# Gosh I never knew....



## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

Even while researching cockapoos I don't remember ever coming across anything negative about them & the fact that they are a cross-breed.

Since getting Dexter I keep seeing arguments left right & centre !!! Has anyone seen the who-haa going on on the Dogs Today Facebook page - about half way down the page. Someone has asked a question about cavapoos & you'd have thought they were proposing world war 3 !!!

I simply didn't know this feeling existed & I'm quite perplexed by it.


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## karen pearce (Nov 1, 2011)

absoulutly disgusting,the attitude of some people,started to read some of the posts,but stopped after a few. i have 2 pedigree dogs,and my 2 girls,and to be honest,they are all equal. xbreed dogs are just as good as a pedigree. some of those people on that forum should'nt be allowed to post coments like some of them have,disgusting.


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## Mrs Hippiechick (Jul 26, 2011)

I've just read that thread, how sad that so many people who claim to "love" dogs are so angry and hateful towards other dogs that don't conform to their standards.

Surely, a dog is a dog and we them regardless of what they are? I love my scruff-bag puppy and wouldn't change for all the tea in China


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## jaimebpa1 (Nov 8, 2011)

I didn't know about this either! I've known what a cockapoo is for years now. I didn't see them often, but they were around even when i was a teenager. When we decided to get a puppy it waas one of the dogs I wanted to research. A couple of months ago when someone would ask me what kind of dog i was getting I'd say "cockapoo". Now when someone asks me what kind of dog she is I say "poodle and cocker spaniel cross". I'd just rather avoid any negative comments. Not that i was getting a lot of nasty comments, but a lot of snide remarks that were passive aggressive.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

The bad attitude towards Cockapoos and the other Cross breeds has been long running - it does stem from the "Purist Pedigree Elite" and the Show World - however they seem to enjoy the attack as opposed to getting their own breed in order !
Then there are those who are jealous (and I genuinely mean "jealous" ! - Yes we have heard from and seen many people who have met our dogs and loved them and fussed them and have cuddled them - only to whisper that it wouldn't go down well with their circle of friends !!!) and as such they will always have a niggle whenever they can - as it makes them feel better !!
In 5 years of breeding Cockapoos we have only ever felt the angst that purists have for our little Cross-breds in the past 6 months or so - for us (JD) in particular it started with a post to Jemima Harrison (Pedigree Dogs Exposed) last Summer about the litters we had. The fact that Jemima came back with nothing but positive comments about us helped - but it did not stop a few from trying to have a dig whenever they got the chance. There are lots who will tell of stories of a few that turn their noses up at Cockapoos - and some saying how silly the name is - but no-one can have a dig at the dogs themselves !
Even angst appears within the ranks of Cockapoo lovers too - but Hey - that's Life - but we are meant to be on the same side ?!


Me - I'm totally encamped in "Team Cockapoo" - and I Love them - so all we need to do is............

...................Spread the Love !!!! X

Stephen x


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## alvinsimon (Feb 22, 2012)

*It is embarassing to be so naive*

Like some of you have written, I knew nothing about the designer dog controversy before I got a Cockapoo. 

Then I joined a dog forum. Stupidly mentioned Simon's breeder's web site. Next thing I know the breeder is getting threatening phone calls. Had to shut down the post.

I will never understand the hatred some people express toward some of the most lovable creatures in this world. 

What very few of them seem to understand is that ALL of today's breeds have been cross-bred from wolves!


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## EvaClareEva (Oct 11, 2011)

The thing about cockapoos is they have the best natures with children,adults,other dogs all they want to do is please you and be friendly to other dogs the amount of other breeds I've come across who growl and snarl at my dog when all she wants to do is play!!! You wont go wrong with a Cockapoo xx


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## Bodger (Oct 9, 2011)

Just had a quick look they certainly are a bunch of smug self-satisfied individuals. Some sweeping generalisations too. I read the post that said if you want a mongrel the dog rescue places are stuffed with them. In my experience dog rescues are full of staffies and retired greyhounds (nothing against them) but many dogs were not recommened for families with young children - fair enough but not much good if you have children and want a dog.

I shall ignore them on that website and enjoy my lovely little cockapoo.


