# E-Fences



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

I have been going back and forth on weather to do an E-Fence. In our neighborhood no fences are allowed. Not because of aesthetics, but due to our neighborhood being an aviation neighborhood and right aways for the planes. Most neighborhoods of this type do not allow fences. At least the ones I have seen. 

So most people where we live have the e-fences for their dogs. And they seem to do well with them. Some of these dogs are rescues also. Does anyone on here use an E-Fence with your Cockapoo and do they do well with it?

By they way I did try searching for this subject on this forum but didn't find anything. I have seen this talked about on other dogs forums though.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

yes i have had my fence for three different dogs..and it works just fin ..ginger seems to like it she can run to her heart content,and she is smart after the very first day she learned right where it was and don't seemed the least bit bothered by it
,but you have to remember it keeps your dog in but it does not stop wild animals or other dogs from coming in OK


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Thanks Sugarlump. Yea I will still watch our dog. I have seen that dogs do pick up really quickly on where the fence is at. We have a gated community, which only has about 50 homes. So not a lot of car traffic unless a house is being built. Plus we are about 1 miles away from any major highways.

Frankly I don't see any stray dogs, at least I haven't seen any. Which seems unusually as the neighborhood I grew up in had a lot of stray dogs and still does... 

The only dog that runs to our house now is my next door neighbor's new puppy that's an Dachshund... LOL The only thing that dog will do is lick you to death.

The A is where our house is at. So it's a pretty open neigborhood.









As what age did you start to train Ginger with it?


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

i think i first put the coller on her at 4 1/2 months,but at 5 months she all ready knew where the line was cause when she was 5 i checked the battery in her coller and it was dead so she was out there for a week or so with it off LOL


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

I am curious to know what an e-fence is exactly.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

well i will try to explain it ok.you buy a kit or you can have it installed,it is much cheaper to do it your self.the kit comes with a coil of wire,and a transmitter.you hang the transmitter some where on one side of you home ,,and you connect one end of the wire to the transmitter,and you take the wire and run it all the way around your house and connect the other end to the transmitter.then you put the collar on your dog ,,it also comes with little flags,you put them on the wire in the ground so you and your dog knows right where the wire is,now you take your dog up to the wire SLOWLY.till it buzzes.your dog will usually back away, if she don't and goes father she will get a low voltage mild shock. and that will make her back up.,now take her to a lot of different places around your house and let her feel the buzz ONLY,.do this a few times to get her used to it ok .then turn her lose ,she should go to the wire and feel the buzz (which is not a shock),she can hear it and feel the vibration from it.and she should back away .if she don't she then will get a shock.you can set the distance between the buzz and the shock as much as you like. ok i hope you can understand that


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Nope - totally barbaric things which should be banned in my opinion. If the dog crosses the line they get an electric shock. Quite rightly banned on welfare grounds in Wales and hopefully the rest of the UK will catch up soon.

Thoughts from the APBC:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/blog/ethics_of_pet_containment_fences

Another article here - and worth noting that despite the fence the dog repeatedly escaped anyway - comdemmed by both the RSPCA and kennel club:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pets/8646521/Owner-who-put-electric-shock-collar-on-dog-is-fined-2000.html


----------



## Jack Spaniel (Jul 6, 2012)

When I was on holiday in Florida a couple of years ago and needing some time off from Mickey Mouse we went out to a 'huntin, shootin and fishin' supermarket. It was an amazing placed, as big as a large Tesco with shelves packed with guns, ammunition, bows, crossbows, arrows, traps etc.etc. Lots of boats, outboards, camouflage clothes to wear when hunting animals and platforms you could bolt up into trees so you could hide and wait for your prey. There was also a shooting range where you could shoot at 'pop up' animals, and kids as young as ten years old were banging away. Can you imagine such an establishment in the UK?.... absolute outrage.
The point I am making is that the UK has a quite unique attitude when it comes to animals and these 'shock tactics' are acceptable in most countries. We on the other hand ban hunting, run donkey sanctuarys, give millions to animal welfare organisations and have a violent reaction to any perceived cruelty to animals. No dancing bears, crippled donkeys or e-fences for us.


----------



## Lozzie (Apr 1, 2012)

I really don't want to join in because this has quickly become a very contentious topic but Kim was asking a question and Lumpy has answered it so I think that maybe we should leave it at that. Kim has a unique problem which we don't have in the UK in that she is not allowed fences. Lumpy has experience of this feature which is not illegal in the US. I think it should be left at that and maybe the thread should be closed before it turns into an argument.


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Ok sorry I was only asking what it was!


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Lozzie yes I agree. Although I would *LIKE* to respond, but don't think it will be good.

Thanks again Lumpy for your response.


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Kim where abouts are you in Florida, I'm looking at a holiday in Miami sometime this year. Never heard of plane communities, most intriguing. I can see why you are looking at e-fencing, you have to keep your dogs safe somehow.


----------



## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

MillieDog said:


> Kim where abouts are you in Florida, I'm looking at a holiday in Miami sometime this year. Never heard of plane communities, most intriguing. I can see why you are looking at e-fencing, you have to keep your dogs safe somehow.


