# Ouch



## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

So as you know the lovely clever Lola has had more than her fair share of " issues" 
Maybe it's due to being a " teenager" at the moment but 
Ouch!! Last night she wanted to start eating a plant ( never before has she bothered) 
So I did the standard 
Uh uh Lola leave.. Head went down and the growl started.... So carried on with the warning and then stepping in front of the plant and saying 
" Lola, leave...mine!" With that .. Bosh ! 







It's actually gone down a lot now , but 
.... 


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Ouch indeed, Lola!!
Are you scared of Lola? And what she might do??


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Oh no! That's awful but just from reading your post, I have to say that does feel like quite a confrontational approach to take with a dog that has known guarding issues - can you see it from Lola's point of view? She was already feeling stressed and insecure but then you ramped it up and forced a reaction - she was giving out very clear signals which you didn't read, so she then felt cornered and as a last resort became defensive. Read your post again and play it back in your mind - can you see what you might have done differently to diffuse rather than push the issue? I'm sorry if this sounds harsh and I understand your frustration but the experienced posters from ILMC on your other threads have suggested several times to stay away from direct confrontation and stick to distraction and swaps until your one to one appointment - personally I think I'd be doing just that, sod the plant!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

I don't care about the plant 
I was more concerned about her having any effect from it! 
All this was said with calmness we never ever shout 
Just claim! 
There wasn't anything else to do? 
I had chicken in my hand ... No response 
Fave toy 
Nothing 
Merely the " uh uh Lola" was enough this time ! Sometimes it takes a whole lot more but not last night 
I couldn't even get to the plant to remove it as she had already gone for my ankles! 
Please understand it's not the plant!! 
It's a crappy spider plant that I can grow a million times over 
I was worried it would make her sick 
This is my main worry 
What happens when if she does find something very dangerous, as in on a walk , berries? Or anything? I'm not about to let her get sick 
I'd rather she ripped my hand off if that's the case! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

And we have stayed away from confrontation 
She has lately been allowed to carry on and eat a sock, or whatever so as to avoid 
this! Prior to plant last night she was playing with a moth!!! 
It happened within seconds 
Puppy fun to that! No in between so wasn't stressed prior ! 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Ouch indeed.  Never one to steer clear of controversy here I will just tell it like I see it. You need to rehome her and you need to do it while she is still young. She needs to be with a professional who can safely work on her issues with her. That could have been much worse, what if she does that with a small child?


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Really? We have a " magic man" coming on the 19th July! I know about the small child thing
Please understand she's not like this 24/7 
And I don't want to give up on her the poor thing right now she is playing as sweet as anything and doing exactly what she's told ! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Tinman 
I'm not scared of her , not now sometimes she will growl and I'll just pick her up and say Lola shhhh silly girl and she then kisses me!!! 



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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

OK - what you have written with my reading of it...

You saw her doing something you did not want her to be doing

Uh uh Lola leave.. You went straight for confrontation - whether you like it or not - you do not have to shout to confront and this is confrontation

Head went down and the growl started.... she told you clearly she was not happy with what you were doing, the head going down is one level, growling another level up

So carried on with the warning and then stepping in front of the plant and saying " Lola, leave...mine!" You totally ignored her unhappyness and raised your level of confrontation both with your body language stepping in and verbally 

With that .. Bosh ! - she had tried to tell you but felt she had no choice


There are lots of different ways of avoiding this, when you first saw her nibbling you could have grabbed a squeaky toy, tried a tuggy toy to get her to play, called her to you, gone to the kitchen and rattled her bowl, grabbed her lead for a walk - loads of ways - you need to be imaginative

Right now she needs to be learning to trust you and she does not when it matters and she is telling you that and each time you have a confrontation she loses a little more trust and you are making things worse as she feels she needs to increase her level of warnings.

Has she learned leave as an exercise outside of guarding things? Can she do this happily confident she will get a good reward? 

This is resolvable if you are prepared to change your approach and avoid confrontation totally - picking her up when she is growling will not be helping - this is not a matter of whether you are scared it is a matter of her feeling she can trust you and you will listen to her.


