biting

[alfiedoo]

Hi all
Alfie is just over 6 months and a great puppy. The only problem we seem to have with him is when we try and put a harness on him or towel dry him. He becomes aggressive and bites us. I mentioned it to the vet and she said he was just trying to be dominant over us and we should calmly tell him off and only give him a treat if he behaves and doesn't bite. I had tried distracting him with a treat whilst drying him. am I making it worse? Any advise please!!

[kendal]

how is he when you brush him. has he been like this from a puppy. i would sit in the living room get him to sit and put the harnes over his head and gve him a treat then take it off, then put it back on and give him a treat. do that several times. then when you think he is happy with that move on to trying to put it on properly.

what is he like if you were to rub him the way you do with the towel after a walk but with out the towel

[alfiedoo]

Hi Kendal

Thanks for your reply! I will try what you suggested with the harness. I haven't tried to rub him without the towel. He's not very keen on his paws or legs being touched. He's never liked to be dried since we got him but it seems to be getting worse and more aggressive which is worrying me. Apart from this problem he is a perfect calm loving puppy.

[alfiedoo]

Sorry Kendal forgot to mention he's ok when I groom him with a brush if he's distracted with a treat!

[kendal]

for his paws, if he is up sleeping next to you sit and play with his feet. teach him paw with all feet but hold it for a wee bit longer each time as he get more keen to give it you you.

start rubbing him the way you would with a towel if he doesnt react lotsa of prase, then use a small face cloth in you hand when doing the same. he needs to see it as a good thing. keep moving up to bigger towels if possible.

he needs to learn to let you touch his feet, or you may have problems with thorns in his feet, or problems with his nails.

feet and face are always the arias that are the worst and it makes life dificalt for groomers and stresses the dog out.

just work on making touching him a pleasent thing, as you will eventualy find nots on his feet that he wont like you brushing out. tri and keep a toy or something so at the end of each sesion of training(it can be as short as an add brake between your fave TV show) you can toss the toy or play a wee bit of tug with him as a reward.

[alfiedoo]

thanks kendal I will try what you advise! The vet seemed to think it was more of an adolescent dominance problem but I'm not convinced!

[kendal]

thanks kendal I will try what you advise! The vet seemed to think it was more of an adolescent dominance problem but I'm not convinced!

it is, he is testing you. he knows that if he bites you back away. its something that is harder to sort the older he gets, so best nipping it in the bud now.

the thing with dog is they learn to work us faster than we learn to work them.

[alfiedoo]

so how should i react when he does bite me if I'm trying to use a towel, put the harness on etc until I can nip this behaviour in the bud?

[embee]

so how should i react when he does bite me if I'm trying to use a towel, put the harness on etc until I can nip this behaviour in the bud?

Are you sure he is being aggressive and biting not just growling and mouthing/play biting. When Flo was younger she would sometimes growl and get hold of things in her mouth (lead, towel, etc) quite aggressively but it wasn't aggression, just a young dog doing doggy developmental stuff which they would do with litter mates and other dogs. The best thing to do would be to have a 1:1 assessment then additional sessions with a good trainer, who will be able to watch Alfie then advise. Make sure, if you do use someone, they use reward based methods and not punishment which could just make things worse. Maybe also read up on dog behaviour as well, the more you know about why dogs do what they do the better. Try 'The Other End of the Leash' Patricia B. McConnell - a good read with lots of examples. Dog behaviour is a complex thing and it's so easy to mis-interprete dog behaviour and label them as dominant/aggressive/submissive etc when they are not.

When Flo used to try and mouth/bite my hands when I was putting on a collar, drying her etc I would just gently hold her muzzle in my hand, mouth gently closed and say 'ahhhhh no', tell her to sit to change her behaviour to what I wanted then treat her or stroke her down the back and say good girl when she stopped. It you react loudly, roughly or suddenly you excite them more.

[alfiedoo]

thanks for the advice! You are so right dog behaviour is very complex! Sometimes I feel like i'll never get it. I have read a few books but not the one you mentioned! I will try and break the habit by rewarding him when he doesn't react and see how we go. apart from this problem we couldn't be more happy with Alfie and are so pleased we chose a cockapoo as a breed!

[embee]

thanks for the advice! You are so right dog behaviour is very complex! Sometimes I feel like i'll never get it. I have read a few books but not the one you mentioned! I will try and break the habit by rewarding him when he doesn't react and see how we go. apart from this problem we couldn't be more happy with Alfie and are so pleased we chose a cockapoo as a breed!

I had never had a dog until Flo and when she was just a few months old she would growl, bark, mouth etc and at first I thought she was being dominant and aggressive. It took a lot of reading and research until I figured it all out and realised it was just a puppy learning, developing and trying to figure out what to do in her 'human' pack. At 14 months old she is the most gentle natured girl who follows me everywhere and tries so hard to work out what us strange humans want. 'Other End of the Leash' is fascinating and it's a great credit to dogs that they assimilate so well into their human family once you know more about their body language, signals and responses that are often opposite to what we do and how we react.