I keep waiting on your new avator pic Julie   

xxx


----------



## JasperBlack (Sep 1, 2012)

Lozzie, I read this this morning. We need to appreciate that circumstances are different in other parts of the world and in an environment where fences are not allowed what other options are there for keeping dogs secure and safe! But I agree best not to debate this  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

I dont think theres anything wrong with a little HEALTHY debate... As long as no one is being specifically targeted etc. It's people's own choice as to whether they choose to participate/ read the thread or not. 

I suppose its keeping control of the issue in hand and not letting it get out of control that is the problem ... Who would be a moderator??!!  

People should be given the chance to speak up and defend their actions.... I'm sure Lumpy will want to defend his decision re the fence 

xxx


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

MillieDog said:


> Kim where abouts are you in Florida, I'm looking at a holiday in Miami sometime this year. Never heard of plane communities, most intriguing. I can see why you are looking at e-fencing, you have to keep your dogs safe somehow.


We live near Ocala, so would be a bit of drive from Miami. Like 5 hours, I have done the drive LOL... We have the Ocala Forest right down the road from us. We can take you up in the plane, but would be a bit of drive... LOL Have fun on your vacation...

P.S. we have about 60 other aviation communities Florida.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

After having a few hours to "calm" down this is my view....

The only thing I don't like when people make generalized statements based on going in to a store the deals with people that do hunt or fish. I lived in Florida my whole life. And some areas of Florida hunting is a part of life for some people. Which is done under control rules and laws. I personally do not hunt, but wouldn't stop someone from doing so as long as they respect rules with hunting animals. Like we have a hunting season for alligators to "control" the population of those animals. 

I think people need to understand that I personally if I could have a "regular" fence I would. And frankly regular fence will not even keep some dogs in the yard. Is an e-fence for everyone or every dog of course not. But seeing how it works for some of our neighbors dogs I thought it would be a good alternative. And non of these dogs show any fear because of the fence. But no one here has an Cockapoo and I wanted to see how an cockapoo did with the e-fence. I did find the answer thanks to Sugarlump.


As for the cruel and unusual treatment then the same could be said for spaying and neutering animals. Which I did see that commented on another forum.


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi all, just wanted to say that as with the forum as a whole we do keep an eye on everything. I don't think there is anything wrong with any post with in this thread. It's fine to disagree and have different opinions. It's good to hear what different people think! So long as its kept civil and no one is being rude, then post away people. 
The forum would be very boring if we all thought and said the same thing.


----------



## JasperBlack (Sep 1, 2012)

I must admit though, it is intriguing to see the different approaches and views!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JasperBlack (Sep 1, 2012)

Florida Cockapoo said:


> After having a few hours to "calm" down this is my view....
> 
> The only thing I don't like when people make generalized statements based on going in to a store the deals with people that do hunt or fish. I lived in Florida my whole life. And some areas of Florida hunting is a part of life for some people. Which is done under control rules and laws. I personally do not hunt, but wouldn't stop someone from doing so as long as they respect rules with hunting animals. Like we have a hunting season for alligators to "control" the population of those animals.
> 
> ...


I'm really glad you came back with your very valid points! I can understand your dilemma and thanks to lumpy you have an idea of how it works for ginger! It is unusual to hear of this method for a dog here in the uk as our situations are quite different! I love the aerial view of you community,very different from the area we live in. Hope you find the best solution to suit you and your dog when he arrives  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

Florida Cockapoo said:


> After having a few hours to "calm" down this is my view....
> 
> The only thing I don't like when people make generalized statements based on going in to a store the deals with people that do hunt or fish. I lived in Florida my whole life. And some areas of Florida hunting is a part of life for some people. Which is done under control rules and laws. I personally do not hunt, but wouldn't stop someone from doing so as long as they respect rules with hunting animals. Like we have a hunting season for alligators to "control" the population of those animals.
> 
> ...


Hi Kim, 

If I read Kevin (jack Spaniel's) post correctly , I don't think he was criticising the methods used in the States... Quite the contrary infact!! 

I think he was just highlighting how very different things are across the pond from here but in no way as a criticism. 

xxx


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

There are always choices in everything we do and I am aware of cultural differences. 

In the UK people own dogs and live in flats or apartments and take their dogs out on leads each time - not as convenient as just opening a door but perfectly possible. 

Although I have always lived in properties with well fenced gardens when I first got Molly I had been without a dog for many months and unknown to me a hedgehog had built a nest and had babies and Molly made it quite clear she would not leave the nest alone. I had choices then - relocating the nest would have meant almost certain death for the babies as would letting Molly attack the nest as she wished to do. My personal choice then was to take her out into the garden on a lead every time she went out for months until I was sure the nest was no longer used and Moll had learned enough manners to behave when she was asked to and leave the nest and any hedgehogs she found alone.


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

mairi1 said:


> I keep waiting on your new avator pic Julie
> 
> xxx


I know, I was thinking that only yesterday. But you wouldn't believe how much trouble I had changing pics to this Christmas one.  I'll give it a go.

By the way, how did the other latex squeaky balls go with Molly?


