# Cockapoo Club of the UK?



## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Have you started a club Fallon? I noticed your avatar has what seems to be a logo for a club, with "proud to be member". Are you going to give us information about it?


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm confused - is this a UK club or American? I just looked at the Cockapoo info page - membership fee is in US$ before £, height and weight are imperial not metric, spelling is American and it says that tails may be docked - isn't that illegal in the UK unless dogs are working?
Is the club aimed at breeders, what are the benefits for pet owners to join?


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## EG1 (May 14, 2011)

Hmm. Think they need to polish it a bit then before they send it 'live'. Spelling's very iffy.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

I see, I have looked through a bit more, it seems to be a "branch" of the American club. The email address in the contact section is in the US, do you know anyone in the UK who is involved with it?


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

its a copy and paste of the usa site.

what doest the fee go towards, and is it sent to the USA or kept in the UK?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't see anything about required health tests for parents or anything else which would impress me if I was looking for a puppy? It looks like a marketing tool to me?


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

2ndhandgal said:


> I don't see anything about required health tests for parents or anything else which would impress me if I was looking for a puppy? It looks like a marketing tool to me?


Hi all

I supplied some content on health testing although I am not directly involved in the website itself, but it sounds like a good idea to have info on parents health testing. xxx


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

what a negative attitude typically british ! why not give it a chance ?


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

but what does the money go towards, does it go in somones pocket or to a cause if so doest is go the the USA or stay in the UK.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

JoJo said:


> Hi all
> 
> I supplied some content on health testing although I am not directly involved in the website itself, but it sounds like a good idea to have info on parents health testing. xxx


Sorry JoJo - I did see your information and thought it was very helpful - but for a club to have real value to people buying pups I would expect there to be a requirement for parents to be health tested to some degree - otherwise it appears to me that it gives the appearance of having standards - whilst really achieving nothing.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

kendal , all things cost money to start up the club is offering registration for breeding dogs and the puppies enabling us to keep a data base so for future generations of cockapoos will be correct we want to eliminate bad breeders ? and puppy farms and pet shop dogs ? yes we want a code of ethics a list of 5 star breeders that people in the uk can go to and no they will be treated fairly please please give it a fair crack of the whip i have joined and wish to promote the well bred cockapoo but i to am still learning it may go flat on its face but please dont be negative a lot of effort has gone in to this club janice


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

quote:::Sorry JoJo - I did see your information and thought it was very helpful - but for a club to have real value to people buying pups I would expect there to be a requirement for parents to be health tested to some degree - otherwise it appears to me that it gives the appearance of having standards - whilst really achieving nothing. 

read the rules and regulations for health testing ? we can add to it this club is in its infant stages help us please work together janice


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Maybe I am missing something - I have read the code of ethics and see nothing there about any health tests:

_Breeders/Owners:
Will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange for appropriate veterinary attention if and when required.
Will agree without reservation that any veterinary surgeon performing an operation on any of their dogs which alters the natural conformation of the animal, or who carries out a caesarean section on a bitch, may report such operation to the uk Club.
Will agree that no healthy puppy will be culled. Puppies which may not conform to the Breed Standard should be placed in suitable homes. 
Will abide by all aspects of the Animal Welfare Act. Do not breed from a bitch every season and must be at least 18 months old and had two seasons.
Will not create demand for, nor supply, puppies that have been docked illegally.
Will agree not to breed from a dog or bitch which could be in any way harmful to the dog or to the breed.
Will not allow any of their dogs to roam at large or to cause a nuisance to neighbours or those carrying out official duties.
Will ensure that their dogs wear properly tagged collars and be microchiped and will be kept leashed or under effective control when away from home.
Will clean up after their dogs in public places or anywhere their dogs are being exhibited.
Will only sell dogs where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will help with the re-homing of a dog if the initial circumstances change.
Will supply written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home.
Will ensure that all relevant Kennel documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog, and will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available.
Will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retail pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind. Will not sell by sale or auction registration certificates as stand alone items (not accompanying a dog).
Will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs nor mislead any person regarding the health or quality of a dog.
Breach of these provisions may result in expulsion from club membership, and/or disciplinary action by the Uk Club and/or reporting to the relevant authorities for legal action, as appropriate._


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

2ndhandgal said:


> Sorry JoJo - I did see your information and thought it was very helpful - but for a club to have real value to people buying pups I would expect there to be a requirement for parents to be health tested to some degree - otherwise it appears to me that it gives the appearance of having standards - whilst really achieving nothing.



