# Aggression



## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

*hello I wonder if anyone can help, we have a beautiful red Cockapoo 9 weeks called Bonnie, she was the only one in the litter and We knew that she might be more difficult to train as our vet said it’s kind of like spoilt child syndrome. Apparently you just have to be more strict with her. The first 2 days of having her she was so loving !! really picking things up fast! We didn’t have to crate train her at all as she already wanted to go in there, she sleeps at night perfectly with the odd little bark, we are doing treat retreat with her for training as she’s really started showing quite a lot aggression. it’s really shocked us, my girlfriend is quite wary of her now, she’s drew blood to us both out of frustration, she was being carried to go have her bum washed, she got really angry because she wanted to chew the puppy pad, all her hair on her back went up, she went stiff, baring her teeth and attacked her hands she growls barks. My girlfriend feels silly because she’s never ever experienced this with her family pets and feels stupid to be wary of her. She’s a puppy after all, But she does not stop attacking until you have put her down on the floor to go and get what she can’t have She wriggles and you can’t physically keep holding her. Obviously we try not to pick her up to much and let her come on her own terms most the time. because she hasn’t had her second lots of jabs she is being picked up a little bit and to get her bum washed. It was like something changed in her. She guards spots in our home also, scratching at the carpet and pulling the thread out of them, if we tell her leave. she stops only because she thinks we are going to give her a treat everytime. It’s strange because treat retreat does seem to work to some extent. but she’s extremely clever and it’s almost like she thinks well if keep going to chew something I get a treat, she went to the same area at least 6 times we say leave it.... wait until she drops it or leaves it she comes over sits praise her with treat or toy then goes back to the same spot again ? Is this how we are ment to do it ? Is she just testing us ? Her teeth are obviously very sharp because of her age but if she did that to a child it would not be acceptable. Also when we play with her it turns nasty very quick, She doesn’t seem to wag her tail so I don’t think it’s rough play? we use toys only and try our best for her to not get angry it’s like frustration she wants to hang on to your clothes and chew and then if you try and get another toy to distract her she doesn’t really care. We use stand up walk away ignore when she is being a bit of a rascal she hardly seems to care. We love her so much and will try our absolute best to get her out of it, but just wondering if this is normal I’ve read quite a few things saying that puppies who show aggression this young is not good. We are worried and it’s draining us when we are doing all the right techniques that we think, but the aggression is a very bad thing, we have a lot of children in the family and in the future we don’t want to have to keep them separate if she gets this nasty so quick. She can be loving it’s not all bad she loves her tummy being rubbed and kisses. But it just seems like she gets so aggressive when she can’t have what she wants. I’ve read about cocker rage and that is worrying. Can anyone please point us in the right direction and tell us if we are doing anything wrong. We just love her so much already and she’s our baby but she really does hurt. Thank you kindness will he appreciated as we are first time puppy owners and we just want some support. *


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I would get a decent reward based trainer involved now as sounds like you could do with the support and whilst many are not working in person, online can actually work very well. I would suggest either APDT or IMDT trainers.

The frustration biting sounds like just that, she is getting very fed up of you picking her up and bum washing sounds like something many pups are going to object to if carried out too often - is she poorly that she is getting in such a mess? Can you trim the hair and just wipe her to clean as it sounds to me like it is causing a lot of the issue. Pick me up often and do something I really dislike and I will start to object more and more to the act of picking up - aggression or defending herself from something she really dislikes - its a fine line. She is only 9 weeks old - I think she needs understanding not treating as aggressive right now.

With regard to the carpet chewing - I am not quite sure what you mean by treat retreat training but you need to distract her with a toy or something she can play with and chew, using treats as you are is actually rewarding her for the chewing on the carpet and yes she will carry on as that is what she is earning rewards for. She has no understanding of the words leave it - but she chews the carpet, you say things and reward her.