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

JasperBlack said:


> I'm really glad you came back with your very valid points! I can understand your dilemma and thanks to lumpy you have an idea of how it works for ginger! It is unusual to hear of this method for a dog here in the uk as our situations are quite different! I love the aerial view of you community,very different from the area we live in. Hope you find the best solution to suit you and your dog when he arrives


LOL you would think now-a-days towns and cities are starting to look the same....  Now with Google you can see any neighborhood.... Would be nice to see yours..


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

2ndhandgal said:


> There are always choices in everything we do and I am aware of cultural differences.
> 
> In the UK people own dogs and live in flats or apartments and take their dogs out on leads each time - not as convenient as just opening a door but perfectly possible.
> 
> Although I have always lived in properties with well fenced gardens when I first got Molly I had been without a dog for many months and unknown to me a hedgehog had built a nest and had babies and Molly made it quite clear she would not leave the nest alone. I had choices then - relocating the nest would have meant almost certain death for the babies as would letting Molly attack the nest as she wished to do. My personal choice then was to take her out into the garden on a lead every time she went out for months until I was sure the nest was no longer used and Moll had learned enough manners to behave when she was asked to and leave the nest and any hedgehogs she found alone.


I understand your reasoning, but what you are comparing to is an inconvenience for a couple of months. Whereas Kim and Lumpy are in need of a solution that covers the life span of their cockapoo's (hopefully 10years plus). 

They have an outdoor space that should be used. They way Lumpy explained how to use the fence makes total sense. Dogs are not stupid. Lumpy is not asking his dog to walk into the fence every day and zap him with an electric current. The dog learns very quickly to stay within the boundary.

The buzzing sound is a very good warning that they are getting too close and therefore doesn't have to get zapped to know the end of the boundary.

I keep thinking the electric fence is a bit like a 9V battery that as kids we put on our tongue !


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes On ILMC seems people are easier to talk to then I have seen on some dog forums.


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

There are countless videos on youtube of people trying shock collars - just chosen at random - but not something I would do to my dog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOInLQcRE8c

The only way this is going to work is if the dog experiences a shock enough to hurt it will want to avoid. For some dogs that will not be enough to prevent them going through the barrier anyway - as in the case of the link I provided in my first post. The dog was wearing a collar and repeatedly escaped from the garden. Strong prey drive might be enough to cause a dog to break through this and ignore the pain - but once they have chased they can not come back into the garden without again getting shocked.

As I said people make their own choices and personally I would rather keep a dog on lead in my garden for life than subject it to one of these. 

If a dog when grown up was sufficiently well trained and always supervised anyway and traffic is as low as suggested there is no reason why the space can not be used for off lead play without this system is there?


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

2ndhandgal I agree we have had to that with our cat. Kept her inside the house when a Mocking bird decide to make an nest where our cat hangs out. So she was kept inside. I have no problem doing that, but it is short term. 



> If a dog when grown up was sufficiently well trained and always supervised anyway and traffic is as low as suggested there is no reason why the space can not be used for off lead play without this system is there?


As for the manners of the dog, I do plan on doing training classes. Yes the e-fence may not even be needed, but will have see how our dog does just on training.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Oh to have so much room. Julie I bet you put your tongue on the inside of the freezer as well


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Why are fences not allowed in aviation areas? This has puzzled me as my husband being ex RAF most of my married life was spent living on or near airfields and all the houses had fencing. Tis a puzzlement. In order to keep your dog safe it seems to me it's either a tether or an e fence. To be able to open your back door and let your dog out into the garden is a joy. To know when you do that, that your dog is safe and secure is a privilege and one that most of us take for granted. If this is not an option then you need to find alternative methods.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Cat 53 said:


> Why are fences not allowed in aviation areas? This has puzzled me as my husband being ex RAF most of my married life was spent living on or near airfields and all the houses had fencing. Tis a puzzlement. In order to keep your dog safe it seems to me it's either a tether or an e fence. To be able to open your back door and let your dog out into the garden is a joy. To know when you do that, that your dog is safe and secure is a privilege and one that most of us take for granted. If this is not an option then you need to find alternative methods.


I can't comment for all aviation neighborhoods. But where we live all our roads are taxi ways. So the developer put it in our deed restriction to make sure there was no obstructions for taxing airplanes, if you had to pass someone else it can be done safely. Our streets signs are only less then two feet tall or some where around that. Some of the homes the back yards are on the runways. Ours doesn't but does or will in the future back up to someone's hangar, once built. So part of our back yard is right of way for that persons hangar and plane.

We do have a have a nice size court yard in the front of our house. We only need to add an gate. We can let our dog out there and make it in to a sort of puppy play ground. Of course that wouldn't be his only form of exercise. 

Frankly the tether ideal is a great ideal... Would be much cheaper then an e-fence too.

Did your husband fly for the RAF?


----------



## Jack Spaniel (Jul 6, 2012)

Firstly I must say I am delighted that people have decided it is OK to debate this subject. I am a firm believer that the forum can only be enhanced by open discussion as long as the tone remains respectful at all times.
My earlier comments were in no way meant as a criticism of the American way, I was only hoping to demonstrate the difference in the cultures of our two countries. 

