# £1200 for a puppy...choking on my tea!



## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Just browsing through Pre-loved to avoid doing the bathrooms and found this little Cockapoo looking for a new home already! 

http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1034450687/54064c4d.html

Whilst looking I came across an advert for F1 Cockapoos for £1200   :eek The advertiser describes Show Cockers as 'nasty', and suggests not to buy a Cockapoo if the Poodle is not the Dad as the puppies wont be non moulting. They also describe them as the No.1 choice assistant dogs ! No mention of health checks! Terrible... For the bargain price of £1200 hno: :tapedshut:


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I have seen a few pups advertised at £1200... is it worth it, some are, some aren't :S

This like goes to a black pup for £500... dont do it to me Sarah ...ha ha ha


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## Turi (Jun 28, 2011)

Sarah - it makes me so sad that someone would buy a puppy on impulse only to sell it on three weeks later. In an ideal world people would think about their work commitments before even thinking of getting a puppy. At least the current owner is selling her on – hopefully a more contentious owner will offer her a lovely home. 

Turi x


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Terrible price.
But I guess everything has a value and if someone is prepared to pay £1200 then that's what its worth.
Personally I think that is rather steep and I doubt I would have gone higher than the £850 I paid - that was a push really.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Sarah step away .. dont look any further ha ha ha... I just flicked preloved ... some adverts just shock me ...


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Agree with Sarah (fallon) puppy should go back to breeder...and so young, puppies are hard work ... a good breeder will tell buyers this too... 

Would I pay £1200... ummm I think so .. if it was a good breeder and the puppy for me, but it is steep.. I wouldn't buy 3 for sure ha ha ha...


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

fallon said:


> Also the puppy should go back to the breeder ! x


That is what I was thinking. The trouble is though depending on where they bought it from in the first place, they might not be able to? Or maybe they will lose their money and would rather try and sell her  Such a shame for the poor pup!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

have you enquired about the puppy sarah... she is cute ... but what cockapoo isnt


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Agree with Sarah (fallon) puppy should go back to breeder...and so young, puppies are hard work ... a good breeder will tell buyers this too...
> 
> Would I pay £1200... ummm I think so .. if it was a good breeder and the puppy for me, but it is steep.. I wouldn't buy 3 for sure ha ha ha...


I wouldn't pay it, it is too much. I would pay up to £900 max and I would want both parents health tested for that. Don't get me wrong, I adore Cockapoos and I would obviously have another  but I don't think they warrant £1200! If that became the norm I would rather not support the breeders. No more work goes onto breeding a Cockapoo than any other type of dog so although they are completely adorable it is unjustifiable IMHO and breeders will only be charging this amount because they feel the puppy buying public will pay it!

Apologies for being so moany, don't want to offend anyone! Most unlike me for a friday lunch time , not even had any wine!  That will be for later! 

P.s No JoJo, too early for no.2 at the moment!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Totally agree it is very pricey ...as we are having a girly Friday moan .. I think I will too  

As you all know I have contacted many breeder when searching for all my cockapoos and yes I have made a few mistakes along the way, I am only human after all... but it amazes me how one breeder can charge eg £850 for a puppy with no injections, no microchip, no health testing and then another breeder can .... don’t get me wrong paying £1200 wouldn’t be ideal at all ... and I agree totally with what Sarah is saying.

I personally I don’t think the price is important .. hence why I would pay whatever for a puppy .. I think the one to one care, love and health is what I am willing to pay for .... 

I was going to start waffling them .. but you know what I mean .... I know what is important to me when I am on a puppy search, and if the breeder doesn't tick that box I just don’t consider them at all, the last thing I look at is the price ...


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Totally agree it is very pricey ...as we are having a girly Friday moan .. I think I will too
> 
> As you all know I have contacted many breeder when searching for all my cockapoos and yes I have made a few mistakes along the way, I am only human after all... but it amazes me how one breeder can charge eg £850 for a puppy with no injections, no microchip, no health testing and then another breeder can .... don’t get me wrong paying £1200 wouldn’t be ideal at all ... and I agree totally with what Sarah is saying.
> 
> ...


I do completely agree the price is not the main consideration but I still think there should be a limit. I think health testing etc for the standard price (£850 to £950) should be what is expected, it is a lot of money for some people and as that is at the top end of puppy prices I would expect all of my boxes to be ticked! I am very demanding...can you tell!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I have a pile of ironing I should be doing ha ha ha ...

What do we think the ideal price is for a cockapoo? 
What would that breeder offer for this fair price?

I think this could be interesting ...

