# Jukee Doodles (JD) Puppy Vaccinations:



## Jukee Doodles

Hi to all prospective JD puppy owners and anyone else interested in vaccinations xx

Following the concerns raised over the second vaccinations and the length of time puppies need to be confined before being allowed out into public - I booked an appointment with our vet this morning and had an interesting; open and informative chat.
It must be said that we are regular customers and he is of an "old school" opinion on most things - he is also very open with regards to practises - and I would (and do) trust Him and his practice implicitly with the welfare of ALL our animals - and that includes cats; rabbits and Competition horses as well as our dogs.

He said that nearly all vaccines are in effect the same - it is just the Brand name that changes. 
Nearly all Vets are supplied medicines through Agents - and Agents push certain Brands (as in all walks of life).
All vets have access to ALL Brands of medication.
If your Vet does not use Eurican (as our vet does) - and they state that they would have to buy in a minimum of 100 units - this is purely that they are looking to get the best whole-sale price and as such a greater margin ! - again if a vet did buy in another brand they would still be able to use it as normal with other peoples animals (so they would NOT need to get it in just for YOU !).
The majority of "old school" vets would just administer the second jab with whatever brand they have - He also made a point of saying that the strange thing is that even if puppies have been vaccinated with Eurican (both jabs) - when they go back later for the booster - no Vet questions the brand difference then !!!!
If your vet suggests that you have to start all over again - it is either that they do not know that the brands are compatible OR that they realise there is another way of making money from you.

*** As I am not happy to release any puppy without it's first vaccination - I then asked if (for peace of mind) he could buy in Nobivac instead (as nearly all vets knew that Vanguard was OK to use with Eurican) - he is more than happy to do that - so if you could give me an idea of numbers then we can happily and easily switch over to Nobivac too as an alternative for those that ask us xxxxxx


Timings
He stated that:

IF you have a puppy vaccinated at 8 weeks - and your vet OK'd the second jab to be at 12 weeks - it is because this apparently will fully cover 98% of puppies vaccinated - keeping your puppy away from Public places for an extra week is just an extra safe precaution.

IF you have a puppy vaccinated at 8 weeks - and your vet OK'd the second jab to be at 10 weeks - it is because this apparently will fully cover 92% of puppies vaccinated - keeping your puppy away from Public places for an extra week is again just an extra safe precaution.

He also mentioned - Some vets are now of the thinking that puppies could go out straight after the second jab into Public places - people would then just be advised to be extra cautious as to where they go x 
Apparently this is because there is a thinking that YOU have as much chance of bringing a higher level of Parvo Virus particles into your home on your shoes as the puppy would be likely to encounter out and about.

BUT He also agreed that it is normally best to follow YOUR vet's advise - as You do need to build a relationship with Your vet xx



On the Parvo Virus issue - he firstly exclaimed that it would be very unlikely to affect us with what we have in place - unless over time we relaxed our own husbandry / hygiene levels dramatically. He also mentioned that in his experience Parvo would not effect all our pups either.
He added an interesting point that he was aware of first hand (being a local authority inspection vet) that some breeders (at ALL levels) are using the Parvo Virus argument as a smoke-screen to keep people away from their premises - as in his experience they can hide what and how they do things along with the numbers of dogs they have !!! He also added that these people also make life difficult for themselves when it comes to inspections as they tend to move dogs about between sites and that too has it's own health and hygiene issues. A larger number of dogs can lead to an increased level of Parvo particles present - and also in His experience - more dogs does not always equal more staff - so each dog cannot get the same level of love; affection; exercise; food; socialisation and sanitation etc etc - so he said it is imperative to meet the puppies parents as their condition will say loads about the owners and their environment.
He said that if you can hear and smell dogs strongly before even getting near to a place - if He was buying a PET - he'd turn and walk away right then !!! 
If you can't see Dad for any reason (they could have used a stud dog) then make sure you actually meet; watch and play with Mum (this is something we also openly recommend to everyone).

Stephen xx


----------



## jools

Thanks Stephen, it definitely makes sense with peoples shoes bringing parvo virus into the puppy as people don't always take their shoes off and Dexter does like a good chew at a shoe when my backs turned!!!


----------



## MillieDog

Millie had her vaccination at 7 weeks 5 days. My vet was not happy with this, saying that the antibodies given by the mother were still in place - and then I couldn't quite follow their reasoning after that. So Millie had to have a third vaccine before she was allowed at at 12 weeks. I felt the vet way being rather over cautious.

I did however, take her out at 10 weeks, as I needed to. But carried her mostly. Boy did we cause a stir carrying an incredibly cute cockapoo puppy. We couldn't walk more that 5 steps without being stopped. I digress sorry.

I'd heard that guide dogs are let out very early on, before they complete their course of vaccinations because it's more important for their socialisation training. I don't know whether this is true or not.


----------



## michaelwatson54

Hi Stephen & Julia
Nobivac would be good for us as I have again checked with my vet and they use Camigem and they are compatible thanks...Michael


----------



## DONNA

Thanks Julia/Stephen for all the info,Novbivac would also be great for us thanks again x


----------



## JoJo

Excellent read .. thank you Stephen  

Just for ref each vet is different so please any new puppies owners out there don’t be shocked to hear after the second jab you must keep your puppy in for either 1 week or even 2 weeks... I was advised 1 week for Oakley then 2 weeks for Oakley ..... and my advice would be the same as Stephen - build up a relationship with your vet, like them and respect their views, they are caring for your dog. Also just like picking a breeder, if you don’t like or warm to your vet, change quickly .. as this relationship will be important for many years to come  hey we are only human after all ... liking and trusting someone is very important.

Like your Breeder  
Like your Vet  
Bring on some puppy funny xxx


----------



## Cockapoodledoo

Stephen and Julia you guys continue to amaze me with your openness and your willingness to go the extra mile, therefore my deposit for another puppy next year will shortly be in the post. Advance notice - we are Nobivac customers! 
Thank you SO much.
If, for any reason, we are unable to commit financially to another pup next summer, would you be prepared to carry our deposit forward to the next batch of scrummy pups?

Karen and Rufus xx


----------



## Jukee Doodles

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Stephen and Julia you guys continue to amaze me with your openness and your willingness to go the extra mile, therefore my deposit for another puppy next year will shortly be in the post. Advance notice - we are Nobivac customers!
> Thank you SO much.
> If, for any reason, we are unable to commit financially to another pup next summer, would you be prepared to carry our deposit forward to the next batch of scrummy pups?
> 
> Karen and Rufus xx



Thanks so much Karen......and Rufus xx

Anyone wanting to place a deposit would not be tied to a specific puppy nor to a specific litter - any deposit placed will be live and active for as long as we breed Cockapoos xx

Stephen xx


----------



## Sarette

Wow, this is absolutely brill, I can't thank you enough for all the extra hard work you do for us all!

