# Heartbroken



## Millie123

I've just had a terrible morning. Pup got over excited this morning and barked and bit my older girl. Left a bad bruise. We went to the vets to have his ears cleaned and drops put in and whilst it was being done he was very aggressive. He was muzzled but goodness knows what would have happened if not. The vet that runs the practice who is highly respected around here and very experienced came through. When it was done she asked if I had other children. I said I had 2 others as I had my big girl there. She said it had to stop. I asked what she meant and she said she felt he should be put to sleep. After further talking trying to persuade her it really wasn't that bad she said the level of aggression he displayed wasn't normal and that we have a dangerous dog who can never be trusted with the children. I don't know what to do. I've spoken with the trainer we are working with who is going to talk to her but I think the vet was set. She said she felt there was something amiss in his little brain. To be honest I've wondered that. He's just gone for son too. I know we cannot keep him now, just don't the best past. She thought re-homing would be risky. Feels like a nightmare right now.


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## 2ndhandgal

Many dogs are aggressive at the vets and a pup having sore ears cleaned for the third (?) day in a row may well put up a fight 

If I was in a position to take him on I would in a flash and I really hope your trainer is able to find someone to take him on and at the very least assess him properly before doing anything too drastic 

There is no way Molly would tolerate a young upstart in her house though so just not possible for me to take him


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## Marzi

This is most awful for you.
Big hugs.
Take advice. Look after yourself, I can only imagine how emotional you must feel.


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## Grove

I don't have any advice but I'm so sorry that you and your family are having to go through this


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## Millie123

I think the thing is deep down I've known there's something not quite right. The vet felt the level of aggression he showed wasn't normal. He has, over the months become more and more unpredictable with the children and my husband. I'm absolutely in pieces about this. It would be very difficult to re-home him having been told he is dangerous both in practical terms but also from a responsibility point of view. We so want what's best for him- I just don't know what that is right at this moment. The trainer is talking with the vet now and will get back to me. I love my boy so much.


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## Millie123

The vet felt he maybe had rage syndrome.


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## DB1

So sorry, to be honest the other day I was going to post that his behaviour reminded me a little of a friends dog who started behaving very odd and unpredictably aggressive and after tests she was discovered to have a brain tumour, but as you had been to the vets recently I presumed his behaviour would have been discussed and as the behaviourist obviously didn't comment on the behaviour being too much I didn't want to freak you out. I wonder if the vets would agree to him having tests/ a scan? I guess rage syndrome or similar would not be treatable anyway. What a horrid time for you, I'm guessing from what you said earlier about the breeder you would not be getting any support from there?


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## Millie123

I've just watched a Youtube video about rage syndrome 'K9 Rage Syndrome Footage' and that's exactly how he gets with food and his crate and that's just with my husband and children going near. Just now he barked at my big girl and bit her ankle very hard when she was just doing homework, this time shaking his head too. I think we could get far with training in terms of minimising food guarding but I honestly don't think these unpredictable times will improve. I want to be positive but my daughters now really hurt and as the vet said it could be my little girls face next. I'm just going to keep the children right away for the moment.


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## emjon123

A friend of mine was told something similar six months ago but with lots of hard work the dog is now brilliant.

Can he not be rehomed with a couple with no children or grown up ones? I dont believe there is no hope for a pup and I am sure there is someone out there who could help. Hope it works out well for the little fellow.


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## RuthMill

Can you contact Stephen in ccgb again, maybe he can take him and see what he makes of him?


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## Millie123

RuthMill- thank you, I spoke with Stephen a couple of days ago and he said he couldn't have him there because they have 4 with aggression at the moment. 
emjon123 It's great that pup improved. Sadly, knowing I've had a vet say he shouldn't really be around the children doesn't give us leeway to work it out over time and he is daily marking them. We so want our pup to have the best option. We have a desperately difficult decision to make. Please know that whatever happens any decision will be made with our pup's best interest at heart. He's our fourth baby.