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

Luke123 said:


> *hello I wonder if anyone can help, we have a beautiful red Cockapoo 9 weeks called Bonnie, she was the only one in the litter and We knew that she might be more difficult to train as our vet said it’s kind of like spoilt child syndrome. Apparently you just have to be more strict with her. The first 2 days of having her she was so loving !! really picking things up fast! We didn’t have to crate train her at all as she already wanted to go in there, she sleeps at night perfectly with the odd little bark, we are doing treat retreat with her for training as she’s really started showing quite a lot aggression. it’s really shocked us, my girlfriend is quite wary of her now, she’s drew blood to us both out of frustration, she was being carried to go have her bum washed, she got really angry because she wanted to chew the puppy pad, all her hair on her back went up, she went stiff, baring her teeth and attacked her hands she growls barks. My girlfriend feels silly because she’s never ever experienced this with her family pets and feels stupid to be wary of her. She’s a puppy after all, But she does not stop attacking until you have put her down on the floor to go and get what she can’t have She wriggles and you can’t physically keep holding her. Obviously we try not to pick her up to much and let her come on her own terms most the time. because she hasn’t had her second lots of jabs she is being picked up a little bit and to get her bum washed. It was like something changed in her. She guards spots in our home also, scratching at the carpet and pulling the thread out of them, if we tell her leave. she stops only because she thinks we are going to give her a treat everytime. It’s strange because treat retreat does seem to work to some extent. but she’s extremely clever and it’s almost like she thinks well if keep going to chew something I get a treat, she went to the same area at least 6 times we say leave it.... wait until she drops it or leaves it she comes over sits praise her with treat or toy then goes back to the same spot again ? Is this how we are ment to do it ? Is she just testing us ? Her teeth are obviously very sharp because of her age but if she did that to a child it would not be acceptable. Also when we play with her it turns nasty very quick, She doesn’t seem to wag her tail so I don’t think it’s rough play? we use toys only and try our best for her to not get angry it’s like frustration she wants to hang on to your clothes and chew and then if you try and get another toy to distract her she doesn’t really care. We use stand up walk away ignore when she is being a bit of a rascal she hardly seems to care. We love her so much and will try our absolute best to get her out of it, but just wondering if this is normal I’ve read quite a few things saying that puppies who show aggression this young is not good. We are worried and it’s draining us when we are doing all the right techniques that we think, but the aggression is a very bad thing, we have a lot of children in the family and in the future we don’t want to have to keep them separate if she gets this nasty so quick. She can be loving it’s not all bad she loves her tummy being rubbed and kisses. But it just seems like she gets so aggressive when she can’t have what she wants. I’ve read about cocker rage and that is worrying. Can anyone please point us in the right direction and tell us if we are doing anything wrong. We just love her so much already and she’s our baby but she really does hurt. Thank you kindness will he appreciated as we are first time puppy owners and we just want some support. *





Luke123 said:


> *hello I wonder if anyone can help, we have a beautiful red Cockapoo 9 weeks called Bonnie, she was the only one in the litter and We knew that she might be more difficult to train as our vet said it’s kind of like spoilt child syndrome. Apparently you just have to be more strict with her. The first 2 days of having her she was so loving !! really picking things up fast! We didn’t have to crate train her at all as she already wanted to go in there, she sleeps at night perfectly with the odd little bark, we are doing treat retreat with her for training as she’s really started showing quite a lot aggression. it’s really shocked us, my girlfriend is quite wary of her now, she’s drew blood to us both out of frustration, she was being carried to go have her bum washed, she got really angry because she wanted to chew the puppy pad, all her hair on her back went up, she went stiff, baring her teeth and attacked her hands she growls barks. My girlfriend feels silly because she’s never ever experienced this with her family pets and feels stupid to be wary of her. She’s a puppy after all, But she does not stop attacking until you have put her down on the floor to go and get what she can’t have She wriggles and you can’t physically keep holding her. Obviously we try not to pick her up to much and let her come on her own terms most the time. because she hasn’t had her second lots of jabs she is being picked up a little bit and to get her bum washed. It was like something changed in her. She guards spots in our home also, scratching at the carpet and pulling the thread out of them, if we tell her leave. she stops only because she thinks we are going to give her a treat everytime. It’s strange because treat retreat does seem to work to some extent. but she’s extremely clever and it’s almost like she thinks well if keep going to chew something I get a treat, she went to the same area at least 6 times we say leave it.... wait until she drops it or leaves it she comes over sits praise her with treat or toy then goes back to the same spot again ? Is this how we are ment to do it ? Is she just testing us ? Her teeth are obviously very sharp because of her age but if she did that to a child it would not be acceptable. Also when we play with her it turns nasty very quick, She doesn’t seem to wag her tail so I don’t think it’s rough play? we use toys only and try our best for her to not get angry it’s like frustration she wants to hang on to your clothes and chew and then if you try and get another toy to distract her she doesn’t really care. We use stand up walk away ignore when she is being a bit of a rascal she hardly seems to care. We love her so much and will try our absolute best to get her out of it, but just wondering if this is normal I’ve read quite a few things saying that puppies who show aggression this young is not good. We are worried and it’s draining us when we are doing all the right techniques that we think, but the aggression is a very bad thing, we have a lot of children in the family and in the future we don’t want to have to keep them separate if she gets this nasty so quick. She can be loving it’s not all bad she loves her tummy being rubbed and kisses. But it just seems like she gets so aggressive when she can’t have what she wants. I’ve read about cocker rage and that is worrying. Can anyone please point us in the right direction and tell us if we are doing anything wrong. We just love her so much already and she’s our baby but she really does hurt. Thank you kindness will he appreciated as we are first time puppy owners and we just want some support. *





2ndhandgal said:


> I would get a decent reward based trainer involved now as sounds like you could do with the support and whilst many are not working in person, online can actually work very well. I would suggest either APDT or IMDT trainers.
> 
> The frustration biting sounds like just that, she is getting very fed up of you picking her up and bum washing sounds like something many pups are going to object to if carried out too often - is she poorly that she is getting in such a mess? Can you trim the hair and just wipe her to clean as it sounds to me like it is causing a lot of the issue. Pick me up often and do something I really dislike and I will start to object more and more to the act of picking up - aggression or defending herself from something she really dislikes - its a fine line. She is only 9 weeks old - I think she needs understanding not treating as aggressive right now.
> 
> With regard to the carpet chewing - I am not quite sure what you mean by treat retreat training but you need to distract her with a toy or something she can play with and chew, using treats as you are is actually rewarding her for the chewing on the carpet and yes she will carry on as that is what she is earning rewards for. She has no understanding of the words leave it - but she chews the carpet, you say things and reward her.


thank you for your reply, treat retreat is a way of getting them to loose an item or something they aren’t meant to be doing in exchange for something of higher value of that she loves. over what she is not supposed to be doing. This was a technique online we read upon it said that you need to use a key word Which was (leave it ) to know that’s when she will get something better in return. She does seem to understand leave it already, she looses it majority of the time comes over sits and waits for her reward. We only give the reward toy/treat if she drops it first time. This is only something we are doing because we don’t want to be picking her up and physically removing her from the situation because then she will think it’s a game apparently ? Her poo is fine but can get stuck in hair sometimes and she absolutely hates you going near her bum unless it’s in shallow bath soaked which I read on a forum is what you should do to soak it off properly. Thank you for the training advise we will definitely look into that !! Really appreciate your reply.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

OK - I understand a little better what you are trying with the treat retreat, I will teach a dog similar, but I make sure I am in control of the situation so they can not then return to what they were trying to get before so maybe you need to be either removing or covering the item or pairing it with then distracting and playing with the pup as otherwise they will continue to do it more as they are earning rewards from it.