I undertstand your point, my article was all about health testing for breeding cockapoos, and as you know I have offered to do articles for anyone requiring info ... 

I think Shirley and Sarah were talking about doing a register too but not sure where they are with their plans. 

I am happy to support anything that supports good health testing. xxx


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

It looks good and I hope it does take off as we need something to promote good and safe breeding of cockapoos.

Just a couple of points though, I think it would have been a good idea to send e mails to breeders well before going live, as it looks a bit sparse with only one breeder on board. It seems a bit more consultation would have been a good thing in that department.

Also how and who is going to police and visit breeding establishments to ensure all of the conditions are adhered too?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

fallon said:


> I have sent a email saying we want it stated. requirement for parents to be health tested if we all help I think it could be great xx


Ok - apologies for being negative - having just had a browse round the web of different breeds codes of ethics it looks like most of them have been lifted straight from the Kennel Club code of ethics. The standard poodle club have some great looking codes of ethics which look like a better template.

http://standardpoodleclub.com/ethics.html
_
To ensure that both sire and dam are of a suitable temperament and type; currently have SA normal reports, are in sound health and construction; and seek to establish a mode of inheritance of diseases (testing wherever possible under the existing schemes) to preserve, safeguard and improve the characteristics of the breed.

To breed only with consideration for the breed’s welfare and not for commercial remuneration. 

To keep puppies in the precinct of their home environment, or securely protected until the age of eight weeks, or fully inoculated. 

To ensure all purchasers of puppies are fully aware of the characteristics of the Standard Poodle; paying special attention to grooming, clipping cost, exercise and feeding. And to never leave it on is own all day. 

Never to mate or breed from a bitch under the age of two years, or over eight years of age. Bitches to be limited to four litters in their breeding lifespan, with a rest of at least one season between matings. 

Not to breed a litter unless care and attention can be assured for the bitch’s welfare at all times, with proper facilities for health and security for both bitch and puppies. (A person with a full time occupation is not in a suitable position to breed).

STUD DOG OWNERS - With respect to the use of, Stud Dog owning Members of the Standard Poodle Club agree:

To be stringent in the assessment of the suitability of their dog to produce puppies of good temperament which will be a credit to the breed in type, health and soundness. 
To test the stud dogs, wherever possible, for hereditary disease under existing schemes. 
To ensure that the bitch is sound, healthy and is tested, wherever possible, under existing schemes for hereditary disease, and is of the appropriate pedigree or quality to produce a desirable litter. 
To ensure the owner of the bitch is aware of the responsibility of producing a litter as stated under BREEDING in this Code of Ethics. 
To establish the breeders reliability in choosing suitable homes for puppies. Special thought must be taken before agreeing to service a bitch from a pet home. 
To retain some responsibility for resulting puppies that may need to be re-housed in their adult life._


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## Rufini (Sep 9, 2011)

romeo said:


> what a negative attitude typically british ! why not give it a chance ?


I wouldn't say typically British - it's just people being careful! 

As I'm not a breeder and at this time not concidering being one I didn't really look at the site in detail. The principle is a great idea ensuring that breeders can be credited in a grouped database.
Although I am with Kendal to an extent - A UK sole site would be better for the UK.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Please can we make it clear that 'The Cockapoo Club of Great Britiain' is not connected or affiliated in any way to the Anglo-American 'Cockapoo Club of the UK'.

Julia and Stephen xx


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jukee Doodles said:


> Please can we make it clear that 'The Cockapoo Club of Great Britiain' is not connected or affiliated in any way to the Anglo-American 'Cockapoo Club of the UK'.
> 
> Julia and Stephen xx


What's the URL for 'The Cockapoo Club of Great Britain'?


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

embee said:


> What's the URL for 'The Cockapoo Club of Great Britain'?


The Cockapoo Club of GB's website is not live yet but we will be showing the work in progress on a blogspot URL to quite a number of contributors for their input. Mandy, I will gladly pm you that blogspot URL if you wish to give some ideas. It is to be tailored to the specific requirements of the UK Cockapoo enthusiasts, owners and breeders. 
J xx


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Jukee Doodles said:


> The Cockapoo Club of GB's website is not live yet but we will be showing the work in progress on a blogspot URL to quite a number of contributors for their input. Mandy, I will gladly pm you that blogspot URL if you wish to give some ideas. It is to be tailored to the specific requirements of the UK Cockapoo enthusiasts, owners and breeders.
> J xx


PM the URL - would happily contribute


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

I would be willing to contribute too ... if you would like me too ..