Put me down for a Nobivac too (well, my pup, not me haha). 

When we want a second pup, I know where I will be going  

xxxxx


----------



## myrab

*Vaccinations*

Hi Stephen and Julia,

Either of the vaccinations quoted would be fine for our puppy, have checked the brands our vets currently use and both are compatible.

Looking forward to our collection date of 30th July!


Myra


----------



## Mogdog

Hi Stephen and Julia,

Please could you put us down for Nobivac too, for Pearl's black girl, as that's what our vet uses.

Thank you for all the extra trouble you have gone to over this. xx


----------



## Oscarpete

Hi Stephen and Julia

You guys certainly do us proud. 

Thanks so much for all the useful information you have provided, you have certainly made things clearer for alot of us. 

Any of the vacinations would be fine for Oscar.


----------



## pixie

Hi JD,Could you please advice me on which vaccine would benefit me the most,as i would like to get Pixie and Buffy out and about as soon as poss and also have our names down for puppy classes,so.....am i correct that Eurican is given at 8 & 12 weeks therefore pups can go out at 13/14 weeks???? and Nobivac is given 8 & 10 weeks with pups able to go out at 12 weeks.....as you can tell the sooner the better so would Nobivac be best,i can get hold of Eurican so thats no problem either....just need to let you know what im doing!....thanks


----------



## sharplesfamily

Ooh Julia I see another column in your spreadsheet coming on!!


----------



## gemma27

Stephen

Just checked with our vet, they use whichever vaccine they need to to ensure compatibility. They believe most vets will stock a range of vaccines and will use whatever is appropriate. 

Happy to with Nobivac if that is the consensus. 

Gemma


----------



## curt3007

my vet uses Nobivac at 8 weeks 10 weeks and then out after a week


----------



## pixie

curt3007 said:


> my vet uses Nobivac at 8 weeks 10 weeks and then out after a week


Fab stuff! Thankyou....will be doing Nobivac then.... I know its only a matter of a few weeks but will make a difference to me and my brood in the summer hols,dont have to be so house bound! And can start pup classes too

NOBIVAC for Pixie and Buffy please JD. (Mia 2 choc girls)


----------



## Jukee Doodles

gemma27 said:


> Stephen
> 
> Just checked with our vet, they use whichever vaccine they need to to ensure compatibility. They believe most vets will stock a range of vaccines and will use whatever is appropriate.
> 
> Happy to with Nobivac if that is the consensus.
> 
> Gemma


If anyone is able to use Eurican then we would prefer to stick with that where possible. Many thanks Julia xx


----------



## Jukee Doodles

sharplesfamily said:


> Ooh Julia I see another column in your spreadsheet coming on!!


It's already there Hunee xx


----------



## Oscarpete

Jukee Doodles said:


> If anyone is able to use Eurican then we would prefer to stick with that where possible. Many thanks Julia xx


Oscar will be happy to use Eurican


----------



## ali-s.j.

When do Lilly's pups have their first injection? I think my vet use Nobivac, but will try to find a signal and call them to double check.


----------



## Jukee Doodles

ali-s.j. said:


> When do Lilly's pups have their first injection? I think my vet use Nobivac, but will try to find a signal and call them to double check.


Lilly's pups are booked in to the vet for vaccinations on Mon 18th July.

Julia x


----------



## Dolly Parton

Jukee Doodles said:


> If anyone is able to use Eurican then we would prefer to stick with that where possible. Many thanks Julia xx


Nobivac for us please if that is ok (Molly's roan girl, yet to be named ). Thank you so much for advise, this forum is invaluable. See you on the 30th!


----------



## Mogdog

Dolly Parton said:


> Nobivac for us please if that is ok (Molly's roan girl, yet to be named ).


Not Bunny any more then Clare?


----------



## ali-s.j.

Definitely Nobivac for Izzy if you can please  My vet's use Nobivac at 8 & 10 weeks then say 2 weeks before going out


----------



## Dolly Parton

Mogdog said:


> Not Bunny any more then Clare?


Well, still could be Bunny, or Betty, or Mabel......
Once again, I am indecisive


----------



## Mogdog

Dolly Parton said:


> Well, still could be Bunny, or Betty, or Mabel......
> Once again, I am indecisive


All 3 names are good. I'm being equally indecisive ....also liked Mabel but its too similar sounding to Maisie (starting ma..). Also like Lola, Mia, Muffin ....will have to wait till she's here I think.


----------



## Wisher

Just been to the vet today and they have said to ask for Nobivac for Lizzie (rose's litter sporting pink nail varnish)!


----------



## Dolly Parton

Mogdog said:


> All 3 names are good. I'm being equally indecisive ....also liked Mabel but its too similar sounding to Maisie (starting ma..). Also like Lola, Mia, Muffin ....will have to wait till she's here I think.


Yes, will probably do the same. Funny, i don't remember putting this much thought into my children's names !


----------



## curt3007

Wisher said:


> Just been to the vet today and they have said to ask for Nobivac for Lizzie (rose's litter sporting pink nail varnish)!


I wondered how they identified them


----------



## andy0

just been to the vets and nobivac is what they use


----------



## JoJo

Jukee Doodles said:


> On the Parvo Virus issue - he firstly exclaimed that it would be very unlikely to affect us with what we have in place - unless over time we relaxed our own husbandry / hygiene levels dramatically. He also mentioned that in his experience Parvo would not effect all our pups either.
> He added an interesting point that he was aware of first hand (being a local authority inspection vet) that some breeders (at ALL levels) are using the Parvo Virus argument as a smoke-screen to keep people away from their premises - as in his experience they can hide what and how they do things along with the numbers of dogs they have !!! He also added that these people also make life difficult for themselves when it comes to inspections as they tend to move dogs about between sites and that too has it's own health and hygiene issues. A larger number of dogs can lead to an increased level of Parvo particles present - and also in His experience - more dogs does not always equal more staff - so each dog cannot get the same level of love; affection; exercise; food; socialisation and sanitation etc etc - so he said it is imperative to meet the puppies parents as their condition will say loads about the owners and their environment.
> He said that if you can hear and smell dogs strongly before even getting near to a place - if He was buying a PET - he'd turn and walk away right then !!!
> If you can't see Dad for any reason (they could have used a stud dog) then make sure you actually meet; watch and play with Mum (this is something we also openly recommend to everyone).
> 
> Stephen xx


I have been researching Parvo and Vaccinations and have just read this post again... 

I would like to compliment the post by adding a few comments ...

Great to read your research Stephen.. and your vets feeling on the matter too  Thank you for sharing it with us.

However the smoke screen comment maybe true for some breeders, but let’s not forget parvo virus is a very real virus and all good breeders should be cautious when letting people visit their pups and do need to put the safely and health of their own dogs and their litter first ... hence why I feel it is so important to trust and build a relationship with your breeder, they will only be wanting the very best for their own dogs and their new puppies... 

