than just given impartial advice.
> So glad to hear that Doris is doing so well yippee!


Me too Marion, I felt like I was doing something wrong by not going with her suggestion to switch to a Royal Canin! I never even knew you could get food specifically for post spay!!!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

lisaj said:


> Thanks Ruth, that was my understanding as well! This nurse said she had never heard of the food I'm feeding Doris and I tried to explain how nutritionally brilliant it is (especially compared to Royal Canin) I see this stuff in all the Vets I've been to, they must have some kind of partnership thing with Royal Canin because I'm not sure why else they would recommend it over every other brand. If I had told her I was feeding Doris tins of rubbish from the supermarket as well as biscuits and cake when I felt like it I would understand! It's incredible really that they can give out this advice without really being very well informed.


They buy the food and sell it for a profit. Or they sell it with a good commission. Depends on the type of contract they have.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

lisaj said:


> Me too Marion, I felt like I was doing something wrong by not going with her suggestion to switch to a Royal Canin! I never even knew you could get food specifically for post spay!!!


Good for you for sticking to your guns! Hopefully the vet nurse has gone off to read up on her food!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I had a lecture when Chance was spayed too - particularly emphasising she was a lab cross and they are "all overweight" I was offended at the time as I have never had an overweight dog and do not intend to start now just because I have a different type!!

Having thought more though I am pleased they are starting to give some weight advice even if pushing a food like this seems well over the top and poor advice to switch from a good quality food you are already feeding.

So many of the dogs I see out and about are overweight at young ages I find it quite sad - particularly pups we have seen in puppy class who then are turned into overweight unfit adults  I meet so many who are puffing along at relatively young ages that I wish all vets were brutally honest about dogs weight.

(I am also occasionally blunt with people I know well enough and will tell them if I consider their dog to be gaining weight  )


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

2ndhandgal said:


> I had a lecture when Chance was spayed too - particularly emphasising she was a lab cross and they are "all overweight" I was offended at the time as I have never had an overweight dog and do not intend to start now just because I have a different type!!
> 
> Having thought more though I am pleased they are starting to give some weight advice even if pushing a food like this seems well over the top and poor advice to switch from a good quality food you are already feeding.
> 
> ...


I agree! 

There is a massive gap in learning in relation to nutrition all round but I think vets should be educating owners on the dangers of over feeding, feeding wrong foods, sugary foods, human junk food etc and that all the titbits mount up. 

I think all vet surgeries need a vet or vet nurse with a special interest in nutrition to go through proper training and to educate other professionals and owners.

Cat diabetes is now being successfully treated by a carb free diet - amazing and just goes to show what we are saying about less grain and sugar is correct. I think they are starting to realise but it needs pushed out and plugged to owners and general population.


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

2ndhandgal said:


> I had a lecture when Chance was spayed too - particularly emphasising she was a lab cross and they are "all overweight" I was offended at the time as I have never had an overweight dog and do not intend to start now just because I have a different type!!
> 
> Having thought more though I am pleased they are starting to give some weight advice even if pushing a food like this seems well over the top and poor advice to switch from a good quality food you are already feeding.
> 
> ...


I agree that it's good for them to highlight the potential risks of weight gain, but they really need to read up the different foods available now and perhaps read up on the nutritional value of the food they're plugging! 
I'll make sure Doris doesn't get fat just incase I bump in to you


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

lisaj said:


> I agree that it's good for them to highlight the potential risks of weight gain, but they really need to read up the different foods available now and perhaps read up on the nutritional value of the food they're plugging!
> I'll make sure Doris doesn't get fat just incase I bump in to you


Absolutely - they should know about the range of foods out there and recognise when an owner has done the research and is feeding a decent food.

The last owner I mentioned it to said the dog was fluffy and would be a different dog when clipped  I pointed out Molly was far fluffier than a cocker spaniel and did not prevent me feeling her body condition through the fluff and the dog would still be fat even with a shorter coat  they are still speaking to me


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

My vets advice was great when Dudley was done, ok I know he is a boy but i'm sure it would be the same, she said it would be totally my fault if he put on weight after being neutered! she said dogs need not put on weight and only do if they are overfed, she explained it is tempting to do this as they seem so much more hungry for a while and this was true, before then Dudley had always eaten what he needed, sometimes leaving some, sometimes looking for more ,and I usually gave him a little more as he seemed to judge it right. Suddenly I felt cruel not giving him more when he obviously wanted more - even if his waistline was telling me he didn't need it! Mind you since changing to raw he would definitely keep eating more if I gave it to him.