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## DB1 (Jan 20, 2012)

I haven't looked and don't think I will. I think some is ignorance, that a lot of people don't realise that most cockapoo breeders are just as dedicated as pedigree breeders to breed healthy, well adjusted pups. (more so the health compared to a lot of the pedigree breeds but plenty has already been said about that) I think lots of people think most cockapoo pups have just been bred as it seems like a fashion at the moment. When I tell people I am getting a cockapoo pup I do tell them how much research I did into various breeds and that the cockapoo has been proved to be a wonderful dog which is why they have been bread for over 50 years and that the hearing dogs people have been using them as they are great to train with a great temperament. No one has managed to say anything negative after that!! it is a shame though that I feel the need to educate people just so that they don't have the chance to say anything bad.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

I've said it before - but Pure Bred Show Pedigree people certainly let "Arrogance" overshadow "Ignorance" !

Their's is a world of dogs - created, directed and populated by people so blinkered that they don't actually care (and some don;t even know) what happens behind "closed doors".

The TV program "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" and the subsequent Part 2 ! - did open a few more eyes than expected ! - which for Cockapoos is a good thing - as the program kept harking back to the fact that those breeds needed to "go back to basics" ! The best thing about Cockapoo in GB at present - is that we are at the basics ! - hence why I have strived to set-up the "Cockapoo Club of GB" with such a devoted and as cross-sectioned a team as possible.

I'd even add - that without the desire to promote "Cockapoo" as the perfect pet - there would not be the ILMC forum - nor JoJo's blog - nor Embee's blog - nor the Cockapoo Owners Club !!!

Stephen x


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

Jeez if I were that lady posting to ask advice to find a half decent breeder, I think would now be looking for a cat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

There will always be those that believe there are enough pedigree options available that new crosses do not need to be created and those that always think that everyone should get a rescue dog. Sometimes it feels like that people refuse to take into account that not everyone can consider a rescue or that not everyones fancies one of the non moulting pedigree options. I looked into both rescues and pedigrees. I rejected the rescue option because I childmind and by wanting a non moulting dog I really narrowed down my options. 

Since getting into the world of dogs I have been amazed at some of the angst but it has opened my eyes to a lot of what goes on and some of the discussions I have followed and joined in have been educational and interesting. You will always get some who just argue for the sake of it though.

It is sad that even in 'Cockapoo world' there is nastiness that goes on. You would think that with all the other problems we have to deal with people would not be so childish.


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## Fifi (Aug 11, 2011)

It's a shame how often these negative comments come up, I took Gaia to a grooming van to have her feet trimmed. The groomer (a red setter breeder) said to one of the dog trainers "they worry me these cross breeds", so I asked "what worries you?" (in a very polite way) "Oh, the lack of health checks etc". What a generalisation!! I assured her that I have copies of the test certificates for Gaia's parents, that she had been vet checked and pre vacinated and I had her 'pedigree' "Oh at least thats some thing", silly me forgot to ask what checks she did on her dogs


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Fifi said:


> It's a shame how often these negative comments come up, I took Gaia to a grooming van to have her feet trimmed. The groomer (a red setter breeder) said to one of the dog trainers "they worry me these cross breeds", so I asked "what worries you?" (in a very polite way) "Oh, the lack of health checks etc". What a generalisation!! I assured her that I have copies of the test certificates for Gaia's parents, that she had been vet checked and pre vacinated and I had her 'pedigree' "Oh at least thats some thing", silly me forgot to ask what checks she did on her dogs


That's exactly it !!! 
I do not think many (if any) do exactly know what their own Certificate says !!!

It's certainly a mad world - when Your dog is a "Cockapoo" - most likely bred from a Cocker and a Poodle - - - - and their's is "Pure Bred".........but could have been Mother to Son !!!!!

S x


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> I've said it before - but Pure Bred Show Pedigree people certainly let "Arrogance" overshadow "Ignorance" !
> 
> Their's is a world of dogs - created, directed and populated by people so blinkered that they don't actually care (and some don;t even know) what happens behind "closed doors".
> 
> ...


I hate to be the negative voice here but I am afraid that I am not sure that the Cockapoos 'basics' is adequate. Basic health testing if at all, mis-sold on hybrid vigour, being perfect for allergy sufferers and also being produced by puppy farmers and bybs out to make a few quid out of their pet. In addition to this there are too few stud dogs being used which will result in a narrow gene pool for further generations. Apart from the fact that we haven't (yet) had to resort to inbreeding and thankfully aren't under any constraints of 'breed standards', I don't see the breeding of Cockapoos is any better than pedigrees. There are good and bad of both types and just as I don't like to see Cockapoo breeders being universally slated I also think it is wrong to do this to pedigree breeders. 

I have only just caught up with PDE2 due to my work load and it was truly disgraceful the way the dogs shown had been bred and how people within those circles bury their head in the sand at the detriment to the welfare of the dogs. However we mustn't kid ourselves that our Cockapoos are being bred perfectly because they are not.


