# vet issue!!!



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

I was wanting to know what people thought about my visit to the vets??
Unfortunately, the day before we picked up Izzy she had been to the vets and they had found a tiny umbilical hernia. The vet said that this wasnt going to cause any problems for her but it didnt matter anyway cause we had fallen in love with her already. We brought her home and a few weeks later we took her to get her second injections from our local vets. While i was there she ask me when i was thinking of spaying her?? i told her that i was thinking about letting her have one set of pups ....to which the rant came on.
She told me that it was the wrong choice to make and that it was introducing deformities into breeds (which i could take on board because of the hernia) but then she went on to say she is basically a cross breed and i should'nt really be breeding her because they are twice more likely to inherit the bad ilnesses in both dogs (not any good!)....to which i replyed "she may be a crossbreed but she's a designer cross breed which is what i wanted" (due to my son having allergies) I kinda picked up she was all about pedigree's and she was basically calling my lil Izzy a mongrel! (not that i have issues with mongrels cause we had them when i was growing up and we never had any problem with them, but she made me feel really bad about thinking of letting her have a litter. Should they really have that attitude about ANY dog?? Anyone thoughts would be appriciated


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

to be honest most vets try to talk you out of breedeing. i dont think hernias are inheritable, buit she would need an opp anyway to sort the herinia so that is normaly done during a nurering. 

why do you want to breed her?

What do you Know about breeding?

are you going to get all the helth checks she needs and be able to find a sire with the same tests?

are you prepared for her temprament to change during the pregnancy, which may or may not carry on after she has had the pups?

can you drop work at the drop of a had if she goes into labor?

if something goes wrong and you need to get her to the vets to save her or the pups can you aford the bill as normal pet insurance does not cover breeding?

if something did happen to her or she just couldnt produce milck(hapens in human so can happen in dogs) or maybe she just cant take to the pups, can you aford the time to feed every hour or so?

are you prpared for the amout of damege that a litter of 5-6 puppies can do to your home.?

are you going to vacinate and/or microchip the pups before they leave for new homes?

are you able to spend the time vetting owners, home checks, police checks etc?

if you cant find homes for every pup can you keep them ?

if one of the owners is having problems of family isues sor something that means they cand afored the time or money to keep the dog would you be able to take a pup back at almost a year old or older top either keep or find a new home for.?

to me breeding is a masive responsobilaty, that needs more reserch thant most people seem to put in, and more time than people seem to think. some people just see pound sines knowing how much they payed for their own pup. 

please dont take offence to anything i have said, having been the owner or cockapoos for almost 5 years i am all to awair of the way people think about them, and it is the same for most breeds, i think they estimate that out of hervery litter born atleat one will go missing and never be found, another will endup being rehomed and atleas one will end up in a dogs home which may or may not find a forever home. 

so i think before breeding the questions above should be answered. 

i understand your upset about your vets abruptness and atitude and she could have handled it better, however i do see her point. 

hope this has made sence.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

Look for a new vet 

Agree with Kendal about breeding but the vet clearly has an issue about cross breeds, which will affect your relationship with them, so I would look for someone else who will just concentrate on the health of you dog.


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

No i have'nt taken offence kendal. i have asked for people opinions and i totally understand where you are coming from. I understand that there is alot of responsibility and ties with letting Izzy have pups. My issue is for to be hit with the question of spaying as soon as i enter the vets this is what i find quite distubing.... and for the vet to take offence because i was " only thinking" about letting Izzy have a litter of pups after she had asked me .It has never entered my thoughts about the money. If i had to get izzy spayed it wouldnt bother me as long as she was ok thats all that matters. My priority is her : ) I know that i need to do research about breeding and way up the pro's and cons same as i need to way up the pro's and cons about spaying her. I am not a person that rushes into anything without thinking it though first. I just think it was inappropriate of the vet to just assume that i was going to spay her straight away because she was a cross breed that is what shocked me.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

kelly282 said:


> No i have'nt taken offence kendal. i totally understand where you are coming from. I understand that there is alot of responsibility and ties with letting Izzy have pups. My issue is for to be hit with the question of spaying as soon as i enter the vets this is what i find quite distubing.... and for the vet to take offence because i was " only thinking" about letting Izzy have a litter of pups.It has never entered my thoughts about the money. If i had to get izzy spayed it wouldnt bother me as long as she was ok thats all that matters. I know that i need to do research about breeding and way up the pro's and cons same as i need to way up the pro's and cons about spaying her. I just think it was inappropriate of the vet to assume that i was going to spay her straight away because she was a cross breed that is what shocked me.