I was also interested to read more dogs does not always mean more staff... How can these dogs get the love and care they need ?? 

I only own 2 dogs at the moment and it is quite full on giving them the love, care, attention, exercise that I feel they need and deserve. Yes I could have more dogs and provide them with the same level of care, but there must come a time when breeders become larger in size therefore more staff is essential to ensure the level of care for their dogs ... and for their puppies.

I think my Puppy Buying Guide on my blog would cover all these concerns ... It’s all about finding a good breeder... a trustworthy and caring breeder who puts their dogs and their puppies first...


----------



## mandym

my situation is slightly different because im a home hobby breeder and having litters very occasionally by the time people come to see puppies ive been in contact with them for a while,i only have one litter and the chances of anyone having visited a kennel prior to coming to see me are slim ( only cockapoo breeder round my way).However i can understand larger kennels being very cautious, if i had several litters and larger premises i would be extremely wary of large amounts of visitors coming to see several different litters,parvo is horrible and i sincerly hope i never have to deal with it xxx


----------



## Jukee Doodles

JoJo said:


> I was also interested to read more dogs does not always mean more staff... How can these dogs get the love and care they need ??
> 
> I only own 2 dogs at the moment and it is quite full on giving them the love, care, attention, exercise that I feel they need and deserve. Yes I could have more dogs and provide them with the same level of care, but there must come a time when breeders become larger in size therefore more staff is essential to ensure the level of care for their dogs ... and for their puppies.
> 
> I think my Puppy Buying Guide on my blog would cover all these concerns ... It’s all about finding a good breeder... a trustworthy and caring breeder who puts their dogs and their puppies first...



It's all about finding the right balance as a breeder with numbers of dogs, facilities, time, energy, efficiency, knowledge. Stephen and I can do twice as much work as any staff could because we know our set-up inside out. We can give ten times more love and affection to our dogs than staff would because these dogs are our life and our passion, you can't buy that. :ilmc::love-eyes::love-eyes::love-eyes:

I can however buy in a house cleaner because she can clean 10 times better and faster than I can !! 

Julia xx


Loving lots of dogs just means that you get a lot more muddy paws on you


----------



## mandym

I think what jojo means though is that no matter how much you love and care for the dogs there are only 24 hours in a day and when i have only one litter i find myself when pups are around 3-4 weeks onwards constantly cleaning up poop and cleaning pups too and thats just on average 6 puppies,yiu cant possibly be with puppies 24/7 if there are sevearl litters,its impossible xxx


----------



## JoJo

Great pictures by the way.. stephen clearly enjoys rolling around with your dogs  

Ha ha ha I need a cleaner ... and I only have 2 cockapoos, 2 kids and 1 husband ... at the moment, more coming soon .. not husbands, not kids, but yes ... JoJo Cockapoos xxx 

I am more concerned about the breeding practices here in general .... that were clearly indicated by the vet .. ref having lots of dogs, lots of litters and not enough care, love, from staff... that’s all.

Quality breeding with quality care ..... quality not quantity breeding, like I said I think my blog covers this .. it’s all about finding the right breeder .. it’s a personal experience.


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> I think what jojo means though is that no matter how much you love and care for the dogs there are only 24 hours in a day and when i have only one litter i find myself when pups are around 3-4 weeks onwards constantly cleaning up poop and cleaning pups too and thats just on average 6 puppies,yiu cant possibly be with puppies 24/7 if there are sevearl litters,its impossible xxx


I have to ask you why you are having to constantly cleaning up after your pups and cleaning the pups too at 3-4 weeks onwards. Are you feeding your puppies something that the mums don't like? 

We take great care in feeding our mums so that they can produce lots of milk. We have only ever had one bitch that didn't have enough milk after a c-section, and Stephen and I hand reared all 9 puppies successfully on Goats milk but still the pups were with their mum 24/7. Including this case, all of our mums do all of the clearing up the poop and cleaning the puppies as the pups are only fed on mothers milk until they are 5 weeks old. The pups are fat and healthy as per our videos, we do not feed puppy porridge as we have no need. The mums do not loose weight as we feed a carefully balanced BARF diet. There are many people on this forum who could vouch for and have seen with their own eyes, the excellent condition our mums are in all the way to the pups being ready to leave at 8 weeks.

If we have a runt in the litter that doesn't have the muscle to push it's bigger siblings out of the way so it can drink from mum, then I will support feed that pup with goat's milk for the first couple of weeks until it can feed solo, but it stays with mum.

At 5 weeks old we then start to wean them onto puppy food (Orijen or BARF) and mum leaves them all day long and then goes back with the pups all night long. She spends her last night with the pups just two days before they are 8 weeks old.

So at 5 weeks I then have to replace mum and clean up after the pups. Our bedding is of paramount importance in keeping the puppies clean and dry. They are on rubber field matting that has holes in it the size of two pound coins, that is about an inch thick. On top and inside the holes of the rubber matting is shredded cardboard which sits neatly within the holes. What this does is ensure that at every minute of the day and night the pups are sitting on a warm insulated bed that cannot get ruffed up by Mum and any urine is absorbed and drawn to the bottom of the mat and away from the pups. So their bed is always dry and they cannot be smothered and bundled up into soft material bedding that so quickly becomes soiled and wet. The top is cleaned on a daily basis and fresh shredded cardboard added. The mat is easy to lift and cleaned on a weekly basis. 

I only say this as it is the details that are relevant to being efficient and effective when caring for dogs. You need great facilities and understanding of what practical care is in the dogs best interest. If I thought fluffy Vetbed and newspaper was best for young litters then I would use it, but it's not. I do however use Vetbed and newspaper when crate training pups from 8 weeks old onwards.





> However the smoke screen comment maybe true for some breeders, but let’s not forget parvo virus is a very real virus and all good breeders should be cautious when letting people visit their pups and do need to put the safely and health of their own dogs and their litter first ... hence why I feel it is so important to trust and build a relationship with your breeder, they will only be wanting the very best for their own dogs and their new puppies...


Parvo is most certainly real and everywhere in the environment. If your facilities are geared up to high standards of hygiene then we believe totally with our vets opinion on the 'smoke screen' issue and that visitors do not have to pose a threat to your puppies health. I think that as more people are doing research and making educated choices about where is the best place to buy a puppy from, the RSPCA and Veterinary advise is most definitely to view the pups with their mother. Discerning buyers will come to expect this as the norm.

Julia and Stephen xx


----------



## mandym

my puppies start solids at 3-4 weeks old and when solids start the pooping starts and the mums only clean up after them for 3 weeks,dont your pups poop? all breeders have to mop up puppy poop!!


----------



## mandym

should also add that at 5 weeks the pups have teeth and claws so its not fair to have them feeding that long!


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> should also add that at 5 weeks the pups have teeth and claws so its not fair to have them feeding that long!


