# Help with biting !!



## Dieseldd

Hi, I've got a 12 week old puppy, Diesel, he's been with us 4 weeks now, he's a little snap dragon, especially with me, he lunges at my legs and arms, hangs off my clothes. He's crated and sleeps lovely through the night. His biting is really getting me down. I've tried all sorts, pushing him away with a stern no, stopping & walking away even screaming at him and pretending to cry. I don't want to put him in his cage as punishment as I'm worried this will make him frightened of his cage. I make sure I have toys nearby to put in his mouth before he bites. He bites at the family but not as much, my 10 year old son is getting terrified of him. What can I do ? I'm starting to think I've made a terrible mistake in getting him


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## wellerfeller

There seems to be loads of posts about puppies biting at the moment. Your pup will grow out of it, puppies bite and snap. They are rude little monkeys that are not born with good manners.
Firstly, sleep! Puppies need LOTS of it. Make sure pup gets plenty of bedtime. Tired puppy = snappy puppy.
Secondly I would buy a house training line ( use under supervision as puppy could get tangled and hurt) let the pup trail the line behind him, when he starts biting use the line to remove puppy from who ever he is biting. This way he will be getting next to no attention for the biting. I would ignore, no screaming or noise as pup thinks any reaction is great. It's about removing puppy from the stimulus. Your son may also be good at this as it will let him control pup with out having to put his hands near this teeth. Firm but gentle. Be consistent and eventually it will stop, I promise.


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## greenman

*Puppy Biting*

I'm also having problems with my 13 week male Pup biting and he does have plenty of sleep. He sleeps whenever he can is very rarely disturbed.
I have tried most of the ideas on here and he still snaps; I am also trying not to put him in his cage when he starts because I also do not want him to become scared of it. When told off, he can sometimes just loose it and run off and then around frantically. He does tend to go for either me (Only Male in House) or my 13 year old daughter he does nearly everything for him in my absence. I'm worried that this will carry on into his older years.
Any further advice is most welcome.


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## Lindor

Be patient. They will outgrow it. You could compare it to a toddler having a temper tantrum. When puppies are overtired they will get bitey. Just stay calm, redirect their attention towards a toy then ignore them.


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## tessybear

Sorry to sound unsympathetic but this is perfectly normal. It's what puppies do. Dexter was the absolute worst biter. I had holes in the bottom of my trousers where he hang on to them by his teeth when my back was turned. Telling him off never worked. As you rightly say it's wrong to use the crate as punishment. I used to shut him in my downstairs loo for a few minutes which worked a bit. 
Don't despair he will grow out of it and finally get the message. Give him lots of long lasting chews and you will need bags of patience. Bonnie did all her biting on Dexter not us so he got his come uppance! Good luck!


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## janice griffiths

yes they do grow out of it eventually but it is so annoying when they do it , I find a rolled up newspaper placed around the house that you can grab and give them a slap on nose with works along with a voice command , They then understand that if they bite they get a surprise ,it does not hurt just shocks them , be consistent and do not ever let puppies get away with it, there mother dog would not so why should you ? i will probably be reprimanded for this advise !! haha


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## Lindor

janice griffiths said:


> yes they do grow out of it eventually but it is so annoying when they do it , I find a rolled up newspaper placed around the house that you can grab and give them a slap on nose with works along with a voice command , They then understand that if they bite they get a surprise ,it does not hurt just shocks them , be consistent and do not ever let puppies get away with it, there mother dog would not so why should you ? i will probably be reprimanded for this advise !! haha


I'm sorry Janice but I strongly disagree with you. You should never never ever hit or slap your puppy or dog! Would you hit a child? Sure they may get a surprise when you do but in the end you will end up with a dog that will cower in fear every time a hand is raised above its head or worse, a dog that becomes aggressive in order to protect itself.


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## tessybear

I think we've moved on since the smacking and hitting days. When I was a child it was normal to get the odd smack from your parents and children even got smacked and caned at school. It the same with pets. I would never smack my dogs especially a young puppy, rewarding good behaviour is so much more effective.


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## wellerfeller

Do not, do not hit your puppy!!!!! Janice, what are you thinking?!?
Hitting your puppy will just teach him to be scared of you and make a much bigger problem for you.


