# Sickening trade !!!!!!!!!!



## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

I read this today and felt so sad 

This is also happening with Cockapoos (and puppies being "advertised" as Cockapoos here in the UK) and so people must really stop and take a reality check - as buying one of these puppies means another one gets bought into the country this way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19902781

I bang on about people doing the relevant checks - seeing Mum (especially to make sure she is the Mum) and checking the parent's KC or Dog Lover's paperwork - checking health tests and also checking out the "breeder" ! - but with this still in existence I'm happy to keep promoting honest, open and ethical breeding practise.

In reality most puppies should be ready to leave for their new homes at the age of 8 - 10 weeks old - if a breeder is offering older puppies then you need to make sure you are given sound reasons as to why.

I'd also suggest people even take photos of their chosen puppy with it's Mum - and even keep a photo of Dad too with any paperwork you get from the breeder.

Stephen x


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

So so sad, It always amazes me that there are so many people who still buy puppies without going through all the checks etc, I guess some of the people who sell them on are getting more savvy at making things look genuine. The is one rehoming charity - many tears i think it's called, who often have ex breeding bitches and stud dogs to re-home that are in a terrible state. Just wish their were tougher penalties for the puppy farmers - i'm not sure what they are but i'm certain they are not tough enough.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

It is very sad.  

Looking at these though they could be sold together and not as singles. When my parents were looking for a puppy they were going to look at a Cocker Spaniel puppy. The guy told them that the mother might not be there as she was probably going to be spayed. Thank goodness she listened to me when I told her not to go as it nobody would have their dog spayed so soon after giving birth. He knew his stuff though (apart from the spaying thing) and really convinced them that he was credible. 

As said before, always see Mum, visit the breeder, never 'meet' half way, don't have a dog delivered and never be afraid to ask lots of questions. A genuine breeder will always welcome this as it shows you have done your research. If they don't like it then they have something to hide!


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Seven years ago went to see some JR pups after talking to bloke who was advertising them on the phone and he sounded genuine enough. Arrived with my 2 young sons to see the pups, which were obviously of different ages (combination of maybe 3 litters), crawling with fleas and being kept in the back bedroom of a small flat - whole room covered in poop and wee. Man was drunk... said pup's mum was out for a walk...
We left, my boys in tears and wanting to rescue the pups.. but I explained that if we bought one it would give him money that he would then use that money to just buy more pups to sell on.
I phoned the RSPCA and reported what had happened. They said that they suspected the man was buying up pups cheaply in Ireland and bringing them over here to sell at inflated prices and they were investigating...
Horrible to think it is still happening.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

I can quite believe this is happening with cockapoos after finding out this year that Biscuit was not bred from a true cockapoo parent and I now have no idea where half his ancestry really originates from. You are right in that it is a truly sickening trade.


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## Mogdog (Feb 6, 2011)

Sezra said:


> As said before, always see Mum, visit the breeder, never 'meet' half way, don't have a dog delivered and never be afraid to ask lots of questions. A genuine breeder will always welcome this as it shows you have done your research. If they don't like it then they have something to hide!


Totally agree with Sarah's advice, above.

It's very sad this still goes on.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Thats awful and sadly it goes on all over the world and should be stopped.I was speaking to some breeders at crufts about dl registered dogs( dog lovers) and they were very much against it sadly it seems anyone can register a dog with dog lovers and the only oficial reg is kcI actually googled it when i came home from crufts and its worse than what i thought.Seeing mum and pups is a must,i wouldnt buy a pup without seeing mum with pups x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

mandym said:


> Thats awful and sadly it goes on all over the world and should be stopped.I was speaking to some breeders at crufts about dl registered dogs( dog lovers) and they were very much against it sadly it seems anyone can register a dog with dog lovers and the only oficial reg is kcI actually googled it when i came home from crufts and its worse than what i thought.Seeing mum and pups is a must,i wouldnt buy a pup without seeing mum with pups x


Why when we are dealing with "Pets" should the only official paperwork be Kennel Club ? Especially when you can see the degree of generational in-breeding without recourse that has taken place in the "Show World" ? I personally would not want a Cocker (of any type) nor a Poodle without either KC or DL paperwork - but there are loads of the core-breeds (Cockers of all types and Poodles of all types) that don't come with either - they can even have a completely bogus set of papers that can be created from a document that is down-loadable from the internet.

These puppies coming into the UK from Puppy Farms outside the UK don't technically come with any paperwork at all (unless something it astray) - and thus there is a need for these "downloadable pedigrees" that can be filled in with whatever names someone chooses to conjure up - this can be used to mis-lead the innocent - so we always suggest buy a puppy with a fully traceable ancestry.

Along with "Meeting Mum" (which is now becoming commonplace) and checking Health tests (which in recent times is on the increase) - I'd also want people to be able to check the actual parentage of any puppy bought - - - - as that too could potentially highlight any on-going problem.


Don't buy blind - as that's how Your dog could end-up !



Stephen x


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

The only official paper work is just the kennel club,anyone can put in any old paperwork to the dog lovers registration but its not an official site.The breeders i spoke to said it dl papers were worthless which is why i didnt bother going down that road with one of my poodles,i do have parents papers though.x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

mandym said:


> The only official paper work is just the kennel club....


Why breed Cockapoos then ?...............none of them come with Kennel Club papers.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Thats because they are not pedigrees.This is what some of the breeders think of the dog lovers register,i rather just see parents papers,i dont see the point in the dl regx

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/31663.html


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I still value traceability and believe that is why a register should be created for Cockapoos. I have always felt this is important from a health, breeding and tracing ancestors perspective. Even for an F2 whose only ancesters are the F1 parents it is a starting point. At the moment there is nothing available on a wider level for Cockapoo owners. I know there are others but I think a specific Cockapoo register would be invaluable. It doesn't matter what others think of it, these things have to start somewhere. I did think one was going to be created?


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Sezra said:


> I still value traceability and believe that is why a register should be created for Cockapoos. I have always felt this is important from a health, breeding and tracing ancestors perspective. Even for an F2 whose only ancesters are the F1 parents it is a starting point. At the moment there is nothing available on a wider level for Cockapoo owners. I know there are others but I think a specific Cockapoo register would be invaluable. It doesn't matter what others think of it, these things have to start somewhere. I did think one was going to be created?


creating a register is different from dog lovers though,the breeders i spoke to said its not worth the paper its written on,anyone can make up a dl pedigree and no one would know if it was fake or not.People are simply taking the papers of their non registered dog and making up one with dl,hy not just show the papers you have cos the dl means nothing,sorry but i had to mention it because the long converstaion i had about it was still very freash in my memory and feel its important to point out,not connected in any way with a cockapoo register x


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Sezra said:


> I still value traceability and believe that is why a register should be created for Cockapoos. I have always felt this is important from a health, breeding and tracing ancestors perspective. Even for an F2 whose only ancesters are the F1 parents it is a starting point. At the moment there is nothing available on a wider level for Cockapoo owners. I know there are others but I think a specific Cockapoo register would be invaluable. It doesn't matter what others think of it, these things have to start somewhere. I did think one was going to be created?


There is one - but I'm not allowed to tell you where! :laugh:


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> There is one - but I'm not allowed to tell you where! :laugh:


Well what good is that then!


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