Apologies if I offended anyone.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Jack Spaniel said:


> Firstly I must say I am delighted that people have decided it is OK to debate this subject. I am a firm believer that the forum can only be enhanced by open discussion as long as the tone remains respectful at all times.
> My earlier comments were in no way meant as a criticism of the American way, I was only hoping to demonstrate the difference in the cultures of our two countries.
> 
> Apologies if I offended anyone.


Understood, I guess you post hit me the wrong way. Since to me it didn't have anything to do with what I was asking. As if we only shoot, "shock" and kill animals and do nothing in the way of protecting them. We do have an ASPCA here and do give money to animal organizations. 

When I was growing up we had over my first 25 years of my life I think probably was around 30 different animals we raised and some we "rescued". Which ranged from horses, ducks, geese, dogs, cats, birds, and few other assorted animals. One horse we rescue from an abusive family, which we had until he died at around 35 years old. Even buried him in my parents back yard. By the way we did use an electric fence to keep our horses inside our yard, which was only around the back part of yard where the horses where kept. So the ideal of having an e-fence was not foreign to me or even consider abusive to the animals. But never used it for our dogs as it wasn't really designed for dogs anyways.

So most people do care about animals in the US, like any other country. 

P.S. I have been to a few sporting goods stores, but not as big as the one you talked about. Of course I avoid Orlando anyways as much as possible. Unless we are doing our every 4-5 year visit to the Theme parks. Or only go when I have a reason to do so.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

hey second hand gal..How dare you call me barbaric ,for protecting the one i love so dear ,you have no right to judge any one here on earth unless of course you think your god. my loving ginger is happy and safe and can run and play with in our safe back yard ,and she does not get electric shocks when she is out there ,if you knew what you were talking about ,you would not have said the STUPID things you said ,she is keep in by a harmless buzzer, and , i really don't think you should be mouthing off about any thing that you your self haven't tried or at least seen in operation ,,ENOUGH SAID ,,,,LUMPY


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

I can't help but jump in here although I have tried to hold back. I don't blame Lumpy for being upset. From what I know of Kim and Lumpy they would be the last people to do anything cruel or 'barbaric' to their dogs. 
Also to use this thread to make a dig at US and to mention guns is extremely insensitive and the comment about dancing bears I think is really offensive.


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

As Jack spaniel has already said his post was not intended as derogatory to the US, he was just pointing out some of the huge differences between our countries and cultures. I think I unfortunately his words have been misunderstood.

The word barbaric was applied to the used of e collars to not personally towards Kim or Lumpy. If secondhand gal thinks that is how she would describe them then that is her choice.
We have no need to use e collars over here but I must say that if I were in Kim's situation I would consider it. There is no second chance where the life of your dog is concerned. So I think we just need to put this down to different opinions rather than start in a direction of personal name calling.

So please back to topic


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

As Wellerfeller says the word barbaric was my opinion and possibly too harsh a word which has caused offence for which I apologise. Do I know about e-collars - yes. Are there ANY circumstances in which I would use one - no, absolutely not.

They are illegal on animal welfare grounds in Wales - that is fact. They are also condemmed by respectable training organisations in the UK such as APDT or APBP - again fact.

Yes - I understand dogs are kept in place by the "harmless" buzzer. The buzzer warns that if the dogs goes any closer they will be zapped by an electric shock - this needs to be powerful enough to hurt the dog otherwise why would it work? The buzzer is therefore warning of pain - not something I wish for my dog in my garden any more than using outdated methods such as a rolled up newspaper to whack my dog.

To be honest I am saddened by the fact the majority of this forum seems to think zapping dogs is acceptable if you are unable to have a fence 

Sorry - edited to add one final thought. Would I rely on this for keeping my dog safe and secure - no! One of the links I already posted shows a dog who was often escaping the garden and I am pretty sure whilst previous dogs I have owned would have been pretty keen to avoid the shock a dog like my current Molly may obey it for a while but if she in mid chase of a squirrel or similar from the garden I suspect she would just chase and get shocked.


----------



## Von (Nov 1, 2012)

An interesting thread - I find a debate is so much harder on a forum because I don't see the people I am talking to, and so I can't see the body language and other cues that accompany what they say, just as they can't see mine. I'm sure I will have inadvertently offended folk on occasions despite my good intentions not to. I would like to add to the discussion, with no wish to offend, knowing my thoughts may be very different from those of others. 

I think e fences sound like a very good idea in certain situations, Lumpy's description of how they work is really informative, he makes it clear that the dog gets a warning buzz, and it certainly doesn't sound like they receive a high voltage shock. Dogs naturally learn about things in life to avoid through surprise or shock, whether it be eating something nasty, fireworks, owners being displeased, running too fast into a hard place (Jenna did this, and was a black dog with a black eye foe a week or two as a puppy) and so on. Some learn the hardest way of all, like dashing into the road and being hit by a car or worse. If an e fence shock stopped my dog from being hit by a car or a taxiing plane, but still gave some freedom and a gentler warning, I would certainly consider it.

