Barking problems

[Holly2010]

Hi
My Holly always gets very anxious when we are around other dogs it is a nightmare at the park she just keeps barking at everything, she isn't aggressive but she just gets very angry, also some people she barks at especially men!! any advice on how to try and get her to stop doing this, I have tried to distract her with treats but it doesn't really work as I have problems getting her attention as soon as she see's another dog, I must say once she knows them she is fine with them as she has lots of friends

xxxx

[Mogdog]

It sounds like barking because she's afraid (of unfamiliar dogs and men). Maisie was very fearful as a pup but is now fine with other dogs ... she remains v timid with unknown people especially men. I don't really know what to do about this so will be interested in the replies.

A water spray can been good for senseless barking (once or twice is usually sufficient then they stop when they see you produce it). But it seems mean to do that when they are barking through fear.

[holicon]

Coco is the same, he is 9 months old now but he will bark at people and dogs when we are out because he is afraid and timid, but if anyone comes in the house he is all over them. Sorry i haven't helped because I haven't been able to sort it out with Coco so hopefully someone will be able to help.

[caradunne]

I have just solved this problem with Izzy after months and months of trying different approaches. I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement training for dogs and kids, always reward good behaviour and set them up with situations that they can succeed at - catch them doing the right thing, not reprimand for doing the wrong thing - works particularly well with boys! So my solution is quite alien to that approach. I tried endless reward situations and Izzy would be so involved with her own barking that I couldn't penetrate it. I would use treats to distract her, but she always spotted the other dog. My clicker trainer told me to buy 'Corrector spray'. It is unbelievably effective. I have only had to spray it by her (not at her) twice. Now I only need to hold the canister, as soon as she pulls (this precedes the bark) I show her the canister and she immediately goes to heel again. I then treat her for the correct behaviour. There is also a row of terraced cottages with low front windowsills, several of them have cats sitting on them. It was impossible to walk past without Izzy leaping up to inspect each sill and barking furiously in anticipation of cats. She now demurely walks past looking up at me knowing she is behaving well and waiting for her treat. I have also used the spray to stop her barking at the fish in our pond. So fantastic success for about £6 from Pets at Home.

[caradunne]

Coco is the same, he is 9 months old now but he will bark at people and dogs when we are out because he is afraid and timid, but if anyone comes in the house he is all over them. Sorry i haven't helped because I haven't been able to sort it out with Coco so hopefully someone will be able to help.

I always believed Izzy did it because she was afraid and I spent a fortune on socialisation and always excused her behaviour. I think she was afraid and the approach becomes an entrenched behaviour but she has proved she can learn to behave and certainly doesn't seem afraid any more. It is amazing as she is eating better and seems more confident. She is older so that may have a bearing on it.

[EG1]

I have just solved this problem with Izzy after months and months of trying different approaches. I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement training for dogs and kids, always reward good behaviour and set them up with situations that they can succeed at - catch them doing the right thing, not reprimand for doing the wrong thing - works particularly well with boys! So my solution is quite alien to that approach. I tried endless reward situations and Izzy would be so involved with her own barking that I couldn't penetrate it. I would use treats to distract her, but she always spotted the other dog. My clicker trainer told me to buy 'Corrector spray'. It is unbelievably effective. I have only had to spray it by her (not at her) twice. Now I only need to hold the canister, as soon as she pulls (this precedes the bark) I show her the canister and she immediately goes to heel again. I then treat her for the correct behaviour. There is also a row of terraced cottages with low front windowsills, several of them have cats sitting on them. It was impossible to walk past without Izzy leaping up to inspect each sill and barking furiously in anticipation of cats. She now demurely walks past looking up at me knowing she is behaving well and waiting for her treat. I have also used the spray to stop her barking at the fish in our pond. So fantastic success for about £6 from Pets at Home.
Interesting that you had good results with the spray,Cara. I bought one to use with Alfie, who's a demon barker, but when I mentioned it at Agility was made to feel it was the work of the devil. Think I might give it a go since we we're on the brink of being expelled from Agility anyway for mega naughty barking. Rupert doesn't show any signs of being a barker but I'm worried he might pick it up. Two barkers would be a nightmare... :eek:

[kendal]

do you have her at training classes. classes are grate for getting them used to people and other dogs in close proximity.