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

I'm sorry you got bit and I hope it heals up ok. I can totally see your way of thinking. You were terrified of her eating a potentially toxic plant and did exactly what I would have done. That is get her away from it as fast as you can. In situations like that you don't have time to think things through completely and rummage through the fridge for something really tasty or going into another room to find a favorite toy. I really hope the trainer will be able to sort her out and you and your family can live worry free with your lovely girl.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Sorry I forgot that the pro is coming soon. I'm glad that you want to stick with her in spite of your injury too. I wish 2nd and Molly lived close to you so she could how you how she did it. And I guess as long as you are careful with her near children there is still hope. I'll keep every finger and toe crossed for you and her.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Ok I am going to be totally blunt - the biggest threat to this dog right now is ending up put to sleep due to behaviour. Pushing her so far she felt she had to bite now means probably 90% of dogs homes will now not touch her if it comes to re homing and although there are people who will take dogs who have bitten these are few and far between.

Confronting her needs to be something totally avoided for now otherwise this is going to cost this lovely pup her life exactly as it has done for many pups before and I am sure will continue to do in the future.

Sorry if this offends but this was entirely predictable as is this pups outcome unless things change drastically


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

She will not be put to sleep!!! 
Her head dropped and growl started before I'd gone to her 
She thinks she's the boss here the pack leader and she isn't! 
Unless someone comes and picks her up to take her life it's def not going to be happening if I have anything to do with it!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

I do sometimes regret posting on here 


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Lola'sGrammy said:


> She will not be put to sleep!!!
> Her head dropped and growl started before I'd gone to her
> She thinks she's the boss here the pack leader and she isn't!
> Unless someone comes and picks her up to take her life it's def not going to be happening if I have anything to do with it!
> ...


I know you don't like what I say but please believe me this is not about her thinking she is the boss or pack leader  

Read your initial post - she responded to you telling her no - she did not choose this battle - you did 

I will clear off now and post no more but please please please do not confront her over anything


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## Woo (Oct 5, 2011)

I haven't posted on here for ages but do still look through the posts sometimes. That said maybe I am missing something regarding this one.
Why is everyone telling this owner that she shouldn't tell her dog "No" it's probobly one of the first words I taught Noodle in order to keep her safe from harm. 
Poor women has been bitten and she is getting told off on here!


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

2nd do keep posting because you are the only person who is actually speaking from first hand experience and totally understands the psychology and body language behind the behaviour.
Lola'sGrammy, you are brave to be honest, please don't give up - but do really take notice of advice that is given. Nobody doubts your love for Lola and we all want things to work out well, but we are all also scared that for Lola not getting things right could result in her being PTS and I appreciate that would be heart breaking for you, but you would get the choice to carry on trying with another dog, Lola would just be dead.
I have lived alongside a whole host of dogs and I have never had issues with resource guarding. My Dad had strict rules about how dogs should be respected and frankly picking up a GSD or a GR wasn't really an option once they were more than a few months old. For my own children, eldest now nearly 22 - I constantly remind them - don't chase the dog, don't grab the dog, don't tease the dog, do not pick up the dog - it is a dog not a doll. A pup is not a problem, once a behaviour that is a problem has become established it is more difficult to re train a different response, but it is possible.
If you respect your dog it will respect you - it knows you to be trustworthy so it trusts you. If it trusts you it will look to you for guidance in all situations and will want to please you.
Dogs are amazingly forgiving, we all get it wrong sometimes. 
The idea of needing to be a 'pack leader' is erroneous - having lived with large numbers of dogs I acknowledge that some breeds to have a sort of obvious hierarchy - our GSDs definitely did, however the alpha male did not throw his weight around and pick on lesser dogs - it was all very subtle and fights were exceptionally rare - a turn of the head, a change in ear position or tail position was generally enough. Gunner was not the top dog because he had fought and beaten all the other dogs - much more because he did not need to fight, the others respected his being. Interestingly the GRs did not have an obvious hierarchy among themselves - they were a happy haphazard pile of a pack. In my opinion cockapoos are much more like GRs than GSDs they have the same happy approach to live - live and let live and keep on wagging!


