# E-Collars



## suem56 (Nov 23, 2015)

Dexter in 4.5 months old now and his recall is 'reasonable' but far from perfect. Where I live we have lots of options for walking in woods or countryside and so I've gotten into the habit of taking him to these places where I usually let him off lead - so much more enjoyable for both of us. With other dogs we meet I can pretty much get him to come to me when it's time to stop playing - but joggers and cyclists are a real problem. I'm having to face up to the fact that he'll have to be kept on a long line as a minimum because if I don't see them coming in time, he will chase. I've done a lot of googling and now know that he can be trained not to, but that this will likely take quite a long time to become reliable. But in my research I came across the e-collar (was being used to train not to chase sheep) - and they say it can be set very low so it's not at all 'painful'.
Does anyone have any experience of these? Are they considered a total no-no, or are they simply an alternative training tool that will take just as long as the treat-based techniques anyway? Appreciate any advice.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Your puppy is just showing normal puppy behaviour. Lots of consistency and keeping him on a long line if there is a chance of him self rewarding and you will get there.

Whatever they say e collars work by pain the dog consider punishing enough to want to avoid - they would not work otherwise. Please don't go down the punishment route with your puppy. It can go badly wrong and cause far more problems than it could ever solve. Can you consult a good positive reward based trainer? Do you go to puppy classes?

These collars are illegal to use in Wales - hopefully they will be one day in the rest of the UK. 

Just to confirm positive training works - Molly was 17 months when I got her. She had never been off lead and just wanted to chase birds. It took a while but she is now usually off lead on our walks and all through building a strong relationship and lots of rewards for her making good choices


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## Marzi (Sep 17, 2012)

No would be my opinion.
Dexter is still a baby and you can definitely train him using positive reward based training. Get yourself a good treat bag and load it up with baked liver and dried fish (yum!) get a small fleece tugga type toy that you can keep in your pocket and produce for exciting periods of play during your walk.... 
Look up clicker training on you tube and enjoy learning alongside your pup.
Encourage Dexter to enjoy playing with a ball.
Never let your dog off lead in the vicinity of live stock.


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## suem56 (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanks guys - that was the answer I as expecting. 
Yes we've been to puppy classes, and we do all the positive stuff, and I do reward him well for a successful recall, but it seems the chase instinct is pretty strong and makes him a bit deaf 
It's always seemed to me that not having a way of marking the wrong behaviour (like a reverse clicker), but instead just rewarding the 'right behaviour' and so expecting the bad stuff to stop because he doesn't get into the habit of doing it, is quite a long-winded way to train. If you couldn't tell your children when they did something wrong it would be pretty hard work wouldn't it. I wouldn't dream of using an e-collar as punishment - it just sounded like it might have a use to help make him aware he was doing something undesirable. 
Thanks again for your advice.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

The key to positive training is to set up situations where it is easier for them to get it right and then heavily reward that and as they get better you can increase the challenge gradually.

So with joggers and cyclists have some really top class treats and best toy and go somewhere you know you will see joggers. With Dexter on a lead start at a distance where you are close enough for him to be aware but not so close that he loses his brain and heavily reward for not being distracted. You have a few variables, how close you are, how long a lead the pup has and how tempting the joggers are (cyclists are probably faster and more tempting). If he is too tempted say nothing and just hold the lead at whatever position you have it (maybe stand on a long line) and wait. At some point he will lose focus on what he has been trying to get to and at that point you can call him and reward heavily. 

With good enough rewards and a careful increase in the distraction levels pups can learn the value of making the right choices and you can progress quite quickly.

Beware though as you still have teenager to come so might have to go back to the long line to get through that bit


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## Cat 53 (Aug 26, 2012)

I've just invested in a pet corrected can. It makes a loud hiss, there's no smell, no chemicals. It's worked a treat with my two. Different issues to yours, but very successful. I bought it because our first time away in the Motorhome the dogs slowly drove us potty. They are not used to being on leads and where we stayed they had to be restrained. For their safety, site rules and one was full of livestock. They whined when I was out and they were in, but could see me. They whined when they were out and I was out and they could see me. They whined when I went to the loo. They whined when they were out and I was in but they could see me. I could feel the irritation rising, so I decided to see what I could find. Got the spray and have basically used it a few times to correct unwanted behaviour. The going berserk at the window when someone walks by the gate. They start, I press the button, they stop. They come to me, they get praised. The difference has been dramatic. It seems to unlock the cycle and stops the behaviour escalating. Now I only need the can on display. They aren't cowed by it just distracted. You don't spray it at them. And the correct behaviour is rewarded.


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## fairlie (Sep 7, 2013)

I've met two people who used shock collars. One guy had huskies, dogs you could never normally walk off lead, which he could now do, but he did warn that he needed to reuse the collar now and then to keep the memory of it fresh. Another woman had a Jack Russel who chased bicycles into traffic, nearly giving her a heart attack. She did get much better obedience from the dog but I don't know if she needed to reuse it after the initial learning. I've contemplated an electric fence for Zorbie, because he thinks his territory is much much larger than we do but they are too expensive. My guess is that most cockapoos are far too sensitive for the tool of shock, which is a bit like a sledge hammer. 

Puppy people who are reading this be advised. Walk off lead from the get go. Always insist on a *no chasing* rule, except for his own ball, period, no exceptions. A gutteral "uggghhh" sound will get a young pup to look to you before he gives chase and get a very nice treat for ignoring the _______(insert moving vehicle/object/animal/bird/person here). In no time they'll see the object of their desire and come to check in on you for being so good. When they see a squirrel and know it likely means a game of ball you'll know you've mastered it. Like with all things, it is a million times easier to avoid a problem in the first place than to try to correct it later.


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

The problem with using any form of punishment is you need totally spot on timing and be a master of judging situations and if you can do that positive training is a doddle for you.

When I first got Molly she was not really socialised with any dogs and if out of her comfort zone did the go by barking which so many dogs do. In the early days though I visited a friend of another friend. I thought I could trust this person and I was strong as when Molly barked at her dog (a very large GSD) she used an air spray on her - twice with no warning to me. it stopped Molly barking at the dog but I was not happy it had been done and neither was Molly.

5 years in the ONLY breed Molly still has an issue with are GSDs which I am sure is no coincidence - punishment often has unexpected consequences and that is a very clear one with Molly.

It could easily be the case that as a dog is sprayed or shocked they are looking at a small child you had not even seen, you may think the dog knows why they got the punishment but they could equally draw the conclusion the child was the problem and develop a fear of children from that incident.


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## SakiCB (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm also not a big fan of shock collars. Has someone tried citronella collars?


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## 2ndhandgal (Aug 29, 2011)

Citronella collars are still using punishment - no need for those methods at all and they can damage your relationship with your dog and have unintended consequences when you use them.

Do you have a problem you need some help with SakiCB?


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