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

embee said:


> PM the URL - would happily contribute





JoJo said:


> I would be willing to contribute too ... if you would like me too ..


We would value both your input. I will pm you details next week so that you can see the base draft and we can custom build a UK club. J xx


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok great .. look forward to it...


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for that JD, my mistake in the thread title - I was doing it on my phone and it's not easy to go back 
I am very interested in seeing how the CCGB progresses - I read back through your previous thread earlier


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

JoJo said:


> I undertstand your point, my article was all about health testing for breeding cockapoos, and as you know I have offered to do articles for anyone requiring info ...
> 
> I think Shirley and Sarah were talking about doing a register too but not sure where they are with their plans.
> 
> I am happy to support anything that supports good health testing. xxx


 We put the register on hold for the time being and was working on something else- well I have been glued to my computer typing up stuff for the last few days and thinking ( my brain is burning) but it's all gone a bit pete tong at mo so who knows


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

So we now have two different clubs?? I am a bit 

Jandaz = cockapoo club of the uk.
Jukee doodles =cockapoo club of Great Britain.


Who is involved to ensure both of these clubs become a credible source of independant info for prospective owners and not a marketing tool for selling puppies?
No offence intended to either breeder involved but would just like to know who are the other parties involved.
Also who and how are the rules and terms of the breeding practice and establishments going to be policed and inspected?


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2011)

excuse me i did not start the cockapoo club of uk i have joined it !! yes and helped along the way i do not wish to be in opposition to a gb club it isnt a competition ? OR IS IT ? i seriously doubt the validity of some on here thats why i dont take part much !!


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

You are right it's certainly not a competition.

It's a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to make their own choices.

Stephen x


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## Lilies (Sep 14, 2011)

What do u mean by the last sentence please Janice


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## Emma (Apr 29, 2011)

Jukee doodles, have u read the thread by rlister? Apparently that bad breeder is advertising that he is a member of Cockapoo club of gb! For both Uk and gb club I suppose this is where the probs could arise, regulating who is included and claims made by people who are misusing the names of the clubs. Emma x


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

romeo said:


> excuse me i did not start the cockapoo club of uk i have joined it !! yes and helped along the way i do not wish to be in opposition to a gb club it isnt a competition ? OR IS IT ? i seriously doubt the validity of some on here thats why i dont take part much !!


Janice no one has said you have started the club. You are the only breeder on cockapoo of the uk,which your daughter Sarah seems to be at the helm of, that may change in time but at the moment that is how it is. That is why I said it would have been a good idea to get more breeders on board before going live. 

There is also no mention of who is who on the web site, normally in the "About us" section. No names, faces, experience etc. Just an email of someone in USA.

Now another breeder is talking of setting up another club. The timing seems seems a bit coincidental. Like you said its not a competition.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

It appears to me as an ignorant outsider  that the two clubs have a completely different purpose. One is to register breeders, which I feel is useful only if checks are being made on them to ensure that they are actually complying with the codes. Otherwise it is just a register of anyone who has paid their money and wants the kudos of saying they are a member! The other club, which JD are involved in, from what I have gathered at this early stage, will be more of a members' club with lots of info, features etc. rather than just a breeders' register. So I don't really see a conflict and everyone is free to participate or not in either one as they prefer.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

It would be nice to have just one cockapoo club with everyone involved but it looks like there will be two a UK and GB.

I will continue to support everything cockapoo, and I happy to help both clubs in anyway I can, not directly involved but I am happy to do articles and share my experience with others. 

We (owners & breeders) all just love cockapoos and what to do the best for the breed .. maybe working as one would be a good idea, or merge the clubs :S just an idea .. 

Just keep up the good work and do the best for the breed


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Emma said:


> Jukee doodles, have u read the thread by rlister? Apparently that bad breeder is advertising that he is a member of Cockapoo club of gb! For both Uk and gb club I suppose this is where the probs could arise, regulating who is included and claims made by people who are misusing the names of the clubs. Emma x


Yes we have seen the ads and the thread. This guy, Mike I think it is has been around for a few years and advertises periodically. If anyone has any serious allegations then they should notify his local authority who will investigate. As for his club it has no website or contact information. I think we can deal with one individual case appropriately as and when we need to. We own several variations of our domain name and in today's world that is a key factor. J x


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Don't give up .. you have only just started ... 

