# Hip scoring concern



## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

In the last 2 weeks i have met 4 dogs out on a walk with hip dysplasia( 1 lab,1 labradoodle,i cocker spaniel and a brittany spaniel) but the worrying thing is that all parents of these dogs had excellent hip scores.2 of my girls were meant to get their hips done last friday but my friend who was meant to drive me there was ill so i never went but today on a walk i met a lady who told me2 of the cockers she has had in the past have had hip dysplasia,one was the most severe her vet had seen and had a condition where the pup was born without hipsockets,she did tell me the name but i cant remember.Anyway both parents again had perfect hipscores and this is really worrying me.Thats a total of 6 dogs all with hip problems from parents with perfect hips,can anyone explain how this happens and why we actually hipscore? i might also add that the cocker that as the most severe was diagnosed very young and the owner of the labradoodle followed the rules about not too much excersise as a youngster and still has problems xxx


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Wow thats awful, poor dogs and owners. I can only guess that generations of breeding has produced weaknesses in some breeds. That even with perfect scores perhaps there is still a structural weekness there not detectable by x ray. 
I know environmental factors can figure in H.D.
I still think it is worth testing though as I personally would like to know I had done the best I could to make sure puppies had a lower chance of being affected by this.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Ive tried calling my vet to discuss this but havent got a hold of him yet but im going to call another couple of vets i know to try and figure this out.I forgot to mention that a lady in my neighbourhood who looks after guide dog pups for the first year of their lives has had 2 that have failed due to hip problems and although i dont know about their parents hipscores( it was a couple of years ago i spoke to her) i do know that all breeding dogs that produce guide dog pups have to have perfect hip scores. xxx


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

I would interested to know what your vet says Mandy. I know I'm a bit paranoid but I got my vet to check Betty out recently as she was doing an occasional skip off one leg...he assures me she is fine. I read an article a while ago by
Mr Burns ( of Burns dog food) - he dismisses the ''not too much exercise too early theory'' as he said it is important to build muscle tone early on and that you would never stop a child from running around etc...obviously just his opinion but makes you wonder.


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> I would interested to know what your vet says Mandy. I know I'm a bit paranoid but I got my vet to check Betty out recently as she was doing an occasional skip off one leg...he assures me she is fine. I read an article a while ago by
> Mr Burns ( of Burns dog food) - he dismisses the ''not too much exercise too early theory'' as he said it is important to build muscle tone early on and that you would never stop a child from running around etc...obviously just his opinion but makes you wonder.


I will let you know but im going to ask a few vets opinions.I know quite a few because i sometimes take clients dogs to the the vet.One of my clients is a vet nurse and she said most dogs with hip problems are taken to the vets by their owners by a year old because they have noticed a problem with their dogs ie the way they are walking,struggling to jump up etc. xxx


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

When Nadine found out about Treacle i googled hip dysplasia and my understanding was yes even if both parents have a good hip score they may still have pups with it.
Also a trauma to the area could also be the cause.
I was confused about the hip score thing i suppose if the dog had a really high hip score that could mean its more likely to have puppies with the condition ???


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

There is no guarantee that because the parents (and even grandparents) have good hip scores the pups will be ok. This doesn't mean that parent dogs shouldnt be hip scored as it is normally a hereditary problem.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Presumably if only low scoring dogs are bred from, it would eventually be largely eradicated.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> I would interested to know what your vet says Mandy. I know I'm a bit paranoid but I got my vet to check Betty out recently as she was doing an occasional skip off one leg...he assures me she is fine. I read an article a while ago by
> Mr Burns ( of Burns dog food) - he dismisses the ''not too much exercise too early theory'' as he said it is important to build muscle tone early on and that you would never stop a child from running around etc...obviously just his opinion but makes you wonder.


Snap Colin!! Biscuit has been doing little skips off one leg for the last few days too! - there's always something to worry about! x


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Watching Treacle now at agility i can really see the difference ,she sits to the side ,when she runs you can see her hips go to the side and she does a kinda bunny hop.

I know its an awful condition to have but Treacle is still living her life and loving it,if shes tired she'll take a rest but if she wants to she'll join in and give chase just like Buddy and Clyde,i think Nadine and Treacle are an inspiration.
(Hope you dont mind me talking about Treacle Nadine?)