Also I am sure many of you have searched high and low when looking for your cockapoos, what would you personally be looking for when buying your next puppy ...

I really should be ironing but I hate ironing xxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I have to pop out to buy my Granny a birthday present but I will answer quickly with spelling mistakes! 

I think a fair price is between £800 and £950 but definitely not over £1000! 

For that I would like to see home breeder, both parents health tested, puppies used to noise, children etc, microchipped, wormed, etc and preferable KC registered so that I knew both parents were pedigree Cocker/Spaniels. The last bit wouldn't be essential re pedigrees but I would prefer this, I would also like traceability of parents, as I think this is important regarding hereditary diseases etc. Lots of etcs!  I would consider a larger breeder if it ticked all of the above. I think even if you are breeding for the pet market both parents should be health tested, you just never know if accidental matings might occur or Jo Bloggs who wants a cute pet suddenly decides to jump on the 'breeding bandwagon' without thinking about the implications. 

Anyway off prezzie shopping before the school run! Does my breeder exist JoJo? Maybe I could have one of your puppies when you have some? 

xxx


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Great wish list ... & not far off my own requirements  

Agree about the pricing too .. I wouldn't ummm about paying 800-950 but the £1200 does come with an ummmmm ... like I say its not the price its the breeder and the puppy for me. 

Does this breeder exist, good question ... yes of course they do  always stay positive when on your puppy search  There are some fabulous breeders out there, it is just we all have our own opinion when it comes to puppy shopping ... xxx

Enjoy the pressie shopping xxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sezra said:


> Just browsing through Pre-loved to avoid doing the bathrooms and found this little Cockapoo looking for a new home already!
> 
> http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1034450687/54064c4d.html
> 
> Whilst looking I came across an advert for F1 Cockapoos for £1200   :eek The advertiser describes Show Cockers as 'nasty', and suggests not to buy a Cockapoo if the Poodle is not the Dad as the puppies wont be non moulting. They also describe them as the No.1 choice assistant dogs ! No mention of health checks! Terrible... For the bargain price of £1200 hno: :tapedshut:




You see many a sad advert on there hence why I don't look. 

The F1 cockapoos advertised for £1200 are shocking- only in it for the money and I hope to god that they don't find any people who would pay that for a non- tested dog that far exceeds it's pedigree parents.

It's breeders like this who give the good breeders a bad name!!


I think as more and more become familiar with health tests etc... people will demand more from breeders and will be wanting both parents health tested and not just PRA for the poodle stud.

If you are paying £800-950 for a cockapoo then you should expect that all the relevant heath tests have been done on both dogs.

If there are Pedigree breeders out there doing all the tests, selecting the best studs and some having proven dogs in the show ring and can trace their dog lines and are selling puppies for around £ 550-650 ( I know some from another forum) then I can see why cockapoo owners get a lot of stick when we pay £200-300 more for dogs where only one has been tested etc......

( cuteness aside of course  )

I actually think cockapoos have become very expensive and would like to see them at around £500-700 mark or what cockers and poodles are going for add together and divide for an average 


I'm not a tight wad and love cockapoos but just being realistic


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Sezra said:


> Whilst looking I came across an advert for F1 Cockapoos for £1200   :eek The advertiser describes Show Cockers as 'nasty', and suggests not to buy a Cockapoo if the Poodle is not the Dad as the puppies wont be non moulting. They also describe them as the No.1 choice assistant dogs ! No mention of health checks! Terrible... For the bargain price of £1200 hno: :tapedshut:


I saw that ad as well and given the shocking mis-information in the ad wouldn't touch them with a very long barge pole. Buyer beware.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

> or what cockers and poodles are going for add together and divide for an average


Perhaps even the more expensive of the 2 breeds would be a "fair" price? 
Having been through the "process" once, and found MY ideal breeder, they can hold me to ransom next time  So, what I'd like is a cross between Izzy and her siblings, Honey's pups, George, Rupert, Biscuit, Flo, Oakley...... or maybe a chocolate sable......ooh, can you get apricot sable? :laugh:


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Maybe for one of Mandys Merles


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

I see posts like that with young young pups all the time...it is so sad, I always e-mail the poster and offer that if they are stuck I will take the pup from them, but i guess it is more about the money than the pup it's self....but yes it should go back to the breeder.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Great wish list ... & not far off my own requirements
> 
> Agree about the pricing too .. I wouldn't ummm about paying 800-950 but the £1200 does come with an ummmmm ... like I say its not the price its the breeder and the puppy for me.
> 
> ...