We used something similar in our garden to deter our cats from entering the area where we fed the birds. The device gave out a high pitched sound beyond human hearing if they walked into the protected area. The four of them had totally different reactions - one leapt sky high, about turned and never entered the area again, another, our most persistent bird hunter, glared at the device, but walked through the first time, however soon learnt that this wasn't a one off, and after two or three times of trying to ignore it gave in and didn't enter the area again, the other 2 simply walked past the device, turned around and walked back out as though nothing had happened, but didn't enter the area again.

Things that dogs learn from don't have to be painful, eg a very low voltage shock can be effective, but not hurt, it is the surprise element which does the trick. When we were training our dogs to walk on a loose lead, we were shown a strategy which involved holding the lead in a certain way, if the dog pulled you about turned, and let out a length of lead as you walked away. There was no pulling on the dog's neck, no pain, no command, but the dog did not like the surprise vibration set off in the lead by the manoeuvre. It was magical, our dogs changed almost instantly from constantly trying to pull to walking on a loose lead alongside us.

Phew!! That was a long post, feel free to ignore it, or put it down to the ramblings of the aged!


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

"There was also a shooting range where you could shoot at 'pop up' animals, and kids as young as ten years old were banging away. Can you imagine such an establishment in the UK?.... absolute outrage."
Yes I can imagine such a thing, in fact I have seen them in every single fair ground I have ever been to. 
Von you are so right about debating on a forum and I agree with what you have said.


----------



## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I love listening to different points of view, as I am someone who likes to hear all sides of an argument before making decisions, also I find I occasionally unintentionally upset people as I have a habit of being devils advocate during debates. we don't have e-collars over here, but don't forget we have plenty of electric fences in the country protecting livestock and poultry from foxes etc and I'm sure quite a few dogs off lead have learnt what they do. Dudley has been on lead in our garden for about 2 months now as our chicken run is not strong enough to stop him getting in, I think we may have to get some kind of permanent livestock type fence put up, none of the chicken runs would work as we have a couple of small trees where our chooks are and we don't want to restrict them to a very small run. I had considered trying an electric fence, but then thought am I being too cruel, the american e-fence sounds quite good being able to set a warning buzzer - but yes, I would worry that Dudley's chase instinct would be too high and he would go through it anyway....keep looking for better fencing for now I guess.


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Don't forget the farming community in the UK use electric fences to keep their. Livestock safely penned in a secure area......and no buzzing collars to warn them either. If sheep, cows and horses can learn to steer clear, then our dogs should have no problem. They use electric fences in Africa on game farms too. Having killed a dog that ran into my car wheel ( note I did not run it over) because it got out onto the road, I know the upset it caused me and the owner. I have also had a dog in the past escape and spent hours searching for it. Found it running along a busy main road. I hate to think of the mayhem that might have caused. So do what you must to keep them safe, happy and secure. The onus is on us as owners to ensure this.


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Dawn you can but wire fencing that has a plastic coating on it. You put it up between posts and bury and tether it into the ground. You can buy as much or as little as you need. We have this round our entire plot with hedging planted either side. It works beautifully.

Kim...I cannot imagine living in an aviation community and having planes taxi-ing up and down outside your house. It must be really noisy. You have to love flying to live there! No my husband was not a pilot. He was police.


----------



## Jack Spaniel (Jul 6, 2012)

Just going back to the 'dancing bears' comment. I was not suggesting for one moment that dancing bears are OK in the USA. This was made because in the UK we have had a TV advert running that shows the cruelty being meted out to bears in some of the countries in the world and is used to encourage us in the UK to donate to the charity that seeks to protect them. We have similar ads on the TV showing suffering donkeys in Spain and again they are after our money.
I am also not suggesting that America is a nation of animal killers, just that in the UK it would be against the law to have a shop selling guns, crossbows and ammunition etc. (at least I believe that is the case).
I personally have no problem with the use of electric fences above or below ground to control animals and Jack my ex spaniel gave many a yelp out in the country when brushing against an electric fence and I don't recall him ever touching the same fence twice.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Cat 53 said:


> Dawn you can but wire fencing that has a plastic coating on it. You put it up between posts and bury and tether it into the ground. You can buy as much or as little as you need. We have this round our entire plot with hedging planted either side. It works beautifully.
> 
> Kim...I cannot imagine living in an aviation community and having planes taxi-ing up and down outside your house. It must be really noisy. You have to love flying to live there! No my husband was not a pilot. He was police.


Well we are not LAX or anything like that, plus we put double panned windows in the house. It's pretty cool though. The other day I herd an helicopter flying low and since we only have one person that has an helicopter here and he is not home I decided to see who was landing.. Turns out it was just someone flying by and decide to wave to a few of our neighborhoods sitting out side.. The only day that is get really busy is when we have our fly-in.. We do love it here.


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

I had Thanksgiving Dinner this year at a friend's house in a fly-in community in Florida. Very friendly people and neighbourly. I think half the neighbourhood were having dinner there too I saw half a dozen planes taking off for a social gathering elsewhere. Looked like a lot of fun. Really enjoyed seeing how some other people live.