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## wellerfeller

Do not, do not hit your puppy!!!!! Janice, what are you thinking?!?
Hitting your puppy will just teach him to be scared of you and make a much bigger problem for you.


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## Lexi&Beemer

janice griffiths said:


> yes they do grow out of it eventually but it is so annoying when they do it , I find a rolled up newspaper placed around the house that you can grab and give them a slap on nose with works along with a voice command , They then understand that if they bite they get a surprise ,it does not hurt just shocks them , be consistent and do not ever let puppies get away with it, there mother dog would not so why should you ? i will probably be reprimanded for this advise !! haha



Wait - are you suggesting hitting a 12 week old puppy that probably weighs 5-6lbs for doing what nature has designed them to do? 

First they don't just "grow" out of it which is why everyone has given amazing suggestions already. You also have to teach the baby-puppy bite inhibition as that's what the mom and littermates would do. I know this because I watched Lexi&Beemer do that with each other. I understood what they were doing because the same advice previously given by others fit exactly what they were doing. 

Second, your logic doesn't make any sense to me. The very point of smacking the nose of a baby-puppy is to inflict pain. By adding the length of the newspaper you actually add more leverage and torque making the impact significantly harder than if you used the part closest to your hand. Where do baseball players hit the ball on the bat? The furthest part of the bat because of this. So it's just not true. Otherwise the baby-puppy wouldn't be "shocked". 

Third, a baby-puppy's mom would never react that is not commensurate to the offense. She would also teach bite inhibition which means she would be letting it gnaw on her (hanging of ears) until it was too hard and then give the baby-puppy correction to not bite down so hard. It would not overreact. 

Finally, I don't think it's a funny. Suggesting inflicting violence on a tiny helpless creature and then laughing about being reprimanded is not amusing. 


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## wellerfeller

I am going to leave Janice's comment up as it highlights everything you should NEVER do to a dog. 
Janice please do not offer up violence as a way to treat puppies, this could be the shortest comeback in history!


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## janice griffiths

ok have it your way after all you all no best, lets let the puppy go on biting the owners and it may bite a child in the face but thats ok ? if the puppy bite its mother or siblings the mum would bite puppy or siblings would retaliate , we are dealing with dogs not children.


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## wellerfeller

I know better than to advise people to hit puppies, yes!!


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## janice griffiths

I am going to leave Janice's comment up as it highlights everything you should NEVER do to a dog. 
Janice please do not offer up violence as a way to treat puppies, this could be the shortest comeback in history!
__________________
Karen and Weller xx
i am not saying violence , your words karen and you know i don't mean that get it in perspective


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## janice griffiths

Wait - are you suggesting hitting a 12 week old puppy that probably weighs 5-6lbs for doing what nature has designed them to do? 

First they don't just "grow" out of it which is why everyone has given amazing suggestions already. You also have to teach the baby-puppy bite inhibition as that's what the mom and littermates would do. I know this because I watched Lexi&Beemer do that with each other. I understood what they were doing because the same advice previously given by others fit exactly what they were doing. 

Second, your logic doesn't make any sense to me. The very point of smacking the nose of a baby-puppy is to inflict pain. By adding the length of the newspaper you actually add more leverage and torque making the impact significantly harder than if you used the part closest to your hand. Where do baseball players hit the ball on the bat? The furthest part of the bat because of this. So it's just not true. Otherwise the baby-puppy wouldn't be "shocked". 

Third, a baby-puppy's mom would never react that is not commensurate to the offense. She would also teach bite inhibition which means she would be letting it gnaw on her (hanging of ears) until it was too hard and then give the baby-puppy correction to not bite down so hard. It would not overreact. 

Finally, I don't think it's a funny. Suggesting inflicting violence on a tiny helpless creature and then laughing about being reprimanded is not amusing. 


lexi and beemer how many litters have you bred have you watched consistently mothers and puppies , don't think so ? i have and i do no what i am talking about .


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## 2ndhandgal

From working with numerous pups at classes as well as my own dogs and friends who have fostered many pups between them, those most likely to bite people are the ones raised with humans who have hit them or otherwise made them afraid which is exactly what this is likely to lead to.

My dogs are not afraid of me and if someone has to make a sudden grab for them one day for any reason they are not likely to fear they are going to be hit and maybe bite out of fear.