Told you I was rushing! Whilst wandering round laura Ashley I remembered I would also check parent dogs temperaments and they would have to meet my breeding requirements for the bitches etc etc more etcs! Not going to drone on! Hahahah! 

Agree with M&M Mummy aswell! :twothumbs:

Not typing anymore going to make a brew!


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

M&M's mummy said:


> I think as more and more become familiar with health tests etc... people will demand more from breeders and will be wanting both parents health tested and not just PRA for the poodle stud.


That's why forums like this are so valuable. Lots of educated buyers out there now.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

It is an expensive process to produce a healthy puppy from good parents to 8 weeks old if you do everything that you 'should do' for the puppies. My instinct tells me that around £850 per pup feels a fair price but I would agree that for such a price they should be given the 'full monty' - traceable parents, both parents health tested, wormed every 2 weeks from 2 weeks old, flea treated, ears checked and treated if necessary, nails trimmed, 1st vaccination, microchipped, weaned onto quality food, socialized, full husbandry record with dates, puppy care and training information guide, scent toy, weaning food, shampoo and de-tangle spray...and complete lifetime support and unquestioning return to breeder. 

We very briefly toyed with the idea of asking £900 but it felt out of kilter to me with the market, the customers and who we wanted to sell our puppies to. So have stuck at £850 for both sexes and all colours...same price. Who am I to say that one colour is more desirable than another? 

Lots of you will be on the ball I'm sure and query me saying 'both parents health tested'. With no external pressure we were one of the first one to advertise that our stud dogs were OptiGen A tested, as I felt it right to ensure that none of these pets would suffer an easily avoidable eye disease. I now have the feeling that we should know if our puppies could be either prcd-PRA Normal/Clear or Carriers, even though none will get the disease. So we have already started the huge and expensive task of DNA testing all of our bitches too. If anyone does wish to breed on to F2 and beyond making sure that you don't breed two carriers together or inbreed common ancestry has to be paramount, in my opinion.

Julia xx


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## Cockapoodledoo (Feb 8, 2011)

A very appropriate next stage for JD.  ......I guess the mediterranean cruise will have to wait until next year then? Lol 

Karen xx


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

Hi Julia!
Your prices are almost the same as breeders here in Canada too. they charge around $1200 dollars for a pup, however from getting to know you guys as breeders you do offer even better service to everyone...interesting to me that the prices are so similar so far away.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> It is an expensive process to produce a healthy puppy from good parents to 8 weeks old if you do everything that you 'should do' for the puppies. My instinct tells me that around £850 per pup feels a fair price but I would agree that for such a price they should be given the 'full monty' - traceable parents, both parents health tested, wormed every 2 weeks from 2 weeks old, flea treated, ears checked and treated if necessary, nails trimmed, 1st vaccination, microchipped, weaned onto quality food, socialized, full husbandry record with dates, puppy care and training information guide, scent toy, weaning food, shampoo and de-tangle spray...and complete lifetime support and unquestioning return to breeder.
> 
> We very briefly toyed with the idea of asking £900 but it felt out of kilter to me with the market, the customers and who we wanted to sell our puppies to. So have stuck at £850 for both sexes and all colours...same price. Who am I to say that one colour is more desirable than another?
> 
> ...




I know you have said that you get a lot of your bitches as failed gun dogs. Do any of them come from breeders who did health tests?

I know a lot of problems for F1 crossbreeders is finding cocker bitches who have come from breeders who have done all the relevant tests- because normally they hate to sell their bitches if they know they are going to be crossbred from.

I can understand why cross breeders would keep that part to themselves if need be.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2011)

That advert is from a man called mike in dorset he states that if the mother is the poodle they will moult ? And show cockers are nasty? And he offers a years membership to the cockapoo club of gb whos that ?

JULIA I HAVE BEEN OPTIGEN TESTING FOR 5YEARS AND HALF MY GIRLS ARE TESTED AS WELL I AGREE WITH YOU £850 IS A REASONABLE COST MINE START AT £675 TO £875 JANICE


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

romeo said:


> That advert is from a man called mike in dorset he states that if the mother is the poodle they will moult ? And show cockers are nasty? And he offers a years membership to the cockapoo club of gb whos that ?


I think Mike from Dorset is somewhat :question::huh:hno::whatever:


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Janice you breed with Poodle mums dont you... and their coats look lovely x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> I know you have said that you get a lot of your bitches as failed gun dogs. Do any of them come from breeders who did health tests?
> 
> I know a lot of problems for F1 crossbreeders is finding cocker bitches who have come from breeders who have done all the relevant tests- because normally they hate to sell their bitches if they know they are going to be crossbred from.
> 
> I can understand why cross breeders would keep that part to themselves if need be.