[caradunne]

Interesting that you had good results with the spray,Cara. I bought one to use with Alfie, who's a demon barker, but when I mentioned it at Agility was made to feel it was the work of the devil. Think I might give it a go since we we're on the brink of being expelled from Agility anyway for mega naughty barking. Rupert doesn't show any signs of being a barker but I'm worried he might pick it up. Two barkers would be a nightmare... :eek:

I know I had the can for about two months before I finally used it, it goes against everything I believed in - but it worked! She really doesn't like it, so it is training by threat, but there is no hurt for the dog and she certainly seems more confident and is very pleased with herself for behaving. Sometimes she evenstops walking, sits and looks up at me as she knows she has done it well and deserves her treat.

[Mogdog]

Cara, what is in the can of 'Corrector Spray'? Is it something smelly? I certainly like the idea of rewarding the good behaviour.

Sue x

[embee]

Interesting that you had good results with the spray,Cara. I bought one to use with Alfie, who's a demon barker, but when I mentioned it at Agility was made to feel it was the work of the devil. Think I might give it a go since we we're on the brink of being expelled from Agility anyway for mega naughty barking. Rupert doesn't show any signs of being a barker but I'm worried he might pick it up. Two barkers would be a nightmare... :eek:

If he gets 'expelled' from agility maybe give flyball a go where excitement and barking are probably the norm - the flyball club I go to is even called Loudbarking Flyball Club :D:D:D

[EG1]

If he gets 'expelled' from agility maybe give flyball a go where excitement and barking are probably the norm - the flyball club I go to is even called Loudbarking Flyball Club :D:D:D

That sounds like just the place for Alf! Perhaps I'll see if there's any local Flyball. On the plus side I tried the Pet Corrector this morning. As we were stepping out of the front door a couple of dogs went past and he went nuts - so did a quick squirt and it worked! He even walked to heel along the lane and didn't attempt to join in with any barking dogs on the other side of hedges like he normally does. Lots of treats etc to reinforce his amazing behaviour. Hope this is a breakthrough. Not that I can use it at agility - I'll just have to flash a sneaky pic of the can at him. ;)

[ali-s.j.]

Could you have a word you use at the same time as spraying and treating, so that Alf learns to associate it with not barking?

[caradunne]

I say 'Izzy quiet'. I am so glad it worked. I have to confess that I have secreted the canister up my sleeve at times so that other walkers can't see it, then if necessary Izzy gets a quick view as a reminder if she pulls towards another dog! I don't know why I feel so ashamed of using this product as the tried and tested dog corrector in rural Devon is a quick kick!!!!

[caradunne]

Cara, what is in the can of 'Corrector Spray'? Is it something smelly? I certainly like the idea of rewarding the good behaviour.

Sue x

Hi Sue
Nothing in it, just a shhhhhhhhhh of air, but quite forceful, hence spray by not at the dog. xx

[Mogdog]

Thanks Cara, I may get some if things get too noisy here! Maisie has improved since we got rid of the guinea pigs (to the front garden!) but she still barks at noises from outside, etc. So far Bess hasn't copied, she's a more chilled character! :) Sue x

[2ndhandgal]

Unfortunately using punishment - and the corrector spray is punishment can have poor consequences - especially if your dog is acting that way through fear.

Imagine the situation of being scared of spiders and screaming when you see one. If someone then squirts spray in your face when you see one it may stop you screaming but will do nothing to address the fear and may well mean one day you will totally flip out and go further than screaming.

Transfered to dogs if they are uncomfortable and barking at other dogs and you use punishment to stop that you run the risk they may feel the need to escalate and may increase the level of aggression.

It is far better to work with your dog with the level it is comfortable with, either individually or maybe consult an APDT trainer who should be able to help.