If she hates her bum being touched that much I think she will also be hating the bum washing so I would be working on just gentle handling and rewarding her for letting you touch her all over, always allowing her the choice to move away and working at her confidence level.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Have a look at Kikopup for training - her positive interrupter is great


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

2ndhandgal said:


> OK - I understand a little better what you are trying with the treat retreat, I will teach a dog similar, but I make sure I am in control of the situation so they can not then return to what they were trying to get before so maybe you need to be either removing or covering the item or pairing it with then distracting and playing with the pup as otherwise they will continue to do it more as they are earning rewards from it.
> 
> If she hates her bum being touched that much I think she will also be hating the bum washing so I would be working on just gentle handling and rewarding her for letting you touch her all over, always allowing her the choice to move away and working at her confidence level.
> [/QUOTEd





2ndhandgal said:


> OK - I understand a little better what you are trying with the treat retreat, I will teach a dog similar, but I make sure I am in control of the situation so they can not then return to what they were trying to get before so maybe you need to be either removing or covering the item or pairing it with then distracting and playing with the pup as otherwise they will continue to do it more as they are earning rewards from it.
> 
> If she hates her bum being touched that much I think she will also be hating the bum washing so I would be working on just gentle handling and rewarding her for letting you touch her all over, always allowing her the choice to move away and working at her confidence level.


thank you sorry I didn’t explain it that well the first time. Our home is completely puppy proof now but it’s more puppy pads she keeps scratching and chewing. And areas in the house like the carpet, she has got a spot in our living room that she goes to and bites the carpet Scratches it, no matter how many times we try and distract her she just goes back to it and starts biting it. if we approach her to stroke her she bares her teeth her hair come up on her back & the growls and snarling starts like she’s guarding that area then she would bite hard. We try stroking her but don’t like stressing her out either ? we have quite a thick pile carpet so I don’t know if she just finds comfort in it. She doesn’t guard her food or toys, just areas to the home and a blanket we bought her back with after getting her, she started guarding that we couldn’t touch her whilst she had it after 2 days of having her like she just became possessive over it. we are working at touching whilst she has it and she has improved with the blanket now. With regards to her bum in a shallow bath it’s more comfortable for her to soak it. When we tried to wipe her bum after a poop if a tiny bit was slightly stuck she would hate the fact we are making her do something she doesn’t want to while have run of the living room. It’s almost like when she has got free run of the living room and we are trying to wipe her bum to make sure nothing is stuck she’s getting angry because she just wants to play and do her own thing. but when we take her up to have a soak she just cuddles up to us and let’s us do what we have to do, we are extremely gentle with her at all times. Once she has had her second jabs we will look at a suitable groomer for her. her fur around her bum is so long so if a tiny bit gets stuck we need to get it off ASAP as we found that leaving it made it worse for the next time she went potty. I’m a lot more calm now that you personally don’t think we should worry to much right now about her biting and snarling. I just feel like the first 2 days we had her she was so so good and now she’s really biting us. I wouldn’t be able to leave a child with her now at all as she does make us bleed a lot. It was just really concerning for us as we need to show her we are in control. We love her so much and Just hope she grows out of it we pray. Because she hasn’t had her jabs yet we wanted to attempt to take her out in a puppy bag carrier because apparently it’s important for them to get fresh air before jabs. we bought a carrier that goes around us from Petsathome and she turns really possessive with the material she chews it sucks on it and snarls when we touch her, which is going to be very hard to take her out in it when she gets so protective over the bag so we haven’t been able to do that now. We are first time puppy parents and it is so difficult so really do thank you for your advise. Any suggestions for the carpet situation would be appreciated ?Thank you


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## Andy137 (Feb 16, 2021)

My own experience with mine being 5 months is you need a mix of management and behavioural work. Mine has been restricted to what areas of the house he has access to and we have put things down to cover wires that go between rooms. As he's got older and he's got better he's now allowed in more rooms and we're slowly getting back to a normal life. The first 3 months I spent pretty much retricted to the kitchen and utility.

I'd suggest pick some things you want to work on and for the rest use management to restrict access/prevent problem behaviours. Then once you've achieved something move onto the next. These could be handling, or behaviours you want to work on.

Use the majority of her food for training for example her breakfast as you pet and handle at her pace. Keep some of her food back and have a look at "it's your choice" and reward her when she offers you good behaviours of her own choice.

I'd also echo 2ndhandgal and say with the guarding I'd probably get a professional to help.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I would ditch puppy pads and just teach her to go outside for toilet from the start - puppy pads just prolong the situation.