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## lady amanda

Janice, the number of litters a person has does not dictate the respect that animals should have. by your logic a puppy mill is a great representation on how to care for dogs.


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## 2ndhandgal

This is my two playing when Chance (black dog) was around 3 months and Molly was 3 - they are playing using their mouths as dogs do and the game would stop immediately if either was getting too rough.

You will notice at the end of the video Chance gets too close to the yellow toy and Molly stops playing and warns her - all done with body language and no aggression or rolled up newspapers in sight.

http://beanydogz.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/playing.html 

Chance was born in my friends house and I saw her, the other pups and mother most days, I did not witness rough telling off at any stage. As Chance got older the other dogs sometimes told her off, but again all done with body language and not touching or hurting.


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## lady amanda

there are other ways to teach bite inhibition, even ways that more mimic the way mom acts with her young. rolling up a newspaper and giving a dog a whack is not one of them


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## janice griffiths

Janice, the number of litters a person has does not dictate the respect that animals should have. by your logic a puppy mill is a great representation on how to care for dogs.

don't be offensive to me amanda you might get a warning from karen 
__________________


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## Lexi&Beemer

Dogs do not retaliate. They react and respond to stimuli. Not very different from young children. I don't know anyone here who is suggesting that there be no intervening. In fact every post thus far, including yours, poses suggestions about ways to intervene. The problem with what your suggesting is that it will result in the very thing that you seem to think it will prevent - turning a puppy who is behaving instinctively and rather than teaching it to modify its behavior to best fit the environment it's living in - with people - making it aggressive. 

Even the father of behaviorism, Skinner, said that punishment is an ineffective way of modifying behavior. The behavior you are trying to change only happens so long as the punishment or threat of punishment still is there. That means for your method to be effective the owners, including the kid, have to constantly and repeatedly hold a newspaper and inflict the punishment multiple times until the person becomes paired with pain of being hit. This is what everyone is talking about. The puppy he. Learns you are the source of pain. The minute you or what he/she has paired as the source of punishment leaves the room it will continue with the old behavior. This is also why some people report that the puppy behaves better/worse with one household member but not others. Because the punishment and the rewards are paired with a specific person. Why you have everyone involved in training so the puppy/dog knows everyone gives treats when he/she follows a command. 

Why do you praise/treat good behavior (peeing outside, sitting nicely) because then the puppy/dog will want to do it to please you. By slapping the dog with a newspaper all you do is teach him/her to be afraid of you. But when you aren't there the puppy/dog is going to go after everyone else but with greater intensity. Why? Because you've elevated it's agitation/anxiety. What you are saying is counterintuitive to the goal. 


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## Lexi&Beemer

janice griffiths said:


> Janice, the number of litters a person has does not dictate the respect that animals should have. by your logic a puppy mill is a great representation on how to care for dogs.
> 
> don't be offensive to me amanda you might get a warning from karen
> __________________



But it's okay for you to be offensive to me? 

Your reply that I don't know what I'm talking about because I haven't raised a litter is what in logic world is called a strawman argument. By pointing out something completely irrelevant to whether or not the factual contents of the arguments, the warrants that underly the arguments, or straight up the argument itself is evidence that you do not have any basis for your position. 



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## wellerfeller

janice griffiths said:


> I am going to leave Janice's comment up as it highlights everything you should NEVER do to a dog.
> Janice please do not offer up violence as a way to treat puppies, this could be the shortest comeback in history!
> __________________
> Karen and Weller xx
> i am not saying violence , your words karen and you know i don't mean that get it in perspective


Sorry Janice but I find the hitting of anyone as violent! Let alone a small puppy.
Here's my perspective: I've seen you give this advice before, to new owners struggling to crate train a pup, this was your previous stint on forum. So you think giving puppies a swipe across the nose does them no harm??? Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps your actions could be why the puzzled and worried new owner as having problems with a shy puppy that cowers at their feet and pees itself when all they have done is pick up an item like an umbrella or waved an arm while putting a coat on?!? You simply do not see the after effects of your nose hitting. It does plenty of harm believe me.