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## 2ndhandgal

Get in touch with these guys too http://labradoodletrust.com/

I don't see any reason he can not be rehomed to a knowledgable home without kids - I am trying to see if I can find anywhere for him too
Try these too http://www.wonkypetsrescue.co.uk/


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## Millie123

I've spoken to the labradoodletrust but they can't re-home him because of his biting. I've left a message for Wonky Pets. I also spoke with their behaviourist who wouldn't feel comfortable re-homing. I've spoken again with Stephen and he was great and has said to post honestly on the forum detailing Danny's issues and he will vet any replies so they will go through him. I'm going to speak with him again tomorrow. My husband has been home a few hours and Danny has barked at him whilst walking through the kitchen and had to get out of the back door quickly. I so hope someone comes forward quickly. Can't really believe this is happening.


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## Meredith

I'm not familiar with that type of aggression at all but am sorry you are going through this. It sounds like a terrible situation that you've been put in. It must feel like there is just no good option. I hope you can make a decision and feel confident that you did the right thing. Good Luck.


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## Cat 53

How awful for you. I hope you can find an answer that you are all happy with.


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## Marzi

This is so difficult and emotive. The most important thing is that you ensure your children are safe.


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## Miss Lilly

I feel so sorry for you and your family. A puppy should be such a fun and enjoyable addition to any family. I can imagine how difficult each and everyone of you is finding the experiences you are having and how impossible it is for you to balance your love and need to protect your children with your wish to help your pup.

Sadly, I am not experienced enough to be able to offer any advice - there are others here who can do that I am sure. But I did have a thought and perhaps someone can clarify this for me: surely if this were sudden rage syndrome his biting and growling would also on occasion be directed against you, i.e. be indiscriminate?

I did just read this to try and understand the diagnosis better: http://www.doglistener.co.uk/aggression/cocker_rage.shtml

I'm not sure if its helpful and maybe you've come across it already?

I wish you all the very best and hope that the very best solution can be found for all of you.


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## Lexi&Beemer

I have been following your troubles and really can hear how desperate you are at this point. I think you need to see a different vet. I wonder if your boy hadn't had an ear infection for a while. That would explain the sudden change in behavior. I can only imagine how much pain he has been AND how confusing the world is with his hearing all messed up. What may be nothing may be horrible pain and unbearable sound. A pencil scribbled on paper may be agonizing to you. Before you do anything permanent I highly highly suggest you find another vet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lady amanda

Hi there,
ok, I am going to give my opinion here. 
First I am shocked that a vet with having met a puppy would say that they think it should be put down. 
I understand this is a difficult time for you and your family and of course your familys safety is the most important but here are my thoughts. 

With rage syndrome the lashing out comes out of no where, but you say he lashes out around his food and his crate, this looks to me as though he is in a state of sever recourse guarding.

he is also still a puppy and has not learned bit inhibition yet. 

What does your trainer feel about the dog?

what socializing have you done with the puppy?

I am just trying to get a grasp of what is going on here because I am finding all of this hard to understand that no one will take him in. 

Rage syndrome is not something that is widely popular, it is rather uncommon and has been misdiagnosed in so many dogs. 
the dog has to be widely studied before that can become the prognosis for the dog. a lash out at a vets office is not enough for a vet to say that it could be rage syndrome.

Have you tried the thundershirt on him to see if this helps lower his anxiety? is he afraid of your kids? 

if his ears have been bothering him for some time he could be lashing out becuase he is in pain. 

these are my opinions, and if I were on your continent I would take him so that he could find a home with older experienced dog owners without children if that were what was needed. 

Rage syndrome is a serious thing, but one that takes ALOT of time to diagnose, and is very uncommon. it is an old 1970's mindset that brought about springer or cocker rage, and it is a mindset that needs to change in the dog world as we have advanced so far in the care of our animals. 


