# Usual morning walk turns nasty



## Clairasol (Sep 8, 2011)

God, I'm still shaking..Archie has just been attacked by a staffie.

We were on our usual off lead morning walk, baby in pushchair, Madison running along the side when another mummy with her young child in a push along bike came towards us with her Staff running off lead also. Archie did the normal, turned to look, listened to me telling him to wait (meaning he is not to go anywhere!) and then ran towards the dog when the staff came towards him. I would normally put him back on the lead if we came across a staff, purely because I am slightly unsure of them and frightened of the fact that their jaws are so strong. However as his owner hadn't done the same and had a small child with her and was making no attempt to recall him I assumed he was friendly  Anyway they were playing ok, the staff was jumping up at me and seemed friendly but then it all turned. Archie lay down to surrender and the Staff pinned him down on his back and started growling. Archie started crying and I pulled the staff off him (god they are strong!!!) The women was still walking down the path way rather leisurely. Once she had caught up I let the staff go and he literally pounced on Archie again and was very aggressive. Archie was crying so much and when I managed to pull the staff off him he limped off crying. The women just stood and watched saying, 'oh, he's never done that before, I don't know why he's being like that'! I told Madison who was now standing on the back of the push chair to stay there and checked poor scared Archie over (no holes or blood thankfully) I noticed the women had put the dog on the lead. She was still letting him lunge forward on a long lead and had not told him off but said I'm sorry I worried you about your children and went on to tell me how friendly the dog is and she has no probs with him being with her small child and gave the lead to her child saying this is how they walk with the child holding the dog whilst she pushes the bike.

I was still shocked and shaking at this point and just had no words. I eventually asked how old the dog was(and I have to say he was a stunnnig blue / grey colour and lovely looking). She said he was 2.5yrs and I said Archie was only nearly 6 months...her response ' well that's why it happened then. He has no dog Etiquette so did not realise when play turns to something more'. I was so angry and replied that I had to pull her dog off mine because he had been pinned down and her dog had got agressive and started growling.

Now, as far as I am aware Archie didn't do anything wrong and actually surrendered by lying down. I am not just being an over protective mummy here and thinking he is perfect as I know that sometimes he does get too playful with other dogs and bugs them but this time I am totally sure he didn't and the play was totally equal on both sides until the staff pinned him down.

Archie is currently curled up in a ball on the sofa fast asleep which is totally unheard of at this time of day and he only had a 20 min walk which no where near wears him out, and I am left thinking, Is it Archies fault for having 'no dog etiquette', should I have put him on the lead or done something different?


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Oh dear Claire what an awful morning for you. 

I don't think this was your fault. I must admit, I do put Daisy on a lead if I see an unknown dog coming but if they are off lead I presume that they must be ok so don't tend to worry.

I am glad to hear that Archie was ok, I don't think it was his etiquette, best thing is to get him out there again meeting some nice friendly dogs as soon as possible.

:hug:


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

You poor thing, I am so glad you the children and Archie are ok. Thing is doggy etiquette or not, Archie was submissive by lying on his back and I would say it takes a dog with very poor dog manners to turn aggressive to a submissive pup! I wonder if it was Archie's cries which made him turn. A squeaking, fluffy puppy laying on the floor can provoke a strong prey instinct in some dogs.
The staff's owner was at fault here and proceeded to underline that fact by handing over control of the dog to a young child, just how stupid can you get!!
It is worth reporting to the dog warden............nothing will be done as it is a dog on dog attack but its always worth having on record if there are more incidents.
Glad you are all ok, a big glass of wine tonight I think.


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## Tressa (Aug 31, 2010)

OMG Don't know what I would have done in that situation - it is an ever present fear when Teddy is off the lead that he might be attacked. Thank goodness Archie is not badly hurt. What an experience for you and him. Hope he gets over it quickly.


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## Dylansmum (Oct 29, 2010)

Claire, that's really awful and I know just how you feel because Dylan was badly attacked by a staffie when he was 4 months old. It's really upsetting for both you and Archie, but I'm really glad that no bad damage was done. I'm no dog expert but I think there is something about the scent that a young pup gives off that confuses older dogs and pups definitely seem more likely to be attacked than when they are older. Find some nice friendly dogs for Archie to walk and play with asap to make sure that he is not affected too much by the attack. As Dylan got older, he stopped doing the submissive roll-over and started just lying down if a large dog approached him. This seemed to work well in avoiding any aggression, and I also got him neutered because I believe that neutered males are less likely to be the target of aggression.
If I were the woman you met, I would definitely not be comfortable leaving my child with that Staffie. It obviously has aggressive tendencies.
Take care and don't fret that it was your fault - you did nothing wrong.


