# Are we doing the right thing?



## popalina (Jan 31, 2013)

This post has been deleted as we are now satisfied with our choice of breeder and puppy. Thank you to all for your advice
Looking forward to collecting Rosie


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## susanb (Jan 19, 2012)

We had somethign slightly similar. We had "booked" a puppy from a local breeder who had said dad was KC registered mini-poodle, DNA tested etc etc etc. The puppies were born just before a Christmas and we were trying to arrange to go and visit them in amongst Christmas preparations as we had first choice! We had seen photos. I emailed them before our planned visit to say that I would like to see the paperwork for the dad on our visit. They later emailed me back to say that they had contacted the stud for the health testing certificate only to be told that he had not been DNA tested but only "eye-checked". It was not the breeder's fault - they had been "mis-led" too! We agonised for ages and then decided we could not go ahead without that health testing. It was just the nagging doubt and the fact that the stud dog's owner had "misled" the mum's owners ....and that just was enough to make us decide to look elsewhere.

The breeder may be very busy at this time......but seems odd that she has no pictures she could show you even.

Having said that - you need to make your own decision and you have to be comfortable with your decision.....and sadly nobody can really help you with that....you have to do what you think is best


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

...
This is tricky, head versus heart.
Is Rosie just going to be a pet? 
Are you absolutely sure you will have her spayed?
What if the worst happened and you discovered that she had a hereditory problem that might either cause her pain and discomfort and/or cost you a considerable amount to put right...
Probably Rosie will be fine, but make sure you have faced up to the what ifs...
All that said, my heart would probably win...


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## dmgalley (Aug 19, 2012)

I agree with Marzi. If you can give her a good and loving home and you know the risks involved and are willing to do what ever you must, I say do it. 
When I got Jake I knew I wanted a cockapoo because I fell in love with my friend's dog, but I did not know all that went with finding a good breeder. 
I got to see the parents and all the puppies. I have seen the grandparents and she had lots of very good references, but did not do any testing on her dogs. Jake is happy, healthy and well adjusted. I got insurance for him and and if we have to face something someday we will, but i will never regret getting him. 
(That said I do have to admit that for number two I went for someone who does all the testing.)


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Go with your gut instinct. It may well be that dad is not health checked, this could be a deal breaker for you, it depends how important it is to you. My instinct is the dad hasn't been health checked, if he had been the breeder would be falling over themselves to show you the paperwork.

You've been to visit several times and named the puppy and fallen in love. It would be very difficult to walk away now. How much are you paying for the puppy, if its top price I would be concerned. If the price is lower and reflects the amateur breeder, that may be different.

Maybe you can contact a local vet and ask their opinion.

It all boils down to trust and whether you are happy with the arrangement.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi, I realise I might sound harsh here but as lovely as I am sure your breeder is, I bet they are still charging a pretty penny for a puppy Cockapoo? I personally would only be happy paying the 'going rate' for a puppy from a DNA tested breeding pair. The more health tests the better but the DNA for the PRA eye disease is the absolute minimum I would expect and you are right, you do have to be so very careful as to exactly which eye test they have had as many are just BVA examined.
I know how hard it is to walk away from a puppy but buying from people breeding from non tested parents encourages them to keep breeding. It also does little to encourage them to step up their practices. I have recently been on a puppy search myself for a close family member and we walked away from 3 puppies that we initially showed interest in, it's hard to do but is so satisfying when you do find THE ONE and you and puppy have the best start possible. I realise health testing isn't the be all and end all but it is very important to ensure the future health of your new family member.
Good luck.


P.s without pictures and corresponding paperwork you really could be buying any cross. Sorry to sound overly suspicious but there are some out there that will sell a puppy as something it's not.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi, I am inclined to agree with Karen, I know for years people had bred their bitch with 'the dog down the road' with no health tests and usually those puppies have led long and healthy lives, but they were probably not charging the same sort of amount or even speaking about health tests. I really worry that there are too many people breeding for a bit of easy money these days, it is not something that should be done lightly - but these are my opinions and not necessarily yours. As others have said there is a good chance the puppy you have set your heart on would be fine - If the breeder can tell you the studs full KC name (and this is something that a breeder really should have found out if she wanted a KC registered stud), you can go on the KC website, look up health tests, put the name in and it tells you what health tests have been done. Of course you have no proof that it really is the name of the puppies dad but its somewhere to start. Good luck.