If she is guarding things at nine weeks you really do need someone to work with you now. Videos would be helpful to see if she is really guarding or just being a normal grumpy pup. If you have to take things off her always give her something else, but avoid taking things as much as possible and work within her comfort levels as much as you can. As Andy says you need a mix of behavioural and management to prevent issues. If the carpet is a problem can you cover that area or block access to it somehow?

A few things you say about needing to show her you are in control do worry me a little that your reactions may be fuelling things. Pups generally want to work with us and don't need us to show we are in control, they just need guidance. I also see lots of pups and most 9 week old pups are all about the teeth and mouthing and can and do draw blood - use toys to distract all the time, biting humans gets nothing, biting toys gets good play


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

Luke123 said:


> thank you sorry I didn’t explain it that well the first time. Our home is completely puppy proof now but it’s more puppy pads she keeps scratching and chewing. And areas in the house like the carpet, she has got a spot in our living room that she goes to and bites the carpet Scratches it, no matter how many times we try and distract her she just goes back to it and starts biting it. if we approach her to stroke her she bares her teeth her hair come up on her back & the growls and snarling starts like she’s guarding that area then she would bite hard. We try stroking her but don’t like stressing her out either ? we have quite a thick pile carpet so I don’t know if she just finds comfort in it. She doesn’t guard her food or toys, just areas to the home and a blanket we bought her back with after getting her, she started guarding that we couldn’t touch her whilst she had it after 2 days of having her like she just became possessive over it. we are working at touching whilst she has it and she has improved with the blanket now. With regards to her bum in a shallow bath it’s more comfortable for her to soak it. When we tried to wipe her bum after a poop if a tiny bit was slightly stuck she would hate the fact we are making her do something she doesn’t want to while have run of the living room. It’s almost like when she has got free run of the living room and we are trying to wipe her bum to make sure nothing is stuck she’s getting angry because she just wants to play and do her own thing. but when we take her up to have a soak she just cuddles up to us and let’s us do what we have to do, we are extremely gentle with her at all times. Once she has had her second jabs we will look at a suitable groomer for her. her fur around her bum is so long so if a tiny bit gets stuck we need to get it off ASAP as we found that leaving it made it worse for the next time she went potty. I’m a lot more calm now that you personally don’t think we should worry to much right now about her biting and snarling. I just feel like the first 2 days we had her she was so so good and now she’s really biting us. I wouldn’t be able to leave a child with her now at all as she does make us bleed a lot. It was just really concerning for us as we need to show her we are in control. We love her so much and Just hope she grows out of it we pray. Because she hasn’t had her jabs yet we wanted to attempt to take her out in a puppy bag carrier because apparently it’s important for them to get fresh air before jabs. we bought a carrier that goes around us from Petsathome and she turns really possessive with the material she chews it sucks on it and snarls when we touch her, which is going to be very hard to take her out in it when she gets so protective over the bag so we haven’t been able to do that now. We are first time puppy parents and it is so difficult so really do thank you for your advise. Any suggestions for the carpet situation would be appreciated ?Thank you





Luke123 said:


> *hello I wonder if anyone can help, we have a beautiful red Cockapoo 9 weeks called Bonnie, she was the only one in the litter and We knew that she might be more difficult to train as our vet said it’s kind of like spoilt child syndrome. Apparently you just have to be more strict with her. The first 2 days of having her she was so loving !! really picking things up fast! We didn’t have to crate train her at all as she already wanted to go in there, she sleeps at night perfectly with the odd little bark, we are doing treat retreat with her for training as she’s really started showing quite a lot aggression. it’s really shocked us, my girlfriend is quite wary of her now, she’s drew blood to us both out of frustration, she was being carried to go have her bum washed, she got really angry because she wanted to chew the puppy pad, all her hair on her back went up, she went stiff, baring her teeth and attacked her hands she growls barks. My girlfriend feels silly because she’s never ever experienced this with her family pets and feels stupid to be wary of her. She’s a puppy after all, But she does not stop attacking until you have put her down on the floor to go and get what she can’t have She wriggles and you can’t physically keep holding her. Obviously we try not to pick her up to much and let her come on her own terms most the time. because she hasn’t had her second lots of jabs she is being picked up a little bit and to get her bum washed. It was like something changed in her. She guards spots in our home also, scratching at the carpet and pulling the thread out of them, if we tell her leave. she stops only because she thinks we are going to give her a treat everytime. It’s strange because treat retreat does seem to work to some extent. but she’s extremely clever and it’s almost like she thinks well if keep going to chew something I get a treat, she went to the same area at least 6 times we say leave it.... wait until she drops it or leaves it she comes over sits praise her with treat or toy then goes back to the same spot again ? Is this how we are ment to do it ? Is she just testing us ? Her teeth are obviously very sharp because of her age but if she did that to a child it would not be acceptable. Also when we play with her it turns nasty very quick, She doesn’t seem to wag her tail so I don’t think it’s rough play? we use toys only and try our best for her to not get angry it’s like frustration she wants to hang on to your clothes and chew and then if you try and get another toy to distract her she doesn’t really care. We use stand up walk away ignore when she is being a bit of a rascal she hardly seems to care. We love her so much and will try our absolute best to get her out of it, but just wondering if this is normal I’ve read quite a few things saying that puppies who show aggression this young is not good. We are worried and it’s draining us when we are doing all the right techniques that we think, but the aggression is a very bad thing, we have a lot of children in the family and in the future we don’t want to have to keep them separate if she gets this nasty so quick. She can be loving it’s not all bad she loves her tummy being rubbed and kisses. But it just seems like she gets so aggressive when she can’t have what she wants. I’ve read about cocker rage and that is worrying. Can anyone please point us in the right direction and tell us if we are doing anything wrong. We just love her so much already and she’s our baby but she really does hurt. Thank you kindness will he appreciated as we are first time puppy owners and we just want some support. *





2ndhandgal said:


> I would ditch puppy pads and just teach her to go outside for toilet from the start - puppy pads just prolong the situation.
> 
> If she is guarding things at nine weeks you really do need someone to work with you now. Videos would be helpful to see if she is really guarding or just being a normal grumpy pup. If you have to take things off her always give her something else, but avoid taking things as much as possible and work within her comfort levels as much as you can. As Andy says you need a mix of behavioural and management to prevent issues. If the carpet is a problem can you cover that area or block access to it somehow?
> 
> A few things you say about needing to show her you are in control do worry me a little that your reactions may be fuelling things. Pups generally want to work with us and don't need us to show we are in control, they just need guidance. I also see lots of pups and most 9 week old pups are all about the teeth and mouthing and can and do draw blood - use toys to distract all the time, biting humans gets nothing, biting toys gets good play


we were advised by our vet not to allow her in the garden until she has had her second jabs, as our neighbour has a lot of cats and they all like to come and wee on our patio. So I use puppy pads just for her safety. Is this not correct? We can’t cover up the spot that she likes unfortunately as it’s right by the kitchen door. Thank you for all your advise I have recently spoke to a vet who has confirmed that the way she is acting isn’t really right. She doesn’t just bite once she carries on attacking your hand. As mentioned We could not have a child in the home at all as she could really hurt them. She does this attack thing if we take something away from her. As I mentioned being in control I don’t personally feel like I’m making anything worse. We have done all the right training techniques that we know of, Nothing forceful everything on her own terms. limitations to the amount of times We are picking her up, but at some point she is only 9 weeks old we will need to pick her up sometimes she just attacks unprovoked. I can deal with rough play. but when she does not loose your hand at all for a good 10 seconds then your finger is pouring I didn’t think that was normal behaviour. My partner stroked her this morning because she wanted to chew the sofa again. so softly stroked and showed her toy and she went again.