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## janice griffiths

Does not matter what i say or do i will never be right ,when i make a comment which i am entitled to its wrong so have it your way i know nothing only bred dogs for 40 years successfully despite what you few may think bye bye


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## lady amanda

you are entitled to make a comment, yes. we are also entitled to our opinion of your comment causing violence. no one asked you to not make your comment. We have asked however that you stop striking puppies; and in turn that all other people do as well.


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## janice griffiths

amanda you make it sound like a beat my puppies up you over exaggerate every thing i say a rolled up news paper makes more noise than hurts them , i don't forcefully hit them i tap them on the nose and tell them off , why do you have to turn it all around and make me out to be a violent dog beater , as i said in a previous post better to put a stop quickly to a puppies actions than it bites a child in the face and scares them for life , i meet many young children who have been frightened by owners who have no control over there puppies and dogs and most off the owners have small dogs that are spoilt!!! and allowed to get away with biting and jumping up!!, hurting children's legs by jumping up them. To the point dog ends up in a dogs home ....at the end of the day i love my dogs but i am in control i am the pack leader ...they are dogs not people. respect both i say .. but you won't give me any credit for one word i have said so leave it there.


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## wellerfeller

The only person that made it sound like you beat your pups is you Janice. No one else.
You have had such a strong reaction to this as it is quite an offensive suggestion and one that thankfully is dying out. My own father is 'old school' when it comes to dogs and I wouldn't like him dishing rubbish advice out like that!!! So please, this has nothing to do with WHO said it, it's WHAT you said that caused the problem.


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## 2ndhandgal

An excellent article here explaining why you need to teach your dog bite inhibition firstly then stop the biting, if you simply punish for puppy biting the pup is likely to never learn that vital bite inhibition and any bites later in life are more likely to cause serious damage 

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Bite-Inhibition_16232-1.html


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## Lexi&Beemer

janice griffiths said:


> amanda you make it sound like a beat my puppies up you over exaggerate every thing i say a rolled up news paper makes more noise than hurts them , i don't forcefully hit them i tap them on the nose and tell them off , why do you have to turn it all around and make me out to be a violent dog beater , as i said in a previous post better to put a stop quickly to a puppies actions than it bites a child in the face and scares them for life , i meet many young children who have been frightened by owners who have no control over there puppies and dogs and most off the owners have small dogs that are spoilt!!! and allowed to get away with biting and jumping up!!, hurting children's legs by jumping up them. To the point dog ends up in a dogs home ....at the end of the day i love my dogs but i am in control i am the pack leader ...they are dogs not people. respect both i say .. but you won't give me any credit for one word i have said so leave it there.



Now this may go into the territory of Red Herring. 

The problem with any type of punishment is that you teach the puppy/dog to be afraid and you train yourself to utilized coercive methods to elicit behavior. The problems worsen when your go to method of behavior control gets the added ingredient of anger, frustration, fear when the dog behaves in a way you don't want. The result is an escalation of punishment and further violence toward the dog. Plus in order for punishments to work you have to escalate the intensity, frequency, and duration in order for it to work. 

One can choose to control via coercion or one can control by instilling trust. They are alternative methods to reaching a goal. But there are also consequences beyond the immediate behavior change. One elicits fear, anxiety, frustration which leads to greater incidents of aggression while the other leads to an unending desire to please you and love you. Not very different in the raising of children. So yes maybe they aren't people (mine are as they are brilliant) but the principles are the same. 


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## janice griffiths

NONE of my dogs are afraid of me they are respectful and all come to me wanting attention and fuss so maybe i am old school , i was reared by my mum and dad like that , very respectful ,years ago we never had children attacking and maiming parents or teachers because there was consequences DISCIPLINE thats why our young people are all going out of control , teachers scared to discipline the pupils because of reprisals ... and dogs savaging children wake up and see the old ways are the best but i am sorry if you feel i am wrong but thats the way it is folks , but i will take care in what i say and hope i am forgiven x


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## 2ndhandgal

Lexi&Beemer said:


> Now this may go into the territory of Red Herring.
> 
> The problem with any type of punishment is that you teach the puppy/dog to be afraid and you train yourself to utilized coercive methods to elicit behavior. The problems worsen when your go to method of behavior control gets the added ingredient of anger, frustration, fear when the dog behaves in a way you don't want. The result is an escalation of punishment and further violence toward the dog. Plus in order for punishments to work you have to escalate the intensity, frequency, and duration in order for it to work.
> 
> One can choose to control via coercion or one can control by instilling trust. They are alternative methods to reaching a goal. But there are also consequences beyond the immediate behavior change. One elicits fear, anxiety, frustration which leads to greater incidents of aggression while the other leads to an unending desire to please you and love you. Not very different in the raising of children. So yes maybe they aren't people (mine are as they are brilliant) but the principles are the same.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think this is one of the best explanations I have ever seen on why to avoid training methods involving punishment


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## janice griffiths

lexi and beemer 
I agree to an extent on what you say but don't you think each dog/puppy adult / child is different some of my older dogs need only a soft word and they do what is asked of them , when it comes to Romeo for example he has a short temper is very vocal and used to be a b..... for biting my clothes and legs but the rolled up news paper worked on hime i did not nock 7 bells out of him but threatened him with it , disciple consequences just like the naughty step for children .... the rolled up paper and naughty step are both disciplines that teach them to obey .


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## Lexi&Beemer

My two are perfect examples of needing different methods to help them with bite inhibition with me. Beemer was straight forward. High pitch yelp and then walk away. I learned this by watching Lexi. Once he stopped I went right back and played with him. Reward for not biting. Lexi on the other hand thought the high pitched squeal was even more entertaining and wouldn't stop. but what she loved even more was praise. So when she would go at my hand and if she licked it or suck on my fingers I would praise her and tell her good kisses. Anything more a quick ouch and I pulled away. Good kisses she got to keep suckling away. Reward for not biting. She learned within a few trials to not bite down on my hand. Not everyone's method but still works for us. 

Neither of them even with their razor sharp puppy crockapoo teeth ever broke human skin. They have never bit another dog. I purposely stick my hand in their mouths so they are comfortable with hands near/in their mouths and know how to react. I've had plenty of occasions where I have had to quickly sweep their mouth for something they picked up, a bee they caught, or even to put my hand between them when play fight. I do all of that so they know the signal for not biting is my flesh or the skin of anyone else. I'm teaching them so they behaving a certain way without me being there. That is only done by reinforcement not punishment. I teach my dogs what I want them to do. Impossible to teach what not to do. 

Yes different methods are required. But should be based on reward/reinforcement not punishment. 


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## Marzi

If Dieseldd and greenman have stuck with this thread I really hope that they have been persuaded by the arguments put forward NOT to hit their puppies, but to gently, consistently and kindly teach their pups that teeth are for toys, not for skin.
I have had experience of breeding (not cockapoos) and love watching puppies interacting with their mum's and their siblings. I have seen a mother pup put her nose next to a pup that is suckling too vigorously and make a gentle deep rumble... the pup backs off. I have never seen a mother dog intentionally hurt a puppy - but she will leave them quickly if they persist in roughness. Sibling puppies will play boisterously and roughly - but they're fairly evenly matched in size and weight, if one hurts the other the game stops. There might be a squeal, a snap back or just passive refusal to participate. The pup who caused the injury may sit back o his haunches looking put out, or wander off to find a toy that doesn't mind being bitten. Next time he engages in play he will be gentler, until excitement gets the better of him ... lessons take weeks to learn. That article 2ndhandgal linked said up to 8 months... In my experience most learn it much, much sooner. 
We are people not dogs. We are bigger and stronger than our dogs. Even a young child has a significant weight and size advantage over a small pup. Don't leave young children and puppies together unsupervised. You always need to manage their time together.
Have toys readily to hand - knotted sock or skineeze type toy in your pocket is handy to offer an excited puppy and distract them from your skin.
Make sure everyone in the family is consistent... My teenage sons thought puppy bites were funny. They needed to be reminded that pups have to learn their manners and consistency is key.
Don't give up, don't think biting puppies are aggressive, they just have not yet learnt how to play nicely.


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## RuthMill

I am going to say in relation to all the comments that Maureen (Lexi&Beemer) should be commended for her input to this thread. Brilliant! 