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## Rufini (Sep 9, 2011)

Poor Archie  Sounds to me like the Staffie had no doggie etiquette not the other way round!


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## JoJo (Mar 2, 2011)

Claire .. I feel sick for you .... sending you a hug and of course a cockapoo cuddle for Archie ...


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## claire71 (Jan 9, 2012)

How awful, for you, your little girl and Archie. I'm glad Archie isn't injured and hope you're all able to put this incident behind you by meeting more friendly dogs and responsible owners. It makes me shudder to think what could happen if that Staffie turns on the owner's child or someone elses. 
Best wishes to you all xx


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Claire how awful ,i always worry about these things happening you'd be amazed at how many owners buy a puppy and dont do any kind of socialising with them when puppies or indeed any training classes.

Its hard but try to see it as a one off and dont let it stop you and Archie going on lovely walks together.


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Claire, what a terrible experience. I am always more wary around Staffies - I know it's not fair as most of them will be lovely but with all the bad press that
surrounds them it hard not to be nervous.
I'm sure you are all a bit shaken but I'm glad there is no permanent damage done..I hope you can avoid this dog in future.


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## Nadhak (Jun 4, 2011)

Poor Claire and Archie - my greatest fear when out walking is to come across a dog that can turn nasty!
We have a terrier type dog in the village that is nasty to puppies [as Helen mentioned about some dogs confused by puppy smells & behaviour] It once attacked Treacle whilst she was on lead and it was roaming the village. the owner apologised and said he is lovely to dogs but awful to puppies - irresponsible of them to allow him to roam knowing he has this tendency !
Hope Archie is ok - can you find sociable dogs to walk with to restore his confidence?
HUGS xxx


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## mandym (Jun 5, 2011)

Omg how awful!! Archie certainly didnt do anything wrong,it makes me so angry when owners of dogs who attack put the blame on the other dog,regardless of what etiquette any dog may have,the staffieshould not be behaving in this manner and i will bet it wasnt the first time he had done that,big huge hugs to archie xxx


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## Clairasol (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your kind words. I hope something good can come from it and I hope in my heart of hearts that it has shown the women that she must never trust the dog, no matter how nice natured it is with her child. It just proves that it can turn and next time it might be her child. I will definately be more wary when we are out however I am not going to let it ruin our walks, although we might go somewhere different for while or a different time as the women said she goes that route everyday!!!

Archie seems to have recovered fully and is back to his lively nutty self. He is certainly enjoying all the little extra treats he's been receiving since we returned from the walk.(Guilty mum syndrome - although thank you for putting my mind at ease on all counts).

Hopefully next time I get 5 minutes to start a thread it's on a nicer subject. Have to admit my first thought was ' oh my god, get on ILMC and see what they think'...you guys are great. (Not sure about the steel toe caps though  )


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

This is my worst nighmare having had a terrier savaged it takes ages to get over it. The staffie owner sounds as if she thinks if she ignores the behaviour it isn't happening! My pet hate is people who think their dog can do no wrong and 'is only playing' without considering the feelings of other owners and continue to do exactly what they want.


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## axl the cockerpoo (Sep 29, 2010)

staffies are fair game. Not met one owner yet, who understands that if their dog has "dog on dog" issues it means keep the thing on a lead then, not keep my dog inside.

tigers are nice to look at - wouldn`t want to own one of them either.


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## pops (Aug 12, 2011)

I really do feel for you! Tilly got attacked by two grey hounds a few months ago and interesting enough that owner also said they had never done this before. I am sorry but an older dog should never attack a submissive puppy! Tilly still barks now when we see a greyhound. I hope you are all ok.


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## EvaClareEva (Oct 11, 2011)

That is your worst nightmare come true we had a gshepard dog run up to us barking and growling chasing my dog who was on the lead and the women said the same oh he's never done it before and it's true it knocks your confidence but why should we keep our dogs in I carry a pet corrector spray now it sounds a loud hiss I also saw on Alan titmarsh show that if your dog is being attacked then get your coat and throw it over your dog so the aggressor dog hopefully grabs that xx


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## mariag (Jun 19, 2011)

Claire, glad that you & Archie are OK.
After Oakley's experience on Saturday found out that a lurcher was attacked a couple of days ago by an off lead Staffie cross that drew blood. Apparantly the male owner just walked off!!!!!


