# Training aids



## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

At our first puppy class the other night the instructor tried to sell us what I can only describe as a leather choke chain ( proably not well described). It was like a noose which you slip over the dogs head and you can tug on it and it tightens if the dog ties to pull. He said he had had them specially made and no one else sells them. The collar and lead was £36.00 - but are supposed to last a lifetime.
Has anyone else used one of these and are they any good??
I do feel it was a bit of a hard sell to a captive audience but they did seem to
work when demonstrated on a couple of the pups.
He was also trying to sell the 'air in the can' stuff that stops dogs barking...
has anyone else tried this and is it worth the money??
Thansk for any advice..


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## kendal (Jul 16, 2009)

did it look like thease?

http://www.leatherleads.com/wag_products/collars.asp


slip leads can work but are normaly baught as a lazy collar as they just slip on rather than faffing about with a buckle, we use slip leads at the kennels as they are easier to get on nervy dogs who arent keen on you touching their collar, or bad pullers as you can keep it hight up on the neck unlike a normal collar.


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

The pet shop I have used for years sells the air in a can stuff and swears by it! They said that some people after using it for a while only have to show the dog the can and they stop as hate the noise so much! I haven't tried it as Beau barks for attention and so we turn our backs on her and she stops


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## Dolly Parton (Jun 6, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> At our first puppy class the other night the instructor tried to sell us what I can only describe as a leather choke chain ( proably not well described). It was like a noose which you slip over the dogs head and you can tug on it and it tightens if the dog ties to pull. He said he had had them specially made and no one else sells them. The collar and lead was £36.00 - but are supposed to last a lifetime.
> Has anyone else used one of these and are they any good??
> I do feel it was a bit of a hard sell to a captive audience but they did seem to
> work when demonstrated on a couple of the pups.
> ...


Personally not sure this sounds like the sort of thing I would use. I would rather a dog trainer be using positive reinforcement to encourage a dog to walk to heel than a special lead. Not sure there is any need for a lead like this if you train them using treats and praise positive behaviour. Also if you train your dog to bark you can easily train them to be quiet without using a spray or anything like that. Just a thought.....


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## MillieDog (Jun 1, 2011)

Dolly Parton said:


> Personally not sure this sounds like the sort of thing I would use. I would rather a dog trainer be using positive reinforcement to encourage a dog to walk to heel than a special lead. Not sure there is any need for a lead like this if you train them using treats and praise positive behaviour. Also if you train your dog to bark you can easily train them to be quiet without using a spray or anything like that. Just a thought.....


Hi Dolly
I notice you are from Herts. Do you know The Family Dog I'm Redbourne? They train with the same ethos as you feel? They're my trainers.


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

kendal said:


> did it look like thease?
> 
> http://www.leatherleads.com/wag_products/collars.asp
> 
> ...


Thanks Kendal, I'll have a closer look next week....


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

It doesn't sound like very positive training methods. I am hoping to learn how to teach Daisy to walk to heel when we start at training classes but I would never use a lead/collar like that. I have also been reccomended to use sprays and squirting water things with Daisy's howling and whining but to me it doesn't deal with the root of the problem just not to bark/whine when the dog experiences it. It has been described to me as say having a fear of spiders and then everytime you try and scream someone makes a scary sound. You are still scared of the spiders but now you have something else unpleasant to deal with. Does that make sense? A trainer suggested that I squirted Daisy with water when she howled or whined! , I decided that I didn't agree with that kind of method and wanted to teach Daisy that it was ok to be on her own and not add to her anxiety by adding an additional fear of getting wet! Sorry for rambling I am probably talking a load of nonsense but it makes some kind of sense to me!


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

Sezra said:


> It doesn't sound like very positive training methods. I am hoping to learn how to teach Daisy to walk to heel when we start at training classes but I would never use a lead/collar like that. I have also been reccomended to use sprays and squirting water things with Daisy's howling and whining but to me it doesn't deal with the root of the problem just not to bark/whine when the dog experiences it. It has been described to me as say having a fear of spiders and then everytime you try and scream someone makes a scary sound. You are still scared of the spiders but now you have something else unpleasant to deal with. Does that make sense? A trainer suggested that I squirted Daisy with water when she howled or whined! , I decided that I didn't agree with that kind of method and wanted to teach Daisy that it was ok to be on her own and not add to her anxiety by adding an additional fear of getting wet! Sorry for rambling I am probably talking a load of nonsense but it makes some kind of sense to me!