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

Luke123 said:


> we were advised by our vet not to allow her in the garden until she has had her second jabs, as our neighbour has a lot of cats and they all like to come and wee on our patio. So I use puppy pads just for her safety. Is this not correct? We can’t cover up the spot that she likes unfortunately as it’s right by the kitchen door. Thank you for all your advise I have recently spoke to a vet who has confirmed that the way she is acting isn’t really right. She doesn’t just bite once she carries on attacking your hand. As mentioned We could not have a child in the home at all as she could really hurt them. She does this attack thing if we take something away from her. As I mentioned being in control I don’t personally feel like I’m making anything worse. We have done all the right training techniques that we know of, Nothing forceful everything on her own terms. limitations to the amount of times We are picking her up, but at some point she is only 9 weeks old we will need to pick her up sometimes she just attacks unprovoked. I can deal with rough play. but when she does not loose your hand at all for a good 10 seconds then your finger is pouring I didn’t think that was normal behaviour. My partner stroked her this morning because she wanted to chew the sofa again. so softly stroked and showed her toy and she went again.


We have recently got a behaviourist involved now and they are going to work close with us and Bonnie, they have mentioned about her being the only pup in the litter (uno) pup she hadn’t learnt fully. Thank you everyone for your help x


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Glad to hear you have a trainer on board, some vets are not particularly knowledgeable about training advice and I would also speak to the trainer/behaviourist about not going into the garden as that is also pretty odd advice if you have a safe outside space which can not be accessed by non-vaccinated dogs. Pups which have been well raised will be out and about in breeders garden before they come to you


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

2ndhandgal said:


> Glad to hear you have a trainer on board, some vets are not particularly knowledgeable about training advice and I would also speak to the trainer/behaviourist about not going into the garden as that is also pretty odd advice if you have a safe outside space which can not be accessed by non-vaccinated dogs. Pups which have been well raised will be out and about in breeders garden before they come to you


I don’t understand what is right or wrong now then? Because I’m hearing so many different things. My neighbour has a lot of cats which come into our garden a lot. We live by a field and get a lot of foxes as well. So I was told don’t let her go near anywhere an unvaccinated animal has been. So I called the vets explaining my worries and I was just told to be safe don’t risk it and if I’m comfortable with puppy pads stick with it. I don’t know what to do now I’m lost because not one person has the same answer. I would never forgive my self if I did something that was risky. Over a few accidents in the house. I will definitely ask the trainer it’s just all so confusing because people have so many different ways of doing things?


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## Louiseshaw24 (Feb 16, 2021)

Luke123 said:


> I don’t understand what is right or wrong now then? Because I’m hearing so many different things. My neighbour has a lot of cats which come into our garden a lot. We live by a field and get a lot of foxes as well. So I was told don’t let her go near anywhere an unvaccinated animal has been. So I called the vets explaining my worries and I was just told to be safe don’t risk it and if I’m comfortable with puppy pads stick with it. I don’t know what to do now I’m lost because not one person has the same answer. I would never forgive my self if I did something that was risky. Over a few accidents in the house. I will definitely ask the trainer it’s just all so confusing because people have so many different ways of doing things?


I think this is correct . Surely a vet knows what they are talking about and I have been given similar advice about my own dogs . Don’t listen to key board warriors who think they know everything when they don’t . YOU do what the professionals are telling you . Good luck !


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## Jo :) (Apr 10, 2020)

I see you have only joined a few hours ago Louise. If you look back, you will see that 2ndhandgal is a highly experienced, longstanding and well respected member of this forum. Certainly not a keyboard warrior!!


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## Louiseshaw24 (Feb 16, 2021)

Jo :) said:


> I see you have only joined a few hours ago Louise. If you look back, you will see that 2ndhandgal is a highly experienced, longstanding and well respected member of this forum. Certainly not a keyboard warrior!!