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Sezra said:


> I hate to be the negative voice here but I am afraid that I am not sure that the Cockapoos 'basics' is adequate. Basic health testing if at all, mis-sold on hybrid vigour, being perfect for allergy sufferers and also being produced by puppy farmers and bybs out to make a few quid out of their pet. In addition to this there are too few stud dogs being used which will result in a narrow gene pool for further generations. Apart from the fact that we haven't (yet) had to resort to inbreeding and thankfully aren't under any constraints of 'breed standards', I don't see the breeding of Cockapoos is any better than pedigrees. There are good and bad of both types and just as I don't like to see Cockapoo breeders being universally slated I also think it is wrong to do this to pedigree breeders.
> 
> I have only just caught up with PDE2 due to my work load and it was truly disgraceful the way the dogs shown had been bred and how people within those circles bury their head in the sand at the detriment to the welfare of the dogs. However we mustn't kid ourselves that our Cockapoos are being bred perfectly because they are not.



Sarah - "Here Here!!!" - but "basics' here is totally down to the fact that we are lucky enough to be entering into "Cockapoo" at ground level...........so what we say and do - will make a difference on-going.
We don't have generation after generation after generation to look back into - and I'd certainly suggest you undertake more in-depth research into "Hybrid Vigour" than you currently give it credit for.

And - I've never heard of a Puppy Farm / BYB making money out of their own "Pet" !?!

I'd hope that we would never resort to in-breeding full-stop ! So am not totally comfortable with your "yet" terminology !!!??!

F1 does appear to be high on people's choices (at present) - only when someone wants to breed their own "pet" does the F2, F3, F4 etc come into real effect - so again - "information" should help support that breeder (whether Home; Hobby or Licensed) - which is totally why the Cockapoo Club of GB has been set-up - to provide an Official Registry against which such pairings can be assessed !

I totally accept that a restricted 'stud' gene-pool could cause long term damage - and I equally accept that a "related stud" pool could make it smaller - but for once open your eyes and try and SEE what is already out there - it's a much much bigger place than those that post on here !!!!

Stephen X


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

But we're trying Sarah, aren't we? It's still early days in evolution terms, and there are many of us striving to ensure health tested, well cared for dogs parent healthy puppies.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Jukee Doodles said:


> Sarah - "Here Here!!!" - but "basics' here is totally down to the fact that we are lucky enough to be entering into "Cockapoo" at ground level...........so what we say and do - will make a difference on-going.
> We don't have generation after generation after generation to look back into - and I'd certainly suggest you undertake more in-depth research into "Hybrid Vigour" than you currently give it credit for.
> 
> I agree, and I have read into it but what I am referring to is when people have used it as an excuse not to health test. It does still happen and a lot of puppy buyers still believe this.
> ...


Thank you for the advice Stephen, I have always kept an open mind and open eyes , I apppreciate that I maybe on here a fair bit but I am aware that not all Poo related stuff is on this forum! However, maybe you would like to tell me what I am missing, I am intrigued and hate to feel like I am missing out on stuff!


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## caroleb (Feb 14, 2012)

I had a look at the comments on fb after reading this thread and, wow, there are some angry arrogant people out there. 

Silly me. I didn't realise that there was a crossbreed hiarachy. I feel much better informed now I know that a dog is apparently only a "real" or "acceptable" crossbreed if it has either been bred indiscriminently or accidentally by people who didn't bother to neuter their pets or ended up in a rescue centre because it's previous owner couldn't be bothered to look after it. Of course those people who have their rescue crossbreeds don't chose them by looks or temperament or size do they? Of course they do, they make the same choices we do when choosing a dog. If they had to take the first dog offered to them by the rescue centre whatever it was and whatever problems it had, do you think as many of them would have rescue dogs? I don't!!

I for one am happy with the choice I have made to buy a cockapoo puppy which I think is the right one for me and hubby - if I meet any of these silly people when I am out with my dog and they say anything to me, I'm sure I will have a few responses up my sleeve and I will teach Chester to wee on their feet whilst they are making their silly statements!

I feel like I should sign this "Angry from Hornchurch"!


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## puppylove (Jul 25, 2011)

Hello Stephen I have just read some of the posts on Facebook and I am disgusted at the vitriol against crossbreeds. In the past when I have had dogs only a "pedigree" dog would do but somewhere along the line things have changed - probably after watching a certain documentary. I myself always said that my next dog would be a cockapoo after seeing one on Animal Planet about twelve years ago. I never wavered in my choice to get a poo as I wanted a smart, person orientated dog. The "poo" haters almost imply that we have no free will and independent thought and that we are somehow duped into getting a cockapoo by cunning breeders. If there was no demand for cockapoos then none would be available and I imagine pedigree dog breeders are pretty upset that we are choosing "mongrels" over what they have to offer. I also feel that many old breeds are not so relevant in today's world as they are not used for the purpose intended for them. The cockapoo has no down sides as far as I am concerned, but then I am biased.