Beau was a nightmare with walking to heel but has definitely got better though our trainer said to stop, pull her lead slightly and then walk in the direction we had just come from... I walked the same bit of pavement (about 10 feet) for half an hour and then decided this was daft so she then said to just stop and say "no Beau heel" which I did and this worked and we at least got past the first 10 feet  Beau does bark for attention and again our trainer said to turn our backs on her for a minute or two so that she isn't getting the attention and this works for Beau (most of the time) too  The final thing our trainer said was that if Beau does cry we should carry on doing whatever we were doing and ignore her  this would be ok if I didn't have a very soft 17 year old who said "I am really sorry but I can't stand to hear her upset" and then picks Beau up and carries her off to another room for cuddles I now have a 17 year old daughter, a year old cat and a 6 month old Cockapoo walking all over me and I wouldn't change it for the world  X


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## Sezra (May 20, 2011)

Ali79 said:


> Beau was a nightmare with walking to heel but has definitely got better though our trainer said to stop, pull her lead slightly and then walk in the direction we had just come from... I walked the same bit of pavement (about 10 feet) for half an hour and then decided this was daft so she then said to just stop and say "no Beau heel" which I did and this worked and we at least got past the first 10 feet  Beau does bark for attention and again our trainer said to turn our backs on her for a minute or two so that she isn't getting the attention and this works for Beau (most of the time) too  The final thing our trainer said was that if Beau does cry we should carry on doing whatever we were doing and ignore her  this would be ok if I didn't have a very soft 17 year old who said "I am really sorry but I can't stand to hear her upset" and then picks Beau up and carries her off to another room for cuddles I now have a 17 year old daughter, a year old cat and a 6 month old Cockapoo walking all over me and I wouldn't change it for the world  X


That is really useful thank you! I will try that tomorrow.  The ignoring thing is really hard! Daisy's bark sometimes goes right through me and it takes a massive amount of will power to ignore it!  I do though and then wait until she is quiet to respond! Thank goodness for sausages though! Since discovering she likes those her training has improved brilliantly! 

I can sympathise with you being walked all over. My cat demands water in the bedroom and wont drink out of his bowl downstairs , I have left my bed to help Daisy, my eldest still hasn't learnt to tidy her room and yet still I feel sorry for her and help her! I guess that's what we are here for!  

I am seriously hoping that she sleeps well tonight as for the first time since moving downstairs I have had wine!  I am going to suffer tomorrow if I have a bad night!


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

Sezra said:


> That is really useful thank you! I will try that tomorrow.  The ignoring thing is really hard! Daisy's bark sometimes goes right through me and it takes a massive amount of will power to ignore it!  I do though and then wait until she is quiet to respond! Thank goodness for sausages though! Since discovering she likes those her training has improved brilliantly!
> 
> I can sympathise with you being walked all over. My cat demands water in the bedroom and wont drink out of his bowl downstairs , I have left my bed to help Daisy, my eldest still hasn't learnt to tidy her room and yet still I feel sorry for her and help her! I guess that's what we are here for!
> 
> I am seriously hoping that she sleeps well tonight as for the first time since moving downstairs I have had wine!  I am going to suffer tomorrow if I have a bad night!


Beau loves frankfurters too and will do anything for one  I know what you mean about the barking  Our cat now has to eat on my bedroom windowsill and wont eat anywhere else as she likes sitting there and watching the birds in the garden (we live in a bungalow) plus it stops Beau eating all her food anyway  17 year old and tidy room  will get back to you on that one  

I too have wine so cheers and heres to you have a good nights sleep  XX


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm afraid your dogs trainer dosen't sound a very good one, anyone can set themselves up as a trainer with no qualifications what so ever, often using a certain TV celeb's inhumane techniques.

This is a list of APDT qualified trainers

http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

doodlebug said:


> I'm afraid your dogs trainer dosen't sound a very good one, anyone can set themselves up as a trainer with no qualifications what so ever, often using a certain TV celeb's inhumane techniques.
> 
> This is a list of APDT qualified trainers
> 
> http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp


They are on the list on the link you sent!!!!!!


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## doodlebug (Jul 16, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> They are on the list on the link you sent!!!!!!


OK dont shout lol

If i were you i would report them then http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/GUIDELINESCOMPLAINTS17-3-11.pdf


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

Colin you'll be able to get Betty to walk loosely without one of these.... just reward her when she looks at you, you get her attention, keep that attention as you walk and reward her periodically as you walk.... did you do work regarding what was a motivator/high level reward for Betty, something that she will want to work for x


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## Bini (Jul 4, 2011)

I have to agree and find it odd for the puppy trainer to try to sell these kind of leads and " air in the can" on the very first puppy class. Our puppy is using the reward based training and gives us plenty of examples why punishment doesn't work only weakens the relationship between dog and owner. Have another think, good luck


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Yes, i thought so too which is why i was asking for advice.
Doodlebug - was just not shouting at all - i was exclaiming my surprise that they were on the list!!
I AM grateful for all feedback - jut a new puppy owner trying to learn


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Colin you'll be able to get Betty to walk loosely without one of these.... just reward her when she looks at you, you get her attention, keep that attention as you walk and reward her periodically as you walk.... did you do work regarding what was a motivator/high level reward for Betty, something that she will want to work for x


Hi Karen

Don't get me wrong, there was also a lot of reward based training going on - which is what I expected from all the advice on forum. I was just a bit suprised
to see these leads ( had read lots of bad things about choke chains etc..)
so thought I would ask for advice. Seems like I am getting in myself misunderstood a lot on this forum at the moment... perhaps need to phrase things better...
Thanks for you advice anyway


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## Dolly Parton (Jun 6, 2011)

MillieDog said:


> Hi Dolly
> I notice you are from Herts. Do you know The Family Dog I'm Redbourne? They train with the same ethos as you feel? They're my trainers.