If we are lucky then we get our bitches from gamekeepers, but with respect it sounds to me that you don't quite understand the process. Gamekeepers use working cockers as tools for their job. They need to gel with the dog as the cockers are used mostly for flushing game so have to be intelligent and second guess what the Gamekeeper wants so some degree. So chemistry with the dog is vital for a productive working relationship. They will very often choose two well bred bitch pups from proven working parents, if there are any known health issues then they are not considered in the first place. They run them on and train them for a year and wouldn't waste their time if the dog might break down. At the end of the year they will choose which one they gel with and then sell on the other normally to other keepers unless we can find them first. So none of them are 'failed' as you put it and some of ours have worked a full season before we took them on. Gamekeepers don't mind in the slightest that we wish to crossbreed with them and are very open and informative.

As we don't use American or English Show cockers due to our own personal preference then I don't have experience of the reaction of those breeders to the crossbreeding world. From what you are saying they sound more 'snobby' about crossbreeds.....and yet they have no conscience about inbreeding?

Julia x


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> It is an expensive process to produce a healthy puppy from good parents to 8 weeks old if you do everything that you 'should do' for the puppies. My instinct tells me that around £850 per pup feels a fair price but I would agree that for such a price they should be given the 'full monty' - traceable parents, both parents health tested, wormed every 2 weeks from 2 weeks old, flea treated, ears checked and treated if necessary, nails trimmed, 1st vaccination, microchipped, weaned onto quality food, socialized, full husbandry record with dates, puppy care and training information guide, scent toy, weaning food, shampoo and de-tangle spray...and complete lifetime support and unquestioning return to breeder.
> 
> We very briefly toyed with the idea of asking £900 but it felt out of kilter to me with the market, the customers and who we wanted to sell our puppies to. So have stuck at £850 for both sexes and all colours...same price. Who am I to say that one colour is more desirable than another?
> 
> ...


That's great!


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

As there are also a fair number of young cockapoos (amongst every other breed) being sold by owners could I add to the list of requirements for a breeder that they thoroughly vet prospective owners to try and weed out those who are going to be unsuitable and try to prevent some of these dogs being rehomed.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> If we are lucky then we get our bitches from gamekeepers, but with respect it sounds to me that you don't quite understand the process. Gamekeepers use working cockers as tools for their job. They need to gel with the dog as the cockers are used mostly for flushing game so have to be intelligent and second guess what the Gamekeeper wants so some degree. So chemistry with the dog is vital for a productive working relationship. They will very often choose two well bred bitch pups from proven working parents, if there are any known health issues then they are not considered in the first place. They run them on and train them for a year and wouldn't waste their time if the dog might break down. At the end of the year they will choose which one they gel with and then sell on the other normally to other keepers unless we can find them first. So none of them are 'failed' as you put it and some of ours have worked a full season before we took them on. Gamekeepers don't mind in the slightest that we wish to crossbreed with them and are very open and informative.
> 
> As we don't use American or English Show cockers due to our own personal preference then I don't have experience of the reaction of those breeders to the crossbreeding world. From what you are saying they sound more 'snobby' about crossbreeds.....and yet they have no conscience about inbreeding?
> 
> Julia x


 No I don't much about the gamekeeping side of things you are right.

I was just asking about the health tests with your gamekeeper cockers as depending on what they were used for some may have come from health tested lines and thought that would have some bearing on your planned tests.
Obviously depends on the gamekeepers you are getting them from. 

Not all gamekeepers dogs are used for flushing but for "dogging in".


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

All types of gundogs are used for dogging in (rounding up stray game and pushing them back to the centre of the shoot). Some Gamekeepers will keep one dog specifically for that purpose amongst several others.

More and more working dogs are being eye tested in the working field, but it isn't mandatory yet and still is a bit hit and miss. As for the Working Cocker breeders my experience is that not so many do DNA testing but they are more often BVA eye tested. Which is odd because my experience of the two tests (Ziggy has had both) is that the DNA (taking a small amount of blood) is far less of an ordeal to the dog than the manual eye test.

Julia x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

romeo said:


> That advert is from a man called mike in dorset he states that if the mother is the poodle they will moult ? And show cockers are nasty? And he offers a years membership to the cockapoo club of gb whos that ?
> 
> JULIA I HAVE BEEN OPTIGEN TESTING FOR 5YEARS AND HALF MY GIRLS ARE TESTED AS WELL I AGREE WITH YOU £850 IS A REASONABLE COST MINE START AT £675 TO £875 JANICE


Now I know who you're talking about, I saw an ad like that last year...with the membership thing.