Try gentle slow rubbing with the towel along his back to start with (which they find soothing and quiet them down mostly) quick, energetic drying will get him excited and maybe he's play growling and tugging the towel just like he might do if you were playing with a tug toy, especially if you start trying to pull it off him.

[alfiedoo]

thats reassuring to know how flo turned out! Alfie is our 1st dog too and we are learning as we go. I will definately get the book you recommended. I will try gradually introducing the towel gently and see if that helps. I have sat tonight and slowly managed to get the harness over both paws without Alfie biting and rewarded him with chicken so will keep that up and hopefully see an improvement. Thanks again for the advice and i'll keep you posted to how I get on!

[embee]

I have a great trainer for Flo and she has this article on her site with advice about nipping, growling etc that might be useful for you.

http://www.dogbasics.co.uk/articles/puppynipping.html

[James Q]

Hi everyone. What else should we be doing when Brontie nips, and quite hard sometimes. We always say NO Bite, and turn away, but she doesn't seem to take any notice and just moves off to do whatever else catches her attention. So far, she doesn't seem to associate what we say and do with what's just happened! She's 10 weeks old. What are we doing wrong? (Kate, James' mum)

[kendal]

Hi everyone. What else should we be doing when Brontie nips, and quite hard sometimes. We always say NO Bite, and turn away, but she doesn't seem to take any notice and just moves off to do whatever else catches her attention. So far, she doesn't seem to associate what we say and do with what's just happened! She's 10 weeks old. What are we doing wrong? (Kate, James' mum)

if she isnt understanding the word, use something els, "no bite" is just a noise now, she doesn't associate it with anything, try screaming or yelping loudly something that will give her a fright (not to terrify her you just want her to jump and think what was that) try getting her to sit or something after it and pet her and tell her good girl, teach her a good behavior rather that the bighting. she gets a fright when she bites but if she is good and sits she gets a good girl pat.

[James Q]

Thanks Kendal, we'll try that. Different subject, we've started changing her food over to James Wellbeloved but her stools are quite loose (3 days ago). Is this just temporary do you think, while she adjusts, or might it mean that this isn't a good food for her? How long should we give the new food before we decide its not a good choice? Kate

[alfiedoo]

Hi Kate

Just read your last post. We started Alfie on James well beloved when he was about 9 weeks too and found for 1st couple of days he had loose stools. We mixed it with the original food the breeder had weaned him on gradually increasing it so as to not upset his stomach too much. Within the week his stools were nice and solid and we haven't had any problems since. We were advised its a good high quality food so stick with it and hopefully things will settle down!

[James Q]

Thanks Leone, we'll persevere as we've also read its a good food too. The one she came with from the breeder was Chicken Beta/Purina which we've since read is not a very good choice and she didnt seem to like it very much anyway! Just discovered that softening her biscuits up for her in her Kong with a bit of hot water really gets her to enjoy them too.

[wilfiboy]

Give her a chicken wing .. she'll love them and this will harden the stool cos of bone, raw not cooked as the bone is then brittle, I hold the end of one with a piece of kitchen roll as Mabel chews it ... to stop her bolting it down and allowing her to chew it x

[James Q]

OK, will try that thanks. Just bought some lambs liver but is Brontie too young for this yet, at 10 weeks? I've just fried in then cut it up into tiny pieces and was going to use it with training. Or just freeze it until she's older??

[James Q]

Karen, how old was Mabel before her first chicken bone? Thanks, Kate

[kendal]

both Delta and Echo were 8 weeks old when they got their firsat one, they got them frozen my lot seem to enjoy their meet like that
http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/cockapoogirl/Delta/IMG_3019.jpg

[wilfiboy]

She's 16 weeks now and she 's been having them for weeks ... she loves them but i buy them fresh then freeze them and defrost on a daily basis. I hold them like I said cos she s so greedy she'd just swallow it !!! I hold the tip end with a piece of kitchen roll, just so that you can grip it. She'd probably manage it on her own like Delta if it was frozen... sounds cccccold though...although like I said she's that greedy I dont think she'd mind. Give them a try x

[kendal]

for puppys its nice on the gums. its also nice for them on a hot day.

[j maree]

I do not want to admit this but Chloe has bitten me. Hard. Never been bit by a dog before. I almost fainted. She drew blood with a puncture wound. This happened last Sunday...........Owning a Pit, well this is hard to admit I made a mistake. Don't they say," No bad dogs just bad owners. First of all I wanted her to assert herself with Meffy. Wrong! So when she growled at him I let it go. Well, she downright attacked him. I had to pull her off, Meffy's neck swelled. She came back at me in her frenzy. I can't believe the power in her! Did he react? No, he waited for me to take care of it. Good thing or I would have a dead cockapoo. I howled all day and let her see and smell the puncture. Meffy knew and he followed me all day. So, how do I undo this mistake I have done with the pack? I'm guessing I have let her be pack leader cause she is so little and cute. Help looking for ideas.