every vet does it, it is all due to the fac that the dogs trus, sspca, blue cross etc are all srugeling at the moment with the and have done for the past couple of years with the number of dogs needing their care, now most of them wont take dog surendered to them the will only take strays as they have no where els, and because they are now no longer alowed to put health dogs down they are backed up. althoug i just sesently found out that the rspca are hip scoring larger breeds and if their scroe comes back as beeing just a little higher than it should (the dont may never develop hip problems) the put them down even if they already have a home set up for them. 

so the vets are working form the other end and trying to incorege owners to nuter their pets to decrease the problem latter down the line. it has never been an isue for us as we knew form day one we were nutering them so when we walk in and they ask we just give them the date we want to book them in. 

i once saw victoria still well exsplaning breeding in the us with a bar or balls from a ball pool. you dog has 5-6 pups then 2 of the litter has 5-6 pups then 2 pups fom that litter have litters thats like 30 dogs in the space of 2 or 3 years depeding on if they wait long enough for the pups to mature properly before they breed. 

i would concider breeding but it would have to be a very spetal bitch for me to do it. 

please dont be to harsh on your vet, they do have the dogs best interest at heart.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

kelly282 said:


> . I am not a person that rushes into anything without thinking it though first. I just think it was inappropriate of the vet to just assume that i was going to spay her straight away because she was a cross breed that is what shocked me.


they do it with every breed ant with cats too, i dont even thing they push more for popular breeding breed than for other, i think its just all breeds, unless they are rare then its important for them to breed to keep the veriety in the gean pool.


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

I know that its their job and thats what they have to advise, but it put me on the spot a little. Im a new owner, my partner wasnt there, id not spoke to him about it, i just felt she was putting pressure on me. I think ive got my hands full with Izzy at this moment in time. Im not rushing into either choice at the mo!! im enjoying Izzy bear and her very large out bursts of energy Thanks for your advice though it makes you think about things.


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

embee said:


> Look for a new vet
> 
> Agree with Kendal about breeding but the vet clearly has an issue about cross breeds, which will affect your relationship with them, so I would look for someone else who will just concentrate on the health of you dog.


i think i will mandy.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

kelly282 said:


> i think i will mandy.


Good. Visiting the vet should be a pleasurable experience. When I take Flo they love her to bits, answer any questions and are really supportive, especially as I'm a first time dog owner. Remember it's a service you are paying a lot for. When I got Flo spayed I even asked for the operation rota to see who was operating when and selected the vet that I wanted. You are the customer after all.


----------



## weez74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I agree with both Mandy and Kendal. I think Kendal's right - vets have to be pro-spaying and have to inform owners of exactly what problems are caused by what they see as ill-informed views. They are struggling against a view that is held by a lot of people who don't actually know what they are talking about, that having one set of pups will be better for their dog. 

I saw it last week at the puppy party we were at, where one of the owners wanted her dog to have one litter and her reason was that she felt it was 'natural'. That was the only reason she coudl give for it. The vet gave us lots of information about the medical problems that unspayed dogs can get (and showed us some horrific pictures)and talked about the medical problems that can happen whilst giving birth. 

Although I can understand why it is a very emotional issue for vets - they see the results caused by people who didn't think it through properly or didn't get the facts before making their decision - equally, your vet did not exactly put it across very well! She just doesn't sound like a very nice person, and that's not what you want from a vet!

As a result, like Mandy said, you're not going to want to go and see her now, which doesn't sound like a good thing at all. I think you should really think about all the issues Kendal has raised, then find a new vet and make sure that you bring the subject up with them before they ask you, so you can ask them questions and let them know you've taken the issues seriously.


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks Louise, i'm taking on board what you've all said. Its like youve just mentioned i too thought it was better for a bitch to have a litter before spaying obviously i have some thinking to do and lots of infomation to find before my next visit to the vets.


----------



## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Obviously it was something you were thinking about and not ready to discuss or be so blatantly criticised for. I think if advice is sought then the vets should give you the info to make an informed choice and not be so judgemental, their help and support would lead to a healthier pregnancy. I appreciate they will come across and be party to alot of accidental litters, unhealthy pups and pregnancies etc. I would have to change vets purely cos of their opinon of my dog .....better luck next time x


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

kelly282 said:


> Thanks Louise, i'm taking on board what you've all said. Its like youve just mentioned i too thought it was better for a bitch to have a litter before spaying obviously i have some thinking to do and lots of infomation to find before my next visit to the vets.