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Dont let it put you off letting him off lead ,also you will feel nervous at first but it does help in the long run,prehaps have a few walks with some friends and their dogs first .Buddy was set on in October by two greyhounds which scared me half to death and Buddy i think and i really worried afterwards but i want Buddy to be a friendly very socialized dog so you do have to take a leap of fath and believe most dogs and owners are really nice .


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## mum2bobs (Jun 23, 2010)

How horrible! Bobs was attacked by a Welsh Border Collie a while ago and to be honest it made me very wary when I take him out. Someone mentioned a pet corrector spray? Can anyone give any info on these and if they are effective? I would prefer a taser to be truthful but maybe that's a step too far


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

please dont brandish all staffs with the same brush, i know staffs who i would trust with kids and dogs, as well as staffs who i wouldnt trust with a toy. however i also know some cockers, and more lahasas that i would i dont trust any which way. 


if im honest your description doesnt sound like an atack as such, beleve me you would know it if it was an atack. it sounds more dominance and the staff being too rugh. dogs growl when they play together and some dogs sound worse than others. 

i agree the womans reaction was out of order.

get him out and around other dogs. glad your wee man is ok.


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## katycat (Sep 30, 2011)

Seems to me that there is a thread running through this that a lot of Staffie's are not being controlled correctly. Griff was bitten by a Staffie pup a couple of weeks ago as was I. Although I have friends who have two Staffie's and more lovely dogs you could not meet but they are well trained. It just goes to show no matter what breed of dog we own or know, at the end of the day they are all dogs and should never be trusted 100%


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Interestingly, at a training day I attended at Wood Green Animal Shelter recently with CCGB we were told that they now have more Staffies in for rehoming than any other breed .....one has to question whether breeders are breeding for temperament, and why they are continuing to breed .....


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

There are numerous reasons why Staffies are in rescues ranging from BYB's pumping them out to raise money to buy their latest must haves or teenagers etc..thinking it is fun to breed their pets and therefore we see loads of puppies in freeads etc...people don't want to buy so end up in rescues or people buy on a whim and dog ends up in rescue.

People whom cannot cope with the stigma attached to owning such a breed, and people who cannot no longer afford to keep dogs etc... or those whom get bored of the dog.. etc..........


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## Pollypiglet (Oct 22, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> Interestingly, at a training day I attended at Wood Green Animal Shelter recently with CCGB we were told that they now have more Staffies in for rehoming than any other breed .....one has to question whether breeders are breeding for temperament, and why they are continuing to breed .....


I suspect the demand for 'status' dogs is high enough for this to continue. Sadly before I got Hattie I looked into rehomeing a dog but the overwhelming breeds were bulldog types and crosses with 'issues'. I feel very sorry for those who breed responsibly as everyone can seem to be tarred with the same brush which is unfortunate as there are loads good dogs of all breeds around.


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

"My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the '70s they blamed Dobermans, in the '80s they blamed German shepherds, in the '90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the pit bull."

Cesar Millan


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

The only common factor linking all these 'dangerous' breeds is the human species.............so who does that make dangerous, I don't think its the dogs!


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## axl the cockerpoo (Sep 29, 2010)

lady amanda said:


> "My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the '70s they blamed Dobermans, in the '80s they blamed German shepherds, in the '90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the pit bull."
> 
> Cesar Millan




except they didn`t - they blamed the Pitbull every decade.



simple question I ask people banging on about bull breeds problems not been inherent - 


Q - "so why don`t the police, army etc use them along side the GSD and Rotties?"

A - "because they are TOO unpredictable"






tigers are nice, I won`t let my kids play with them either.


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## axl the cockerpoo (Sep 29, 2010)

wellerfeller said:


> The only common factor linking all these 'dangerous' breeds is the human species.............so who does that make dangerous, I don't think its the dogs!



no, it`s the fact they we`re all originally fighting dogs


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## lady amanda (Nov 26, 2010)

NO dog was originally a fighting dog. People made them fight.


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## axl the cockerpoo (Sep 29, 2010)

lady amanda said:


> NO dog was originally a fighting dog. People made them fight.




missed a verb sorry, I`ll repost

no, it`s the fact they we`re all originally trained as fighting dogs.


hasn`t altered the fact, has it?