Absolute rubbish, they don't chew on mum, they suckle !


----------



## mandym

when they have gums they do


----------



## Jukee Doodles

They don't bite mums teats !!!
If you observed a pup suckling - you will see that they cup their tongue around a nipple and suck it deep into their throat and gulp on it - expressing the milk using their tongue against the roof of their mouth - they also often knead the surrounding glad with their front paw(s) which encourages milk flow.


----------



## mandym

over the years i have spoken to many breeders and they all told me not leave pups feeding on mum too long especially when the teeth start to come through because it does actually hurt them.one of my litters,one of the first i had did just that and the vet himself told me to get them on solids at once as mums teats and the surrounding are as scratched and sore,this is from actual experience.


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> over the years i have spoken to many breeders and they all told me not leave pups feeding on mum too long especially when the teeth start to come through because it does actually hurt them.one of my litters,one of the first i had did just that and the vet himself told me to get them on solids at once as mums teats and the surrounding are as scratched and sore,this is from actual experience.


We that is you're experience. Our experiencen is that has never been and issue and all the mums have suckled their pups willingly and without soreness.


----------



## mandym

but it can happen and is uncomfortable for them even if theyre still willing to feed so for that reason and the comfort of my dogs i start weaning them at 3- 4 weeks old,so they suckle less


----------



## Jukee Doodles

Our bitches suckle their pups brilliantly without discomfort and both mum and pups thrive. So I don' t see any need at this juncture to change our practices.


----------



## JoJo

I am not getting into a long conversation about this as my Honey needs me .... 

But a few points: 

Vetbed - expensive yes but good for new litters .. surely!

I have seen a bitch still feeding her puppies at 5 weeks old, not a cockapoo, not a cocker spaniel and her nipples were very sore and cut .. 

My point is really about care, love, attention and a nice experience for breeding dogs - I am not saying larger breeders can't provide this.... 

I think that quality is better than quantity when raising puppies .. it’s just an opinion. 

I think more staff would be needed if I ever become a larger breeder.. that’s all ... not that I think that would happen but you never know .. if I enjoy breeding and feel my dogs would get the life I want them to have then I could become a larger sized breeder without even planning it ... 

You all know I am very friendly with all breeders .. that’s just me, it doesn’t mean I would buy a puppy from them .. I just believe strongly in quality of care and the puppies produced ... I have seen some shocking adverts for puppies and heard of some not so good breeder ..


----------



## M&M's mummy

JoJo said:


> I am not getting into a long conversation about this as my Honey needs me ....
> 
> But a few points:
> 
> Vetbed - expensive yes but good for new litters .. surely!
> 
> I have seen a bitch still feeding her puppies at 5 weeks old, not a cockapoo, not a cocker spaniel and her nipples where very sore and cut ..
> 
> My point is really about care, love, attention and a nice experience for breeding dogs - I am not saying larger breeders can't provide this....
> 
> *I think that quality is better than quantity when raising puppies .. it’s just an opinion. *
> 
> I think more staff would be needed if I ever become a larger breeder.. that’s all ... not that I think that would happen but you never know .. if I enjoy breeding and feel my dogs would get the life I want them to have then I could become a larger sized breeder without even planning it ...
> 
> You all know I am very friendly with all breeders .. that’s just me, it doesn’t mean I would buy a puppy from them .. I *just believe strongly in quality of care and the puppies produced ...* I have seen some shocking adverts for puppies and heard of some not so good breeder ..


Good points 

On another forum I have done many a battle with members who are anti- cross breeding and have had a really hard time in trying to show that there are breeders who are doing things right.

Some members on there also used to tell people enquiring about cockapoos to come and ask me for advice.

Since gaining more knowledge which has come from some of the pedigree breeders, I do realise that cross breeders do still have some way to go still.

I have now told them that I will no longer be recommending any more breeders as I do not feel I have up to date experience of them.Also breeders I might have recommended in the past- new information has come along that I have now decided that I will no longer recommend them.

Although I do know of a couple of good hobby breeders from another forum I use, as I have know them for a couple of years I feel that I would still support them.

I also mentioned you JoJo and said you was on your way to becoming a good breeder. ( don't let me down  )

I think in future I might refer anymore potential cutomers looking for cockpoos to your blog JoJo if that's ok with you?


----------



## annemarie

wow jd you are so good at what you do, we get our pup sat, and i have found your posts very helpful,you seem to genuinely care about all your dogs and their new owners,just wanted to say good for you xx


----------



## Cockapoodledoo

Mandy and JoJo for heavens sake pack your suitcases and go and visit Jukee Doodles! Until you do so and see :
1) The amazing relationship that Julia and Stephen have with ALL of their dogs;
2) How much each of their dogs love them;
3) The fantastic facilities they have there and the experience they both have;
4) The energy, enthusiasm and love that they have for what they do; etc etc etc ......

then this 'discussion' will continue and continue and continue. 

I went back to JD this year for my second pup from them .....as did many others. We go back to them because quite frankly we know we will be getting top class quality pups and because we trust Julia and Stephen and their honest and professional set-up.

You both choose to home breed and that is what you both promote ....that's fine but it is getting a bit boring reading some of your posts 'picking away' at other breeders. We all value what you both bring to the forum but there are some discussions that seem to go round and round in circles. I have generally kept away from commenting when there are heated discussions but I'm just beginning to get a bit exasperated at yet another 'dig' at JD. 

Rant over. Sorry. Love you both! xxx


----------



## annemarie

wow jd you are so good at what you do, we get our pup sat, and i have found your posts very helpful,you seem to genuinely care about all your dogs and their new owners,just wanted to say good for you xx


----------



## JoJo

Ahh thank you ... only two things matter to me the care of my dogs and the care and love that goes into any puppies I may or may not breed... it may never happen for me and my dogs :S you never know ... just something I would love to do, and do it to the best of my ability ...


----------



## mandym

sorry karen,im not trying to promote home breeders so sorry if it came across that way,im just saying what i feel,you say 2/their dogs love them and thats maby so but what happens when they get to past breeding age,it can be jazzed up with these breeders saying,they can retire in a loving home but the only home they have ever known is at the breeders,they dont understand why they are being rehomed.these breeders want forever homes for their pups but their own girls will never have that,am i the only one that thinks about the puppies mums? i cant help how i feel,i couldnt ever imagine my on dogs having this life,i couldnt imagine giving my babies away after they were no longer any use and i cant understand why im the only one( or 2) that can see this,its upsetting me!!xxx


----------



## JoJo

Cockapoodledoo said:


> Mandy and JoJo for heavens sake pack your suitcases and go and visit Jukee Doodles! Until you do so and see :
> 1) The amazing relationship that Julia and Stephen have with ALL of their dogs;
> 2) How much each of their dogs love them;
> 3) The fantastic facilities they have there and the experience they both have;
> 4) The energy, enthusiasm and love that they have for what they do; etc etc etc ......
> 
> then this 'discussion' will continue and continue and continue.
> 
> I went back to JD this year for my second pup from them .....as did many others. We go back to them because quite frankly we know we will be getting top class quality pups and because we trust Julia and Stephen and their honest and professional set-up.
> 
> You both choose to home breed and that is what you both promote ....that's fine but it is getting a bit boring reading some of your posts 'picking away' at other breeders. We all value what you both bring to the forum but there are some discussions that seem to go round and round in circles. I have generally kept away from commenting when there are heated discussions but I'm just beginning to get a bit exasperated at yet another 'dig' at JD.
> 
> Rant over. Sorry. Love you both! xxx


I don't think this is fair to be honest ..   

