# OUCH!! biting the bottom of my legs/trousers



## Alfie_Sherry

Alfie sometimes has wild moments, he goes down on his front paws, bum in the air, starts barking really loudly and then goes for my legs. My husband says I need to walk away and ignore him. Ive tried this but I dont want to turn it into tug of war but if I try to walk away he just goes in for another (normally deeper) bit and mouthful of my trousers/leg! 

This isn't all the time but normally once/twice first thing in the morning and then again in the evening. He will eventually calm down and he can be so lovely. 

I just don't know what to do.


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## doodlebug

Im guessing hes a puppy? if so its all very normal behaviour but not acceptable lol. You could try 'time out' putting him in a room dont speak to him untill he calms down, or try distracting him with a toy. 

Take a look at these Dunbar links on teaching dogs to 'jazz up' and settle down

http://www.dogstardaily.com/videos/jazz-and-settle-down

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/jazz-and-settle-down


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## kendal

the position you are describing is called a play bow. he is messing bout, you hubby is right you need to walk away but you need to get him off first, so put his lead on and set up a situation you know will trigger him to go for toy clothing, than give a light but sharp tug on the lead and say no or leave i used to know someone with the same problem but it only happend on the stairs and only to her so she had to nip it in the bud quick.


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## M&M's mummy

I was drawn to this thread as on the board all you can see is half the title so:

" ouch!!! biting the bottom of...... 

Anyway like has been said it's just puppy playfulness and probably excitement especially if it is happening first thing in the morning.


You could try distraction techniques and teaching him the word "no".

Has he a fav toy? maybe used that to get his attention and then give him lots of praise when he stops biting and goes off to play with his toy.

If you sort of shake him off your leg and get louder he just thinks it is a game.

Also you could trying going "ouch" and "no" in a firm voice then walking off to another room and shut the door so he can't get to you. Leave it for a few mins then go out. If he does it again repeat.

When he realises he is not getting attention he may give up.


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## Emma

I has this problem with maggie usually when she is overt excited and I'm not giving her attention, it's all very well to say ignore it but it can be really sore. It was only me that got it she didn't do it to my bf or any othe family members. 
I found there was no distracting her from it, she was too interested in my leg. So I kept a lead on her said no very loudly and put her in time out ever time she did it, this worked great and she now no longer does it in the house.
She does still do it in the park tho and I had a chat with a dog trainer about it in puppy class, she said as it's hard to do time out on the park to restrain her. I say no very loudly and lie her on her Side holding her shoulder and hip until she gives up the struggle, this seems to be working as have only had to do it twice!
Totally feel ur pain but it will get better. Maggie looks like a horror when she does it, I'm sure some people must think she is aggressive either all the barking and growling she does when she does it. Good luck. 
Emma x


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## doodlebug

Emma said:


> I has this problem with maggie usually when she is overt excited and I'm not giving her attention, it's all very well to say ignore it but it can be really sore. It was only me that got it she didn't do it to my bf or any othe family members.
> I found there was no distracting her from it, she was too interested in my leg. So I kept a lead on her said no very loudly and put her in time out ever time she did it, this worked great and she now no longer does it in the house.
> She does still do it in the park tho and I had a chat with a dog trainer about it in puppy class, she said as it's hard to do time out on the park to restrain her. I say no very loudly and lie her on her Side holding her shoulder and hip until she gives up the struggle, this seems to be working as have only had to do it twice!
> Totally feel ur pain but it will get better. Maggie looks like a horror when she does it, I'm sure some people must think she is aggressive either all the barking and growling she does when she does it. Good luck.
> Emma x


aw 'alpha rolling' will only intimidate her and make her more frustrated,its outdated and flawed.

if i were you i would enrol her in an APDT puppy class where you will be taught how to train her humanely http://www.apdt.co.uk/


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## Emma

I do train my dog humanely, but when she is being really naughty that is what has worked and has only been used as a last resort. Maggie has been none the worse for it. I take her to a kennel club puppy class and found it to be very good. I now have a happy puppy and no longer have bleeding and bruised calves. I think calling it inhumane is a little harsh. Might not be what u would do and that's cool, everyone has their own preference I suppose, I'm just stating what worked for us with the same problem. Emma x


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## doodlebug

Emma said:


> I do train my dog humanely, but when she is being really naughty that is what has worked and has only been used as a last resort. Maggie has been none the worse for it. I take her to a kennel club puppy class and found it to be very good. I now have a happy puppy and no longer have bleeding and bruised calves. I think calling it inhumane is a little harsh. Might not be what u would do and that's cool, everyone has their own preference I suppose, I'm just stating what worked for us with the same problem. Emma x


sorry but however you look at it ,it is bulliying the dog into submission and her behaviour was just normal puppy behaviour

the last part of this link says it all for me

http://k9domain.org/alpha_theory.aspx

If dogs are mans best friend, then why do we treat them like our worse enemies? Saying that all they think about is how to dominate us. It really shouldn’t be like that but this is exactly what is implied with the alpha theory. For those that dismiss this as simple semantics, as L. David Mech put it, its not so much about the terminology but rather what it falsely implies: that dogs and wolves operate using a strict and aggressive hierarchy. There is no use in turning an aggressive dog into a fearful one, they are both hazards for the human household. Dr. Ian Dunbar excellently said “What’s the point of winning the battle when you lose the war?”. Using more positive methods give similar if not better results and it avoids having to stress the dog, but one shouldn’t think that positive means permissive. You can solve a problem using positive methods and at the same time be viewed by your canine companions as a leader provided you put forth on your part. Debunking the alpha theory doesn’t imply that there is no such thing as dominant dogs or hierarchies, they exist for sure but they are grossly exaggerated in the dominance theory. This being said, we should all hope that people and trainers alike discard this way of thinking and make training and living with a dog a positive experience rather than a stressful one.


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## ali-s.j.

My kids frequently did things that fell into the category of "normal kid behaviour" but on occasion they overstepped the boundaries and needed to know that it was wrong, instead of the usual praising of good behaviour, and anyone who has lived with teenagers will know ......


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## Emma

Well thanks for ur opinion but my dog is certainly not stressed, and I certainly do not treat her as my worst enemy. Ur opinionis ur opinion and ur welcome to it as i am welcome to mine. As u will see I have had to do it only twice and problem has been solved. I find it offensive that u think I treat her as my worst enemy she is a well loved and well cared for dog. Emma x


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## doodlebug

ali-s.j. said:


> My kids frequently did things that fell into the category of "normal kid behaviour" but on occasion they overstepped the boundaries and needed to know that it was wrong, instead of the usual praising of good behaviour, and anyone who has lived with teenagers will know ......


i have one of those 



Emma said:


> Well thanks for ur opinion but my dog is certainly not stressed, and I certainly do not treat her as my worst enemy. Ur opinionis ur opinion and ur welcome to it as i am welcome to mine. As u will see I have had to do it only twice and problem has been solved. I find it offensive that u think I treat her as my worst enemy she is a well lobed and well cared for dog. Emma x


i dont think you treat her as your worst enemy at all its just really sad that so many people still use aversive training methods,but of course youre entitled to your opinion


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## M&M's mummy

doodlebug said:


> i have one of those
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think you treat her as your worst enemy at all its just really sad that so many people still use aversive training methods,but of course youre entitled to your opinion


I think a lot of trainers have followed the Ceasar Milan route with his "alpha rolling" and dominance techniques and "anyone" can set themselves up as a trainer which is shocking really.

I think it's always best to really check out your trainer and ask what qualifications they have etc... and like Doodlebug has recommend look at the APDT website for recommended trainers in your area would be a good starting place.


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## doodlebug

M&M's mummy said:


> I think a lot of trainers have followed the Ceasar Milan route with his "alpha rolling" and dominance techniques and "anyone" can set themselves up as a trainer which is shocking really.
> 
> I think it's always best to really check out your trainer and ask what qualifications they have etc... and like Doodlebug has recommend look at the APDT website for recommended trainers in your area would be a good starting place.


yes this is exactly so, and Cesar himself admits hes got no qualifications, and always has the disclaimer at the end of his show--- 'Not to try this at home'.


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## Nadhak

It is like having children - you get so much conflicting advice - we all parent differently because that works for us and our situation. It has driven me mad in the past as I have one very hyper child and one perfectly behaved - yet both brought up in the same home !
Same with our beloved cockapoos - we want to have a happy relationship with them and to achieve this they need to know our boundaries and learn right from wrong. They are all little characters with their own personalities!
I have just removed Treacle from my daughters leggings - she was screaming and crying - treacle thought "Hey she likes this game" and so dug her teeth in further!
I shocked her by hitting the ground next to her with a shoe and growling "NO - Bad girl"
She let go and ran to her bed - gave herself time out and then returned to my crying daughter to lick her better!
Not sure if it was right or wrong but it worked!
I just think folks its horses for courses - do what works for you xx


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## Dylansmum

doodlebug said:


> aw 'alpha rolling' will only intimidate her and make her more frustrated,its outdated and flawed.
> 
> if i were you i would enrol her in an APDT puppy class where you will be taught how to train her humanely http://www.apdt.co.uk/


Once again we have people stating an opinion as if it is gospel, and also without respect. There are different schools of thought all with valid perspectives and also many more polite ways of giving your point of view. Can we not learn from all the problems this forum has been having this week?