----------



## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

Lumpy I am so sorry that you are upset. I don't think anyone on here would hurt anyone else intentionally. I think we are a bunch of very passionate poo lovers. Sometimes we may let that passion carry us away a bit. 
We all have our own opinions on what is right and wrong on everything. It is no different than people disagreeing on how to raise children. The important thing to remember here is that we ALL love our dogs very much. I have not come across one person on here who seems like they would ever do anything to hurt their dog. Every picture of every poo on here looks happy, spoiled and loved to pieces!!!!


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

I agree with Donna, Lumpy, and I think this thread has gone on long enough - longer than it should have really.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

2ndhandgal the article you mention, I did read. The problem was with the owner not changing his tactic. If my dog was getting out of the e-fence many times. After the second or three time then the e-fence is not working for the dog. You stop using it... That person did not do that. Insanity is repeating the same thing over again and expecting different results..

Jack Spaniel My understanding it's also illegal to have guns at all in the UK... So having a shop like that, of course would be strange. My husband and I have two handguns, but I think he got those at a gun show years ago. We also both have an concealed license permit which means we can carry them with us. Which is rare for us to do so. So yes a store like that normal in the US. As for animal welfare, we also have the same problems with people abusing animals. But have ASPCA and many other animal groups fighting hard to protect these animals, even exotics. 

As for using the e-fence, if we choose to go that route. Our dog will be properly trained. Like in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdoJGEIS2A. You don't just put the dog out there and say good luck... There is a process involved.

Do these fences work for all dogs, no. But it's up to the owner to decide on weather it works for his dog or not. It works for Lumpy's dog and many others. 

The last time I tried "talking" to my cat it didn't work...  So in the beginning when we where "training" her in the house on what she could scratch on we would hit her on the back side with a big loud NO. We did this a few times. Now all we need to do is say NO loud and she gets the point with out any hitting. The e-fence is no different, you are training the dogs on where they can go. 

For us the fence wouldn't even be around the whole house only the back yard. So he will have less distractions and I would never leave him out side when we were gone.


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

I agree it is great to see how other people live and to have our eyes opened to new experiences. I an now wondering how using roads as taxi areas for planes works on a day to day basis re rules of the roads. Is there some alarm that sounds if someone needs to do an emergency landing? Is it automatic right of way for planes? Fascinating.


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Fascinating thread its certainly opened my eyes to plane communities and e-fencing. Kim I explained it all to hubby and said you'd offered to take us up in your plane if we make it over to your neck of the woods. He was suitably impressed  thank you for the offer.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Yes there are rules of the road. All planes have right a way. The reason for the the larger then normal set back areas on our yards. Sometimes you can just drive in to someone drive way or unto their yard. So you can't really get made at someone for driving on your yard. LOL.

As for the emergency landing, of course anyone can land here for that. That's standard among aviation rules. If you have to you can even land at an Air Force base, which you would NEVER do under normal flying. We normally have a few people here that listen to our radio frequency. I don't only when hubby flying and I guess he listens when I'm flying.

Here a link http://loveslanding.com/.


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

MillieDog said:


> Fascinating thread its certainly opened my eyes to plane communities and e-fencing. Kim I explained it all to hubby and said you'd offered to take us up in your plane if we make it over to your neck of the woods. He was suitably impressed  thank you for the offer.


Our plane is not "legal" to fly right now, but that will be handle in the next couple of months if not sooner.. Need to get the annual done.  But should be up and running soon.


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Florida Cockapoo said:


> Our plane is not "legal" to fly right now, but that will be handle in the next couple of months if not sooner.. Need to get the annual done.  But should be up and running soon.


We're not rushing on coming over, debating between July and October. Think Oct may win as July may well be too hot for us poor fair skinned people


----------



## mairi1 (Mar 12, 2012)

MillieDog said:


> By the way, how did the other latex squeaky balls go with Molly?


Oh Julie they were ALL a roaring success ... I've been trying to upload a video of her first encounter with one of them but haven't managed .

I also gave my friends dogs them and they too loved them... I think Roxie the Jack Russell had hers removed for a couple of hours or so on Christmas Day because of the racket :laugh::laugh::laugh:... Spoil sports!!! 

Oh and Molly still doesn't really squeak it... How she manages to Carry it without squeaking it I do not know.... Even the Postman commented on the squeaky package!!!!   

xxx


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

MillieDog said:


> We're not rushing on coming over, debating between July and October. Think Oct may win as July may well be too hot for us poor fair skinned people


Yea our snow birds head back in April/May to beat the heat. October is nicer time of year for weather.


----------



## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

It sounds so interesting. We have nothing like that in the UK and learning to fly is horrendously expensive.....but then that applies to everything!


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Florida Cockapoo said:


> 2ndhandgal the article you mention, I did read. The problem was with the owner not changing his tactic. If my dog was getting out of the e-fence many times. After the second or three time then the e-fence is not working for the dog. You stop using it... That person did not do that. Insanity is repeating the same thing over again and expecting different results..
> 
> The last time I tried "talking" to my cat it didn't work...  So in the beginning when we where "training" her in the house on what she could scratch on we would hit her on the back side with a big loud NO. We did this a few times. Now all we need to do is say NO loud and she gets the point with out any hitting. The e-fence is no different, you are training the dogs on where they can go.