Not a dig at JD at all .. I thought you would know me by now ..... 

I promote one off breeding, home breeding, large scale breeding, the lot.. just quality breeding ... I am nice to the two large breeders on here and always have been .. I like them all ... 

I am pleased you went back to JD twice and you are happy with your puppies  I am thrilled for you ... 

Anyway this forum is about owners not breeders .. sorry I was the one who mentioned the parvo thing as I was researching .. sorry for that ... but I stick to what I said ... quality and care is upmost ...


----------



## andy0

I have to say when i started looking for a cockapoo which has taken 10 months and lots of research.I started wanting to get one from a hobby breeder but the ones i came across where not very good at all and not very honest or had something to hide, when i spoke to jukee doodles in january i felt that i had found someone who new a lot about the breed where genuine and not pushy like most breeders,When we went to see them i have never seen such happy dogs and the love Stephen and jukia have for there dogs is second to none ,I have had dogs in the past but jd are the best i have come across and i would recomend them to anyone they where so honest and open right from the very start wish more breeders where like them keep up the good work Stephen and Julia


----------



## mandym

andy0 said:


> I have to say when i started looking for a cockapoo which has taken 10 months and lots of research.I started wanting to get one from a hobby breeder but the ones i came across where not very good at all and not very honest or had something to hide, when i spoke to jukee doodles in january i felt that i had found someone who new a lot about the breed where genuine and not pushy like most breeders,When we went to see them i have never seen such happy dogs and the love Stephen and jukia have for there dogs is second to none ,I have had dogs in the past but jd are the best i have come across and i would recomend them to anyone they where so honest and open right from the very start wish more breeders where like them keep up the good work Stephen and Julia



thats nice but it would be nice to hear opinions from someone ho doesnt have a jd puppy!!


----------



## ali-s.j.

On the feeding point, I was a breastfeeding counsellor for many years, and fed my own babies long after they had teeth. Mammals are born to suckle their young, left to their own devices, they will continue for much longer than a few weeks. I had a cat whose kittens were born feral and when she brought them to me she was still feeding them at about 8 weeks old.


----------



## M&M's mummy

mandym said:


> sorry karen,im not trying to promote home breeders so sorry if it came across that way,im just saying what i feel,you say 2/their dogs love them and thats maby so but what happens when they get to past breeding age,it can be jazzed up with these breeders saying,they can retire in a loving home but the only home they have ever known is at the breeders,they dont understand why they are being rehomed.these breeders want forever homes for their pups but their own girls will never have that,am i the only one that thinks about the puppies mums? i cant help how i feel,i couldnt ever imagine my on dogs having this life,i couldnt imagine giving my babies away after they were no longer any use and i cant understand why im the only one( or 2) that can see this,its upsetting me!!xxx


I can see why it would upset you. 

The difference is that as a hobby breeder you would breed your pets and hopefully not have more than 3 bitches so therefore you should be keeping them IMO.

Large scale/commercial breeders get their dogs with the sole purpose of breeding them and whilst I'm not saying they don't care and love them, to them they are much more of a commodity.

So it's very doubtful that they can keep all their bitches if they have loads. They have to pass them on to homes and get in new breeding stock.

They operate as a business and I presume it would be impossible to keep all their bitches plus get in new dogs once the others are retired.


----------



## embee

mandym said:


> thats nice but it would be nice to hear opinions from someone ho doesnt have a jd puppy!!


Flo was from a home breeder and the puppies were being fed by mum, as well as being fed kibble and wet food, up to just a few days before collection at 8 weeks. Mum was happy for them to fed sometimes and when she didn't want them too she was quite capable of letting the puppies know without human intervention. She had no cuts, grazes or sore bits that I could see.


----------



## mandym

embee said:


> Flo was from a home breeder and the puppies were being fed by mum, as well as being fed kibble and wet food, up to just a few days before collection at 8 weeks. Mum was happy for them to fed sometimes and when she didn't want them too she was quite capable of letting the puppies know without human intervention. She had no cuts, grazes or sore bits that I could see.


thanks but when i said it would be nice to hear other opinions i didnt mean about the pups suckling lol sorry aboutb the confusion,i meant about breeding young,rehoming your breeding girls etc,its just something i really am passionate about and didnt mean this to turn in to an arguement xxx


----------



## JoJo

I feel I may have been taken in the wrong way, by some on this thread .... I am a good guy so to speak... not out to promote any particular form or scale of breeding at all, but out to promote good breeding... and to help others be more aware of not so good breeding. Love JoJo xx


----------



## Jukee Doodles

What others do with their breeding bitches is their choice. Here at Jukee Doodles we have only ever bought two breeding bitches as 8 week old puppies, all of the others we have rehomed (not rescued as none have been badly treated) at between 8 months and 18 months old. Some have been with families in built up areas and are sold because the owners don't have the time or commitment to care for them. Others have been run on to a year old by gamekeepers, who will often run on a pair of pups and the choose the one that they prefer to work, we love to find these as they are super balanced dogs. A couple of girls we have taken on are full trained gundogs who have worked for a full shooting season before coming to us. It takes many hours of trawling the Internet and using contacts to find the right selected breeding girls. 

Even when they arrive with us it is on the beginning of a trial period. We assess them over several months for temperament and character. What we are looking for are sweet natured confident bitches that naturally want the be part of our pack and want to interact with our training and game playing. If they are too independent we do rehome them without breeding from them.

So when it comes time to retire them from breeding, by the time that they are about 4 1/2 years old we have them spayed. They are sold, not given away and we have people waiting to give them new forever homes. One couple from Cornwall came back for a second bitch as they were so pleased with the first one. These two had been kennel mates with us and were reunited in a family home. Not everyone wants to buy a puppy and these girls have already been selected for their looks, temperament and character and they have no problems or issues that can be present with a rescue dog. We have rehomed five girls so far and all are in loving family homes and all have settled into home life very easily as at 4 years old they are still quite young and adaptable.