Yes I had seen you mention that you are in the process of testing OptiGen testing your girls. Have you used the UK lab yet?

Juliax


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Sezra said:


> Told you I was rushing! Whilst wandering round laura Ashley I remembered I would also check parent dogs temperaments and they would have to meet my breeding requirements for the bitches etc etc more etcs! Not going to drone on! Hahahah!
> 
> Agree with M&M Mummy aswell! :twothumbs:
> 
> Not typing anymore going to make a brew!


Sarah... yep viewing the mum and dad if possible.. etc etc I am with you and know what you mean ... quality dogs from quality breeders  

Oh yes a brew   my kind of gal ... 

Love a long dog walk followed by a brew with cake or biscuits .. drink far too much tea xxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

You can't beat a good cuppa!  Hope to meet you in October for the next meet. We can have a Cockapoo chat over a cuppa then, and I will bring the Brownies (cakes not small children!) xx


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Now that made me chuckle... Brownies ...   

I may have problem with the Surrey meet ... as you know I am visiting my possible new pup this week and if all goes well (which I think it will yippy, hold your excitement JoJo) I will be getting her a few days before the meet ... ummmm ... tricky ...


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Now that made me chuckle... Brownies ...
> 
> I may have problem with the Surrey meet ... as you know I am visiting my possible new pup this week and if all goes well (which I think it will yippy, hold your excitement JoJo) I will be getting her a few days before the meet ... ummmm ... tricky ...


Oh that would be a shame  but also incredibly exciting for you  ! Can't you pop her in your pocket or something!   x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

ha ha ha did think about this, as I am bursting to meet you all ... 

I am emailing the breeder like crazy  building a great relationship which is important to me, I am sooooo excited ... still no confirmed name yet ..... xxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

It is such an exciting time! I can't wait to hear about your visit and your new puppy! I hope everything goes brilliantly for you next week!


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2011)

julia pm,d you janice


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you Sarah .. I hope you like her and approve of my chosen breeder  

I have been very cautious in my recent puppy search for various reasons and I am pleased to say I have found a breeder who ticks all my boxes, which is rare... I am a fussy customer these days ... I may do a JoJo wish list so you can see what I personally expect from a breeder.. :S

As many of you know I like good breeding and I think it is important to know your breeding dogs health, character etc prior to breeding them. 

I would prefer to buy from a breeder who Optigen tests all their breeding dogs prior to breeding, yes Clear, Carrier and Affected dogs can be used in any breeding programme, it is all about knowing what you are actually breeding and why you are breeding your chosen dog... this allows the breeder to know what puppies can be expected from this litter including health, temperament, possible colour (although this one is harder to predict for even the more experienced breeders)..... actually colour would be the last thing on my list when matching mates .. don’t get me wrong the colours do excite me but there is so much more to be considered.. and I will continue to learn even before breeding, if I ever do breed that is  

Breeding and knowledge of the breed, there are so many breeders out there who claim to be experienced and really know so much about breeding and their chosen breed (which they may do), I have contacted and research many during my search, but they still don’t tick all the boxes... you would think these breeders should be the best surely :S 

Ok I am a fuss pot maybe .. but it just shocks me really that there aren’t many breeders I would be happy to buy from ....


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Now that made me chuckle... Brownies ...
> 
> I may have problem with the Surrey meet ... as you know I am visiting my possible new pup this week and if all goes well (which I think it will yippy, hold your excitement JoJo) I will be getting her a few days before the meet ... ummmm ... tricky ...


Jojo, you HAVE to come to the Surrey meet, would love to meet you and the dogs. Put puppy in your jacket and let he enjoy the view (assuming it is a her?) 

Clare
x


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree JoJo and I think what has changed is that as people use forums etc.... and get familiar with what ideally should be done prior to breeding etc... then they do start to question breeders.

Where once they may have " accepted" what a breeder says now people have the knowledge to know if what has been said it correct. Then when you have your own standards of what you require based on what you have learned the search becomes more difficult.

Years ago it was get a puppy that you can see either both parents or at least the mum and see how clean the place is.

Now we all know it's far far more than that ..........