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Sorry Marzi, but you said 'don't grab the dog'. Lets pretend Maggie had the same problem as Lola. If I saw her eating a potentially toxic plant, I would be grabbing her even if it meant a potential bite to me.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok 
Thankyou all for every comment 
Firstly as soon as I joined this forum I have taken on board all advice! 
Ok so it's my first cockapoo but I've had dogs in the past and always used the firm but fair attitude and it always worked. Lola is my daughters dog and said from the off that no way would Lola be shouted at smacked etc .. So I joined here . I have always tried whatever was suggested 
When she went to chew on the plant I said uh uh .. Said not shouted! That's when she instantly knew it was something she shouldn't do... Then as I approached her the head was down and the growl began 
I'm sorry but I've read about poisonous plants and what to look out for. I did have a huge rhubarb in the garden but I've had it dug up. I know that potentially plants can make Lola very ill so yes I did confront her ., I would do it again now if I had to. I posted the pic and the story 
I didn't ask what I was doing wrong . This dog isn't nasty!!! She may well have been spoilt when she first came to live with us, but that soon got nipped in the bud . She is very clever perfectly house trained, a joy to take out on a walk etc etc. she was the only pup in the litter. I doubt that has much to do with it but it may do . This puppy shadows me. She waits when is told to wait . The only time there is a problem is when she knows full well she is about to do something that's not allowed. This is no exaggeration either. My ex partner has 3 kangal dogs, Alfie the original puppy was with us just before we split 
He is huge now as they all are yet not once did he or the other two ever EVER have any kind of issue regarding biting 
I would have lost my arm if that was the case. We were firm but fair and all three dogs worship him! The youngest one is just a year old and although they are meant to be guard dogs where he lives, once in will sooner have cuddles than anything else. 
I'm not a professional but I'm also not a complete novice or idiot. If I have to have the odd bite or two then so be it , I'd rather that than poison Lola!!! 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

And second hand 
It wasn't a battle ?? I wasn't going to allow it 
End of! No battle 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Alfie ... ️


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Woo said:


> I haven't posted on here for ages but do still look through the posts sometimes. That said maybe I am missing something regarding this one.
> Why is everyone telling this owner that she shouldn't tell her dog "No" it's probobly one of the first words I taught Noodle in order to keep her safe from harm.
> Poor women has been bitten and she is getting told off on here!


I see your point but yes there are some previous threads to this where people got very involved trying to help with resource guarding issues, one was called 'Could be the end' so there is a bit of background. Saying 'no' or whatever to a well balanced dog is obviously fine (although Poppy refuses to acknowledge it as a concept ) but I think the idea here was to try and avoid any further confrontation for Lola and use swap/distraction etc for a few weeks until an appointment with a professional. But things have unfortunately escalated which could be bad news.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

I used to have two Anatolians, basically the same as Kangals but I believe there has been a recent split between the two! Lovely loyal dogs! In essence Lola should be easy to handle compared to the Giants but this is exactly were presence over rules size!! You're right she does immediately know when this is going to happen, you probably wouldn't even have to say a word, she is reading the change in mood and body language. I agree with Dawn here, when she gets something she shouldn't have you need to distract, lead, ball, toy anything. She is laying with her prize just waiting for you to come and take it, so surprise her. React in a totally different way. It will snap her out of it and get her thinking about something else. She needs to be handled with kid gloves until Ken can get to you, just to prevent anyone getting hurt, I know this was probably an exception as it could have been dangerous for her so hopefully there will be no more incidents between now and 19th. I agree the little madam has been spoilt and as a very smart cross breed with a tendency to guard it has taken no time at all to end up in this situation.
Hang in there, help is on its way and I guarantee having someone there actually showing, explaining and advising you in person will make the world of difference.
X


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

We do the swapping thing and yes that works 
It doesn't stop her snarling and trying to bite but yes she will swap. However this , as I saw it, was a potential danger to her . Not sure how I magic up a treat in the split second it all could become far much worse than me being bitten 


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

I have to add that calling in a pro is costing my daughter £399 so trust me when I say we are on the case!!! 
She's only just turned 19 and wants the best, as we all do, for Lola who is only 6 months old!!! 
We aren't writing her off but I feel like some of you are 


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## Boo Cable (Mar 24, 2015)

I really feel for you Zoe and hope that your "magic man" can sort things out for Lola, you and your daughter.

I don't believe it is fair for people who have not met you or Lola to make comments regarding re-homing and worse. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that and I know people are only trying to help.

Good luck.