Agreed - the man was a total idiot - however it was also against the law to use the collar and he was condemmed by animal welfare organisations on that basis.

Oddly enough talking to Molly and Chance did not work either - somehow though I have managed to train them both without hitting or scaring either of them.


----------



## Jaclyn (Jul 21, 2012)

Phew! Intense thread! I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that we have one and we really, really like it! I grew up in South Africa and moved to the states as an adult and obviously no need to have one in SA so they were completely new to me when I moved here and I have to say I was a little shocked, haha excuse the pun, to find out about them. 

But after exploring options for us and researching we decided to get it. First of all, to everyone who thinks this is a painful, hard shock it's actually not. Well, you have the choice for it not to be. We have our collars set to the mildest setting which in actual fact feels like a shock you get when you're walking on carpet and touch a door handle. Dogs do not like this sensation anymore than we do, and just as you pull your hand back when you receive one, the dogs natural reaction is to do the same. You don't just throw them out into the yard and let them run over the invisible line and let them learn that way, you train them first without the correction turned off. The boundary line is flagged with little flags at their eye level, the first three days you take them out on a lead, with the collar on but no corrections, only a auditory warning, you take them up to the boundary, the collar beeps and you tug their leash and say back, back, back and teach them to retreat. Over and over and over. On the 4th day you allow the dog to receive a correction when they cross the line and again you use the leash to show them to retreat which they pretty much do on their own anyway. Sammy was corrected maybe 3 times and has never been corrected again as far as I know. I'm out there a lot with him and he will only go about 3 ft before the line and stop. He doesn't even get to the point of the auditory warning but if he did he'd hear the beep and retreat before his correction. He never ever cried or yelped when he was training and was corrected, he just jumped back and shook his head.

This allows our dogs to have full run of the yard, front and back. I have 5 kids who sometimes forget the door open, if we didn't have the invisible fence our dogs would have easy access to a main road and would end up hurt or worse. 

Oh and the RSPCA endorses the use of Invisible Fence. So I say go for it Kim. That way your dog won't be cooped up inside all day when you are unable to be outside, you can let him out with confidence knowing he is safe. Sammy loves to lie in the driveway and watch the going-ons of the neighborhood.

We still walk them every day and we just scoop Sammy up and cross the line with him in our arms and put him down, he thinks we are his "magic pass".

Lucy just got her collar so we haven't even put it on her yet because it's been too muddy to go out and flag the boundary line again. You use the flags for about 3 weeks.

Sammy is happy as can be outside, he's not quivering by the door, he is running around, playing fetch, racing and chasing Lucy, HAPPY. We are happy He is safe, he can't be hurt by a car, we can't lose him when the kids leave the door open. Happy


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Jaclyn said:


> Oh and the RSPCA endorses the use of Invisible Fence.


Really 

Shock Collars
The RSPCA worked closely with the Welsh Assembly Government on the legislation to ban electronic devices such as shock collars for cats and dogs and thus were delighted to see the first legislation of this kind passed in the UK in 2010 . The legislation also successfully withstood a Judicial Review, which was an important test of the Assembly’s powers under the Animal Welfare Act.

Source http://www.politicalanimal.org.uk/area/wales/companion


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

2ndhandgal said:


> Agreed - the man was a total idiot - however it was also against the law to use the collar and he was condemmed by animal welfare organisations on that basis.
> 
> Oddly enough talking to Molly and Chance did not work either - somehow though I have managed to train them both without hitting or scaring either of them.


It being against the law in your area, then I agree he should have known that from the start. Well you can't fixed stupid in some people (Forest Gump).

We will train our dog too with or with out the e-fence. Our cat is a well adjusted feline, that does not shy away from anyone even strangers. Plus she scratches where she suppose to. Well most of the time anyways...  

So I will take care in the safety and happiness of our animals.


----------



## Jaclyn (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm sorry, ASPCA. I live in the States.

Hope that my experience is useful to you Kim. You should just call them out for a consult. I spoke with Invisible Fence and Dogwatch and we went with Invisible Fence because of their newest technology called Boundary Plus. We have a pie shaped lot and only the boundary plus system could allow us to have the maximum use of our space.




2ndhandgal said:


> Really
> 
> Shock Collars
> The RSPCA worked closely with the Welsh Assembly Government on the legislation to ban electronic devices such as shock collars for cats and dogs and thus were delighted to see the first legislation of this kind passed in the UK in 2010 . The legislation also successfully withstood a Judicial Review, which was an important test of the Assembly’s powers under the Animal Welfare Act.
> ...


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Thanks Jaclyn. I will check those out. I did call a few local e-fence companies here. Don't remember if I check those two out. But will do that... If we do this I don't know if I will do the whole yard, as its .9 acres. Although its just a big square.


----------



## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

2ndhandgal said:


> Really
> 
> Shock Collars
> The RSPCA worked closely with the Welsh Assembly Government on the legislation to ban electronic devices such as shock collars for cats and dogs and thus were delighted to see the first legislation of this kind passed in the UK in 2010 . The legislation also successfully withstood a Judicial Review, which was an important test of the Assembly’s powers under the Animal Welfare Act.
> ...