Thank you so much for the advice but I did actually look at the whole conversation. In my opinion I felt like she was being a little condescending to luke123 especially when he explained about their discussions with vets etc . Experienced and well respected member of this forum or not luke123 should listen to vets who are actually experienced in situations like this and have spent years in the field


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## Jo :) (Apr 10, 2020)

That is your opinion and indeed you are entitle to it! I didn't mean read the whole thread, but more consider 2ndhand's 10 years and 4000+ posts on this forum. Nonetheless a 'little condescending' does not earn the unpleasant moniker of 'keyboard warrior'


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## Louiseshaw24 (Feb 16, 2021)

Jo :) said:


> That is your opinion and indeed you are entitle to it! I didn't mean read the whole thread, but more consider 2ndhand's 10 years and 4000+ posts on this forum. Nonetheless a 'little condescending' does not earn the unpleasant moniker of 'keyboard warrior'


I read the full thread prior to your response actually . It doesn’t matter if a person has 10 years experience and 4000...yawn...posts I think anyone should take up the advice with what a professional is saying . It is a forum and I have given my opinion like everyone else . You have a great day now


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## Luke123 (Feb 15, 2021)

Luke123 said:


> I don’t understand what is right or wrong now then? Because I’m hearing so many different things. My neighbour has a lot of cats which come into our garden a lot. We live by a field and get a lot of foxes as well. So I was told don’t let her go near anywhere an unvaccinated animal has been. So I called the vets explaining my worries and I was just told to be safe don’t risk it and if I’m comfortable with puppy pads stick with it. I don’t know what to do now I’m lost because not one person has the same answer. I would never forgive my self if I did something that was risky. Over a few accidents in the house. I will definitely ask the trainer it’s just all so confusing because people have so many different ways of doing things?





Jo :) said:


> That is your opinion and indeed you are entitle to it! I didn't mean read the whole thread, but more consider 2ndhand's 10 years and 4000+ posts on this forum. Nonetheless a 'little condescending' does not earn the unpleasant moniker of 'keyboard warrior'


maybe you could give me some advise then also ? We were told by a vet to wait until she had her 2nd jabs if we knew of unvaccinated animals coming into the garden. I explained that. But now I’m being told the vets aren’t knowledgeable? I only called the vets explaining my worries because I thought they would know more about that than a trainer. The trainer we have gone for also works close with our vet. I’m just finding the whole thing a little bit confusing. ?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I will bow out now - my final thoughts are that vets train for years on medical issues and are most definitely the experts in that field and who should be consulted and respected.

Trainers and behaviourists train for years on behavioural and training issues and are the experts in that field who should be consulted and respected.

I have no wish to disrespect either and had no intention insulting the original poster - many apologies if that came over wrongly. The danger in not taking a pup out is less from accidents in the house (although it will make house training much harder) but from a socialising and getting used to the world point of view. My pup was out and about - safely in my arms - from the first day I got her to get used to watching traffic, people, birds, planes and all the million and one things we expect our dogs to cope with. She was also out and about in my garden as it is a space safe from other dogs although certainly used by all sorts of other animals


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## Dig (Dec 27, 2018)

2ndhandgal said:


> I will bow out now - my final thoughts are that vets train for years on medical issues and are most definitely the experts in that field and who should be consulted and respected.
> 
> Trainers and behaviourists train for years on behavioural and training issues and are the experts in that field who should be consulted and respected.
> 
> I have no wish to disrespect either and had no intention insulting the original poster - many apologies if that came over wrongly. The danger in not taking a pup out is less from accidents in the house (although it will make house training much harder) but from a socialising and getting used to the world point of view. My pup was out and about - safely in my arms - from the first day I got her to get used to watching traffic, people, birds, planes and all the million and one things we expect our dogs to cope with. She was also out and about in my garden as it is a space safe from other dogs although certainly used by all sorts of other animals


I absolutely agree with 2ndhandgals thoughts on the difference between vets and trainers/behaviourists - both experts in their own right, but definitely two different expert fields.
What makes this forum so great is the respect that posters have for each other, enabling people to ask for support from others who may have experienced similar. The culture has always been very accepting of anyone posting a request for advice and anyone who takes the time and effort to respond. In my opinion what 2ndhandgal gal has done here is try to ask for further information to clarify the concerns and offer advice based on the information provided and her own considerable experience. (Thank you for all the times you’ve done this- ive always found your advice extremely helpful) Surely that’s what the forum is all about.
Calling people names with the intent to offend isn’t ok.


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