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## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Some vets have strange ideas on nutrition! I have done loads of research on it as I expect most of us have. Lily's Kitchen is a very good choice. Bonnie put on a little weight after her spay. It was simple to give her just a little less food I don't know what the fuss is about, she is the perfect weight now.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

DB1 said:


> My vets advice was great when Dudley was done, ok I know he is a boy but i'm sure it would be the same, she said it would be totally my fault if he put on weight after being neutered! she said dogs need not put on weight and only do if they are overfed, she explained it is tempting to do this as they seem so much more hungry for a while and this was true, before then Dudley had always eaten what he needed, sometimes leaving some, sometimes looking for more ,and I usually gave him a little more as he seemed to judge it right. Suddenly I felt cruel not giving him more when he obviously wanted more - even if his waistline was telling me he didn't need it! Mind you since changing to raw he would definitely keep eating more if I gave it to him.


Exactly. The human factor. It causes all the problems


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I will ask my vet friend what the "partner benefits" offered at Royal Canin are exactly. It sounds very suspicious to me and would not surprise me if the incentives are of a commercial nature. It does say they offer free puppy packs to breeders, also suspicious and a clear case of trying to buy brand loyalty early on, but many dog food companies do this.

None of this to say that anything about their food is bad, just that I think it is likely profit driven, which many of us would mistakenly assume should not motivate a vet. Like doctors getting free cruises for pushing certain medications on the patients it is all quite suspect to me.

On the other hand, maybe it is fair enough that the company tries to recoup the cost for the medical diets they have created, like the kidney diet and so forth?


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

fairlie said:


> I will ask my vet friend what the "partner benefits" offered at Royal Canin are exactly. It sounds very suspicious to me and would not surprise me if the incentives are of a commercial nature. It does say they offer free puppy packs to breeders, also suspicious and a clear case of trying to buy brand loyalty early on, but many dog food companies do this.
> 
> None of this to say that anything about their food is bad, just that I think it is likely profit driven, which many of us would mistakenly assume should not motivate a vet. Like doctors getting free cruises for pushing certain medications on the patients it is all quite suspect to me.
> 
> On the other hand, maybe it is fair enough that the company tries to recoup the cost for the medical diets they have created, like the kidney diet and so forth?


I guess if weight gain post spay is such a common occurrence, then some of the brands will do a special food to cash in on it like you say. I think It was just the way that she pretty much insisted that I should buy the Royal Canin and made it sound so serious, like Doris would absolutely become overweight if I kept feeding her as normal. 
The nurse also said that she would like to see Doris in 3 months time to check her weight, and that she would like it if she wasn't any heavier than she was yesterday! I have to say I'm usually really happy with the vet there, and this lady was a different one. Doris is 8kg at 6 months, surely this is about average? 
:question:


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## Lottierachel (Mar 3, 2013)

If Doris hasn't gained any weight in 3 months, I would be a little concerned about her!! Obviously it depends on her build and height etc. but at 6 months, Tilly was 10.3kg.

3 months later she weighed 12.5kg. Because she was still a growing puppy, not because she had put on weight because of her spay.

We ended up at the vets quite a few times over this summer for various reasons, and I asked on one occasion if her weight was okay and the vet said it "couldn't be more perfect". My vet does it more on feel (ribs, waist etc.) than actual weight.

Stick with your Lily's kitchen and just keep a really close eye on her weight


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

Lottierachel said:


> If Doris hasn't gained any weight in 3 months, I would be a little concerned about her!! Obviously it depends on her build and height etc. but at 6 months, Tilly was 10.3kg.
> 
> 3 months later she weighed 12.5kg. Because she was still a growing puppy, not because she had put on weight because of her spay.
> 
> ...



I agree completely, it has to be by how they feel and look etc (perhaps not so much look if they have a chunky fluffy coat!) for their ideal weight as an individual, because they are all different. There is always going to be more variety in a cross breed depending on what body shape they inherit etc. Also as people have said here in other threads you can't always go by what the bag says either in feeding guidelines. When we fed Gandhi what it said by the calculation he was underweight, so we just experimented til we got it right.


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

The person who weighed Doris has no idea of what her adult weight/build will be. Surely she must know that they continue to fill out and develop their musculoskeletal system up until 18 months. To expect no weight gain in 3 months is completely unrealistic. I just don't get this vet/vet nurse at all.

A note on the post spay royal canin - this food will only work if humans aren't adding extras, titbits and scraps. It's like any medication, you also have to adjust your lifestyle. Better to educate on proper food, and less junk! I despair!


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

I know this is Daily Mail and it should be read with a certain scepticism but this article does mention vets and food a bit and attempts to add an opinion on why vets push certain foods. 
Interestingly to article does say that vets do not give enough independent advice. Which is something I agree with http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ure-feeding-pet-killing--making-vet-rich.html


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

That is madness to suggest she should be the same weight at 6 months as 9 months  some dogs will and others won't as they will still be maturing.

Off to see if I can see what Chance weighed at 6 months 

Edited to add - just looked and I don't have her weight at 6 months but she has stayed pretty much the same weight since 7 months - 16kg!!