The whole idea of a cockapoo club is to support the breed. 

Stick with it ... it has taken you hard work and effort to set it up .... everyone can see that


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Sarah I am sorry you feel like that but you must expect people to have questions about the club. People will have lots of questions about both clubs not just the uk one. As in who the people are behind it and their experiences and expertise in the dog world.
That is all. If you hadn't been as involved in the set up yourself and someone else had created the club then I am sure you would have many questions too?
Its only natural people want to know what they are joining and where any money is used. 
Who do people go to to ask the questions, the contact in the USA??


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi, I don't know if any one is still interested but I have received an e mail from the administrators of CCUK, outlining the purpose of the club. It has cleared up a few points for me and defined what the club is trying to do, so if any one wants to know the answers to any of the questions they have asked in this thread, I am happy to forward a copy of the email. Just pm me e mail address'


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

wellerfeller said:


> Hi, I don't know if any one is still interested but I have received an e mail from the administrators of CCUK, outlining the purpose of the club. It has cleared up a few points for me and defined what the club is trying to do, so if any one wants to know the answers to any of the questions they have asked in this thread, I am happy to forward a copy of the email. Just pm me e mail address'


Karen can't you just copy their email onto here? ( removing your address of course)


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I will try Shirley...............


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

*E mail from ACC.*

Hi, Karen. Thank you for your questions about the new Cockapoo Club of the UK. The American Cockapoo Club has provided certificates of registration to some Cockapoo breeders in the UK, and was approached by some breeders to extend the club. Here are answers to your questions. 



The administrators of the club and the club website are the administrators of the American Cockapoo Club in the US. Our family have been involved in breeding Cockapoos for several years, and as a database web programmer, I was able to create an online administration system to maintain records and make the breeder actions immediately active in the database.. We are working with Janice of Jandaz Kennels and her daughter, Sarah. They have been instrumental in helping us understand restrictions and standards that are applicable in the UK.



Money that is paid by breeders goes to maintain the website, its hosting, and continued development. It has been our experience from the American Cockapoo Club that the actual hours of programming time, certificate preparation, and mailing is not quite covered by the fees. Since there are fewer breeders in the UK, this will most likely be the case even more with the CCUK. We feel, though, that eventually we can bring breeders in the UK in contact with breeders in the US and be able to share information. We have established an online forum that is private to the ACC breeders that we plan to open to the UK breeders once we get approval from the ACC members.



The code of ethics is enforced by honesty. We have found with the ACC that puppy buyers do not hesitate to contact us when there are issues with a breeder. We have terminated membership of breeders who have not kept our standards after they have agreed to do so.



There is only one breeder right now because the site just went live last week. Jandaz was entered for testing and troubleshooting purposes, so she was the first one to be included.



Whenever there have been differences in standards or practices between the US and the UK, we have always adopted the UK standards. It is a UK club. We are maintaining the database and records in the US, but it is a breeders club, and breeders help set the standards and practices.



At this time, we have not elected to make health tests mandatory. It is strongly encouraged and gives a breeder an advantage in advertising, but we did not make it a condition of membership. This could change if there is a consensus among breeders who have joined, or are interested in joining.



The club is only for Cockapoo breeders. Owners can register their puppy and receive a nice certificate of registration. We have a Facebook page for Cockapoo owners that is sponsored by the ACC, and we could do the same think for the UK to give Cockapoo owners a place to share photos, ask questions, and share opinions.



The primary purpose of the Cockapoo Club of the UK is to promote a breed standard and provide a breeding registry.



Thank you.

Dave Zarro


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## Lilies (Sep 14, 2011)

Would love to know their criteria for who they approve... or can any breeder join?

Karen can you let me know the Email address for this Dave please


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

I want to know more about how the breed registry works.

So a litter is born to parents A and B and each pup give a separate reg no??

what info is recorded about parents?
What info is recorded about grandparents and GGparents etc.........?

Can owners view the registry to check their dogs ancestry?

Now Parent A has mated with parent C

So that litter has a reg no each.

Will it be clear that Parent A has sired two litters from different studs?

Will for example any recording be done on other litters produced. For example the poodle stud is also used to produce other poodle crosses or poodles? or will the only information on the registry about that poodle will be any cockapoos produced?