Hopefully as buyers become more knowledgable it will hopefully get the not so good breeders to raise their standards because as the message gets across unless they do people will not buy from them like they used to. Well I hope not anyway!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Clare I will try my best promise xxx I really want to go .. just want to meet you all 

M&M yep you are right, but why breed when all these things are taken into consideration or in order.... maybe it just me, maybe I am too focused on knowing your dogs before breeding... I just hope if people follow my blog they will pick a good breeder xxx I know buying a puppy is a personal experience but at the same time I hope I make people about who they are actually buying from .. kind of learn from my mistakes and my research :S


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

JoJo said:


> I would prefer to buy from a breeder who Optigen tests all their breeding dogs prior to breeding, yes Clear, Carrier and Affected dogs can be used in any breeding programme, it is all about knowing what you are actually breeding and why you are breeding your chosen dog... this allows the breeder to know what puppies can be expected from this litter including health, temperament, possible colour (although this one is harder to predict for even the more experienced breeders)..... actually colour would be the last thing on my list when matching mates .. don’t get me wrong the colours do excite me but there is so much more to be considered.. and I will continue to learn even before breeding, if I ever do breed that is


Would you breed from an Affected dog, JoJo? I think with the knowledge i have now I wouldn't want to breed with a dog that was affected, even if it was to a clear partner. Which is why we have now set about testing all of our girls too. What will be interesting will be if any of the ones that have BVA tested Unaffected parents come back and test as DNA Carriers.

Julia x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

With good breeding practice the aimed outcome is Clear or Carrier for the whole or part of the litter in my opinion.. so there shouldn't be any affected pups out there really....

My point really was its all about knowing your breeding stock prior to breeding and what the possible outcome could be ... and I think one DNA clear parent is essential ... 

BVA clear parents .. may have DNA carrier or DNA affected in the litter, please share your finding Julia, I will be very interested. 

What will you do Julia if some of your dogs are carriers and affected ... will you change your breeding plan to compliment the mating? I think this would be acceptable ... 

As long as you are not selling affected pups .. that would be awful... which you arent as your Poodles are DNA clear... 

You sell your puppies as pets ... but I guess you should know if you are handing over a clear or carrier pup .. or a possible clear/ carrier .. just in case a wanna be breeder comes along requesting a clear pup etc ....

oh no I am waffling .. sorry doing that alot today .. get me onto health testing and I am away ...


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I didn't even answer you question .. doh .. 

No I wouldn't breed from an Optigen prcd-PRA tested Affected dog... but there shouldn't be any out there really ...

xxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I think it is great that all the breeding dogs and bitches will be tested. However my only concern if selling PRA carriers would be that as breeders you have no guarantee as to the future of any pups that you sell. Joe Blogs might not plan on becoming a breeder but accidents happen and people change their mind. With Cockapoos becoming more popular you might find more and more people putting their pets together without any research.  At least if you are selling PRA clear puppies the disease wont be passed on whether in an infected or carrier form. You see JoJo now I am waffling! Off to make another cup of tea!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Ha ha ha ... Sarah .. put the kettle on .. on my way 

I have decided after my Eevee situation ... that when I/ if I sell a puppy to someone who wishes to breed .. I will actually get that pup in question Optigen tested myself ... also I will only sell puppy as pets .. but I understand situations may change .. that’s why all my dogs will be tested and I will know the outcome of each litter too.. or possible outcome.

Agreed two DNA clear parents are ideal .. however everything has to be right .. the character of mum and dad have to complement each other, the breed mix, the background colouring etc .. health is highly important but there is also the bigger picture .. if you know what I mean... the whole package .. the 1:1 care each litter gets .. what else does the breeder / this litter offer ... 

I would be happy to buy from a breeder who health tests all their dogs prior to breeding and assesses the character/ nature / temperament .. plus matches together the best possible mates for all the reasons... but then they would have to go through the rest of my wish list too ha ha ha 

All this should be done prior to breeding any two dogs ... it really isn’t about just putting together any two dogs .. clear or not clear ... it is quite difficult to do it right ... 

As you know I have been searching for a puppy .. and wow it was so hard ... I would have only been happy to visit a possible 2-3 breeders... that speaks volumes in itself. 

See waffling again...


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Hey if I am not lucky enough to ever have my own litter .. I could just be a Breeder Reporter ... visit all the breeders advertising and give real feedback on them .. I am sure all breeders would welcome me into their premises and homes .. I would enjoy that as a hobby  

Giggling here .. I can imagine breeders going OH no its JoJo from My Dogs Life or JoJo from ILMC .. help .... ha ha ha ... 

Well its an idea... I could give a JoJo rating .. what do you think?


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

I love it!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Ha ha ha ... Sarah .. put the kettle on .. on my way
> 
> I have decided after my Eevee situation ... that when I/ if I sell a puppy to someone who wishes to breed .. I will actually get that pup in question Optigen tested myself ... also I will only sell puppy as pets .. but I understand situations may change .. that’s why all my dogs will be tested and I will know the outcome of each litter too.. or possible outcome.
> 
> ...