I am not trying to downplay what you are going through, but putting a puppy to sleep is a very serious matter, and I know that you are not taking this lightly but dont go off what one vet has said.


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## emjon123

Lexi&Beemer said:


> I have been following your troubles and really can hear how desperate you are at this point. I think you need to see a different vet. I wonder if your boy hadn't had an ear infection for a while. That would explain the sudden change in behavior. I can only imagine how much pain he has been AND how confusing the world is with his hearing all messed up. What may be nothing may be horrible pain and unbearable sound. A pencil scribbled on paper may be agonizing to you. Before you do anything permanent I highly highly suggest you find another vet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is exactly what my vet friend said!


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## dmgalley

I'm sorry you are in this position. If I were there I would take him. There must be someone on here who can help this poor puppy.


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## Lexi&Beemer

Please please don't buy into the cocker rage business. I looked up the original study. It looked at bites reported in a metropolitan area in the US. And the dogs listed were the ones reported in the time frame they looked at. People use that study as the basis for cocker rage and the findings of the study does not support that. The researchers didn't even conclude that. That your puppy has had ear infections and is in pain makes much much more sense. 

I understand it is a real difficult time but don't get caught up in essentially gossip by some vets and some trainers. There is no evidence other than anecdotal and that is only because they think it's true. It's called confirmation bias. Rather than looking at the whole picture that's all they see. Run from a vet who brings that up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## emjon123

Have you tried Dogs Trust? 

I am so sorry but find it really unethical a vet would put a healthy dog to sleep. He may have issues but surely in experienced hands, like Dogs trust! these issues could be resolved.


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## Millie123

I have read that thank you Miss Lilly. I think whether it's rage syndrome or not, the vet was shocked by the level of aggression he showed and has said he can't be trusted with the children. We are really struggling to live like this as we never quite know when he may start barking/biting and there have been more incidents this afternoon. We know we can't keep him which has broken my heart more than anything. Stephen said I should consider how I'd feel if I re-homed him and he hurt someone else. It's going to be difficult to re-home as places won't take him due to the biting. I'm still trying and hoping someone will come forward on the CCUK forum but don't know what option we have otherwise. I can't possibly have any more tears left.


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## lady amanda

if you are honest with his issues that you are experiencing then there is no need for a "how would you feel" scenario.


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## lady amanda

A north american rescue or shelter will take a dog with what you are describing. I can not pay for him to be shipped it Canada. But if you were to send him here there are people who could help. 
Have you thought about videoing the scenarios and playing it back to see what the triggers actually are?
and what did your trainer say?


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## Millie123

I will talk to Dogs Trust tomorrow. I would love my boy to go to a good home which understands and can work with his issues. I just don't know how to find that.


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## edenorchards

Please don't believe there is any such nonsense as "rage syndrome" that is a whole bunch of hogwash that is related to epilepsy and other seizseizure disorders. Your dog needs training. If you're unwilling to properly train him please do not destroy him. I wish I were closer and could take him. Your vet sounds absolutely horrid and I would never go there again. I'm so sorry you're going through this but your dog's behavior is completely changeable with proper training and socialization. If there is a medical issue behind the behavior you'd think the vet would have rooted it out or suggested an ethical and realistic solution. I'm absolutely sick to think this dog will be destroyed as a "lost cause" blamed on something that doesn't exist when the problem is training alonside inherent temperament


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## 2ndhandgal

Dogs Trust are very unlikely to take him as they don't generally take on any dogs with problems 

I am still trying to find someone who can help - if I did not have Molly I would be happy to have him as I also believe his issues are resolvable - but you also need to keep your children safe so he needs a child free home - as I understand it he has bitten but the worst damage he has done is a bruise so never broken skin?