[Mogdog]

Unfortunately using punishment - and the corrector spray is punishment can have poor consequences - especially if your dog is acting that way through fear.

Yes, I agree with this. My dog's barking isn't excessive so doesn't warrant a specialised trainer. Always good, though, to hear of anything others have found successful.

[DONNA]

Are you sure shes barking because she anxious?? sometimes Buddy barks at other dogs as if to say "hey im over here come say hello" ,as soon as i take him to greet the other dog he says hello then dosnt bark any more.
Even if she is anxious you could still take her over to greet other dogs etc this may make her less anxious about the situation,also id get as many men friends over that shes never met and get them to meet her and give her treats so she can see their friendly,or you could give the people shes barking at (while your out)treats to give her so reinforcing the fact that men etc are nice.??

[Dylansmum]

Are you sure shes barking because she anxious?? sometimes Buddy barks at other dogs as if to say "hey im over here come say hello" ,as soon as i take him to greet the other dog he says hello then dosnt bark any more.


Yes, there are lots of reasons for barking that may not be anxiety. Dylan is unbelievably vocal, but it's not anxiety at all - most often it's excitement. He barks at other dogs as a greeting; he barks or howls in triumph when he has a ball or a stick and to ask us to throw it; he barks for attention and he barks or howls for sheer joy when we are playing with him! In fact anything at all is an excuse for him to bark or howl :rolleyes: Sometimes I think I would like to quieten him down, but it's so much a part of his personality that I would feel like I was diminishing his joi de vivre!

[EG1]

Certainly Alf's barking at agility is massive joi de vivre - but it was beginning to spread to other situations whenever he meets another dog. And he's on the verge of being thrown out of agility. So latest plan is homeopathy. Went to see homeopathic vet and he did an hour long consultation putting together an Alf personality profile - and came to the conclusion that he's a bit of a case! Homeopathic remedy duly arrived in the post the other day. Now, call it coincidence but we took him to a NT place this morning with lots of other dogs and he didn't make a sound! Not a single woof! Of course it could be a placebo effect, but I haven't told him I'm secreting the remedy in his treats...

[ali-s.j.]

I'm a big homeopathy fan, I also use Rescue Remedy (Bach Flower Remedies) to help with anxiety (used loads during the play last week!)

[EG1]

I'm a big homeopathy fan, I also use Rescue Remedy (Bach Flower Remedies) to help with anxiety (used loads during the play last week!)

Yep, my day job is teaching comp. therapies so I'm also a fan. A bit surprised how quickly this has worked though. So interesting to meet a homeopathic vet, not many of them about! Alf's had acupuncture as well when he gave up drinking water after he was castrated. :confused:

[Dylansmum]

Will follow his progress with interest. Keep us up to date on how it goes.

[Holly2010]

Thank you for all your replies, the spray sound interesting!! I may have a look into that, we have tried classes but I recently moved so I need to find a new class to go to, also I live in an area that seems to have loads of cats!! and I walk Holly first thing in the morning and trying to keep her quiet is very difficult :)
she is so full of beans and loves being round dogs she knows but if a dog walks past her she will go bonkers, most other dog walkers are fine but i have had a few which have got very funny with me thing my cockapoo is vicious!! were do you get the spray from do pet shops sell them?
thanks again x

[Holly2010]

Thanks for the advice, it can be different everytime we go out, she is never agressive just very barky and growls, she also has her tail wagging, I have taken her over to meet the dogs and she does calm down but then you move to the next one and she is just the same, or sometimes she wont bark at all and be fine, if she is off the lead she has run off scared of dogs especially if they have been over friendly with her, a tiny jack russell came running up to her in the park and she legged it back to the car i ended up chasing her all the way as it was a busy road!! I worry she will run off and get hurt, the Homeopathic remedy sounds like an idea, i'll do some research into ones in my area,
thanks karen

[DONNA]

When we were out we met another cockapoo who was wearing a sort of t-shirt anyway the lady said if she didnt wear it she would be barking all the time ,im sure ive seen some on the aquafleece website their for anxious dogs??? Might be worth a try this women said it was amazing.
I would also still try to go somewhere safe where she could go off lead with prehaps a few of your friends dogs and with lots of praise and treats etc it would help too.