Will the health tests and results of the dogs used for breeding be made available ? or will this as I suspect only be open to members who are breeders?

Will breeders who do not health test be allowed to join?

Will breeders who health test but whose dogs have had carrier status results of affected status be allowed to be members?

They say it is to promote a breed standard- but didn't see this on there did I miss it?- what criteria is used to define a breed standard for a cross and by whom?


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

I think it's a shame that membership to this club does not include mandatory health checks. This has got to be be one of the most important criteria when choosing a breeder!

If ANY club just permits breeders to join for a fee and doesn't have a proper way to VALIDATE the breeders claims (other than customer complaints) then how could the buyer trust the club recommendations?

I think a club for accredited breeders is a good idea but only if the breeders are checked and validated by an independent governing body and if health checks are a mandatory part of the membership requirements.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

That's very informative Karen -Thanks.

It does not sound very "Club" to me - more like a "Breeders' Register" - so I don't think there will be much conflict with what we are working on. On a personal note - I'd prefer a GB / UK Club to be UK based; administered and driven. 

I'd be interested to know what other breeders other than Janice contacted the ACC too.

Again - I strongly feel Cockapoos cannot have a "Breed Standard" inflicted on them - as there are so many variables and it would / could also promote the dreaded "in-breeding" to iron out anything that tumbles off centre - a little too KC for my liking !!!!

A Breeder Code of Ethics is a must - and we would hope that the public would police that and report anything untoward back to a Club.

At this point of the development of Cockapoos in this Country - I would suggest that certain Health Tests should become mandatory to gain registration.

Stephen xxxx


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok have just emailed my questions to them ( previous page) and if anyone is interested will let you know their reply


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> That's very informative Karen -Thanks.
> 
> It does not sound very "Club" to me - more like a "Breeders' Register" - so I don't think there will be much conflict with what we are working on. On a personal note - I'd prefer a GB / UK Club to be UK based; administered and driven.
> 
> ...


Absolutely!!! it is one of my pet hates. Whilst health and conformation are paramount IMO aesthetics is not.

To me the reason why I love crosses and mongrels is their variety and uniqueness. If a dog has one ear a bit longer than the other and one eye blue and one brown then I love them even more. 

I am such a big softie


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Nothing to add, agree with Shirley and JD!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

http://www.crossbreed-and-mongrel-club.org.uk/


could give this one a go!!!

There are some lovely pics of poodle crosses in the gallery!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Lilies said:


> Would love to know their criteria for who they approve... or can any breeder join?
> 
> Karen can you let me know the Email address for this Dave please


It sounds to me like any breeder can join and providing there are no complaints about conditions or their practises then, any breeder can be a member of the club.

The email is the linda contact on the actual contact page of ccuk, although the reply obviously came from Dave.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Also why would a breeder who health tests want to be alongside someone who doesn't? what message is that giving out 


If I was a breeder doing health tests and had excellent breeding practices I would be very miffed to pay money to a club to find another breeder who doesn't be a member too!!!!!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> Also why would a breeder who health tests want to be alongside someone who doesn't? what message is that giving out
> 
> 
> If I was a breeder doing health tests and had excellent breeding practices I would be very miffed to pay money to a club to find another breeder who doesn't be a member too!!!!!


I know what you mean Shirley and looking at the ACC web site, which I find confusing, it seems that one star breeders have to submit CERF certificates annually for the breeding dogs. This seems to be the minimum test to get a one star rating and the better and more extensive the health testing a breeder chooses to do, the higher their star rating.
So why is this not the minimum required here?
The ACC members also sign up to be visited unannounced by the ACC to ensure the code of ethics is followed.

So it seems that if a dubious puppy breeder wanted to become a member, they just pay the fee and they are away. Their word is taken that the establishment is fit for purpose and breeding stock fit and healthy. No certificates are required to prove testing and no one will be checking on any aspect of the breeders set up.
Members of the public will assume that a breeder who is a member of the club will be a good one and the only way a bad breeder will be found out is when the complaints pile up. Bit like a certain Mr Malloy, that we have been talking about over past couple of days. There is nothing to stop bad breeders using this club to authenticate themselves dishonestly.


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Quote

Bit like a certain Mr Malloy, that we have been talking about over past couple of days. There is nothing to stop bad breeders using this club to authenticate themselves dishonestly. 

Unquote..

My thoughts exactly....


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> I want to know more about how the breed registry works.
> 
> So a litter is born to parents A and B and each pup give a separate reg no??
> 
> ...