Hello! I haven't heard of them, but they sound like my kind of trainers  I have a friend who studies dog behaviour and is a trainer as well. I would never use this method on my dog, it doesn't get to the route of the problem. Puppies can easily be taught how to behave correctly using positive reinforcement, it just takes more time and effort from the owner. When I first started training I used a lady who was rubbish and suggested yanking back when Dolly pulled on the lead. Not great advise in my opinion! She also charged a fortune to tell me that. In my opinion there are a lot of people out there claiming to be dog trainers, but really they know nothing about dogs and are just in it for the money.... Rant over


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> Yes, i thought so too which is why i was asking for advice.
> Doodlebug - was just not shouting at all - i was exclaiming my surprise that they were on the list!!
> I AM grateful for all feedback - jut a new puppy owner trying to learn


Dont worry about asking questions thats what everyone is here for to share any bit of knowledge they have.

Did everyone in your puppy training class buy one of these collars? We just use our puppies collar and lead when training and then when we are out and about we use the harness so he knows whenever he is on the collar this is training time.

I would just use which ever you feel best for your puppy if he's not forceing everyone in the class to have one for training.dx


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

DONNA said:


> Dont worry about asking questions thats what everyone is here for to share any bit of knowledge they have.
> 
> Did everyone in your puppy training class buy one of these collars? We just use our puppies collar and lead when training and then when we are out and about we use the harness so he knows whenever he is on the collar this is training time.
> 
> I would just use which ever you feel best for your puppy if he's not forceing everyone in the class to have one for training.dx


Hi Donna
He was just recomending them and several people in the class had them from him for previous dogs ( he has been doing it for 25 years)...perhaps is techniques are a bit out of date.. Anyway from the advice rec'd I wont be bothering with one!
Hope all going well with you and Buddy?


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## DONNA (Jan 7, 2011)

Buddys well thanks ,must say its hard work though ,but its just like having kids in public hes a dream and everyone thinks what an angel,at home he can be a little devil ha ha


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

How right you are - went to the beach today and could not get anywhere cos
everyone wanted to 'love' Betty. Of course she put on her best 'butter wouldn't melt face' I knew she would be hard work but not sure I knew just quite
how hard Still love her to bits tho.


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## wilfiboy (Sep 18, 2010)

colpa110 said:


> Hi Karen
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there was also a lot of reward based training going on - which is what I expected from all the advice on forum. I was just a bit suprised
> to see these leads ( had read lots of bad things about choke chains etc..)
> ...


Oh Colin ... it must be that case of the typed word !!! I feel like your post was fine and just worry how mine came across I just did nt want you to waste your money and was just trying to say that i thought you'd do a great job without one


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

wilfiboy said:


> Oh Colin ... it must be that case of the typed word !!! I feel like your post was fine and just worry how mine came across I just did nt want you to waste your money and was just trying to say that i thought you'd do a great job without one


Hi Karen
Thanks, your post was fine ,honest. I have felt a little bit 'judged' at times on here tho when simply asking for advice( not by u)...perhaps I'm too sensitive or just not used to forums as this is the first one I have ever been on! It does put me off a bit asking anything else tho.


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## Ali79 (Mar 30, 2011)

colpa110 said:


> Hi Karen
> Thanks, your post was fine ,honest. I have felt a little bit 'judged' at times on here tho when simply asking for advice( not by u)...perhaps I'm too sensitive or just not used to forums as this is the first one I have ever been on! It does put me off a bit asking anything else tho.



Hi Colin - please don't let it put you off asking anything as the majority on this forum are excellent at helping out as I have found since my thread about Beau being spayed! I have had more support these people than any friends I have which speaks volumes. I sometimes think the written word can be taken in the wrong context as there is no emotion on the face or in the voice and you will always get people in all walks of life who think they know best especially if they don't have to actually face the person to whom they are expressing their opinion! I don't think you are too sensitive but probably have felt a bit under attack when asking a simple question! Just pick out the bits of advice that you like or is relevant to you and ignore the rest which is probably what most do on here anyway! Good luck with the training


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## colpa110 (Jul 5, 2011)

Ali79 said:


> Hi Colin - please don't let it put you off asking anything as the majority on this forum are excellent at helping out as I have found since my thread about Beau being spayed! I have had more support these people than any friends I have which speaks volumes. I sometimes think the written word can be taken in the wrong context as there is no emotion on the face or in the voice and you will always get people in all walks of life who think they know best especially if they don't have to actually face the person to whom they are expressing their opinion! I don't think you are too sensitive but probably have felt a bit under attack when asking a simple question! Just pick out the bits of advice that you like or is relevant to you and ignore the rest which is probably what most do on here anyway! Good luck with the training


Hi Ali, thanks you are right. I was overwhelmed by the support after bettys attack. There are truly some very kind and helpful people on here that have guided me through the path of puppyhood!!


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## ali-s.j. (Jun 6, 2011)

Our trainer told us to bring lots of treats, and puppies to wear ordinary collars


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