[2ndhandgal]

Thanks for the advice, it can be different everytime we go out, she is never agressive just very barky and growls, she also has her tail wagging, I have taken her over to meet the dogs and she does calm down but then you move to the next one and she is just the same, or sometimes she wont bark at all and be fine, if she is off the lead she has run off scared of dogs especially if they have been over friendly with her, a tiny jack russell came running up to her in the park and she legged it back to the car i ended up chasing her all the way as it was a busy road!! I worry she will run off and get hurt, the Homeopathic remedy sounds like an idea, i'll do some research into ones in my area,
thanks karen
In that case it does sound like she has fear at the root of her barking so please don't use the spray or any form of punishment as whilst it may stop the barking it will do nothing to address the root cause.

What you can do is reward her with lots of yummy treats when she sees another dog and does not bark - initially you may need to be a long way from the other dog but as she grows in confidence you can gradually move closer and she will learn that being around other dogs is a good thing.

The t-shirt idea is something from t-touch which can also have great results with less confident dogs.

[Holly2010]

Hi All

She seems to have different levels of barking, when I am walking from my house to the park so along the road she seems more anxious and gets quite angry with other dogs, i have tried to take her over to the other dogs to say hello but she gets worse, I do take treats with me but as soon as she starts its hard to get her attention, then when we are in the park and she is off the lead she is barking more through excitment, but she will bark loads then when the other dogs comes overs to say hello she runs back to me or off in another direction :), is it because she is still young and can't read the other dogs?? do you think she may grow out of it?? she has a dog walker who comes in twice a day and she takes her out with her 4 dogs so she is use to dogs loads and she is fine with my friends dogs, I am going to try the t-shirt,
xxx

[romeo]

holly what mix of cockapoo is she ?

[Happyad]

Pet corrector.
The trick is not to spray in the face but think of it as something which breaks their focus.
It's definitely not a punishment device and there are other methods of diversion. Stones in a plastic bottle.

The problem with these items is the appropriate use. Fearful in nature dogs could be devastated by mis uses. Therefore either take advice from a trainer, read up, you tube videos whatever you need just to be most effective the first time u use it.

[2ndhandgal]

Maybe we are using different definitions of punishment? My definition is something the dog finds aversive and indeed the pet corrector, a rattle can of stones or a spray of water are aversive and that is the only reason they work. As you say the problem is with inappropriate use and I would say I have never seen a need for appropriate use especially with inexperienced owners.

They may appear to work as in many cases they will stop the barking or whatever behavious they are being used for but they do nothing to address the underlying emotion of the dog so at best are useless and at worst are dangerously damaging. Issues can be addressed slowly and patiently with positive reinforcement training at a pace the dog is happy with and will give long term fixes as they also address the reasons for the dogs behaviour.

As an example I have just taken Molly over the field and there was a traffic sign the local kids had dumped in the middle of the field. Molly was not sure of it and barked and growled at it. I am pretty sure a quick spray would have stopped her immediately - but it would have done nothing to alter her feelings apart from maybe making her even more worried by it next time we see it as she was already worried and was sprayed. Instead we both walked up to it with her free to choose the distance she wanted to be and we walked round it a few times until she relaxed. Once she was comfortable I even asked her to jump over it a couple of times as she is learning agility at the moment and very much enjoys jumping. If it is still there in the morning I am pretty sure she will not be remotely bothered by it now - although might want to repeat her jumping fun.

Apologies for such a long post - my "qualifications" as such are years of taking on adult rescue dogs, including an RSPCA cruelty case dog who went from being scared of and barking at absolutely everything to passing his Good citizen bronze and silver awards as well as being part of the club demonstration team for a few years where we went to local schools and fetes to give demonstrations. I have also helped at dog training classes for several years, ran a flyball club for a few years and obtained a distinction in the Compass Education Advanced Diploma in Canine Behaviour Management.