As for my feelings about these bitches............they certainly are not my 'babies'. I have real two legged versions! I respect each and every one of the mummy's and their health and welfare is invaluable to us. They provide us with a Family lifestyle that we love.....we are indebted to them. We do not hide any of them as you will see on our website we post the pictures and names of each and every one of them and their respective litters. This appears to be unusual in itself for dog breeders. We do not feel that we have to hide or apologise for what and how we do things. 

I'm sorry if this post seems a little long but I just felt that I wanted to put the record straight.

Julia xxx


----------



## sarahjo

mandym said:


> thats nice but it would be nice to hear opinions from someone ho doesnt have a jd puppy!!


I don't have a JD pup BUT we did go to visit them and spent an hour or two being introduced to each and every dog, being told their personalities, their likes and dislikes, what their litters were like, being shown the facilities, discussed the breed, the different types etc etc etc

Stephen and Julia welcomed us into their home for a fact finding tour and we were very impressed with the whole set up and the care, knowledge and attention they give to their dogs and I would recommend them to anyone.

The only reason we didn't get a pup from them was that the Cockpoo fund had to be spent on fixing the bathroom and me being impatient couldn't wait until we had saved up again so we got a Cockapoo that needed rehoming. Hopefully my second pup will be a JD pup.


----------



## mandym

sarahjo said:


> I don't have a JD pup BUT we did go to visit them and spent an hour or two being introduced to each and every dog, being told their personalities, their likes and dislikes, what their litters were like, being shown the facilities, discussed the breed, the different types etc etc etc
> 
> Stephen and Julia welcomed us into their home for a fact finding tour and we were very impressed with the whole set up and the care, knowledge and attention they give to their dogs and I would recommend them to anyone.
> 
> The only reason we didn't get a pup from them was that the Cockpoo fund had to be spent on fixing the bathroom and me being impatient couldn't wait until we had saved up again so we got a Cockapoo that needed rehoming. Hopefully my second pup will be a JD pup.


again thats not what i meant but thanks for that,i have no doubt their set up is lovely and im sure they are too,i dont doubt that,its the early breeding,breeding every season and rehoming,its just what i have strong opinions about.i also dont think that rescueing a dog as an adult to breed then rehome again is very fair either,thats not rescuing, but again thats my opinion x


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> again thats not what i meant but thanks for that,i have no doubt their set up is lovely and im sure they are too,i dont doubt that,its the early breeding,breeding every season and rehoming,its just what i have strong opinions about.i also dont think that rescueing a dog as an adult to breed then rehome again is very fair either,thats not rescuing, but again thats my opinion x


So are you suggesting that we are breeding bitches back to back?


----------



## mandym

Jukee Doodles said:


> So are you suggesting that we are breeding bitches back to back?


have no idea just something else i am against however isnt bella who has pups also digbys mum?


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> have no idea just something else i am against however isnt bella who has pups also digbys mum?


Posted twice oops


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> have no idea just something else i am against however isnt bella who has pups also digbys mum?


Yes she sure is. Digby was a single pup which does not constitute a litter, we followed our vets advice to breed Bella again the following season. She has a litter of 7 at the moment, and at nearly 4 years old this is her last litter. Remember Mandy we are licensed breeders and bound to only breed one litter a year per bitch.....this is another reason why we name and show all of our girls.


----------



## mandym

Jukee Doodles said:


> Yes she sure is. Digby was a single pup which does not constitute a litter, we followed our vets advise to breed Bella again the following season. She has a litter of 7 at the moment, and at nearly 4 years old this is her last litter. Remember Mandy we are licensed breeders and bound to only breed one litter a year per bitch.


But she had a section and had pre eclampsia ,thats a big operation and it was only 8 months ago!!!! sorry but a litter is a litter whether its one or twelve!!


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> But she had a section and had pre eclampsia ,thats a big operation and it was only 8 months ago!!!! sorry but a litter is a litter whether its one or twelve!!


Which is exactly why we sort and followed our vets advce. It has indeed proved to be good advce.


----------



## mandym

Jukee Doodles said:


> Which is exactly why we sort and followed our vets advce. It has indeed proved to be good advce.


jd 6 months is far too soon after a cesarean section to breed your girl,she still went through pregnancy,a illness and a section and needed at least a year to recover.


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> jd 6 months is far too soon after a cesarean section to breed your girl,she still went through pregnancy,a illness and a section and needed at least a year to recover.


Mandy that is your opinion. You are not my Vet nor do you know Bella or the circumstances of the operation. It seems that you are a very judgemental lady.


----------



## Jukee Doodles

So at least you have all had your say and we all now know what your opinions are. 

As we don't have to answer to you and are confident in our practices I think we have said enough.

Julia xx


----------



## JoJo

I have been spending some time with Honey but just came on here to read all this ...

I am interested for my own reasons, but, why did Bella have a c section with just one pup? I am sorry if that sounds stupid .. I am interested to learn...


----------



## sharplesfamily

fallon said:


> But then there are breeders and breeders,


And just when we had all been commenting how the snide, nasty comments had stopped from the forum and we were back as the friendly group again.

JD have said that they followed their vet's advice so unless you passed through the RCVS and have seen the case notes, I really don't think you should be passing comments.

Dave


----------



## JoJo

Jukee Doodles said:


> Yes she sure is. Digby was a single pup which does not constitute a litter, we followed our vets advice to breed Bella again the following season. She has a litter of 7 at the moment, and at nearly 4 years old this is her last litter. Remember Mandy we are licensed breeders and bound to only breed one litter a year per bitch.....this is another reason why we name and show all of our girls.


I am so confused ... must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year?


----------



## mandym

sharplesfamily said:


> And just when we had all been commenting how the snide, nasty comments had stopped from the forum and we were back as the friendly group again.
> 
> JD have said that they followed their vet's advice so unless you passed through the RCVS and have seen the case notes, I really don't think you should be passing comments.
> 
> Dave


sorry but what vet would allow a dog to be mated six months after having pre eclampsia and a section??if you think this is acceptable then that makes you just as bad,im not being nasty or snide just speaking the truth,why would you do this for any other reason than for money,its utter cruelty!!!!! please dont keep commenting back,it wont make things any better,im disgusted!!!!


----------



## Sezra

JoJo said:


> I am so confused ... must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year?


I am also confused...if a licensed breeder can only breed from a bitch once a year and she had a c section 8 months ago isn't that a back to back season and isn't it within a 12 month period? Maybe my maths is bad tonight, I am bloomin knackered! As far as I am aware it is not considered ethical to breed a bitch back to back, just because she only had one pup doesn't mean it doesn't count as a litter! 

BTW the reason that the Kennel club, RSPCA and the council have a minimum breeding age is stop stop puppy farmers and other low life breeding on the bitches first season. As you are probably aware if you look into individual breeds the reccomended age for a first litter varies and often depends on the size of the dog. The Kennel club will advise you (if you ask) to contact the Breed clubs for specific information on things such as what is considered a good age to start mating your bitch and what health tests are reccomended before considering producing a litter. For Cocker Spaniels it is a minimum of 14 months and the second season. If the second season falls before 14 months it is considered best to wait until the third season. I think most small breeders however prefer to wait until about two years old. In addition to this I don't think you will find anyone reccomending breeding two seasons in a row (well apart from your vet).