It is not better for a bitch to have a litter before being spayed so if that is the only reason you were thinking of breeding your dog then you shouldn't. Pre-first season or after first season is the best time to spay and gives dog best protection for a range of problems inclduing cancer. If you breed then they should be at least 2 years old and have had 2-3 seasons before breeding.


----------



## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

That vet was a little harsh to say the least ...this is your lovely cockapoo puppy they are talking about ...defo change vets Kelly...Izzy may be a cross/designer/hybrid breed to be a healthier dog than its pedigrees in fact!!!! 

As for the spaying or breeding ...just read Kendal’s questions and read up on the whole dog mating, pregnancy, whelping and caring for puppies, it isn't easy and it isn't for everyone but if done correctly and with 100% commitment it can be a beautiful experience.

Always health check bitch and stud, and make sure they are not related in anyway ..... Izzy is young so take your time and we are all here to help you along your way if you need us ... when I say us ,I actually mean Kendal, Mandy and Karen who always make thing seems so clear and give outstanding advice .... ha ha ha ....


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

aww thanks JoJo thats really nice to hear. Ive already had loads of advice and support from just one post... am im sure there will be many more....


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

JoJo said:


> That vet was a little harsh to say the least ...this is your lovely cockapoo puppy they are talking about ...defo change vets Kelly...Izzy may be a mutt but a designer breed mutt breed to be a healthier dog than its pedigrees in fact!!!!


Cockapoos aren't mutts or mongrels  By definition a mongrel is a dog of unknown parentage. A cockapoo is a purposeful crossbreed between known parents who are hopefully KC registered so you know they really are a pure cocker x poodle. Some dogs sold as cockapoos are not 'proper' crossbreeds as there is an element of unknown parentage in one or both parents history.


----------



## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Couldn't have put it better myself Mandy.... Designer / Hybrid Cockapoo!!!


----------



## kelly282 (Jan 25, 2011)

I know that both sets of Izzy's grandparents were kc registered, i have all there details for just incase. I think its nice to know where your lil doggy has come from too.


----------



## embee (Dec 27, 2010)

kelly282 said:


> I know that both sets of Izzy's grandparents were kc registered, i have all there details for just incase. I think its nice to know where your lil doggy has come from too.


That's good.

Anyone buying a cockapoo, especially those advertised as F1, or first crosses, should be asking to see the KC registration documents and parents pedigrees as part of the reason you are paying such a premium for your puppy is because they are purposeful cross breed from to pedigree dogs.

Bear in mind that anyone can order a pedigree certificate. Once I knew Flo's parents Kennel Club names it was easy to go on the KC website and order a five generation pedigree certificate for each parent so, just because someone shows you a KC pedigree it doesn't mean that the dog you are looking at is the one on the certificate (so distrusting aren't I ). The owner of the dam and sire should have the dog's KC owner certficate. If the breeder says the parents are pedigree dogs but not kennel club registered you then need to ask yourself whether the parents are what you are being told they are. The breeder they got their cocker or poodle from might not have registered the puppies with the KC to discourage those taking the puppies from breeding for any number of reasons which might include health problems, for example if a bitch has trouble welping and c section is required then it's not a great idea to breed from any of her puppies who might have the same problem.

Not sure what paper trail there is once you get to F2, F3 etc as I'm not aware there is any formal way to register a cross breed and any subsequent puppies here in the UK - unless anyone knows otherwise. There are registries in the US fro cross breeds but not aware of a UK equivalent.


----------



## parapluie (Dec 22, 2010)

As others have said, I think it's the level of rudeness and insensitivity regarding cockapoos as a "breed" that is most troublesome about this vet. Obviously you wanted the dog and she should have been sensitive to that, whether or not the dog is purebred. Hope you found a new vet.


----------



## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

embee said:


> That's good.
> 
> Anyone buying a cockapoo, especially those advertised as F1, or first crosses, should be asking to see the KC registration documents and parents pedigrees as part of the reason you are paying such a premium for your puppy is because they are purposeful cross breed from to pedigree dogs.
> 
> ...


i think its Incas mum who shres the same blood line as my mums old cockers, mum recognised one of the afexes.


----------