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## popalina (Jan 31, 2013)

*Thank you*

Thank you all for your replies. They have been very helpful. I have emailed the breeder again tonight asking for the papers and pictures. I have also asked for the email of the stud owner so I can get in touch direct. Lets see what reply I get! I've also asked for the stud's KC Reg name.
Lets hope she doesn't say that she hasn't received my email when I visit next week.
I'm getting a nasty feeling about it all now and have said we are not prepared to pay a large sum of money for a puppy with no details of her background.
Lets hope we get the papers or at least more information as I really do want to bring Rosie home and lavish her with love!


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

These situations are all too common and we had the same experience with our first dog in that when we asked for the eye test papers, it turned out that dad hadn't been DNA tested at all - a genuine mistake we were told - and that it was just the BVA ones. I almost pulled out but in the end decided to go ahead. Luckily the stud owner then DNA tested the poodle and he came back clear but I wouldn't buy from a situation like that again as it doesn't give you a good feeling throughout. Worst of all was that the mother turned out not to be a cockapoo either so you do need to be careful. x


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Let us know how you get on.


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Sorry to read this and I really do feel for you ... you really should see a photo of the stud used and have all the health testing certificates shown to you .....

You could go back and ask what type of health testing the stud has? this may encourage your breeder to send you more information. 

I appreciate how upsetting it will be to walk away... but you want the perfect puppy for your family and not a puppy that may go blind or suffer in the future. 

This type of breeding saddens me so much, as when I first began to research cockapoo breeding I followed many large and small breeders, the health testing was minimal although so much more was available at that time and way before.... having all conditions DNA tested for is ideal and for all breeding dogs ... hip and patellas testing can also be carried out but I have followed many litter and these conditions can still occur in puppies even when partents are tested for them, so not so conclusive as DNA testing, as hip and patella problems may not only genetic but may be caused by accidents, injuries, over/under walking, diet etc. 

I always look for a caring breeder, minimal litters for quality care, puppies raised in the home with love, good DNA health testing for both mum & dad ...


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## Jedicrazy (Apr 26, 2011)

I personally would walk away and indeed did this when a breeder couldn't show me paperwork for the DNA test. I didnt want to support the people who are just breeding their cockers because they want to cash in. I also didnt want a dog which could go blind prematurely. I had already been through a very serious health scare with Obi (at 5 months old) so I was determined to minimise as much risk as possible with Roo. I know I may seem harsh and that you have already met and started to bond with this puppy but you did ask and its just my personal view. Hopefully the puppy you choose will be in your life for the next 12-15 years or more so it's really important to be satisfied with your final choice. Good luck with whatever you decide


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## popalina (Jan 31, 2013)

*Update on Are we doing the right thing?*

Hi, Everyone
Thank you all for your comments and advice. I know we should probably look elsewhere for our much longed for puppy but "Rosie" is an adorable puppy and we feel we must try to give the "breeder" a bit more time to come up with the necessary papers. I am so grateful for all your comments and have read them time and time again.
Still can’t make our minds up. Heart seems to take over head every time!
I contacted the breeder by text and she replied straight away. (She has said that she’s not receiving my e-mails and doesn’t know why?!) Anyway she has now told us that she will get the owner of the stud dog to scan the documents to her and then she will forward them onto us. She also gave us the Stud's KC Reg Name. I have looked this up on google and KC site. I have seen a picture but this too is odd as there seems to be, two different pictures for the same name/dog. Bizarre?
One of my nagging feelings is, why doesn’t she have a copy of health check certificates from her first encounter with stud breeder and why doesn’t she have pictures for herself of the stud dog?. All seems very strange. I’m not a breeder but I know I would have pictures and information of the stud, that is potentially going to be the “Daddy” of my dogs puppies
She also said that she has been very busy (reason for delay in sending papers and picture) as this is her first time breeding and with 7 puppies, she doesn’t have much spare time! She said that if we don’t want to go through with it, she will refund our deposit.
Our final thoughts are, that we will visit next weekend as planned and make a decision then. We will be upfront with our questions and hope that she shows us all the documents needed. After all she is charging a lot of money for these puppies and they were advertised as having “KC Reg” “Dad” with an” eye check” certificate
So sorry, this is such a long story.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

On the kc website did you see the recorded health tests for the stud? They are freely available to find if you have the full kc name. It would put your mind at rest before the paperwork arrives.