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm sure everyone means well and they do want what's best for your family and Lola,
All the posts are from people's personal opinions, advice and experiences, please don't take any of them in a negative way.
I think it's great that your not giving up on Lola and your investing further money and time in expert training, I hope it all goes well on the 19th, as I'm sure all the forum members do.
I was keeping out of this one, I feel it's getting a bit heated!
So I'm trying to be the diplomat 
Xx


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

Agree with Tracey on this one. Time for everyone to take time out and have a glass of wine. 

Zoe, please keep us informed as to what happens with the expensive pro, and I hope he is worth his weight in gold. 

I will just add this. These cocker poodle crosses are smart and stubborn. It's been my experience that being 'firm' with them usually begets the reaction you don't want. Much better to be totally laid back and calm. Go sit in a corner and ignore them, focus intently on something else and they can't resist dropping whatever they were interested in to come over and join in. Little devils!


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Roll on the 19th July!! I can confirm this man is worth his weight in gold! Try not to take people's concerns too much to heart Zoe, it's all coming from a good place with good intentions. Hang in there, stock up on wine and do lots of counting to ten. Focus on her good, sweet side and try to keep the snappy side under wraps if possible. Chill out Lola!!!


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

See?? Just precious !!


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

Simply gorgeous! X
Little Madame


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Tracey you have managed to add a touch of humour into this thread with your "diplomatic" comment...I am trying to reconcile that with your terrorist costume last Halloween.

Little Lola please be good from now on, for all of our sakes.


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## Tinman (Apr 23, 2013)

fairlie said:


> Tracey you have managed to add a touch of humour into this thread with your "diplomatic" comment...I am trying to reconcile that with your terrorist costume last Halloween.
> 
> Little Lola please be good from now on, for all of our sakes.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Mazzapoo (Jul 28, 2013)

Ha! It's a bit like Ginger Spice being the UN envoy, how do these things happen


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## sueanddaisy (Jun 17, 2015)

Lola'sGrammy said:


> View attachment 96153
> View attachment 96161
> 
> 
> ...


she is very precious and I hope all turns out well with you all. xxx sending hugs


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

399 quid .... Lets bloomin hope so!!!

I've however noticed something yesterday Eve and today 
I know when she's going to do " omen" dog!!! 
Literally I know!! Told everyone last night 
I quote 
" Lola has a look about her so pre warn time, leave her alone for a bit" 
Ten mins later my other half went to stop her grabbing ( I dunno what) and o heard her 
I just walked in the room and said 
" told you so" 
Poor man has heard that so many times before 
However today she had the look also 
Over a spanner I'd dropped on the floor!!!
Thankfully I needed a 10mm one 
She started when I walked past her .. I just told her she could have that one as its only 8 mm 
Her face was a picture 
Almost like 
" oh ... Um.. It's metal??? " 



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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

Well done you - reading your dog is 100% the right way forward and I love your 'you can have that one' response and her reaction.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Lol!! 
She didn't ! Not much a puppy can do with a spanner to be honest! 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

It *is* brilliant because you are talking to her and she is talking to you. You may not agree with each others point of view but next time you'll read the signs, and get her a spanner of her own, hopefully made of wood so she can shred it. Every time you put something up and away from her you could say "this ones mine, but you can have this kong (or whatever).


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

What's a spanner?


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

We would call it a socket wrench I believe.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Spanner x


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Socket wrench 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Thank you for the spanner lesson. Now what I want to know is what you were doing with these spanners?


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## Lindor (Feb 3, 2014)

Interesting. We just call it a wrench over hear.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Taking the radio out of my daughters car ( learner driver) to get the serial number so I could look up the code online 

The fact I have such things is that if I wait for a man to do things it seems to take an eternity so I bought myself tools a few years ago !!! ️


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm impressed. If you can take out a car radio then you have what it takes to learn to speak dog, really.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

That's nothing 
You have no idea !! 
Jack of all trades 


Sadly master of none as such!!! 



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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Do you want to visit Canada? I am renovating an old farm house and need help getting over a hump.


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Are you paying? If so, I'll book my flight!!! 


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

Not with cash. How does a lifetime supply of horseflies sound? Or maybe a few thousand pounds of manure for your garden?


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## Lola'sGrammy (Mar 1, 2015)

Um...: 
I'll get back to you? 


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