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## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

Just remember everyone, every single avenue has those that are insanely crazy zealots, and on the other side, those that are wayyyyyy too much. And every single subject has some sane, down to earth, likable people. 

I have meet some AMAZING show people. They can rock! Or they can dye dogs nose to make it more breed standard, or surgically cut out a white patch ect. :rage: Not all purebreeds are screwed. Last time I checked, both the poodle and the cocker are doing great as a breed. Some Cockers do need tighter skin, but hey, better then a Neapolitan mastiff lol.

I find that mix breed breeders are by far less likely to show or test for even the basics around here. 

What I'm trying to say is, be careful about generalizations.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Enneirda. said:


> Just remember everyone, every single avenue has those that are insanely crazy zealots, and on the other side, those that are wayyyyyy too much. And every single subject has some sane, down to earth, likable people.
> 
> I have meet some AMAZING show people. They can rock! Or they can dye dogs nose to make it more breed standard, or surgically cut out a white patch ect. :rage: Not all purebreeds are screwed. Last time I checked, both the poodle and the cocker are doing great as a breed. Cockers do need tighter skin, but hey, better then a Neapolitan mastiff lol.
> 
> ...


My Cocker doesn't need tighter skin!


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## Jon Buoy (Sep 3, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> My Cocker doesn't need tighter skin!


I think Enneirda was making a generalisation


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

That is something I had noticed when grooming Daisy that her skin was quite loose. I just thought it was a dog thing tbh never ever having groomed a dog until having her I have never needed to look at one so closely!


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

I read the thread on FB yesterday and i think alot of what they seem to be cross about (because thats how they come across angry!!) is to do with how much Cockapoo's cost.
Personally i think people do not part with that amount of cash lightly,so they will research and they will visit different breeders and they will really think hard about looking after this dog for the next 15 years.Yes you may on occasion see cockapoo's at the rescue centres but very rarely.


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## Salfordnurse (May 4, 2011)

I've just read that thread and what a horrible thread it was. I had to post my thoughts on the matter as it really riled me.

Thought i'd give you a preview of what i posted, it will probably stoke the fire but I love my Cockapoo and thought an other owners opinion should be made 

*Here's what i put:*

I was going to join this page, but after reading some of the comments made by what I'm guessing are supposed dog lovers I don't think I'll bother. Im sure just buy reading the above comments that I can guess which of you will probably say good riddance we don't want you here, and I'll bet someone tries to delete this comment. If you honestly think that a dog from pedigree parents is any better than a happy health cross then I feel so sorry for you. It harks back to Nazi Germany and any one who didn't conform to the ideals of the aryan race. If a black mother and a white father had a child, would that child be any less thought of than one of two parents of the same race? If they did there would be uproar. If you read any text on evolution animal's our self included evolve and change over the years. It would take an individual who is ignorant and blinkered to the possibility that thousands of years ago the animals you now refer to as pedigree we the result of a liaison between two different breeds? 
No animals lineage is going to be 100% perfect with no deviations. It's these changes and mutations that allow animals to continue to survive. If the result of a cross breed is mated with another cross. Eg a Cockapoo and a Cockapoo does that make it's off spring a cross breed? Who is to say in a few thousand years that some of the so called pedigree animals will have given way to what you call the cross breed. You need to remember that dogs are original wild animal and are a Species in their own right. If the were wandering around the planes of Mexico I very much doubt that they would be picky to look for another dog of exactly the same breed. Reproductive organs of animals will not allow procreation where it's wrong (e.g. no matter how hard you try you cat breed your self a cat dog)
While I agree that rescues are places to look for animals, but a rescue dog may not fit into everyones life or home, and a puppy may be the way to go. If it's the issue of breeding for the sake of money theres probably hundreds of Puppy farms out there offering KC registered dogs. 
This is my opinion, as what you put is yours. But statements like those mentioned for someone who has come asking for advice and support from supposed animal lovers is shocking and down right pathetic. Ask why they want the breed and help them with information to have an informed choice about the animal they want.
All I can say is I love my Cockapoo and I'll wager that her parents lineage is a lot more pure than most of your's!!

maybe I went a bit to far but hey ho

Simon and Poppy


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## Jukee Doodles (Apr 5, 2011)

Salfordnurse said:


> I've just read that thread and what a horrible thread it was. I had to post my thoughts on the matter as it really riled me.
> 
> Thought i'd give you a preview of what i posted, it will probably stoke the fire but I love my Cockapoo and thought an other owners opinion should be made
> 
> ...