As Marzi said I hope DieselDD and Greenman take on board the very sensible and sound advice by those offering non violent methods of training bite inhibition - because this is what teaching bite inhibition is, it's *training* NOT "discipline" in the old sense of the word ie enforcement of will. Discipline is a very over used word and often in the wrong context. The proper meaning of discipline is, providing systematic instruction to train a person/animal. Using the word discipline in the wrong context brings about negative connotations and as has been demonstrated in this thread, ie enforcing order through punishment by inflicting pain. 

Guys, those of you who have asked for advice, a lot of the training of your pup is down to your competence as a trainer, manager, guide - often you need to train yourself. I talked about this in another thread recently... Modification of behaviour is not just for the dogs...

Here is a link...


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## RuthMill

Sorry the link didn't post... So here is a quote from the thread...



RuthMill said:


> My theory is that if a dog is displaying unwanted behaviour this is because the human has not provided the necessary guidance. In really broad terms when you are a good manager, could be of a household, office, nursing team, classroom; you need to set ground rules of what is acceptable and what is not. A manager who is strong, supportive, but works as part of the team, provides training and guidance and comfort when it's needed is a good manager and will have a group of staff who work very well.
> 
> They key is guidance, if you've failed (I don't like the word fail but it gets the message across) to guide, the dog won't know what is acceptable TO YOU, they are not mind readers. Failing to guide is not your fault necessarily, the manager needs training too! "Train the trainer" is really important, this comes from reading, talking to others with experience and attending training classes with or without your dog.
> 
> Rather than worrying about dominance issues, which I don't believe really exist, think of it as needing to become a better guide, manager, trainer.
> 
> Children, dogs, employees, push boundaries or head off on the wrong path if they don't have a person to be their guide, mentor, trainer. There are times when strong will plays a part and manager and employee don't see eye to eye, but that's the managers job to look at the situation, understand why the employee wants to do it another way and work out a solution.
> 
> I think we complicate things with dogs sometimes. All the same rules we use everyday with our own species apply.


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## emjon123

I had to spend loads of time with Bailey on biting, only because the rest of the family thought it "cute" when she was biting. I eventually got it through to them that it would not be cute when she bit someone as an adult dog! When we all works together she soon got the message.

My dog trainer advised me to keep a rolled up newspaper nearby too. If Bailey did anything wrong, her advise was to hit myself over the head with the newspaper because ultimately it was my fault!


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## Marzi

emjon123 said:


> I had to spend loads of time with Bailey on biting, only because the rest of the family thought it "cute" when she was biting. I eventually got it through to them that it would not be cute when she bit someone as an adult dog! When we all works together she soon got the message.
> 
> My dog trainer advised me to keep a rolled up newspaper nearby too. If Bailey did anything wrong, her advise was to hit myself over the head with the newspaper because ultimately it was my fault!


Brilliant advice


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## RuthMill

emjon123 said:


> My dog trainer advised me to keep a rolled up newspaper nearby too. If Bailey did anything wrong, her advise was to hit myself over the head with the newspaper because *ultimately it was my fault!*


Exactly!!! We are ultimately responsible - train, manage, guide with love at the centre of everything you do


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## Miss Lilly

Wow! I can't believe anyone would still advocate the rolled up newspaper thing. It all seems a bit Barbara Woodhouse to me... and as far as I remember, she also advocated rubbing noses in poo. A pretty sadistic and no doubt useless form of training.

Miss Lilly is 7 months old today. She has fantastic bite inhibition although she still sometimes gets over excited and forgets to keep her teeth to herself. She has a very soft mouth though and has never, ever broken skin. She has never been hit, threatened or shouted at and never will be if I have anything to do with it (a stern no is as far as we go). She is consistently rewarded for good behaviour - with treats, toys, games etc. and everything stops (including eye contact) if she breaks a rule she knows. If she doesn't know the rule, we work on it.

Punishment does not work. Not for dogs, cats, mice, rats, kids or adults as far as I'm concerned and current research seems to back me up there quite solidly. Positive, reward based training for pups and rehabilitation (re-training) for older dogs does. 