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## sharplesfamily

Dylansmum said:


> Once again we have people stating an opinion as if it is gospel, and also without respect. There are different schools of thought all with valid perspectives and also many more polite ways of giving your point of view. Can we not learn from all the problems this forum has been having this week?


Helen - I read this thread first thing this morning and it has been bothering me all day. I totally agree with you. Alfie_Sherry was asking for advice, Emma said what worked for her and now I bet she wish she hadn't bothered as the next thing she gets is an attack from Doodlebug.

There is no right or wrong way. We all have our own opinions. We ask for advice and people give it and then it's up to us what advice we use. We may feel passionately about something but that's no excuse to accuse someone of something and making them feel like they are a rubbish dog owner.

Respect and manners goes a long way...


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## doodlebug

i havent attacked anyone but i apologise if it came across that way, its just that all this alpha rolling, pack theory, dominance theory stuff is outdated, its long been disproved and discredited so it makes me sad when i hear people still using it on puppies when kind positive methods of training get even better results, my family dogs were Akita a breed known to be strong willed and independant, yet Shey our only male was exceptional in obedience (very rare for that breed), he was clicker trained using only positive reinforcement, im sorry i just cant understand why people choose aversive methods when positive methods work better and are fun and pleasant for the dog.

the pack theory has been Proved to be flawed, David Mech has long since put the record straight with his studies on wild wolves, wolves dont live in a society where individuals are looking for rank or status within the pack, and neither are dogs, theyre not trying to dominate us, if they were every dog ive owned would have been my boss lol


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## Cockapoodledoo

Doodlebug, I think there may be kinder and better ways to get your advice across. I think we may end up with people reluctant to ask questions if they think they might be shot down for it! 

Reading this thread I have a knot in my stomach thinking about how Emma might be feeling with your response. I'm sure you would want to 'sell' your training methods and possibly a better approach would be to suggest the person concerned tries a particular method of training which you have found successful. Slamming people down will only serve to offend and prevent anyone being open to your methods. So in a sense you might be shooting yourself in the foot?!

None of us are experts on here. Even our experienced breeders would probably say that they are still learning day by day. I'm interested in what you have to say but I am put off by how you treat people. 

So come on Doodlebug. I've picked up some useful stuff from you. Keep it coming but treat us owners with the same method - being positive and respectful rather than giving us the alpha treatment. 

Karen xx


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## doodlebug

oops sorry, i am trying hard, but i suppose im a bit of a straight talker and sort of say it as it is, but i really dont mean to offend, i think its because ive been involved in training dogs that ive got strong opinions on training and dog behaviour, plus having been involved with dog breeders i have formed my opinion 1st hand on what makes a good breeder and what makes a bad one.

But i will double, infact treble check my posts before i push the reply button, honest 

my apologies to Emma.


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## Alfie_Sherry

Thank youfor the advice given (from everyone I do appreciate it).

I'm being to think it's more than morning excitement, as it can happen anytime really. I am wondering if it could be a jealously thing as it often (but not always) happens when my youngest son is around and i'm interacting with him. 

To be honest it is really getting to me. Right now, the children (11,4 and nearly 3) are at the park and Alfie is wondering around being lovely. We've played with toys, been in the garden, tidied the kitchen  with no problems at all. I just start to dread the times I have to get up with him in the mornings. When he has hold of me there is no getting him off. I've tried the toy thing, he takes it for about 10 secs then is back onto my trouser leg again.

I've bought a Gwen Bailey book but it doesn't address the biting issue much, just says they do it for a reason and i'm struggling to see what the reason is. I stay calm / i've yelped / i've tried to walk away even though it does end in split trousers. 

Grrrr i'm so frustrated. Other than this he is lovely (although he doesn't like our 2 year old much!!)