I wonder if you're getting your wires crossed  Shock Collars are used in stopping bad behaviour or to correct unwanted behaviour. Therefore used as a form of punishment, many times over in the hope to stop an unwanted behaviour. Is there a warning sound ? I don't know.

e-fences are a stationary item to denote a boundary. Lumpy & Jaclyn have given a great description of how it is used and introduced.

I personally see these are two entirely different things.


----------



## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

MillieDog said:


> I wonder if you're getting your wires crossed  Shock Collars are used in stopping bad behaviour or to correct unwanted behaviour. Therefore used as a form of punishment, many times over in the hope to stop an unwanted behaviour. Is there a warning sound ? I don't know.
> 
> e-fences are a stationary item to denote a boundary. Lumpy & Jaclyn have given a great description of how it is used and introduced.
> 
> I personally see these are two entirely different things.


No crossed wires at all - the collar is exactly the same - just a different use for them.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

+first of all do any of you know what your talking about.first of all i would never use a shock collar,second ,did any of you know that and invisible fence can be adjusted, third my ginger never got a shock ,if you know what the hell your doing when you introduce a puppy to an invisible fence she will not get a shock at all. (do all you sick people on here really think i would shock my lovable wonderful ginger ) that i care about more then most people i know. i really thing you should go back to school ,,your comparing an invisible fence to an electric fence ,(used to keep stock in ) .my fence will shock you if you don't know what you are doing ,but if you know how to use it and how to set it up ,NO ANIMAL would ever get shocked. all you people from the UK have a completely different concept of what this is all about, and for some on here they seem very rude and ignorant. you think your the only one in the world with brains ,well i got new for you your lacking a few ,ok ..... still pissed off Lumpy


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Hallo Lumpy, sorry you are still upset. I think if you read the thread again you will see not all people from UK are the same, in fact many of us have spoken up for you.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

can any of you normal people out there see me shocking this wonderful loveing puppy called Ginger,
if you can then your the sick puppy


----------



## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh Lumpy, please stop - we are all really upset that you are so hurt by this thread. We know that you would never hurt your little one, and we are also very upset that you feel people are against you. It is not fair of you to say that we are sick people on here, though, so hey, fella, give us a break here. I think if you look back through the thread you will see that!
Come on, we love your posts, and they are full of love for your cockapoo, so can we get back on to a more friendly footing, which is what we all expect on this forum, with very few exceptions???


----------



## Florida Cockapoo (Aug 24, 2012)

Did any of the people that are against the fence watch the training video on how to train your dog for the fence? Yes it is a promo pieces for one of the companies, but shows how to train the dog properly with out hurting the dog.

The dogs that use it in our neighborhood are not afraid of their owners. Or afraid of going out side in their yard for that matter. Some of these dogs even have the collars off after a while and stay in the yard. Plus most of these dogs are "rescues". So these dogs are not being repeatably shock. If that was the case I wouldn't be considering on using it.


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

tressa,ok. i give up Sweey i will try to be a good little boy ,but as you know i love my ginger more then any thing in the world ,and to think people would really think i would shock her and hurt her is beyond my thinking, even now ginger is trained to stay in the yard .i can leave her out with out the Collier even being on and she stays in the yard.,,and yes i did use some bad choice of words in my post only because i was so mad at people thinking i would be that cruel as to hurt ginger OR ANY ANIMAL..i would sooner hurt my self then to hurt a defenceless puppy or kitty..and for this i'm sorry .i have a way with words that some times get heated when i get angry'


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

and you know Tressa. I have a 1/2 acre of land in back of my house,and every day me and ginger goes out there and we run her but off ,she get planty of exercise,plus she gets a great work out just chasing the rabbets and squirrels.,so unlike others that have there pets on a lead all the time ginger is free to run where she wants .the only time she is on a lead is when we take a car ride to the pet store so she can pick out a new toy.i don't have a doggy door on my home cause i had one before and all the rabbets and squirrels thought this was there home and would come in,,Haaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaa.so i had to do away with that. so she just talks to me when she wants to go out and we go .easy ...lumpy


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi Lumpy, I did pm you yesterday but unfortunately I have now also had to take another post off. I understand That you are angry but your generalisations are not pleasant. Only one person had a difference in opinion and they apologised for the strength of word that they used and for the misunderstanding that their words were aimed personally at you, which they weren't.
Please calm down and get back to enjoying the forum. EVERYONE knows how much you love Ginger!


----------



## sugerlump (Oct 6, 2012)

hi sorry about that but did you not read my last post.
i said i would be a good boy and i said i was sorry, but people do have to know what they are talking about before they say it ,now i'm sorry i wrote so much bad stuff, but you have to understand i was mad, but will stay away for a few day ,and see how it works out ok bye bye ,,,Lumpy
PS i did not see you reprimanding her for starting it ..bye bye


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I am sorry you seem to have taken everything so personally.


----------



## tessybear (May 1, 2011)

Actually two people Karen, lets get the record straight before this thread is put to sleep and both have apologized.
Lumpy I look forward to you returning after your short breather.


----------



## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

For goodness sake. Ridiculous. Closing now.


----------