What great questions......thank you it's helped me work some conundrums out in my head...working on a solution now. J xx


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

wellerfeller said:


> The ACC members also sign up to be visited unannounced by the ACC to ensure the code of ethics is followed.


I like that idea. J x


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## Pepster (Jul 22, 2011)

I for one wouldn't like a 'breed standard' as what drew me to Cockapoos in the first place was their variations. I didn't want a puppy that was identical to others, I love their individual, non groomed appearance.
Also, as Joe Bloggs, woman on the street, novice, the confirmed health checks were a vital component in my search for a breeder.


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## Lilies (Sep 14, 2011)

I always thought a cockapoo was a spaniel mum and poodle dad. I was questioning Dave of ccuk and he said in the US they are bred either way round.... what do people think about this?


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## EG1 (May 14, 2011)

Don't think it makes a lot of difference in the end result - Rupert has a poodle mum. It may be that the litters tend to be smaller in number? x


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2011)

doesnt matter which way round it is in fact i prefer poodle mums


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## EG1 (May 14, 2011)

romeo said:


> doesnt matter which way round it is in fact i prefer poodle mums


Really? That's interesting - why's that?


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Lilies said:


> I always thought a cockapoo was a spaniel mum and poodle dad. I was questioning Dave of ccuk and he said in the US they are bred either way round.... what do people think about this?


Hi Nikki .. I believe either way around is acceptable when breeding F1 cockapoos .. I have seen a few with Poodle mums xxx


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## Lilies (Sep 14, 2011)

Wonder what if any differences you get, size etc?
They're all scrummy dogs


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Just to let you know that I still haven't had a reply yet to my list of questions as I know some of you have asked.

But will post on here if and when I do.


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## Mogdog (Feb 6, 2011)

Pepster said:


> I for one wouldn't like a 'breed standard' as what drew me to Cockapoos in the first place was their variations. I didn't want a puppy that was identical to others, I love their individual, non groomed appearance.
> Also, as Joe Bloggs, woman on the street, novice, the confirmed health checks were a vital component in my search for a breeder.


I agree. Doesn't make sense to have a breed standard for a cross breed ... there are so many variations, as we have seen on our meets ... and all of them are acceptable (and lovable!).


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2011)

sarah me thinks you should give up seems like you are flogging a dead horse


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2011)

Agree Sarah standards are a good guide x


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

fallon said:


> Also good breeders would not put a badly constructed poodle to a badly constructed spaniel. As we read breed standards to guide and help us. As I said a breed standard is a guide!


 I agree breed standards are a guide to be used for those wishing to work towards breeding dogs that fit a standard which are usually purebreeds.

Standards are put together looking at dogs as a whole both in conformation, health and aesthetics and are also based on a dogs "function"

Therefore when selecting you breeding dogs you have both the poodle standards and cocker standards available to you to refer to if you so wish.

However a breed standard for a dog that is not a breed is confusing. As cockapoos do not breed true then there would be many variables to the standards which probably make it somewhat invalid as a tool.


I couldn't see the "standards" on the UK club site- but when I looked before at the standards on the American one, I saw that with coats no mention of curly coats was mentioned.

As an owner of a curly coated cockapoo, I thought this was wrong and once again shows how aesthetics can be wrong in defining what features a dog should have.

However I like the breed registry aspect of this club to succeed if run properly and with lots of breeders support as that is something both I and Sarah have been wanting to see come about.

However I have some issues as per my questions ( maybe more to come to) which I emailed over to Dave and am still waiting for a reply.


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Still no answers from Dave to the questions I emailed on the 26th Oct!!!


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## Rufini (Sep 9, 2011)

I agree to an extent that having some sort of standard is good as a guide to assist with knowing what a breeding pair will produce, however with many crossbreeding the resulting pups are hugely variable - Vincent is very curly, however I met one of his littermates who was wavey - same litter but different appearance. In addition his dad had a litter with another cocker spaniel (so his half siblings) and they were mainly fluffy, apricot and were smaller size than Vincents litter! So unless you can truely cover all of the variability (how long is a piece of string) I think it might not work in the way intended.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

For any club to work it needs full support and membership from all uk cockapoo breeders to join .. will the clubs UK or GB get this type of support? 

Club take much effort and time to constuct for all involved ...


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

fallon said:


> Emails have gone out to breeders via dave x


For reference: We saw no e-mail !!!