In terms of kids getting their faces bitten as a result of a lack of discipline? Well, you may be right. But the discipline has nothing to do with taps on the nose or other forms of punishment. Noses are for smelling and sniffing. They are super sensitive and don't need tapping by anyone. Puppies cannot control themselves very well. Neither can small children. Leaving the two together unsupervised is a sure fire way of having things go badly wrong. In my opinion, no dog should be left unsupervised with a small child and vice versa and I personally would not recommend a young family taking on a pup until the child is mature enough to understand why certain actions (arm waving, squealing, ear / tail pulling etc.) are likely to result in a nip or worse.

Things take time: biting won't stop straight away and the best thing you can do is follow the advice of the very experienced previous posters. As an aside, your young pups will also start teething soon and will want to chew 24/7. It passes and humour, understanding and lots of chew toys help it do so more quickly. Miss Lilly pretty much calmed down overnight when her big teeth had come through at about 17 weeks from what I remember. So much so, that I initially thought she was unwell.

Be kind to your pups! They didn't choose to come live with you and are desperate to belong and find their place in your families. They need socialising, guidance, boundaries, training, play, love, good healthy food and lots and lots of sleep. You'll get through it. (Good) Puppy classes will help!


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## JasperBlack

Still thinking about the comparison of rolled news paper and naughty step! And that fact that because kids today aren't disciplined old school makes them disrespectful.....mmmmm! My daughter has never been smacked or threatened and is a polite kind individual and respects her teachers. Jasper is the same, loving, happy, good natured and mostly a good boy! Any misbehaviour is lack of guidance on my part, usually if I'm preoccupied with work. I go back to basics from time to time. He has never ever been smacked or threatened or shouted at. Our naughty step was his crate where he went for 10 minutes quiet time, he always went to his crate happy, wagging his tail. Jasper was a very bitey puppy as are most and he is still a little mouthy but he has learnt how much pressure to give without hurting. Cockapoos (well jasper anyway) are very sensitive clever dogs and a lot of damage physiologically can be done by recommending smacking your puppy with a newspaper! 


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## RuthMill

Aside from everything else, I would hate to humiliate my girls. They would be gutted if I hit them with a newspaper.


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## JasperBlack

RuthMill said:


> Aside from everything else, I would hate to humiliate my girls. They would be gutted if I hit them with a newspaper.



I can just imagine the entire lack of respect jasper would have for me if I did that to him! We would loose our bond. I don't think he'd ever trust me again. Just can't imagine ever being aggressive towards jasper 


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## fairlie

I totally agree with Janice that the old school way of a light smack on the snout worked quickly and effectively to reduce crockapup behaviour. It didn't "terrorize" our dogs or turn them mean. What we didn't know back then though Janice was that dogs can actually be taught to bite softly rather than taught not to bite at all. With the old school method (which works) you run the risk of a very serious injury when the adult dog snaps at someone for very legitimate reasons (pain, dementia, startle, defense, fear and so on). If you use the new method of letting the pup gnaw on your hand and then progressively teach them to use a soft mouth you'll have a much safer dog. Agree with Janice though that many people now misunderstand this concept and let their puppies lunge, snap, bite and chase which does them an even bigger disservice in the end. Now we use house leads and time outs to stop this behaviour rather than smack them, but to some of us who have 'been around the block' a time or two we can see that the pendulum of leniancy can swing a little too far when it is trying to correct itself.


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## wellerfeller

Hitting a dog causes, fear, stress and if across the particularly sensitive snout it causes pain too. Pain can be used as punishment and will work, as in stopping the behaviour. How ever I don't believe any fear, stress or pain provides a solid foundation for a respectful, calm and loving bond between human and dogs. With all due respect I don't really think that changes no matter how many times you've been around the block.


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## Lexi&Beemer

Fairlie I think you are correct about everything except the notion that the smack on the nose doesn't terrorize them. I believe it does. It's equivalent to spanking your kid for hitting her little brother. The difference is dogs are more forgiving than children. You smack the pups nose and it does cause a trauma otherwise it wouldn't stop. But the foolish pup just wants to be loved and comes back. And so that's gets used as justification that it didn't really traumatize the puppy. 

Finally I'm going to say this and if I get booted I'm fine because it just infuriates me. Using a newspaper instead of your own hand is a chicken s#*t way of doing things. If your going to hit your dog the least you can do is use your own hand so the dog can learn who to really be afraid of - you. And the dog has a chance of protecting his/herself from the real danger. And if you think what I said is ridiculous because you would never abuse your dog than don't use the newspaper because that's really what it comes down to - a way to justify being violent toward a living creature that is 1/10 your size. 