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## susanb (Jan 19, 2012)

As far as I have read, its a bit like PRA in that a dog can be a carrier of HD without showing any symptoms. If two carriers breed then there is a chance that any of the puppies can have HD. But, I don't think there is any genetic test for it like there is for PRA - so I don't think you can ever be 100% sure. But I guess that if several generations of a family hip score low, then that reduces the chances of any of the future generations being affected.


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## JulesB (Mar 6, 2011)

Janev1000 said:


> Snap Colin!! Biscuit has been doing little skips off one leg for the last few days too! - there's always something to worry about! x


Betty does this too, she got rolled by another much bigger cockapoo as a puppy and she limped for a few days but since then has always hopped on one back leg downstairs. I got the vet to check her hips because of this and he said she's fine.

Interesting thread!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

It's worth getting knees checked if your dog is hopping, especially in the toy crosses.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Flo often skips on her back legs too. She's been checked twice by the vet through manipulation and there appears to be no problem.

Hip scoring is about minimising the risk as it will detect physical deformity that might result in HP and could be hereditary. If one or both parents have good hip scores then that minimises the risk of puppies having poor hips and potential HP. Hips are affected by other factors though like diet, injury, too little or too much exercise. It's not clear cut but hip scoring is desirable to reduce inherited hip problems. Also it is good practice to hip check a bitch so you know she will not have problems carrying the puppies and whelping.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Interesting article here about hip dysplaysia and genetics 

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/chd.html

In a nutshell it is linked to the genetics but not in a simple clear parents = clear pups way. Instead many different genes are thought to be involved and outside factors can also have an influence.

Breeding from dogs with the best hip scores increases the chances of having better pups - but sadly does not guarantee it.

For skipping on back legs I would definitely get an experienced vet to check for luxating patella - the first vet who saw Molly when she was in pain did not find a problem with her knees at all. A specialist found her knees were both severely affected and a more experienced "normal" vet found the same.


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Mine is an older vet and seemed quite thorough....he said thar her patellas were fine but will keep an eye on it for sure, haven't seen any signs of pain or discomfort so far....


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## Rubydoo (May 11, 2011)

Lack of exercise as a puppy can also be the problem. Personally I believe the 5 minutes walk per month of age to be crock. If your dog / puppy is not getting enough exercise outside the house they are more likely to do more damage by over excitedness indoors!

A friend of mine had a lab who was a prize specimen from fantastic lines, she followed all the 5 min guidelines and wrapped him in cotton wool. When she had him xrayed his hips were shocking... His parents had great scores. She then relaxed, let him exercise as much as he could and it rightened itself and he ended up with a great hip score. It is as much to do with the muscle tone as the hip itself. The muscle helps to pull the hip into the socket and keep it in place.

Also when having your dog hip scored I would go to a vet that has experience in getting good scores. An inexperienced vet could attribute to a bad score as there is an art to getting them in the correct positions!

James x


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Watching Treacle now at agility i can really see the difference ,she sits to the side ,when she runs you can see her hips go to the side and she does a kinda bunny hop.
> 
> I know its an awful condition to have but Treacle is still living her life and loving it,if shes tired she'll take a rest but if she wants to she'll join in and give chase just like Buddy and Clyde,i think Nadine and Treacle are an inspiration.
> (Hope you dont mind me talking about Treacle Nadine?)


It would be really useful if Nadine could post a video of this to help alert others that may be worried. Big ask I know....


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I will ask her im sure she wouldnt mind ,we wont see each other for a couple of weeks now but will mention it next time we chat x


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> Mine is an older vet and seemed quite thorough....he said thar her patellas were fine but will keep an eye on it for sure, haven't seen any signs of pain or discomfort so far....


That sounds good!!

Watching how dogs move can be an indication but is not the total story. At the time of her diagnosis Molly was showing lots of problems with her back legs the way she moved and was not using her legs well. After lots of physio she has learned to use her legs properly and the specialist was really pleased and commented that nobody could now tell from her movement that she had any problem at all.

Moving well will keep her muscles working correctly and protect her knees as much as possible and also keep her as pain free as possible despite kneecaps which are still constantly slipping.


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