Stephen x


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

I am asking this as I am not as versed about breeding....but isn't one of the great things about our Cockapoos that they are generally healthier due to their mix, and if you begin to breed multi-generationally then will you not eventually end up with issues?

In Canada Cockapoos have been around for a very very long time...and for the most part....f2 is as far as people go....as here most people do go for f1's


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

lady amanda said:


> I am asking this as I am not as versed about breeding....but isn't one of the great things about our Cockapoos that they are generally healthier due to their mix, and if you begin to breed multi-generationally then will you not eventually end up with issues?
> 
> In Canada Cockapoos have been around for a very very long time...and for the most part....f2 is as far as people go....as here most people do go for f1's


my little merle girl from america is an f4 absolutely gorgeous,no health issues,one of my clients cockapoos is an f1 and has a luxating patells( knee problem) and has already under gone operations for this,i also know of f1 cockapoos with pra,one being my friends cockapoo so it seems that any generation can get the health issues that come from the poodle and the cocker x


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

lady amanda said:


> I am asking this as I am not as versed about breeding....but isn't one of the great things about our Cockapoos that they are generally healthier due to their mix, and if you begin to breed multi-generationally then will you not eventually end up with issues?
> 
> In Canada Cockapoos have been around for a very very long time...and for the most part....f2 is as far as people go....as here most people do go for f1's


That's really interesting. I wonder if the same will happen here and the preference stays in the early generations. J x


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

When I was looking for my first dog, Flo, I was looking for a cross between and cocker and a poodle and she just happened to come with the cockapoo label, if you know what I mean. I think if I was looking for a 'breed' I would probably have ended up with a Portuguese Water Dog or Wheaten


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## Mogdog (Feb 6, 2011)

embee said:


> When I was looking for my first dog, Flo, I was looking for a cross between and cocker and a poodle and she just happened to come with the cockapoo label, if you know what I mean. I think if I was looking for a 'breed' I would probably have ended up with a Portuguese Water Dog or Wheaten


I particularly like the Wheatens too and the mini Australian Labradoodles. Does your family have allergies?... both the breeds you mentioned are great for that. Or maybe you just like shaggy dogs!

When we were first looking I researched all the poodle crosses ... and just happened to favour the cocker/poodle cross.


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## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Mogdog said:


> I particularly like the Wheatens too and the mini Australian Labradoodles. Does your family have allergies?... both the breeds you mentioned are great for that. Or maybe you just like shaggy dogs!
> 
> When we were first looking I researched all the poodle crosses ... and just happened to favour the cocker/poodle cross.


No allergies but just can't deal with moulting dogs. A wheaten would probably have been a bit too big for me. The water dog is very like a cockapoo to look at apart from it's odd tail. We also had a Spanish Water Dog at agility that looked exactly like a cockapoo when clipped quite short but I think they are very hard to come by (Some lovely pics of them on Google Images)


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I very nearly went for a SCW terrier. They look fabulous but decided it was a Cockapoo for me! I would love to meet one though as it is a breed I haven't met in person yet!


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sezra said:


> I very nearly went for a SCW terrier. They look fabulous but decided it was a Cockapoo for me! I would love to meet one though as it is a breed I haven't met in person yet!


I have one near me that have met a few times but sadly not lately. Think he was called Teddy or Eddie, he was expensive think the bloke said he was £1k. Very cute though and sweet natured.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> I have one near me that have met a few times but sadly not lately. Think he was called Teddy or Eddie, he was expensive think the bloke said he was £1k. Very cute though and sweet natured.


Yes, they are even more expensive than Cockapoos!  But very carefully bred and their club has a good network of breeders and representives that you can go and visit to see if they are the dog for you. 

I might still consider them one day (next dog will be another Cockapoo though), not that I don't love Cockapoos but variety is the spice of life!


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Sezra said:


> Yes, they are even more expensive than Cockapoos!  But very carefully bred and their club has a good network of breeders and representives that you can go and visit to see if they are the dog for you.
> 
> I might still consider them one day (next dog will be another Cockapoo though), not that I don't love Cockapoos but variety is the spice of life!


 Moogie said she is very miffed Aunty Sarah that you didn't even consider getting a Cavapoo


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> Moogie said she is very miffed Aunty Sarah that you didn't even consider getting a Cavapoo


Oh apologies to Moogie, please tell her not to take offense, she is very beautiful!  x


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