Hats Off to you Simon - Respect !
Very well put !

Stephen X


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Way to go Simon :hug:


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

Often these type of debates bring out the stereotypical statements pertaining to both cockapoos and their owners.

Some comments are justified towards us and others are just petty and at times can be nasty. The one that seems to be bounded about is this constant need to go on about the "name" and the other common one is to say if you want a cockapoo get a rescue.

Would be far easier if instead of constant round of debates about the same old - same old people worked together to ensure the best breeding practices and welfare of dogs is the same regardless of whether a pedigree or cross.

Both deserve the very best after all without purebreeds we wouldn't have our cockapoos, so we can't make stereotypical statements about the pedigree people either, as there are good and bad in both camps.

It isn't so much ( though for some it is) about whether a pedigree or crossbreed that people want that cause such debates but more of why they are bred i.e the reason and how they are bred etc....... and how they are advertised for sale etc......... that seem to be at the heart of a lot of it.


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## Janev1000 (Oct 4, 2011)

Sezra said:


> That is something I had noticed when grooming Daisy that her skin was quite loose. I just thought it was a dog thing tbh never ever having groomed a dog until having her I have never needed to look at one so closely!


Biscuit has this too!! But at 6 month's of age I'm torn between it being growing space or plain old puppy fat - although ribs easily felt! I can grab quite a handful around the back of his neck!

Great answer Simon! - you also covered exactly what I was thinking about a black person producing children with a white person.


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## Jon Buoy (Sep 3, 2011)

M&M's mummy said:


> It isn't so much ( though for some it is) about whether a pedigree or crossbreed that people want that cause such debates but more of why they are bred i.e the reason and how they are bred etc....... and how they are advertised for sale etc......... that seem to be at the heart of a lot of it.


Very well said.

There also seems to be a school of thought that some people have that says my choice of dog is right and if you choose something else then you're wrong. Almost like a football supporter who only cheers for their team rather than applauding good play on both sides.


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## designsbyisis (Dec 27, 2011)

The thing is - everyone is entitled to hold an opinion & express it but what shocked me was the way things were said - unbelievably harsh and hurtful. It just makes me sad for people that they think its ok to present themselves like that. 

PS - as a lady who seems to be hurtling through her 40s, my skin could do with being a little tighter too


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: (sssssh me too!)


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## Enneirda. (Mar 5, 2010)

My first post looks so weird. It's the perfect sign that one should never ever post at 2 am. It's so scatter brained and loose... eek. I'm going to forget that thing now, thanks.

Ali, I didn't mean all. Typo I fixed. Not all cockers have too much skin. But some do, and most around here. Big jowls, rolling dewlaps, hanging brows, rolls around the tail. I hate it frankly lol. To some it's fine, it's bred for ect. But for me, so no way. And I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have something to do with the very common ear infections, staph infections ect with a lot of them down here. But that was a dumb point, no real reason for it.

In the later part of my first post I believe I was trying to make a reply to this, mostly: "Which for Cockapoos is a good thing - as the program kept harking back to the fact that those breeds needed to "go back to basics" ! The best thing about Cockapoo in GB at present - is that we are at the basics "

I didn't get how a cocker x poodle is more "back to basics" then a poodle or cocker. Poodles and cockers can breed naturally, run wild, play fetch, sleep without snoring, actually have brains, usually good hips, and eyes that don't pop out. Their pups are much the same, no real changes. Unlike the dalmation, frenchy, cavalier ect, neither of these breeds requires outcrossing to fix anything.

I can understand someone wanting literally a flat coat poodle like my 'Lo nearly is though. Or a less shedding cocker with some extra brains tossed in. I just don't like the idea that a poodle x cockers is helping anything past a f1's chance of hybrid vigor, which won't even last.


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

Friend of mine wanted a Cavapoo could not afford one so went for a yorkie poo cross advertised online. We drove 180 miles from south devon to south wales to be met by a breeder who could not get rid of us quickley enough! She vaguely gesticulated to a group of dogs saying that were the pups parents. I have no idea what my friend paid but it would have been well over the odds. Fortunatley the pup has now got a forever home but it made me very sceptical of researcing puppies on the internet. I have to say I am 100% happy with my Breeders Online search and will get poo two from same breeder. Buyer beware is very important take a deep breath then decide!


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