----------



## sharplesfamily

mandym said:


> sorry but what vet would allow a dog to be mated six months after having pre eclampsia and a section??if you think this is acceptable then that makes you just as bad,im not being nasty or snide just speaking the truth,why would you do this for any other reason than for money,its utter cruelty!!!!! please dont keep commenting back,it wont make things any better,im disgusted!!!!


I'm passing no comment as I am not a vet and I don't know the background. All I'm suggesting is that others do the same unless they know this particular case and are better qualified than JD's vet.


----------



## mandym

sharplesfamily said:


> I'm passing no comment as I am not a vet and I don't know the background. All I'm suggesting is that others do the same unless they know this particular case and are better qualified than JD's vet.


that vet needs to be sacked!! im very shocked that anybody would think this is ok,just because you like the breeder,doesnt anyone care about this poor little dog apart from me and 3 others?


----------



## Sezra

sharplesfamily said:


> I'm passing no comment as I am not a vet and I don't know the background. All I'm suggesting is that others do the same unless they know this particular case and are better qualified than JD's vet.


Vets are not necessarily experts on individual dog breeds (not claiming that I am either) although they obviously have an amazing across the board expertise and experience. My vet has no experience of chickens which means I have to take my girls elsewhere if there is something wrong with them (thankfully nothing yet). I am just saying, they don't know it all! 

They get paid alot as well, more litters, more puppy checks, more vaccinations.....


----------



## Jukee Doodles

For those of you who are interested and are confused as to what MandyM, Fallon and Sezra are referring to here is the link to the original thread and a quote from it: 



> MandyM: lovely story and wow he is a stunner,looks a lot like his mum too xx


http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=2205&highlight=surprise+visitor


----------



## mandym

Jukee Doodles said:


> For those of you who are interested and are confused as to what MandyM, Fallon and Sezra are referring to here is the link to the original thread and a quote from it:
> 
> 
> 
> http://ilovemycockapoo.com/showthread.php?t=2205&highlight=surprise+visitor


that was before i realised that his poor mum had already been bred again,still think he and his mum are gorgeous but think she couldve been done with a
longer break to recover from a horrendous experience,it wouldnt have harmed anyone to either wait 6 months or spay her


----------



## Jukee Doodles

mandym said:


> that was before i realised that his poor mum had already been bred again,still think he and his mum are gorgeous but think she couldve been done with a
> longer break to recover from a horrendous experience,it wouldnt have harmed anyone to either wait 6 months or spay her


No I think you'll find your comment was posted 12 minutes after the information about the mating.


----------



## mandym

Jukee Doodles said:


> No I think you'll find your comment was posted 12 minutes after the information about the mating.


well i didnt know until i saw your puppies advertised and the mums name was bella and even then i actually thought that you had made a mistake with her name cos i didnt think anyone could possibly breed a dog that close to a section! look ive said this because i feel very strongly about it but now we are nit picking and it doesnt take away the fact that bella was bred too close to a season,theres nothing else to say here


----------



## M&M's mummy

If my breeding bitch had a c-section and pre-eclampsia then if I was her breeder I would be concerned as to whether she would be pre-disposed to having the same again on her next pregnancy.


With JD only they know the facts and reasons as to why a c-section was needed in the first place.

I do think that a c-section should be given more time to heal and not just 6 months, that's my opinion and I understand others will have a difference of opinion.

Personally on moral grounds I wouldn't have bred a bitch again who have endured both these conditions which can be fatal and would have had her spayed.

This is a very emotive subject and is bound to cause differences of opinion.


----------



## Emma

sharplesfamily said:


> JD have said that they followed their vet's advice so unless you passed through the RCVS and have seen the case notes, I really don't think you should be passing comments.
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave I'm watching this debate as an outsider, I have no experience in beeding and no wish to breed. However I find this debate interesting and for the most part civil. Jds are very open and honest and responding to everyones concerns. Mandym is also an experienced breeder and they are using the forum as it should be used to civilly discuss the issue raised. I think if Jds don't Want comments then they wouldn't respond. All good breeders (like jd and others on here) should be open and honest about their practices and will only learn from differences of opinion like this. Emma x


----------



## ali-s.j.

:iagree: Emma, unfortunately not every post has been civil, and one calls for JD not to comment further, which is hardly a debate!
I do understand that people have strong feelings and opinions, I wish they could be kept as that, and not expressed as a matter of fact.


----------



## Emma

That's why I said mostly. We can't all agree all of the time but I do feel this is a much less hostile debate than we were seeing a few months ago, not perfect bit better. I'm only just back after all that carry on!! Hehe. Emma x


----------



## DONNA

To answer the question about the c-section i think some vets will reccomend that the bitch get preganant her next season so that scar tissue does not form and so prevent future pregnancies,and other problems.(im not an expert just looked it up)

JD are open to debt about the way they run their business as they do nothing behind closed doors,i would be more concerned about the breeders who seem to breed year after year but never let anyone see their bitches and how many they have etc.


----------



## mandym

DONNA said:


> To answer the question about the c-section i think some vets will reccomend that the bitch get preganant her next season so that scar tissue does not form and so prevent future pregnancies,and other problems.(im not an expert just looked it up)
> 
> JD are open to debt about the way they run their business as they do nothing behind closed doors,i would be more concerned about the breeders who seem to breed year after year but never let anyone see their bitches and how many they have etc.


this whole thing has upset me because i only argue occasionally about something i truly believe in but also yoiu are all missing the point,being upfront,having a nice set up,being friendly none of that matters hen a little dog has had 2 litters,pre eclampsia and a section within 8 months,its clear many think thats ok but in MY opinion i think its a shame and cruel and also pointless,what was the hurry,thats all i have to say cos im sick of this who;e [post!!!!!


----------



## JoJo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukee Doodles 
Yes she sure is. Digby was a single pup which does not constitute a litter, we followed our vets advice to breed Bella again the following season. She has a litter of 7 at the moment, and at nearly 4 years old this is her last litter. Remember Mandy we are licensed breeders and bound to only breed one litter a year per bitch.....this is another reason why we name and show all of our girls. 

I trying to learn here... as one day I may be a licensed breeder??!!! you never know :S

Must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year? 

Did only one pup survive from a full litter?
How many were in the litter born January?
How many in the litter born August?