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx


Here is the link, you just pop in the full kc name or number and all health tests will come up.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I wonder if some of the breeders (who are cashing in) just put 'KC Reg stud, health tested' on adverts as it is becoming more common to see that (good thing when genuine), then they hope people don't ask too much about it. If most purchasers were well informed and breeders were aware they couldn't get away with selling puppies without doing the work, health tests, socialising etc, then maybe less would breed just for cash, although to be honest it isn't much work to ensure all this is in place compared to actually looking after mum and pups.  Unfortunately it will continue when people keep falling in love with the cute pups and buying. I have a feeling you will get Rosie, as when you see her you will not be able to say no!, so I hope it turns out that you have just picked an un-organised breeder. I'm sure Rosie will be fine as statistically most pups are, good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## popalina (Jan 31, 2013)

Thank you Karen and Weller did what you advised and found the stud on the Register. Health check done 2009 so that has put our mind at rest on the health score, I think! Just need documentation of stud and a picture from the stud owner. We are going to visit in a few days so hopefully everything will be sorted and we can look forward to collecting Rosie. 
Thanks again to you all


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## Bish (Dec 12, 2012)

Hi I can only speak from our ownsad experience- we bought a cockapoo puppy from a breeder who advertised that she had done all the tests and that the puppy would be vet checked. We got there and I wished we had walked away as she had no papers nor had she been to the vets. We had travelled a long way and took the puppy. The puppy only survived 6 days following intensive vet treatment. I know this is very rare and is unlikely to happen to anyone but i would not trust a breeder without the right papers. We went on to buy a puppy from a fantastic breeder who had every test done on both parents with copies of all the documentation. We now have the most amazing little dog and all's well. Hope it works out for you. I will post some piccies of our gorgeous apricot poo who is called Tilly when I have some time!


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Bish, how are you getting on with Tilly?, pleased you now have what you wanted, can you say where you got Tilly from in the end?


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## Bish (Dec 12, 2012)

I got Tilly from Broadreach Dogs and Ann was amazing. She spent a long time with us going over the paperwork. She organised 4 weeks free insurance, gave us a puppy pack of food, a piece of the litter blanket (really smelly!), information for the first few weeks, she had worming and flea certificates, all the parents health tests and she had micro-chipped Tilly herself. She was really professional. This all reminds me I must send her a photo! 

Tilly is absolutely a fantastic puppy but I went through the difficult stages of feeling incredibly exhausted and wondering what we had taken on. It was only reading all the support on this forum, I knew that the difficult time would pass. Toilet training has been really hard. She did wee and poo in her crate overnight and I had to set the alarm to get up in the middle of the night to let her out, gradually extending it until she could last until morning. During the day, it has taken her until 20 weeks to really understand that she must go outside. She is incredibly fussy about her Royal Canin food but although I supplement it with cooked veg and meat from our leftovers (when we have it), I have decided that she is not going to starve herself, so I pick up the bowl after 10 mins if she doesn't want any. At the puppy classes she is the most bouncy puppy but when I want her to do the tricks, she is 'top of the class'! She spends the day in the office with us in her crate and when we have time we try to play with her. She has become a real family dog as our teenage daughters take her for a run when we get home and she gets lots of fuss from all their friends. My next task is to stop her from jumping up on people when she is excited to see them, but it is really difficult as they make a fuss of her. I try to get her to sit and she just shakes with excitement! I have become obsessed with watching 'Cesar Millan and It's Me or the Dog - trying to pick up training tips. All in all everything's great - Tilly is a work in progress to becoming a great dog, loved by everyone that meets her.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Really pleased for you, heard good things about Ann before. Tilly sounds a lot like Dudley, still working on the not jumping up at people, very excitable but when 'switched on' to training mode is really good. Oops hi-jacked original thread but was good to hear you had a lovely new pup.


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