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## fairlie

I sure hope you are not going to be banned! My goodness we are all adults here not children and we should be able to have civil discourse without getting banned.

We are all entitled to our opinions too. For the record I have never smacked Rufus with anything, nor would I ever, but I have smacked my daughter who at the age of two tried to kill her infant brother not once but twice. When you guys have children of your own you can time them out til eternity if you want, I am just trying to say that vilifying those of us who do/did things the old way is a bit harsh. 

If every baby who burst into tears when their mother screamed with pain from being chomped on, or every rambunctious colt whose mother told it off with a swift, well placed kick when it got too silly went on to have life long psychological damage I would agree with you guys. But my daughter turned out wonderfully and is thankful (I think) that I did not let her kill her brother. Janice will see the error of her ways far better if everybody does not gang up on her.


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## wellerfeller

fairlie said:


> I sure hope you are not going to be banned! My goodness we are all adults here not children and we should be able to have civil discourse without getting banned.
> 
> We are all entitled to our opinions too. For the record I have never smacked Rufus with anything, nor would I ever, but I have smacked my daughter who at the age of two tried to kill her infant brother not once but twice. When you guys have children of your own you can time them out til eternity if you want, I am just trying to say that vilifying those of us who do/did things the old way is a bit harsh.
> 
> If every baby who burst into tears when their mother screamed with pain from being chomped on, or every rambunctious colt whose mother told it off with a swift, well placed kick when it got too silly went on to have life long psychological damage I would agree with you guys. But my daughter turned out wonderfully and is thankful (I think) that I did not let her kill her brother. Janice will see the error of her ways far better if everybody does not gang up on her.


Of course no one will get banned! I think you're right Fairlie, mums of all species dicipline their off spring, absolutely as essential as the love that's needed in raising them. I just think the problems arise when we as humans dish out our version of dicipline on a species that doesn't understand it, as it's not their way of communicating. We can't talk dog and we can't force them to understand human


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## fairlie

wellerfeller said:


> We can't talk dog and we can't force them to understand human


Exactly! Now if there was a way to turn back time and undo each and every smack we oldsters gave our puppies and kids we might all do it but to my knowledge there is not so maybe we can we all agree that in 2014 the dog speak "experts" are telling us not to smack. Dollars to doughnuts in 2040 they'll discover that we were all torturing our dogs in some way or other back in 2014 and all of you will hang your heads in shame and hope the new "experts" will forgive you.


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## JasperBlack

My parents were advised to use a rolled up newspaper on our boisterous Doberman puppy. Who was a little monster. She grew up to be a lovely dog. They used to mainly hit their hand to make a loud noise though, but from time to time she had a nose tap. That was around 30 years ago. They would not dream of doing it now. Times and methods change all the time. For the better thank goodness. 


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## Bella&emmyrose

I have a 5 year old cockapoo and 13 week old cockapoo. The new one bites more than my first one ever did. If she is biting at my ankles, bites my hands too hard or chewing something she is not supposed to, I spray her tongue with biter Apple spray and say in a firm voice NO BITE! She is improving each day and now I mostly use the firm voice and she stops. Just be consistent and they will learn quickly. Cockapoos are very smart!


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## 2ndhandgal

please don't use such aversive methods on a tiny pup. Some pups bite more than others and they need to learn boundaries but the world has moved on and if you read the entire thread you will read many more positive ways to deal with this.

Bitter Apple spray is designed to be foul tasting to discourage dogs from chewing things they should not by being put on the items and should NEVER be sprayed directly as a pups mouth.

It might well be working but at what cost to your relationship with her?


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## Tinman

Try using a damp face cloth / flannel, twisted and placed in the freezer.
It will bring great relief to a teething puppy when chewing it. (The flannel - not the freezer! )


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## Rach14

Read this... http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=24098#/forumsite/20636/topics/75937

I was in your boat! I know the pain! But once their baby teeth have fallen out it all stops! Just bare with it and try teaching pup to lick instead of bite. That nailed it with ours! All I did was put a little coconut oil or peanut butter on my hand train him that if he licked he would get a treat. If he bit I would walk off!


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