Completely agree, only a part of the picture but an important part. 

Yes, rate them all, I would like to do that, I am not sure all breeders would welcome it though, would have to be undercover! :spy:


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh dear team JoJo / Sarah .. Profession : breeder raters  

Ha ha ha all joking aside I would love to do that ... of course they would welcome it ... they want a five paw cockapoo rating afterall  

I wouldn't want to do it undercover .. it would feel naughty ha ha ha .. I am too upfront for that ..

Ok waffle over .. I did warn you I lived in my own little JoJo world


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Oh dear team JoJo / Sarah .. Profession : breeder raters
> 
> Ha ha ha all joking aside I would love to do that ... of course they would welcome it ... they want a five paw cockapoo rating afterall
> 
> ...


LOL Don't even try to do it undercover :spy: We get 'moles' here checking us out every now and then and they stand out like a sore thumb.  J xx


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

WHAT!!!!!
OMG - who sends them? Is it other breeders checking out the "competition"?
Some people are unbelievable!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> LOL Don't even try to do it undercover :spy: We get 'moles' here checking us out every now and then and they stand out like a sore thumb.  J xx


Really!  Who are they? How can you tell? I'm intrigued!  Do they take notes or have secret recording equipment?  :spy: :laugh:


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

That's just weird? moles?? why? ah other breeders.. why dont they just ask you .. I have always asked others breeders questions .. some advice you take and some you dont .. I would only want to see there set up invited or request an invite .. not sneaky it just wouldnt feel right ... at all 

No I wouldn't do it undercover at all .. I may think about it though, it would really help new puppy buyers ... I could travel the UK .. I would be the one wearing ILMC or My Dogs Life tshirt, clip board in my hand and ready to have puppy play first check  I wouldn't be easily missed thats for sure .... 

All joking aside .. its not a bad idea ... and I would love it ..


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> That's just weird? moles?? why? ah other breeders.. why dont they just ask you .. I have always asked others breeders questions .. some advice you take and some you dont .. I would only want to see there set up invited or request an invite .. not sneaky it just wouldnt feel right ... at all
> 
> No I wouldn't do it undercover at all .. I may think about it though, it would really help new puppy buyers ... I could travel the UK .. I would be the one wearing ILMC or My Dogs Life tshirt, clip board in my hand and ready to have puppy play first check  I wouldn't be easily missed thats for sure ....
> 
> All joking aside .. its not a bad idea ... and I would love it ..


Hmmm, maybe I could do that and also be a restaurant critic, I could then check out the breeders and then go and have a lovely meal!  A breeder guide is useful, isn't that similar to the Cockapoo club thing where they have a star rating? Not that we have one of those yet (not meaning to start new contoversial topic!   ) I don't suppose they actually visit the breeders though?  It would be a nice job, going to play with doggies everyday.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

No lets not go onto the club topic please  ... a club can't be started by a breeder as it would just be another selling place, it just woulgnt count for anything .. a breeder rating is only want the breeder tells you on a club .. we need further investigations ... I am teasing a bit there ... sorry .. trying to lighten it JoJo style 

Breeders could only be rated by someone who simply represents good breeding ummmm ... 

Oh no dinner .... see spending too much time waffling .. I told you xxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

JoJo said:


> With good breeding practice the aimed outcome is Clear or Carrier for the whole or part of the litter in my opinion.. so there shouldn't be any affected pups out there really....
> 
> My point really was its all about knowing your breeding stock prior to breeding and what the possible outcome could be ... and I think one DNA clear parent is essential ...
> 
> ...




Mini Poodles and cockers have different recommended health testing requirements.

Poodles eye is test for GPRA also known as prcd-PRA 

Cockers should be tested for eyes for GPRA and CPRA and Glaucoma

Also tested for FN ( Familial Nethropathy) and some are now testing for HD too.

So ideally I would like to see all the relevant health tests done and not just GPRA.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> WHAT!!!!!
> OMG - who sends them? Is it other breeders checking out the "competition"?
> Some people are unbelievable!





Sezra said:


> Really!  Who are they? How can you tell? I'm intrigued!  Do they take notes or have secret recording equipment?  :spy: :laugh:


How cool...first time I've worked out how to multi quote. roud:

We think it's always from other breeders. 'Moles' always know too much and ask very pertinent questions. And bless them they always look so defensive. Don't know why they feel they have to try and be secretive, if they want to have a nose round and talk about Cockapoos and breeding, if they just asked we'd put the kettle on. 