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## edenorchards

I would also have some choice words for your vet. I've worked in many vet hospitals and it is extremely common for even the most lovely tempered of animals to require muzzles, gentle restraint and/or sedation due to the level of fear and the amount of pain that goes into many vet appointments. Not to mention the fact that most vets don't bother to train new puppies properly to not feal fearful of a visit. Your vet may be respected by some but I assure you he is NOT respected by anyone whose opinion would actually mean anything. 
Can you look for a veterinary behaviorist? That would be my very first stop. Find a vet that actually knows something about dog behavior. He/she wI'll know exactly what to do and who can take your dog to be trained and have a good, long, healthy and well loved life


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## Millie123

2ndhandgal- he has on two occasions including today grazed the skin so there was a little blood. Nothing terrible. Thank you so much for your help.

I think I'm going to have to have some space away from here just because although I'm getting support I'm also feeling a little judged by some and getting confused in my head. This situation is so hard for us all. I'm desperately trying to work out the right thing to do for everyone including my lovely boy.


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## Nellies mum

How old is your pup?


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## Millie123

He is 7 months.


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## Peanut

Please don't leave this forum. I have been reading the posts and I think you are in such an emotional turmoil that everything affects you a lot (which is totally understandable). 

You were saying that the training was going very well, but apparently today, it just all went out of the window... correct? 

Also, he seems to be ok with other dogs... do you think he would be ok living with others? With a puppy which is 3.5 months too? 

Send me an IM if you can. 

Don't take any decisions yet. We will find a home for him.


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## edenorchards

I am sorry you're feeling judged. I haven't seen any comments saying directly that this is your fault or that you are awful for considering a death sentence for an untrained puppy.
I don't want you to back away from what is excellent advice because you may feel the extreme sadness that will come from this group at your situation. Everyone here really is trying hard to have gentle language during this trying time for you and please know many of us are greatly experienced and really 100% want to help you.
I know it is a long shot due to the expense but if you can fly him to the US I will take him into my home in a second. I realize that may not be an option but if it is I am here and willing.
No one expects you to know everything! But I can tell you that a 7 month old baby is barely capable of true aggression and your puppy does not appear to be showing signs of true aggression. Please give him a chance at life with someone that is willing to work with him. 
Raising a dog is not easy! Training and socialization is hard work. The work should begin with extensive research into the puppy's parents, pedigree and breeder. I'm sad the breeder is a crap one. A good breeder would take your pup back and train him carefully then place him in a suitable home.
I've worked extensively with aggressive dogs. From what you've stated here you have a baby animal that still has a very good chance at training and a good, long life.


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## Nellies mum

Is today the only day he has been 'aggressive'? Sorry I haven't been on here for ages. Nellie my 21 month old has to be muzzled when the vets do anything to her ears.


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## zed

Where are you based ? X


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## Peanut

Millie, I would love to give him a home, but the main concern (which is true) is that with our 3.5 months, a very boisterous 1.2 years old and a cat at home, he will probably feel very threaten and probably even more distressed than he is at the moment. 

What I can offer you is to cover the expense to take him to NY if you cannot afford the transport. Anything is better than putting him to sleep. Please, surely we will find a solution for him. He is obviously a very challenging puppy and he needs a very experienced trainer. You seem to have been unlucky with a very challenging one, but not all dogs are the same, of that you can be sure. 

There are people that will want him and who will be able to train him and give him a good life. 

Send me IMs if you prefer.


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## Hfd

I can't offer a home or any advice really but wanted to say that I can't imagine how awful it must be for your family.
Owning a family dog really should be one of the most rewarding relationships for children and it's sad that it isn't working out that way for you. 
I hope that you are able to find a new home for your pup. x


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## zed

I've a fantastic behaviourist that I can talk to that takes cases that request PTS .. I would love to speak to her to see if she can take him on and work with him please don't make any decisions yet x


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## dio.ren

I would definitely get a second opinion from another vet. I'm surprised a vet would make that diagnosis without doing any testing. His ears may be very sore and that is what is causing him to be aggressive. Putting him down seems a little extreme. I know that some really aggressive dogs can get rehabilitated if they are with a proper trainer that knows how to deal with such problems. I know this must be hard for you and I am sorry. At 7 months Molly was still crazy and nippy so add on an ear infection that hurts it can make them behave differently.