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

RuthMill said:


> I know this is Daily Mail and it should be read with a certain scepticism but this article does mention vets and food a bit and attempts to add an opinion on why vets push certain foods.
> Interestingly to article does say that vets do not give enough independent advice. Which is something I agree with http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ure-feeding-pet-killing--making-vet-rich.html


Wow! This is a really interesting article which confirms what some of us thought about why they push certain brands. It makes sense that chemicals and additives and the whole process of making dog food a 'convenience' food, kills any nutrients and causes all sorts of health problems. 
I think I'll have another read up on the food comparison sites and put my mind at rest. This is screaming 'go raw' to me! X


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

lisaj said:


> Wow! This is a really interesting article which confirms what some of us thought about why they push certain brands. It makes sense that chemicals and additives and the whole process of making dog food a 'convenience' food, kills any nutrients and causes all sorts of health problems.
> I think I'll have another read up on the food comparison sites and put my mind at rest. This is screaming 'go raw' to me! X


I hope no one thinks I was plugging raw, although now I think it's great, I would never try to persuade others. It took me two years to make the move. I think that a good quality wet food is really good too. I think it would kill me to ever go back to kibble. My cat is on kibble and I am going to swap her to nutriment now too. She adores tuna and the odd tray of wet food she gets as a treat, she loves. The more I think of her, the more I feel guilty because the dogs are getting the best I can give them and yet poor Meg is still eating cardboard  albeit, good cardboard in the grand scheme of cat cardboard.


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

2ndhandgal said:


> That is madness to suggest she should be the same weight at 6 months as 9 months  some dogs will and others won't as they will still be maturing.
> 
> Off to see if I can see what Chance weighed at 6 months
> 
> Edited to add - just looked and I don't have her weight at 6 months but she has stayed pretty much the same weight since 7 months - 16kg!!


Thanks for this, I didn't think it made any sense either! I agree with Grove that they are all different and there isn't a hard and fast rule that fits every poo! X


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## lisaj (Mar 29, 2013)

Grove said:


> I agree completely, it has to be by how they feel and look etc (perhaps not so much look if they have a chunky fluffy coat!) for their ideal weight as an individual, because they are all different. There is always going to be more variety in a cross breed depending on what body shape they inherit etc. Also as people have said here in other threads you can't always go by what the bag says either in feeding guidelines. When we fed Gandhi what it said by the calculation he was underweight, so we just experimented til we got it right.


Thanks Grove, I absolutely agree 
I'm not sure about the guidelines either, will keep an eye on her and make sure I'm not starving the poor girl! Big love to Gandhi from Doris x


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## Grove (Oct 17, 2012)

lisaj said:


> Thanks Grove, I absolutely agree
> I'm not sure about the guidelines either, will keep an eye on her and make sure I'm not starving the poor girl! Big love to Gandhi from Doris x


I think your instincts are all right 

Gandhi says hello too


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## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

I know I haven't been on here in a while, but was looking around the forum.

Piper was spayed at 6 months and I never change what she was eating. I even change her to "adult" food probably sooner then what was recommended. And she did grow quick a bit after her spay, but never got fat.

I think it's more in "what" you feed them. I keep to organic and non processed dog foods. Even give her raw when I can afford it. And she is lean and fit. She has topped out at 17 pounds.

I personally was never told what to feed Piper after her spay. My mobile vet and the county pound never said anything about what to feed her. Marion county animal shelter is where we got her fixed. 

Also my dogs I had growing up were all fixed and never gained weight until they got older. Then they didn't gain that much. 

I think us "pet" parents need to stick to what we know is best for our little ones.


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## Lexi&Beemer (May 5, 2013)

Lexi and Beemer haven't been overweight but at their annual checkup, the vet said she could stand to lose a pound but definitely don't let her gain more. Whereas Beemer could stand to put on a pound or two because he was too lean. My vet does it by feel. Frankly I had been giving them less than the recommended amounts because their tummies couldn't handle more. It wasn't until I switched to raw that Lexi leaned out and Beemer bulked up some and they both eat more than the 2% of body weight. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RuthMill (Jun 30, 2012)

Lexi&Beemer said:


> Lexi and Beemer haven't been overweight but at their annual checkup, the vet said she could stand to lose a pound but definitely don't let her gain more. Whereas Beemer could stand to put on a pound or two because he was too lean. My vet does it by feel. Frankly I had been giving them less than the recommended amounts because their tummies couldn't handle more. It wasn't until I switched to raw that Lexi leaned out and Beemer bulked up some and they both eat more than the 2% of body weight.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You see so this proves that each dog is individual and you have to go by feel. Two dogs who are fed the same and pretty much have the same activity levels can have different body make ups and therefore need different adjustments depending on their shape and feel.


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