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## wellerfeller (Jul 12, 2011)

axl the cockerpoo said:


> no, it`s the fact they we`re all originally fighting dogs


All the mentioned breeds were in fact guarding and protection dogs. The only 'fighting ' breed are the bull breeds.


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Almost all the dogs at Wood Green are taken in because of behavioural problems, the point I was trying to make is that Staffies have behavioural issues, I have no doubt that this has been exacerbated by humans, either not training, or bad breeding, but they are unpredictable and we are right to be wary of them to protect our pups.


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## Eddie (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm so sorry Claire, the dogs owner must be clueless! Thank goodness Archie wasnt hurt, the scariest thing about staffies, rotties and that type of dog with powerful jaws is how much damage they are capable of inflicting.My dog ended up in the vet hospital because a greyhound went for him when he was very young, I am still afraid of greyhounds and wary of other dogs, luckily my husband takes him out on the fields where he meets lots of dogs off the lead and one of his best friends is a staffie and in general those types of dogs are great with him. This morning I met a lady with a chihuaha[?] whilst walking Eddie along the street and her dog was snarling and growling at him while we were chatting, and she did say that she wished she had socialized her dog when he was apuppy because he always barks at other dogs.The other day my friends border terrier [who has been out on walks with eddie before] went for him and Eddie did what he always does with aggression from other dogs and rolled over, this appeased the dog.My friend apologised because he had his dog off the lead and the dog was being territorial because he was outside his home. Anyway sorry to ramble on so much, I think it just seems impossible to predict when other dogs are going to be agressive or what type of dogs are aggressive.I'm probably the last person to be giving advice, because three months on from my own dog being hurt I am far from confident when other dogs come bounding up,but I can say that eddie has coped really well and as the people at dog training said 'he has come through a bad experience and learned a valuable lesson that other dogs can be nasty'.I hope you continue to enjoy your walks and that you only meet friendly dogs.


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## Clairasol (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks everyone. It's quite ironic actually but the dog Archie gets on best with is a staff and totally friendly, although I have to say I am still wary.

I need some advice though on the back of what has happened.....

Archie hasn't learnt his lesson one little bit. I took everyones advice and went back out with him straight away so that he wasn't put off but It's as though he doesn't remember what happened and just goes off at full pelt at any dog he see's if he's off lead. There is absolutely no way he will come back. His recall is great until we meet another dog. I just don't know what to do. He does come back to treats if we're on our own and knows I have treats all the time but just not listen. He is a very fast learner in all other aspects of his training apart from this.

Tonight we have been out for one of our usual walks, past a gate which has a very aggresive looking dog behind it who barks, snarls and growls at us every time we walk past. He's actually very friendly out of the gate but is extremely territorial. Now, Archie knows this dog is there and has had a nip on the nose more than once but still goes up to it every time we walk past. Tonight, he has put his head through the gate and the dog has got him...He's ok, shaken up at the time but fine now running round with the girls. I just know though that he will go straight up to the gate next time we walk past it and will not learn from this experience or be frightened by it. 

Apart from keeping him on a lead (which I really don't want to do) I don't know what to do. Help......


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Glad to hear that Archie was ok after his little run in! 

I would say that you need to keep Archie on the lead as you pass this gate until he has learnt to ignore the other dog. Try and distract as you approach the gate with a really yummy treat such as chicken or liver. Try and keep him focussed on you as you walk past, treat if he looks at you. If you are using a long line I would also run past the gate with the treat in your hand calling him. You could also try a squeeky ball or something...anything to make you more interesting than the dog behind the gate! 
Daisy used to dart up pathways on our walks into residential areas. I used to run calling her to envourage her to pass them and follow me but there was no dog to attract her attention which is why I would do this on a lead until it is starting to work.

Archie is only young and it will be a while before his recall is perfect. I have found 5/6 months recall was bad, then improved brilliantly and now Daisy is 11 months we are back on the long line again as her recall is dreadful again!


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## Clairasol (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks Sarah, Think I may have to invest in a long line until he starts responding. I hate the fact of him being on a lead constantly and not being able to have a good off lead run though. I do usually try to put him on the other side of the pushchair as we walk past or get my 3 yr old to run ahead and he chases her but I didn't think Stanley was in the garden today, but he was hiding today. 