[Happyad]

Hi
And thats the thing it's all about using common sense.
In the instance of the sign in the field, the dog should be wary of something like this and let us know that it's not right. And thats the problem with the aversion devices, they could be used here, totally inappropriate.
However the intense barking, growling, throwing themselves at the door to chase a cat, I would think an aversion device could work here to get their attention so that a positive reward for quiet or more relaxed behaviour can be applied.

Training styles do vary and there are some different styles out there.
The key is that dogs should be comfortable and at the end of the day it's down to each owner. We can only advise and suggest methods for people to try.

[2ndhandgal]

Even in the case of a dog throwing itself against a door to chase a cat I would disagree about the use of an aversive. There is simply no need.

As a further Molly example - she came to me totally obsessed with bird chasing, on lead this meant she would scream at them and lunge at them looking like a totally crazed dog. I have gradually set her up to suceed by rewarding her when she has spotted a bird and remained calm (which in the early days meant is was at least half a field away) and she is gradually learning to focus on me instead of the birds. This morning she was a fair distance from me when she spotted a crow and fixated on it - it then flew off and she did one quick yap and bounce then came to sit in front of me to claim her reward. Not perfect but a huge improvement on her starting point and it is still a work in progress with her. She looked at a few other birds on the field as well this morning and came to me as soon as I called her instead of fixating on them.

[colpa110]

2ndhandgal

Really interested to read your posts and the different approaches people take. I'm having difficulty in stopping my 5 Month old dog to stop barking and chasing my cat - what approach would you recomend please?

[2ndhandgal]

2ndhandgal

Really interested to read your posts and the different approaches people take. I'm having difficulty in stopping my 5 Month old dog to stop barking and chasing my cat - what approach would you recomend please?

Thanks Colpa.

In your position I would be trying to manage all encounters between cat and puppy closely. The pup should be on a lead so they can't physically chase the cat and I would them use lots of tasty treats to focus the pups attention on me and reward calm non-chasing and non-barking behaviour.

Barking and chasing an exciting creature like a cat are both very rewarding to any dog so you need to prevent the pup carrying these out and teach what you do want instead. It will not necessarily be easy depending on how determined your pup is and you initially need to try and make sure the only encounters the two have are your calm careful ones where both parties are rewarded for calm behaviour.

If the pup is very excited by the cat you will need to find a distance to start with that they can still pay attention to you and then slowly and gently over lots of sessions get closer.

My approach is very simple, reward the good and try your hardest to prevent the behaviour you do not want so it is not practised. If the pup does get to chase the cat then as far as my training approach the one who has failed is the human who has failed to manage the system so no aversive or punishment necessary.

[colpa110]

Thanks Colpa.

In your position I would be trying to manage all encounters between cat and puppy closely. The pup should be on a lead so they can't physically chase the cat and I would them use lots of tasty treats to focus the pups attention on me and reward calm non-chasing and non-barking behaviour.

Barking and chasing an exciting creature like a cat are both very rewarding to any dog so you need to prevent the pup carrying these out and teach what you do want instead. It will not necessarily be easy depending on how determined your pup is and you initially need to try and make sure the only encounters the two have are your calm careful ones where both parties are rewarded for calm behaviour.

If the pup is very excited by the cat you will need to find a distance to start with that they can still pay attention to you and then slowly and gently over lots of sessions get closer.

My approach is very simple, reward the good and try your hardest to prevent the behaviour you do not want so it is not practised. If the pup does get to chase the cat then as far as my training approach the one who has failed is the human who has failed to manage the system so no aversive or punishment necessary.

Thanks for the reply..I'm pretty much doing as you suggest, will have to keep at it. Betty is a very exitable and determined little dog!

[2ndhandgal]

Thanks for the reply..I'm pretty much doing as you suggest, will have to keep at it. Betty is a very exitable and determined little dog!

Good luck - sounds like you are on the right lines and I hope you have a settled household soon.