I would definitely get a second opinion before taking such drastic measures!


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## emjon123

You are certainly not being judged

What we all need to remember is vets are fantastic at operating and things like that but when it comes to training and nutrition they are just like the rest of us!

Please do not do anything drastic. We are all here to help.


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## lady amanda

It appears that homes and transport are being offered for your puppy...which means he will have a home. Please don't feel judged.


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## julieblake

Hi, I would consider giving your pup a home. What area are you?


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## Jade

Hi Millie

I really feel for you and your dog.
Where about in the UK are you?

Jade


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## edenorchards

I do hope she comes back and we can help her find a home for this little guy so she doesn't have to feel fearful or heartsick anymore. :-( What a tough spot. Especially when it's a vet... a professional we all automatically trust... that puts such a choice in her lap. No wonder she feels confused and upset. 
I think in the end it will all work out though, from all the support I'm seeing. *fingers crossed*


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## Millie123

I'm based in the UK and would be willing to travel to the right home as long as it was UK based. Stephen Charlton has very kindly offered to vet people for me to ensure people don't offer him a home to either sell him or he goes to a home that not suitable. I am going to do my utmost to re-home him but would prefer recommendations and those known to forum members. Please PM me for Stephen Charlton's number if you are possibly able to help. Thank you so much for your support.


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## lady amanda

I am in Canada, I could help but Stephen won't need to vet me.


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## Peanut

you can see that a home will be found. rest tonight and tomorrow will be a better day. you don't have to take drastic measures


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## tessybear

Millie I really feel for you. Please don't feel judged. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I know I would put my family first, especially with young children.


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## wellerfeller

Millie, please please please pm me. I need to speak to you. I can totally understand why your vet is saying to put him to sleep, this dog is dangerous to have around your children. I wouldn't have a dog like that around my kids and yes he could be turned around but he needs to be somewhere special. You can't train him and have him around your kids. That is for definite!!!, I have another option but need to speak personally. When you pm we can swap phone numbers and talk properly xx


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## RuthMill

The absolute generosity on the forum is extraordinary and never ceases to amaze me. 

This little dog is going to have a long happy life


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## DB1

Well at least hopefully he may get a second chance, Millie I feel for you so much, I'm sure you wish someone could just wave a magic wand and make everything ok, you have been trying so hard - please contact Karen it will be brilliant if she can help.


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## wellerfeller

I am going out to walk my dog now but if you log on Millie, please ring (I believe my number has been passed on) I will have my phone on me and am waiting for your call.
Please don't give up hope on your pup, I am positive we can help you and hopefully even be able to ensure puppy stays in what is obviously a very loving home. He just needs some intensive, gentle help away from home for a while. I am absolutely sure this will have a positive outcome. Xxx


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## fairlie

Millie this sounds like a living hell. If nothing works out there maybe we could crowd source on here to have him flown to a willing and experienced home overseas? (Donna, Amanda?). I would be willing to contribute a good bit to get started. 

Having said that I do know, deep in my heart, that a near painless needle and a sleepy drowsy trip to the "Rainbow bridge" (dog heaven) where they will forever run stress free, is sometimes the very best option. I have watched vets do it and it is what I would do with a sharp/shy dog, a medically fragile dog or an aggressive dog. Sometimes very deep love means making very difficult choices. You know him best, I think you should go with your heart and with your gut instinct. Good luck.


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## wellerfeller

This is a very difficult post but I feel our lovely forum members would want to know why this thread is now closed. Sadly the owners made the very sad decision as advised by their vet and other people they were working with. 
I appreciate this is very upsetting for everyone concerned and think it's best to close the thread rather than just remove and not providing a conclusion for those that were following this story.
Thank you for supporting the poster in a very difficult time. I'm sure it was appreciated.
Xx


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