If you did loss puppies, I am truly sorry for both Julia & Stephen ... that is something I dread


----------



## DONNA

mandym said:


> this whole thing has upset me because i only argue occasionally about something i truly believe in but also yoiu are all missing the point,being upfront,having a nice set up,being friendly none of that matters hen a little dog has had 2 litters,pre eclampsia and a section within 8 months,its clear many think thats ok but in MY opinion i think its a shame and cruel and also pointless,what was the hurry,thats all i have to say cos im sick of this who;e [post!!!!!


Yes i understand your point but i do think your looking at it in a very black and white view,non of us are vets non of us were that dogs vet we dont know the ins and outs of this case.

Im just saying there is a very strong reason for letting a bitch mate again ie: scar tissue .

She has since gone on to have a healthy pregnancy and is doing well so all seems fine .

Please dont get upset about this we cant tell people how to care for their dogs everyone has their own opinions of what is best .All you can do is do the best for your own.


----------



## doodlebug

My goodness that is really bad breeding practice, to breed a bitch again after she has suffered pre-enclampsia plus gone through a cesar, and to breed her so soon afterwards. I would change your vet asap!. A reputable breeder would have had her spayed rather than risk her again, she may have only had the one puppy but shes been through more trauma than if shes whelped a litter naturally.

I hope you wont put her through more pregnancies?


----------



## sharplesfamily

I have personally seen Bella with her litter of 7 and she is a very happy and loving mummy. So she hasn't been through any more trauma . And don't you read the posts properly Doddlebug? JD has already said that this would be her last litter.

I think JD know well and truly what you all think now. They followed their vet's advice and it has worked out wonderfully, like the vet thought it would. Bella is a proud mum of 7 gorgeous pups. So let's change the subject and remove this post as this forum is rapidly turning back to being bitchy like it was before. Oh, and how funny that some of you 'left' the forum after the bitchiness and now suddenly have returned in force to attack JD. There appears to be a common theme developing...


----------



## EG1

I wouldn't lose a moments sleep over JD's practices. They conduct themselves and their business with total openness, integrity and dignity. This forum would be a whole lot poorer without their input. Let's move on.


----------



## doodlebug

sharplesfamily said:


> I have personally seen Bella with her litter of 7 and she is a very happy and loving mummy. So she hasn't been through any more trauma . And don't you read the posts properly Doddlebug? JD has already said that this would be her last litter.
> 
> I think JD know well and truly what you all think now. They followed their vet's advice and it has worked out wonderfully, like the vet thought it would. Bella is a proud mum of 7 gorgeous pups. So let's change the subject and remove this post as this forum is rapidly turning back to being bitchy like it was before. Oh, and how funny that some of you 'left' the forum after the bitchiness and now suddenly have returned in force to attack JD. There appears to be a common theme developing...


Ive been around dogs and breeders long enough to know that its unethical to put a bitch through another pregnancy after what she suffered, i dont know any reputable ones who would even breed after a cesar nevermind pre-enclampsia. And i dont know a reputable one who would breed a bitch back to back either!

Im thrilled she wont be put through anymore i didnt read all the posts sorry, and no i never came back to attack anyone actually, the thread caught my eye and im passionate about supporting ethical breeding practices and wanted to give my views on something which is 100% wrong.


----------



## JoJo

Can someone please answer my questions: I would really like to know 

Must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year? 

Did only one pup survive from a full litter? 
How many were in the litter born January?
How many in the litter born August?


----------



## M&M's mummy

JoJo said:


> Can someone please answer my questions: I would really like to know
> 
> Must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year?
> 
> Did only one pup survive from a full litter?
> How many were in the litter born January?
> How many in the litter born August?


Only Digby survived from the litter in Jan- but don't know out of how many

7 were born in Aug


----------



## AlanAberdeen

I have read this thread with great interest and one thing that is apparent is that jukee doodles have got there followers ie-(THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BOUGHT PUPPIES FROM THEM).I certainly would not purchase a puppy from jd or recommend them as what they are is a posh puppy farm and there is no other word for it.Who in there right mind has 70 puppies on the go at one time and can give them the attention and care they deserve without employing helpers?This thread should be left to make people aware that things arent always what they seem.x


----------



## JoJo

Please don't get upset about this thread any JD customers .... JD have always been really open about their breeding and have come on here as breeder. I am sure they don't mind a few questions being asked.. I like Julia and Stephen very much, always have done, and have always coo'ed over their puppies .... and maybe one day I will meet them for myself  .... but some on here are upset about the breeding practice that’s all. 

And it is an interesting read for others who are trying to learn about ethical breeding, searching for a new puppy or considering breeding ....


----------



## M&M's mummy

JoJo found this info regarding breeding per year:

Quote :

Dog breeders who breed five or more litters a year must be licensed under the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999. Even if you breed fewer than five litters a year, but breed for business purposes, you too must be licensed.
The Act also states that licensed breeders cannot mate a bitch under 12 months old; cannot whelp more than six litters from a bitch; cannot whelp two litters within a 12-month period from the same bitch; they must keep accurate records and puppies cannot be sold until they are eight weeks old. However, they are able to sell puppies, less than eight weeks of age, to a licensed pet shop or Scottish rearing establishment.


----------



## JoJo

Interesting....... but in all fairness maybe JD should answer these questions, as it is their bitch and their puppies others are talking about, and their license... 

Must a licensed breeder only breed a bitch once a year? 

Did only one pup survive from a full litter?
How many were in the litter born January?
How many in the litter born August?


----------



## Jukee Doodles

AlanAberdeen said:


> I have read this thread with great interest and one thing that is apparent is that jukee doodles have got there followers ie-(THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BOUGHT PUPPIES FROM THEM).I certainly would not purchase a puppy from jd or recommend them as what they are is a posh puppy farm and there is no other word for it.Who in there right mind has 70 puppies on the go at one time and can give them the attention and care they deserve without employing helpers?This thread should be left to make people aware that things arent always what they seem.x


Hi Alan,

As with all walks of life whatever you do will not suit everyone.
As with all aspects of an open forum people have a right to their own individual opinion - and everybody has that right. You do not however have the right to be slanderous, so do need to get your facts right otherwise you could lay yourself open to legal action.

I think that being honest and open is in it's own right is a refreshing approach to breeding - and we could (as many do) operate behind closed doors !

We have nothing to hide - nor nothing to hide behind - and are happy to share information; advise and experiences with all - the flip side of that is that we are happy to receive comments too - as with everything it is totally up to the individual what they take from it.

If you consider us to be a 'posh puppy farm' then you clearly have never seen nor understand what puppy farms are actually like !!!!

As for the puppies, 75 to be precise, their arrival, development and forever homes are documented in some detail on this site........our so called 'followers' are people who have actually been here at least once and formed their own opinions first hand, not all are our customers as we don't pressure any visitor to buy and some just visit us solely as a fact finding tour.


Julia and Stephen


----------



## AlanAberdeen

like you say everyone is entitled to there own opinionbut what you have put that poor bitch through by breeding back to back is disgusting but hey thats just my opinion.x


----------