I sometimes forget Archie is only nearly 6 months old. He's so big already (larger than average I think) and just seems like he's been with us forever now. It's just so frustrating as he is great in every other aspect.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I know what you mean. I hate that we have Daisy back on the long line but she ran out of our dog walking field and onto a road last week which was very scary. It is a pain but in the long run it will be safer all round! My friend has a Cockapoo who is 15 months old and went through the same thing with recall, he is really good now. I would definitely get a long line, it gives them a lot more freedom but you are still in control. We practice recall throughout our walk and if Daisy refuses to come back, we guide her back to us to make sure she comes back. Good luck!


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## M&M's mummy (Jul 12, 2011)

ali-s.j. said:


> *Almost all the dogs at Wood Green are taken in because of behavioural problems,* the point I was trying to make is that Staffies have behavioural issues, I have no doubt that this has been exacerbated by humans, either not training, or bad breeding, but they are unpredictable and we are right to be wary of them to protect our pups.


Is this what they told you when you had your one day training with them?


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Clairasol said:


> Thanks everyone. It's quite ironic actually but the dog Archie gets on best with is a staff and totally friendly, although I have to say I am still wary.
> 
> I need some advice though on the back of what has happened.....
> 
> ...


Hi just thought i'd let you know your dog sounds excatly like Buddy so your not alone ,I think unless you have a puppy like this you cant understand how frustrateing it is day in day out,I now put Buddy back on the lead after weve said hello to other dogs because i know he wont follow me .
Im hopeing its an age thing and that as he gets older his recall will get better,I practice with him everyday when were out and about and his recall is perfect when no one else is around.
Like your dog if another one growls at him he'll try to get closer???I think he has no fear!


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## JulesB (Mar 6, 2011)

Clairasol said:


> I need some advice though on the back of what has happened.....
> Tonight we have been out for one of our usual walks, past a gate which has a very aggresive looking dog behind it who barks, snarls and growls at us every time we walk past. He's actually very friendly out of the gate but is extremely territorial. Now, Archie knows this dog is there and has had a nip on the nose more than once but still goes up to it every time we walk past. Tonight, he has put his head through the gate and the dog has got him...He's ok, shaken up at the time but fine now running round with the girls. I just know though that he will go straight up to the gate next time we walk past it and will not learn from this experience or be frightened by it.
> 
> Apart from keeping him on a lead (which I really don't want to do) I don't know what to do. Help......


I'm laughing at this as it sounds like Betty. When i'm at my parents we regularly walk past a house with a doberman and that is behind the gate. So what does my little madam do? Yep flounce right past as close to the gate as she can almost as if she's saying "look at me on the outside whilst you are behind bars!". She's been snapped at a few times!!

I'm glad Archie is ok though.


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

I wonder if its an age thing and a boy thing?? Daisy wont recall if she sees another dog but my friends dog (male) is much more obsessed with other dogs. Our trainer at puppy class said that she needed to change his focus to her instead of everything else on the walk (easier said than done). When she had Max on the long line she used to run passed other dogs in a fun way, calling him and giving him treats to try and steer his focus to her (not always possible with a pushchair though!) With the long line training and him growing up a bit he is much better now. I still have loads of work on Daisy she is an adolescent monster at the moment! At 8.24 she has already chewed 2 tissues, a plastic carrot, chased my son making him cry and at this very moment she is walking around the living room looking for the next bit of mischief she can get into!  She needs a walk but it will have to wait until the mornings activities have been sorted!Then its off to the woods!


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## Clairasol (Sep 8, 2011)

I am so glad I am not alone and that there are other people with puppys that know best! 

I have tried the changing the focus to me this weekend. We have one of those tennis ball launcher thingys that Archie is totally obsessed with. I drove to our local large park where i knew there would be loads of dogs out walking and refused to throw the ball if there was another dog coming. Archie jumped up and barked at me constantly waiting for the ball to be thrown and I gave him loads of treats the whole time. It worked...he stayed with me, had a sniff of the dog as it walked past but followed me instead of chasing the dog. Break through, but will it last? Before I realised that this tactic was working though he did the usual and ran off towards some dogs and got growled at by a couple of jack russells (thankfully they were on leads!) and a big old lab. He backed of straight away and ran back to me and cowered behind my legs so maybe, just maybe he has a bit of fear at last. Will have to try our normal walking route later today and see how we go.


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