J xx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> How cool...first time I've worked out how to multi quote. roud:
> 
> We think it's always from other breeders. 'Moles' always know too much and ask very pertinent questions. And bless them they always look so defensive. Don't know why they feel they have to try and be secretive, if they want to have a nose round and talk about Cockapoos and breeding, if they just asked we'd put the kettle on.
> 
> J xx


Well done for the multi quoting!  

Kettle? JoJo and I will be round shortly, I will bring the cake!  

Does it make you a bit wary of people especially with the recent puppy thefts? After all it is your home aswell?

I once took on a work experience girl for a week, it was not successful, she had a terrible attititude and seemed to think it was ok to chat to your boyfriend constantly on the phone!  At the end of it she stole my phone (smart phones had only really just come put then) and some cash from my employee.  It made me feel quite vulnerable that she had been in my house, knew my routine etc. It is very sad but I wont do it again, I am not prepared to put myself in that position. 

Blimey that was a bit glum  Back to Cockapoos!


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I had "mystery shoppers" when my business was a franchise. It was so funny, spotted them a mile off - customers never ask about parties, memberships and prices of toys in one visit!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Ok, might be being a bit dim here but JoJo are you saying that it would be ok to breed a carrier of PRA? I couldn't quite tell from you post? 

I agree that most breeders sell their puppies as pets but you have no say over what they do with those dogs once they walk away with them. For this reason alone I really feel that a carrier should not be bred from no matter how lovely the dog/bitch is. I think that the health tests are equally as important as the temperament of the dogs. 

I had only ever thought about it from my own perspective as a pet owner who doesn't ever plan on breeding, however the more I hear and read about people having 'accidental' matings etc I just think that responsible breeders have a duty to ensure that their puppies are as healthy as possible.

This is not aimed at anyone, so please no one take any offence!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I never take offence ... 

The lady up the road hasn't done her homework .... tut tut tut..Sarah do you know her well enough to explain about the health testing? 

A DNA carrier can bred with a DNA Clear and produce puppies which will be either Clear or Carrier ... 

As for accidental matings ... spay / neutering for pets ... so shouldn’t be happening 

DNA testing just lets you know what you are breeding and what the outcome will be ... 

What about BVA eye testing some rely on this for the prcd-PRA.. and this is not a clear indication of this form of PRA... BVA testing is excellent but it won’t detect a carrier or an affected dog until it is too late ...

My point is not about the result of the DNA tested dog .. more about all breeders should know what they are breeding prior to breeding.. ... not just health testing but the whole package ...

When on my puppy search I asked a breeder why was only the poodle DNA tested and the reply was “Cocker Spaniels do not suffer from PRA and don’t need any testing”.... 

I think I need to some more blogging on this subject, I do have posts on How to choose your breeding dogs and should I breed my cockapoo..... I am not a breeder as you know .. but maybe one day I will have a litter 

Right I need to go and watch some True Blood... then need to concentrate on my puppy announcement .. end of the week I think  xxx


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

JoJo said:


> I never take offence ...
> 
> The lady up the road hasn't done her homework .... tut tut tut..Sarah do you know her well enough to explain about the health testing?
> 
> ...


The thing that I don't understand, and again, not aimed at you or anyone else is that their seems to be an attitude that dogs sold for the pet market don't need the same amount of testing unless you are going to breed from them as they are 'just pets'. With the appropriate tests they will be healthy pets that hopefully will not cause their owners heartache later in their life by falling ill from a disease or hereditary condition that could have been avoided.

P.S never watched Trueblood, sounds like I am missing something good?!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh that was good  I love True Blood .. 

I understand where you are coming from ..


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I have to confess, I might have been temped to have a litter had I not been so well educated on here - now I wouldn't contemplate it, back to JD for me when the time is right


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I agree, when I mentioned to hubby that I would like another when Daisy is nearer two years old, he suggested that Daisy could have a litter and I was horrified! Nooooooo! Too many tests, finding a good stud that is also tested and is of good temperament, whelping boxes, puppy food, lack of sleep, risk to your beloved pet! Definitely not for me!


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh, I'm just petrified of the inspection from JoJo  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Just kidding JoJo


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

OMG I had forgotten about that! I can picture her now with her ILMC T shirt on (or the True Blood one?) and her clip board!  

I have been Ofsted inspected twice but being JoJo inspected!  :undwech: :laugh:

We are just teasing JoJo, I wont be breeding but you can still call round with your clip board for a cuppa! :hug:


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

We're not scared, JoJo's nice! Kettle's on girls...when are you coming?


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