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## Dylansmum

Alfie_Sherry said:


> Thank youfor the advice given (from everyone I do appreciate it).
> 
> I'm being to think it's more than morning excitement, as it can happen anytime really. I am wondering if it could be a jealously thing as it often (but not always) happens when my youngest son is around and i'm interacting with him.
> 
> To be honest it is really getting to me. Right now, the children (11,4 and nearly 3) are at the park and Alfie is wondering around being lovely. We've played with toys, been in the garden, tidied the kitchen  with no problems at all. I just start to dread the times I have to get up with him in the mornings. When he has hold of me there is no getting him off. I've tried the toy thing, he takes it for about 10 secs then is back onto my trouser leg again.
> 
> I've bought a Gwen Bailey book but it doesn't address the biting issue much, just says they do it for a reason and i'm struggling to see what the reason is. I stay calm / i've yelped / i've tried to walk away even though it does end in split trousers.
> 
> Grrrr i'm so frustrated. Other than this he is lovely (although he doesn't like our 2 year old much!!)


I'm afraid I'm not much of an expert on training, but I did want to reassure you that he will grow out of it. Dylan used to be a bit like that with my daughter only - (she's 25). In his case it was because she used to play fight with him so he saw her as a playmate and it was part of the game. She had to get stern with him and stop winding him up. I think it is a real puppy thing though, and I'm sure Alfie will calm down. I've always found Dylan very eager to please and sensitive to being told off, so the only thing I can suggest is to continue to make a clear distinction between his good behaviour and bad behaviour and hopefully he will try to please you. I hope it improves soon.


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## Alfie_Sherry

Thanks 

I tried a different approach this morning and he has been fine, until I had my son in my arms - then he went for the feet!! I dont think he likes the small boy much!


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## pauleady

Are you still having problems? Our puppy is crazy too !!! Sometimes he's lovely and calm, then other times he'll go like a stroppy teenager, bite, steal things and run off, chew things....all things he knows he shouldn't do. He used to be a good little puppy but seems to be getting more and more rebellious as he gets older. Sometimes I'll tell him to sit and he'll stand and ignore me keeping his head down to not make eye contact, other times he'll do every trick he knows. Can't stop him jumping up either.

I'm hoping this is all age related and as he gets older he will settle down. If not, I can see we're going to have real issues as my wife is not at all happy with him at the moment !!!!


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## DONNA

Im also having the same problems and its really getting me down,my puppies actually beginning to scare me he gets that angry towards me.


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## MichelleE

It will get better folks. Poppy was exactly the same between 11 and 16 weeks, and I think it was a combination of trying to find her place in the family (was worse with my youngest - 4 year old) and testing me to see what she could get away with. At first I was worried as she was quite scary, but she is the most wonderful, calm and obedient pet now. Give it time, and do the time-outs whenever it happens. I also did the 'hold' when she was really going for it, but only needed to a couple of times. Good luck!


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## curt3007

What's the hold, sorry to sound thick


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## lady amanda

we would ocasionally have to do a "hold" you kind of pin the dog down so that they are unable to move, it does not hurt them, you are just stoping them frlom being in controll, we too only had to do this maybe 3 times on Lady, some dogs it works on well, it just lets them know that you are stronger and in controll. I would be sitting on the floor and just hold her on her side for a minute for her to calm down...this was only when she got really crazy. I didn't like doing it but I do now have a well rounded and perfect pup.


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## MichelleE

Read on here a suggestion to gently hold the puppy's mouth closed until she pulls away when she is bitey.


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## lady amanda

That is another technique too...It works on lots of pups....LAdy would make us laugh when we did that as she would push her tongue out the front...so cute


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## MichelleE

Meant to also add gently holding the dog down until they relax then release. Tried both methods when things were desperate!


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## lady amanda

MichelleE said:


> Meant to also add gently holding the dog down until they relax then release. Tried both methods when things were desperate!


lol for us too! we were very desperate when we tried those out. but they did work. and it sounds mean when you are trying to describe it, but it really doesn't hurt them, and hurt isn't the intent at all.


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## curt3007

aw thankyou


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## mandym

Having just read this post i have to agree with Emma,for the first time i have had a similar problem with my american cocker pup,her older sister was the complete opposite but paisley is a right monkey growling and munching at your feet at every opportunity and it really hurts.She has also been doing it to the older dogs and i knew if i didnt do something they would only take so much and nothing else was working so the last time she did it i lay her down and gently held her there firmly saying NO and then let her go and it actually worked.I must admit to being a huge cesar fan and dont find his methods at all bullying,he really knows his stuff,trained or not trained,he has helped dogs that all other trainers had seen only fit for the big needle,in my eyes he is a really good guy that adores dogs xxx


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## lady amanda

I love Cesar too! and you are right his methods don't come across as bullying, just firm, and you have to think of it like you are a dog and how would the alpha dog teach others.


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