[kendal]

what startted it, was it a toy or food ? did she turn on you as soon as you pulled her away or was their a paws and then she went for your.

apart for Delta i have found that every time a new pup comes into the hose the new pup take the dom role. i would say treat her the same way your treated your pit when you were training him.

Echo is a bugger, she has fights with Inca sometimes over nothing, but the funny thing is she is always on the floor withInca ontop. if i have to seperate them i need to grab Echo because is i took Inca Echo would just falow and keep tring to fight, where as Inca doesnt. this is how i know it is Echo who starts the fight.

how old is she again.

you should be very proude of Meffy(love the name, does it mean something?) as he acepted your role and that you would sort out Chloe, alot of hard work must have gone into him.

[j maree]

Kendel
Glad to hear others have the same issues. Chloe will be 1 year Feb. 1. She has been with me since last June. Meffy is 15 years old. Chloe was not allowed to puppy play with him unattended because of his age and I noticed she took advantage of him.
The fight was over food! I was eating and Chloe was at my feet and Meffy came beside me and she went for him. Chloe bit me when I had my hand at Meffy's neck pushing him one way and pulling her another. She lost her grip and went for the neck again and my hand was somewhere there!! So fast !! She was so mad is what scares me.
Meffy's name ??? You know how sometimes you see something going on but you don't get involved? Well, I got involved with a street corner and a guy ruffing up a pup who's name was Meth I was told. All said and done I wasn't leaving till I got that dog away from the drug addict. I tried to find that dog a home, but it didn't work out that way. I didn't know it would be so hard. I changed his name to Meffy and life went on.

[kendal]

she was garding your food, i would not let her sit anywhere near you. give her a chew or something and sent her to the door mat or in her bed or simply in a corner somewhere. but nowhere near you. Delta is a bit like that with our cat she will have a snap if the cat is getting to close to food that she wants where i am making it for her or not.

from what i have red about the bite your cant was in the wrong place, she was aiming fpr poor Meffy. not condoning it but i dont think it was deliberet that you got hurt.

i would recomed your teach her tolerance, feed Meffy first, give him a treat first, at toy first a chew first. make her sit and wait till he is finneshed or till you think seh is relaxed or behaving herself. keep her on a lead if you dont trust her. that way she cant do anything you dont want.

because of Echo's problems with Inca, it used to be if Inca even walked past a bone or toy Echo thaught was hers or didnt want her to have even though Echos wasnt playing with or chewing it, she would lonch herself at Inca, so if i braught out a bone i would make Echo sit and watch and know that I was choising to give MY bone to Inca, and did the same when we got Delta, it has worked so well withg Delta that i can get bothe Echo and Delta eating the same bone at the same time.

because of Meffys placid nature i would encorige her to see him as the leades (but your 2nd in comand as you are the utimet leader in the house)


another thing you can do is po a lead on her and set up a similer situation where you think with set of the same reaction. this way you know its coming and you already have the upper hand. if she tries to attac him again give her a sharp tug on the lean and tell her no or leave os something that she will; learn means to stop what she is doing.

please do take this the wrong way, i think you have just let yourself slip into a faulse sense of sicurity because she is a small fluffy breed compaired to your big strong boy who you know needed a firm hand. i think you may need to think of her as a bigger dog than she is, if you get what im saying. but i have no doubt that you will get it sorted. and i think Meffy will help with his calm nature.

good luck let us know how you get on.

[wilfiboy]

Sounds like great advice I think you'll sort it J Maree . Great story about Meffy...lucky for him you came along x

[j maree]

Very good info Kendel. I think I will try your advice. I do not take offense to what you said. I like to hear what others have to say. Sometimes we are so close to what is going on we just can't see it. I must be letting Chloe have the little dog who thinks she's a big dog. All the power cause she is cute.
Thanks

[j maree]

This is important!! IT"S KENDAL ! Not Kendel. Sorry................

[parapluie]

J Maree, don't ever be embarrassed here! There are so many different levels of experience on this board, and even the experienced ones were new at it sometime! I'm sure things like this have happened a lot.
I have heard a lot about misjudging smaller dogs and coddling them a bit because they're so small and cute, which in turns lets them get away with murder! I think that you will have a lot of luck doing the things Kendal suggested and just reaffirming that you are the pack leader and she has to fall in line in order for her to get what she wants. What a great pit bull you have as well. Great job training him!

[j maree]

Yes, I guess it doesn't matter how long we have been around dogs there is always something new to learn.

I will never get it exactly right cause I am human and dogs are dogs. Boy what a mix. I mostly go by reading how they move and act.

Thanks for your comment

[wilfiboy]

loved both the above comments ... made me feel warm and smiley :hug:

[parapluie]

loved both the above comments ... made me feel warm and smiley :hug:

:laugh: Karen, you crack me up!